Why go to Flight Safety?

[bramlett]

i need some hard evidence and advise on why i should or should not choose flight safety...also, my top three choices now are comair, flightsafety, and pheonix east respectively. which one is most thought of by the airlines? Where do i go and why?

[aviator]

I would tour all three before you make a decision. That might answer some of your questions. As far as a sales pitch I suggest a call to marketing.

If you have any specific questions there are quite a few current/former students and instructors on this board, fire away

[Doug Taylor]

Airlines really don't care where you go to flight school. My commercial license doesn't say "Embry Riddle", nor did they ask where I did my training at.

However, they're only interested in your experience.

[pscraig]

I advise some serious research. Read posts here on Jetcareers, and most of all visit all three in person. Those three schools are fairly close together, and could be seen in a couple of days. When you visit the schools and talk to the students, you will find the hard evidence you are looking for. Better yet, find out where the students hang out and go have a beer. I learned a lot doing that.

[Acadia]

Ditto on the last posts. I attended Flight Safety and thought it was fantastic, but that does not mean it is the best school for everyone else. I strongly agree that you need to visit each and every school you are looking at and as mentioned before talk to as many students as possible. Also when you start to compare costs you have to look very closely how the information is presented. Most of the big schools out there will spit out a pretty specific number for a particular course. You really have to get into to the details of what each schools program offers and what you are paying for it to get a good comparison. Ask lots of questions and decide what is best for you.

[drumminpilot]

Sup Bram? I went to Phoenix East back in April. My idea was to finish up my instrument, then go thru everything else (Comm/ME/CFI/Blah, Blah). It took nearly 4 months to the day to do my instrument. I already had the hour req. met, so that wasn't the issue. Barring issues with a lazy instructor (only being able to fly 3 times a week, max, and a few no shows on the instructor), the 172's were down for maintenence constantly. I was not able to fly from the 2nd week in June, until the end of the first week in July due to 172's being down. I was unable to switch to their Warriors until July due to a "paperwork issue" and having to figure out how to transfer on paper the hours I had paid for in a 172 to the rate for the Warriors. Anyhew, despite the maintenence issues, and flat out being lied to by admissions (a WHOLE 'nother story) I am not totally displeased in my training experience. They have good study areas, good computer lab to take practice writtens, and when the planes are up, they're not bad. I know a lot of people that instruct there, and a lot of students. If you want a laid back, Part 61 experience, it's for you. Be careful though, because the standardization of instructors is nil, so you never know what you'll get from your IP. It's not a bad school, but compared to FSI or Comair, it doesn't stand a chance.

[yankee_one]

As Doug said, The airlines dont care where you got your training. I guess that's somewhat true. Your License dosn't say where you got your lic. but I'm willing to bet, most airline applications will ask where you got your training. Both Comair and Flight Safety are good well known flight schools, and it will pay to tour both of them. Personally, I wouldnt waste time with Phoenix East. What it really boils down to is who's going to help you get the job. Pay carefull attention to what connections they have. Are the interviews just an interview or does it really lead to a job. An interview is one thing, but if that airline isn't hiring or only hiring a few pilots, it's not going to do you any good.

Good luck wherever you go!

[pscraig]

I'm going to FSI for many reasons, but none of the above. I'm going to acquire superior instrument skills, cockpit discipline, technical knowledge, and how to handle emergencies, spins, disorientation, etc. What I noticed is that most flight schools teach you how to handle a good situation, while Flightsafety devotes considerable time to teaching you how to handle a bad situation. How to properly analyze a line of storms, deal with disorientation or a spin, systems failure, etc-knowing this stuff might save my life someday.

[Doug Taylor]

Actually, no where on any airlines application that I'm familiar with has a blank to enter where you trained at.

Every school, big and small, has to meet that same FAA standard.

[Starsky]

Actually,

I just filled an application out for one of your feeder, Delta owned, airlines, and there was a space for where I trained.

I'm not saying that it mattered, but I know for a fact that I was granted an interview for my first CFI job because of where I trained.

I don't think going to a big school is some kind of career silver bullet, but it's obtuse to say it doesn't matter at all.

My suggestion is to find a place to train that provides the environment and, yes, potential connections, that you feel are right for you.

Good Luck

[Snow]

Yeah I agree that the same FAA standard applies, but that's kinda like saying, why get an A in english when you can just pass, because after all, a A is a passing grade too.

If the airlines don't care where you trained, that's fine, but personally I'd like to be the best pilot I can be, not just good enough to get by and pass the FAA checkride.

[Pilotmike35]

I toured Pan Am prior to chosing FSA. I was struck right away by the lack of enthusiam of the different instructors I spoke with there. Our guide was just going through the motions. The class rooms seemed to be cluttered and the Maintenance hanger was a mess also. I was more than ready to leave when the tour was over. I visited FSA an experianced quiet the opposite. Everyone seemed professional and seemed to take pride in the school. when I stopped them and asked questions they were more than willing to take a minute and talk. I was so convinced that this was the place that I was ready to start the next day. I stopped a Capt in the airport on my return flight home and asked what he thought about FSA. He had a very favorable opnion. So FSA's reputation is very well known I think. Great training, good reputation and satisified graduates sounds like this is the place to be.

[chunk75]

You never see instructors leave to go elsewhere. When they move on, it's *always* to something bigger and better. We always have bigwigs from different airlines/frax/corporate departments coming through to look at our program. They often hire a few guys on the spot as well.

I had the opportunity last week to talk with the Director of Ops for NetJets Intl. His seniority number is 48 (out of 4500 or so!) He gave me his business card. I don't have anywhere near the mins, but wow, what a networking opportunity!

A few weeks before that, we had a hiring captain, an FO, and a HR rep come visit from ASA. The captain had a meeting with everyone, talked about what line flying is like, what ASA is looking for, what she looks for when she interviews applicants. She then interviewed 10 the next day and offered jobs to 6 of them.

You simply cannot get these type of opportunities at mom & pop FBO (I love M&P fbo's btw) or many other "academy" type schools.

FSI is going to be all over my resume`. I am fully confident that will help me get noticed. Our school has a premiere rep because it offers outstanding training and holds us to high standards. Reputations aren't bought, they are earned. Employers know what it means to be FSI-trained.

All the "extras" (spin/upset recovery, spatial disorientation, CRM, incredible maintenance, a/c availability, BEING TREATED WITH RESPECT AND LIKE A CUSTOMER, incredibly experienced academic instructors, highly trained flight instructors that are STAN'd, great leadership and management, positive friendly atmosphere, corporate culture of professionalism, being owned by Berkshire Hathaway [Warren Buffet is a personal hero of mine], having the best VA representative *anywhere*, having great student advisors, having "The Hawk" around to make you laugh, etc etc etc etc) certainly do add up to a great place to learn and grow as a pilot. Accurate price quotes and student-friendly policies make you feel like an individual and not an account number.

So really, the question is, WHY NOT FlightSafety?

Chunk <---lucky enough to have one of the best instructors at THE best school. Yeah, I'm biased, but I have reason to be.

[CLR4ILS]

It really does matter where you have trained. A lot of my friends who have been recently hired with ACA, ASA, and Horizon have been asked where they trained. The quality of training should be your number one concern over all. Tour Com-Air and Flight Safety and I will see you soon at FSA. There is no comparison when it comes to the quality of training from Flight Safety. You really do need to tour them all. Flight Safety offers a program that no other school can match. We are the only school that offer an upset recovery program followed by spatial disorientation training. These are the things you want to look for in a school. Anybody can fly in perfect WX. Tell me this, can you handle an emergency while going missed in IMC? Flight Safety will train you for that. ILS

[Doug Taylor]

On the payroll there, Chunk?!

[CLR4ILS]

Actually I know chunk personally and I know he does not work for Flight Safety. Why do you ask? You know he is 100% on the money. ILS

[chunk75]

Doug knows that I've been on JC loooooonnnnngg before I started at FSI. I think he was referring to the "reason to be biased" bit at the end. At least, I think he was...


Chunk

[Michigan_Flyer]

I also know Chunk personally, and I agree 100% with the above comments.

[EDUC8-or]

I looked into Flight Safety until my jaw dropped after seeing the price tag. YANG! Without doing any math and from the top of my head, I think it was about twice as much as the FBO route.

I also didn't like the idea of staying in Florida and Georgia for long XC's. I flew up to Chicago for my long commerical XC. Plus, I'm a big fan of wearing my hawaiian shirts here in the summer. Nothing like throwing on some shorts and my favorite Hawaiian and heading up or down the coast. I can always notice the guys from FSI (students) in their uniforms sweating out on the ramp or chilling out in the restaurant on the field.

I spoke with a someone who is very high up at a big airline and he told me it's not where you go, it's who you know. A place like FSI cranks out good pilots to the airlines, so you're bound to have some great connections when it's time to start filling out those applications. Are youy going to meet lots of people who fly for the airlines while instucting at your local FBO? Probably not.

Before I get slammed, I thought I would let all FSI students know it was my first choice followed by a Master's at ERAU. I could only afford so much on a teachers salary so no could do.

[davetheflyer]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You never see instructors leave to go elsewhere. When they move on, it's *always* to something bigger and better.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because I always thought that if I could make a living instructing anywhere it would be at FSI. Guess what? I couldn't make a living instructing there either!

The reason FSI IPs don't leave is that they have an 800 hour training contract that they have to repay (in full, not pro rata) if they leave with so much as one hour less than 800 dual given.

From what I've heard the average instructor now has about two students there. Many are only flying about 15-20 hours per month. If I were a CFI on FlightSafety's waiting list, I would be thinking seriously about finding a job elsewhere unless you want to find yourself tied down for the next 5 years.

[Doug Taylor]

Sheesh, I've known Chunk since the olden days of jetcareers -- my statement was more or less a tease.

Hey Chunk, are you a mafia ring leader? Your croanies thought I stepped on your toes I guess!

Chunk Soprano!

[pscraig]

15-20 hours a month? That is bad. I have read elsewhere that enrollment at FSI is down 50% from normal, but that's even worse.

[Baronman]

I can't speak for every instructor across the country but I know where I fly out of instructors are flying about 1/2 the hours they were flying a year or two ago. 20 hours/month is not unheard of.

[davetheflyer]

At FSI it is at least partly due to mismanagement.

A big selling point in the program is that you can work there after you get your CFI. They keep hiring so they can tell people that the CFI hiring program is still open.

The same thing happened post-9-11. They kept hiring IPs long after student starts dropped off. A few IPs got hired over the summer and they immediately started doing stan classes again.

They need to determine how many CFIs they actually need based on the student population rather than hiring willy-nilly to help the marketing department.

It wouldn't be so bad if there were some sort of guaranteed salary, but FSI IPs get paid only when they work (except for a select few). You don't fly, you don't eat. And by that point, you also have a monstrous student loan to pay back.

What the management is doing is really not fair. They make you sign an 800 hour contract and then make it practically impossible to fulfill it. If you leave early, you add to your loan payments.

I, and a few other IPs, really thought that FSI needed an IP union, but no one wanted to risk upsetting management and losing what little income we did have. Rumor had it that an attempt was made to organize a union at one time and the instigators were fired.

At this time, I would have to say that it is not a good idea to work at FSI. It is still a good school to earn the CFI license, but you would be better off to work somewhere else until they get things together.

[pscraig]

Any of you guys at FSI right now care to share some insight on what the near future holds? I had heard IPs were getting 40-50 hours a month; that's not too bad but 20 hours a month is a tragedy. My CFI gets more than that instructing only on Saturdays.

More to the point: Do you feel that FSI is making efforts to find jobs for grads and raise enrollment? Unless these two factors change there can be little hope for improvement.