Executive Jet

[lancair1]

Does anyone know anything new. All I know is that four "it'll start at the end of the month" deadlines have passed with absolutely no result.

[Visceral]

I stopped holding my breath on whether this program would start.

[chunk75]

According to the EJA pilots on flightinfo.com, this deal is pretty much dead with a capital D. The owners (customers) have a stipulation in their contract as to the minimum experience level of their pilots. Fresh FSI grads don't come close to meeting them.

I think FSI is just using this to string folks along until ASA hires again.

Sucks, doesn't it!

Chunk

[lancair1]

Do you guy's think that Exec & FSI ever thought that this was feasible? If there was a stipulation in the contract's concerning minimum flight hours, there is no way this would have ever been possible. Yet I've been told by FSI "higher ups" that they have the thing coming together, a CJ sim is even supposed to be on the way.

This is ridiculous.

[FSI2ASA]

The deals not dead, at least from what I've heard. It's just not going to help me. At least not unless I instruct here. It's true that it's not going to be an ASA direct track deal but after CFI'ing you should be able to go to ExecJet. That's just what I've heard, I know nothing for certain.

[aviator]

I think what happened was the EJA's pilots union and insurance company was very opposed to low time pilots in the right seat. EJA had forcasted a huge need for pilots but looked at the number and quality of resumes being submitted and concluded that a FSI program would be a waste of time.
That just hersay and conjecture....who knows!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

nope ..your right aviator...thats what my instructor told me and 2 other employed people...no go on execjet...i am just finishing up flight safety,CFI bound...

[chunk75]

Is FSI still hiring their graduates? I thought there was a backlog?

Where are the guys who are moving up move up to?

Chunk

[Baronman]

Yep, FSI is still hiring their graduates...You get hired and then you wait, that is unless you're a foreign student, then you get to go to the front of the line...This is something that I don't think has been mentioned here in the forum that is currently a "hot" topic on the Flight Line. If you're at FSI on a Student Visa and you get hired you skip the waiting pool and start right away. Basically throwing the seniority system to the curb. They do this because the students with a VISA can't stay here in the country idle, they have to be studying or doing something so they jump the line. Yes I understand they have hardships, they've left their respective homelands but you know what, WE ALL HAVE HARDSHIPS PAYING FSI RATES!! You think taking out loans, moving, not working isn't a hardship? Basically for many of us even if we do get hired having to wait 3 or 4 months isn't feasable. I agree we're talking about a few students, less then a dozen but that's still 15% of the group not getting a number and skipping...CAN I GET AN AMEN!?

[chunk75]

On my tour of FSI three years ago, I was amazed at the number of foreign students. I got a bad vibe from them. Could be that I had just returned to from the Gulf and wasn't in the mood to hang around them in my first month back in the country.

Moving foreigners up to the front of the list, huh...sounds like someone needs to call an attorney. I don't make that statement lightly. I generally don't like mixing lawyers and aviation. I'll be p*ssed if I leave the military after years of service to this country to wait in line behind Ahab in order to get a job.

Chunk

[Timbuff10]

Seems like the gov. should be making it harder for foreign students to come over here and learn how to fly planes. After everything happened last year I thought an airline career may be out the window for a while but then I started to think maybe it would be easier since the laws for foreigners would surely change? Guess I was wrong on both accounts. I don't think in the grand scheme of things it is that bad but still it would be very annoying to work just as hard and then a foreigner takes your CFI spot because he has the whole Visa issue. Anyone know how the foreign population is at Pan Am in Arizona? I know its pretty thick at Comair.

Tim

[Baronman]

Keep in mind that not every foreign student was created equally at FSI...haha...Some are in contract programs like SwissAir and while they walk among us and fly among us they don't really have much to do with us. THEN, there are those which I mentioned above which are here on their own, with no airline ties, those where the students I was referring to above... I have no problem with the students here who are affiliated with foreign airlines..

[chunk75]

Is the EJA deal OFFICIALLY dead yet?

How about now that ASA is ramping up....is that pipeline starting to move?

Chunk

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Chunk,
Don't count on the EJA program for sometime IF it does happen. The union at EJA is not going to let a low time pilot in the cockpit for their company, even for a price. They may come down to 2000TT and an ATP but in my opinion and from what I have heard down here, I don't think it will make any progress for sometime. I could be wrong though.
Take Care.

[Veronaut]

One lesson I learned very early on in the service was "believe none of what you hear, & only half of what you see." This certainly applies in this case. I enjoy hearing the comments from "someone who knows someone who heard something." I value such statements for their entertainment purposes only.

As far as the foreign students go, I think it was Baronman who put it best about how they're here, but not really a part of what the rest of us do. I can sympathize with Chunk, I felt the same way when I returned from the Gulf War ten years ago. Now recent events have reopened old wounds, but that is a whole other story. If you look at it from FlightSafety's point of view, a lot of their credibility and raison d'etre is based on their ab initio training of pilots of major foreign carriers. Think about it, these students have already been screened by their airlines & have jobs waiting for them. The only screening the rest of us have is our medical certificates & our Key loan applications. Of course they are going to bend over backward for these foreign students. Is that right and/or fair? Who cares, often times goals worth attaining are difficult to reach. Every week there are regular joes like you & me coming here to train, which of course they appreciate, but coming on our own without an airline sponsorship doesn't add to their image. Airlines can choose to send their new hires anywhere, & FSI does all they can to keep them coming here. Is there a huge problem of foreigners taking our CFI jobs? I wasn't aware of it...but what do I know. My CFI is an American. I do know that the competetion for CFI jobs here at FSI is pretty high, as one would expect when there is little action further up the career ladder.

While the picture may not look as bleak as it did a few months ago, as there is some hiring activity at the regionals, everyone should have realistic expectations of the time & effort it is going to take to get to where you want to be. I have not until recently taken an active role in this board, but I do remember a post from a while back from someone who was griping about how FSI's marketing dept. told him the truth about the current employment outlook. That says a lot about people's expectations. They don't want to dwell on the facts, but cling on for dear life to innuendo.

Just some food for thought.

[chunk75]

Do the sponsored dudes instruct the sponsored dudes? In other words, can I expect to have an American instructor? Or at least an instructor that English is a primary language for? Just as long as he isn't a limey! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Come on Iain, you knew that was comin' I'm kidding about the limey thing, of course. I am not kidding about not having some pampered Saudi dude who has a job locked up not caring about my training!

Chunk

[Veronaut]

Chunk-

I am 99% sure your instructor will be an American. The sponsored students really don't have anything to do with the rest of us, they have their own ground schools & flight training. I could be wrong, but I don't think that they even stick around for CFI. Now, that's not to say that you won't be in any classes with a foreign student or two who came here unsponsored. My commercial ground had two (neither Arabic) who were both good to go. Even if you did get a non-American for an instructor, you can always change your instructor at anytime, for any reason.

While we are on the topic of instructors, let me offer up some advice. You can seek out an instructor when you get here, you don't have to wait for one to find you. You can shop around to the point of whether or not a certain CFI is taking students. Find out what their background is, flying as well as non-flying. In other words, this is a job interview, & you're doing the hiring. Ask about their ACTUAL instrument flying hours, simulated hours doesn't say as much. There are a lot of questions you can ask (& you will have your own) so I'm not going to dwell on it now, & I've got to check the wx for a flight right now anyway.

'naut

[aviator]

The vast majority of instructors at FSI are American but I wouldn't get too bent out of shape if you do get a foreign instructor. The best pilot on the flight line is Marcel (A Romanian), who used to be an aerobatics instructor in MIG 21's. I pretty sure he has forgotten more about aviation than you and me will ever know. My CFII instructor was a Phillipeano and was sharp as a tack.
I do think that moving foreign students to the front of the list is BS (since I'm on the list), but remember if they are an instructor there they earned their position it wasn't handed to them.

[lancair1]

Certainly there is nothing wrong with having a foreign instructor so long as they are very competent and easy to communicate with, but I feel that their ability to JUMP the pool is absolute b.s..

The foreign new-hire ratio is what, 2/10? What's 20% any way? I'm first in line to let them jump ahead of me in priority of scheduling too. How about we keep the close parking spots open for them with "foreign only" signs? Hell, why should any of us Americans be flying the new seminoles; let's give them those as well..

We have plenty of students with hardships. When the hiring pool is only a matter of weeks it is no big deal, when it is 8 months (if not indefinite) send them home to find work. They can come back.