Prospective Student

JJJoeJabba · June 10th, 2004, 12:27

Hey everyone:

I recently spoke with a recruiter at Pan Am and had the great majority of my questions answered, however there is one that still concerns me and I was hoping someone here could help. There is a lot that hinges on being employed as a flight instructor, of the people that successfully complete the rest of the program, how many will be employed as flight instructors? (%)

Thanks to anyone that can offer any help on this subject

montanapilot · June 10th, 2004, 12:52

Run!, don't walk

your pocketbook will get one hell of a wild ride if you go there.

Remember alot of acadmies like to blow sunshine up peoples arses and tell them all sorts of wild ideas. But in reality the airlines dont care where you train at it can be Joe Schmoe's FBO or it can be Pan Am, it doesnt matter in the airline's eyes.

gomntwins · June 11th, 2004, 01:32

I was at PanAm for awhile... and when I was there (I left in february), a large number of people were hired as instructors... but they were put on waiting lists for months (some I knew had been waiting a year) before they could actually start instructing (too many students moving through, and not enough instructors getting hired). I'm sure it's improved a bit with the new upsurge in hiring at the regional airline level... but waiting a year for a promised job doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me. Beyond that, a lot of the instructors who were instructing only ended up putting a few hundred hours in their logbooks a year... simple math makes that quest for a regional airline position from a 2 year plan (1 year training, 1 year instructing), like PanAm promises, closer to a 4 or 5 year plan (1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing).

project7 · June 11th, 2004, 14:26

You might also spend 4 or 5 years sitting on a park bench waiting for your next paycheck to walk by. Instructor jobs always suck. Having a nice facility to work in and new aircraft to fly can definatley make your time as an instructor feel less like being a used car salesman. But that's a personal decision we each have to make.

Wolverine · June 12th, 2004, 19:16

[ QUOTE ]
I was at PanAm for awhile... and when I was there (I left in february), a large number of people were hired as instructors... but they were put on waiting lists for months (some I knew had been waiting a year) before they could actually start instructing (too many students moving through, and not enough instructors getting hired). I'm sure it's improved a bit with the new upsurge in hiring at the regional airline level... but waiting a year for a promised job doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me. Beyond that, a lot of the instructors who were instructing only ended up putting a few hundred hours in their logbooks a year... simple math makes that quest for a regional airline position from a 2 year plan (1 year training, 1 year instructing), like PanAm promises, closer to a 4 or 5 year plan (1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing).

[/ QUOTE ]

Just correcting some facts here...

No instructors were waiting a year to instruct. There was no wait list until at least June 2003, so there's no way they could have waited a year to teach when you left 8 months later in February. I don't know exactly how long the wait was, but it was something like 3-6 months.

New instructors are now starting as soon as they finish the pre-hire stuff (indoc class and interview, backseat observation flights, and checkout flights) which takes 1-2 months after the final checkride. The instructors that are being interviewed and offered jobs this week by Skyway Airline started instructing in March 2003 or later, so they were instructing for 15 months or less.

Mavmb · June 13th, 2004, 22:05

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was at PanAm for awhile... and when I was there (I left in february), a large number of people were hired as instructors... but they were put on waiting lists for months (some I knew had been waiting a year) before they could actually start instructing (too many students moving through, and not enough instructors getting hired). I'm sure it's improved a bit with the new upsurge in hiring at the regional airline level... but waiting a year for a promised job doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me. Beyond that, a lot of the instructors who were instructing only ended up putting a few hundred hours in their logbooks a year... simple math makes that quest for a regional airline position from a 2 year plan (1 year training, 1 year instructing), like PanAm promises, closer to a 4 or 5 year plan (1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing).

[/ QUOTE ]

Just correcting some facts here...

No instructors were waiting a year to instruct. There was no wait list until at least June 2003, so there's no way they could have waited a year to teach when you left 8 months later in February. I don't know exactly how long the wait was, but it was something like 3-6 months.

New instructors are now starting as soon as they finish the pre-hire stuff (indoc class and interview, backseat observation flights, and checkout flights) which takes 1-2 months after the final checkride. The instructors that are being interviewed and offered jobs this week by Skyway Airline started instructing in March 2003 or later, so they were instructing for 15 months or less.

[/ QUOTE ]

With all due respect to you, you are not correcting the facts; you're spinning them. The guy that was at Pan Am gave an honest description of the flight instructor situation right now.

Mavmb · June 13th, 2004, 22:08

[ QUOTE ]
Run!, don't walk

your pocketbook will get one hell of a wild ride if you go there.

Remember alot of acadmies like to blow sunshine up peoples arses and tell them all sorts of wild ideas. But in reality the airlines dont care where you train at it can be Joe Schmoe's FBO or it can be Pan Am, it doesnt matter in the airline's eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen to that!!! Seriously, I don't think that's said enough.

Wolverine · June 14th, 2004, 12:18

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was at PanAm for awhile... and when I was there (I left in february), a large number of people were hired as instructors... but they were put on waiting lists for months (some I knew had been waiting a year) before they could actually start instructing (too many students moving through, and not enough instructors getting hired). I'm sure it's improved a bit with the new upsurge in hiring at the regional airline level... but waiting a year for a promised job doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me. Beyond that, a lot of the instructors who were instructing only ended up putting a few hundred hours in their logbooks a year... simple math makes that quest for a regional airline position from a 2 year plan (1 year training, 1 year instructing), like PanAm promises, closer to a 4 or 5 year plan (1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing).

[/ QUOTE ]

Just correcting some facts here...

No instructors were waiting a year to instruct. There was no wait list until at least June 2003, so there's no way they could have waited a year to teach when you left 8 months later in February. I don't know exactly how long the wait was, but it was something like 3-6 months.

New instructors are now starting as soon as they finish the pre-hire stuff (indoc class and interview, backseat observation flights, and checkout flights) which takes 1-2 months after the final checkride. The instructors that are being interviewed and offered jobs this week by Skyway Airline started instructing in March 2003 or later, so they were instructing for 15 months or less.

[/ QUOTE ]

With all due respect to you, you are not correcting the facts; you're spinning them. The guy that was at Pan Am gave an honest description of the flight instructor situation right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

How was that spinning the facts? The facts as he stated them: 1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing

The real and current facts: 1 year training, 1-2 month waiting, 12-15 months instructing. That adds to 2 1/2 years or less, not 4-5 years.

Mavmb · June 15th, 2004, 12:40

And not even a couple of threads below, the Flying Turkey said his wait to flight instruct was almost a year.

TheFlyingTurkey · June 15th, 2004, 17:37

Mav I know you can read, but I guess you can't count. I said I waited from October 1st to March 10th. Do the math.

Mavmb · June 16th, 2004, 03:22

Thank you. You've proven that PanAmGuy's facts aren't true.

Lima_Charlie · June 16th, 2004, 14:44

I was going to respond, but I realize it really isn't worth effort...

I feel sorry for you mav... :-(

Mavmb · June 16th, 2004, 23:56

Of course you don't have anything to say! What can you say? You've been caught in a lie!

Wolverine · June 20th, 2004, 05:01

[ QUOTE ]
The real and CURRENT facts: 1 year training, 1-2 month waiting, 12-15 months instructing. That adds to 2 1/2 years or less, not 4-5 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to respond, Mav still won't be satisfied. But anyway Mav, read what that statement says: THE CURRENT FACTS.

I knows it's hard to believe, but sometimes things improve. The previous poster was talking about the situation 4 months ago, and overexaggerated at that. The Turk's wait ended 3 months ago, and he was in Florida. Things are better now, instructors are getting hired by the airlines which leaves room for new instructors to be hired.

TheFlyingTurkey · June 21st, 2004, 22:20

Hey Mav, Eagle is interviewing Pan Am graduates at 700 hours TT now. You'll still be farting around in some old 152, and our CFI's will be at airlines. I thought you said the FBO route would be twice as fast? Wrong again!

Tired · June 22nd, 2004, 01:44

As far as can determine, Mav and I became instructors within a few months of each other. This is difficult to figure out because he is very vauge on exactly when he finished his ratings and began instructing, or how much time he has now. However, currently I have twice the time as him with 1000+ multi, with over half of that multi turbine.

Either the academy or the FBO route is what you make of it. However, if I'd never taught at Pan Am I'd never have the multi time that got me to where I am today. I lucked out getting an opportunity to teach there when I did.

Lima_Charlie · June 22nd, 2004, 09:21

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Mav, Eagle is interviewing Pan Am graduates at 700 hours TT now. You'll still be farting around in some old 152, and our CFI's will be at airlines. I thought you said the FBO route would be twice as fast? Wrong again!

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy now Turkey...Let's not start an US vs. the FBO flame war. Both routes are what you make of them. Unfortunately for Mav, he has to justify his route because he couldn't hack it at the academy level. I sure that there are FBO trained people out there that have gone from zero to hero in a very short time, so let's not forget about them.

TheFlyingTurkey · June 22nd, 2004, 12:54

Dont get me wrong, the FBO route may be better for some people, I agree. But Mav makes it seem like ANY FBO would be faster than Pan Am academy. For Him it may have been faster, but usually the FBO route does not offer the rigid fast paced training that academies offer. At most FBO's you decide how fast you want to go. And at most FBO's I doubt you will be averaging 90 hours a month as a CFI.
For me, I trained for 10 months, waited for 6 months, and will probably only be instructing for 10-12 months. That's just over 2 years from 0 time to an airline job. I think I've got Mav beat staying at Pan Am.

stuckingfk · June 22nd, 2004, 13:25

[ QUOTE ]
Dont get me wrong, the FBO route may be better for some people, I agree. But Mav makes it seem like ANY FBO would be faster than Pan Am academy. For Him it may have been faster, but usually the FBO route does not offer the rigid fast paced training that academies offer. At most FBO's you decide how fast you want to go. And at most FBO's I doubt you will be averaging 90 hours a month as a CFI.
For me, I trained for 10 months, waited for 6 months, and will probably only be instructing for 10-12 months. That's just over 2 years from 0 time to an airline job. I think I've got Mav beat staying at Pan Am.

[/ QUOTE ]

Turk,

Don't take this as me bashing you or anyone, but most people will save money buy going to an FBO. I know you might get to an airline quicker, but sometimes the money saved will help in the long run.

I know this all depends on the situation you are in too, you age, income, etc. So to each ones own.

Lima_Charlie · June 22nd, 2004, 14:12

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dont get me wrong, the FBO route may be better for some people, I agree. But Mav makes it seem like ANY FBO would be faster than Pan Am academy. For Him it may have been faster, but usually the FBO route does not offer the rigid fast paced training that academies offer. At most FBO's you decide how fast you want to go. And at most FBO's I doubt you will be averaging 90 hours a month as a CFI.
For me, I trained for 10 months, waited for 6 months, and will probably only be instructing for 10-12 months. That's just over 2 years from 0 time to an airline job. I think I've got Mav beat staying at Pan Am.

[/ QUOTE ]

Turk,

Don't take this as me bashing you or anyone, but most people will save money buy going to an FBO. I know you might get to an airline quicker, but sometimes the money saved will help in the long run.

I know this all depends on the situation you are in too, you age, income, etc. So to each ones own.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree... It comes down to a personal choice. A choice that some may agree w/ and some may not. No one should be able to "judge" that choice, Period!

montanapilot · June 22nd, 2004, 18:05

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately for Mav, he has to justify his route because he couldn't hack it at the academy level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I have met neither you or Mav. But what do you base this accusation on? Did you go to school with him and personally witness his "washout"? Seems to me you like to throw out the "can't hack it" line a little too much.

Maybe you are insecure of yourself and feel the need to rip on others (who's situation you have no clue about) in order to build yourself up.

Lima_Charlie · June 22nd, 2004, 20:03

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately for Mav, he has to justify his route because he couldn't hack it at the academy level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I have met neither you or Mav. But what do you base this accusation on? Did you go to school with him and personally witness his "washout"? Seems to me you like to throw out the "can't hack it" line a little too much.

Maybe you are insecure of yourself and feel the need to rip on others (who's situation you have no clue about) in order to build yourself up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, I am a pretty secure individual. You may not believe me, but I really do try to not tear anyone down, just to make myself look better. Although, I will admit that there are times when Mav is able to bring out the inner Jr. High kid in me. So, I guess it is my own personal shortcoming... allowing his attitude to occasionally alter mine.

I guess maybe I do use the "Mav couldn't hack it" line a little too much. I guess if he was the kind of person that would take responisibility for the way his training panned out, I would have a little more respect for his situation, as well as his opinion. Unfortunately, he feels the need to point his finger at everyone else for his failure and takes no responsibility. I have emphathized w/ his plight a number of times, yet he still comes back with the same empty, baseless claims against Pan Am. We have asked him numerous times to "move on", but he refuses. He continues to feel the need to share his 2 year old experience, that is fortunately no longer valid.

Notice how once "Team Pan Am" got mobilized to refute his claims, Mav disappeared??? I wonder if there is any connection???

mtsu_av8er · June 22nd, 2004, 20:08

Post deleted by mtsu_av8er

Lima_Charlie · June 22nd, 2004, 20:18

Okay, okay... In all fairness, I have edited out that comment. (I still think that is what he is going to say, though!!

)

Mavmb · June 22nd, 2004, 22:25

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately for Mav, he has to justify his route because he couldn't hack it at the academy level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I have met neither you or Mav. But what do you base this accusation on? Did you go to school with him and personally witness his "washout"? Seems to me you like to throw out the "can't hack it" line a little too much.

Maybe you are insecure of yourself and feel the need to rip on others (who's situation you have no clue about) in order to build yourself up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, I am a pretty secure individual. You may not believe me, but I really do try to not tear anyone down, just to make myself look better. Although, I will admit that there are times when Mav is able to bring out the inner Jr. High kid in me. So, I guess it is my own personal shortcoming... allowing his attitude to occasionally alter mine.

I guess maybe I do use the "Mav couldn't hack it" line a little too much. I guess if he was the kind of person that would take responisibility for the way his training panned out, I would have a little more respect for his situation, as well as his opinion. Unfortunately, he feels the need to point his finger at everyone else for his failure and takes no responsibility. I have emphathized w/ his plight a number of times, yet he still comes back with the same empty, baseless claims against Pan Am. We have asked him numerous times to "move on", but he refuses. He continues to feel the need to share his 2 year old experience, that is fortunately no longer valid.

Notice how once "Team Pan Am" got mobilized to refute his claims, Mav disappeared??? I wonder if there is any connection???

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm still here -- but sometimes it's not worth the effort with you guys.

June 10th, 2004, 12:27	#1
JJJoeJabba Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: California Posts: 2	Prospective Student Hey everyone: I recently spoke with a recruiter at Pan Am and had the great majority of my questions answered, however there is one that still concerns me and I was hoping someone here could help. There is a lot that hinges on being employed as a flight instructor, of the people that successfully complete the rest of the program, how many will be employed as flight instructors? (%) Thanks to anyone that can offer any help on this subject

June 10th, 2004, 12:52	#2
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: Prospective Student Run!, don't walk your pocketbook will get one hell of a wild ride if you go there. Remember alot of acadmies like to blow sunshine up peoples arses and tell them all sorts of wild ideas. But in reality the airlines dont care where you train at it can be Joe Schmoe's FBO or it can be Pan Am, it doesnt matter in the airline's eyes.

June 11th, 2004, 01:32	#3
gomntwins Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Dakota Posts: 509	Re: Prospective Student I was at PanAm for awhile... and when I was there (I left in february), a large number of people were hired as instructors... but they were put on waiting lists for months (some I knew had been waiting a year) before they could actually start instructing (too many students moving through, and not enough instructors getting hired). I'm sure it's improved a bit with the new upsurge in hiring at the regional airline level... but waiting a year for a promised job doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me. Beyond that, a lot of the instructors who were instructing only ended up putting a few hundred hours in their logbooks a year... simple math makes that quest for a regional airline position from a 2 year plan (1 year training, 1 year instructing), like PanAm promises, closer to a 4 or 5 year plan (1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing).

June 11th, 2004, 14:26	#4
project7 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 430	Re: Prospective Student You might also spend 4 or 5 years sitting on a park bench waiting for your next paycheck to walk by. Instructor jobs always suck. Having a nice facility to work in and new aircraft to fly can definatley make your time as an instructor feel less like being a used car salesman. But that's a personal decision we each have to make.

June 12th, 2004, 19:16	#5
Wolverine Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 167	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] I was at PanAm for awhile... and when I was there (I left in february), a large number of people were hired as instructors... but they were put on waiting lists for months (some I knew had been waiting a year) before they could actually start instructing (too many students moving through, and not enough instructors getting hired). I'm sure it's improved a bit with the new upsurge in hiring at the regional airline level... but waiting a year for a promised job doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me. Beyond that, a lot of the instructors who were instructing only ended up putting a few hundred hours in their logbooks a year... simple math makes that quest for a regional airline position from a 2 year plan (1 year training, 1 year instructing), like PanAm promises, closer to a 4 or 5 year plan (1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing). [/ QUOTE ] Just correcting some facts here... No instructors were waiting a year to instruct. There was no wait list until at least June 2003, so there's no way they could have waited a year to teach when you left 8 months later in February. I don't know exactly how long the wait was, but it was something like 3-6 months. New instructors are now starting as soon as they finish the pre-hire stuff (indoc class and interview, backseat observation flights, and checkout flights) which takes 1-2 months after the final checkride. The instructors that are being interviewed and offered jobs this week by Skyway Airline started instructing in March 2003 or later, so they were instructing for 15 months or less.

June 13th, 2004, 22:05	#6
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I was at PanAm for awhile... and when I was there (I left in february), a large number of people were hired as instructors... but they were put on waiting lists for months (some I knew had been waiting a year) before they could actually start instructing (too many students moving through, and not enough instructors getting hired). I'm sure it's improved a bit with the new upsurge in hiring at the regional airline level... but waiting a year for a promised job doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me. Beyond that, a lot of the instructors who were instructing only ended up putting a few hundred hours in their logbooks a year... simple math makes that quest for a regional airline position from a 2 year plan (1 year training, 1 year instructing), like PanAm promises, closer to a 4 or 5 year plan (1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing). [/ QUOTE ] Just correcting some facts here... No instructors were waiting a year to instruct. There was no wait list until at least June 2003, so there's no way they could have waited a year to teach when you left 8 months later in February. I don't know exactly how long the wait was, but it was something like 3-6 months. New instructors are now starting as soon as they finish the pre-hire stuff (indoc class and interview, backseat observation flights, and checkout flights) which takes 1-2 months after the final checkride. The instructors that are being interviewed and offered jobs this week by Skyway Airline started instructing in March 2003 or later, so they were instructing for 15 months or less. [/ QUOTE ] With all due respect to you, you are not correcting the facts; you're spinning them. The guy that was at Pan Am gave an honest description of the flight instructor situation right now.

June 13th, 2004, 22:08	#7
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] Run!, don't walk your pocketbook will get one hell of a wild ride if you go there. Remember alot of acadmies like to blow sunshine up peoples arses and tell them all sorts of wild ideas. But in reality the airlines dont care where you train at it can be Joe Schmoe's FBO or it can be Pan Am, it doesnt matter in the airline's eyes. [/ QUOTE ] Amen to that!!! Seriously, I don't think that's said enough.

June 14th, 2004, 12:18	#8
Wolverine Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 167	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I was at PanAm for awhile... and when I was there (I left in february), a large number of people were hired as instructors... but they were put on waiting lists for months (some I knew had been waiting a year) before they could actually start instructing (too many students moving through, and not enough instructors getting hired). I'm sure it's improved a bit with the new upsurge in hiring at the regional airline level... but waiting a year for a promised job doesn't sound like too good of a deal to me. Beyond that, a lot of the instructors who were instructing only ended up putting a few hundred hours in their logbooks a year... simple math makes that quest for a regional airline position from a 2 year plan (1 year training, 1 year instructing), like PanAm promises, closer to a 4 or 5 year plan (1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing). [/ QUOTE ] Just correcting some facts here... No instructors were waiting a year to instruct. There was no wait list until at least June 2003, so there's no way they could have waited a year to teach when you left 8 months later in February. I don't know exactly how long the wait was, but it was something like 3-6 months. New instructors are now starting as soon as they finish the pre-hire stuff (indoc class and interview, backseat observation flights, and checkout flights) which takes 1-2 months after the final checkride. The instructors that are being interviewed and offered jobs this week by Skyway Airline started instructing in March 2003 or later, so they were instructing for 15 months or less. [/ QUOTE ] With all due respect to you, you are not correcting the facts; you're spinning them. The guy that was at Pan Am gave an honest description of the flight instructor situation right now. [/ QUOTE ] How was that spinning the facts? The facts as he stated them: 1 year training, 1 year waiting, 2-3 years instructing The real and current facts: 1 year training, 1-2 month waiting, 12-15 months instructing. That adds to 2 1/2 years or less, not 4-5 years.

June 15th, 2004, 12:40	#9
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Prospective Student And not even a couple of threads below, the Flying Turkey said his wait to flight instruct was almost a year.

June 15th, 2004, 17:37	#10
TheFlyingTurkey Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 2,987	Re: Prospective Student Mav I know you can read, but I guess you can't count. I said I waited from October 1st to March 10th. Do the math.

June 16th, 2004, 03:22	#11
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Prospective Student Thank you. You've proven that PanAmGuy's facts aren't true.

June 16th, 2004, 14:44	#12
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Prospective Student I was going to respond, but I realize it really isn't worth effort... I feel sorry for you mav... :-(

June 16th, 2004, 23:56	#13
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Prospective Student Of course you don't have anything to say! What can you say? You've been caught in a lie!

June 20th, 2004, 05:01	#14
Wolverine Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 167	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] The real and CURRENT facts: 1 year training, 1-2 month waiting, 12-15 months instructing. That adds to 2 1/2 years or less, not 4-5 years. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure why I'm bothering to respond, Mav still won't be satisfied. But anyway Mav, read what that statement says: THE CURRENT FACTS. I knows it's hard to believe, but sometimes things improve. The previous poster was talking about the situation 4 months ago, and overexaggerated at that. The Turk's wait ended 3 months ago, and he was in Florida. Things are better now, instructors are getting hired by the airlines which leaves room for new instructors to be hired.

June 21st, 2004, 22:20	#15
TheFlyingTurkey Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 2,987	Re: Prospective Student Hey Mav, Eagle is interviewing Pan Am graduates at 700 hours TT now. You'll still be farting around in some old 152, and our CFI's will be at airlines. I thought you said the FBO route would be twice as fast? Wrong again!

June 22nd, 2004, 01:44	#16
Tired Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 514	Re: Prospective Student As far as can determine, Mav and I became instructors within a few months of each other. This is difficult to figure out because he is very vauge on exactly when he finished his ratings and began instructing, or how much time he has now. However, currently I have twice the time as him with 1000+ multi, with over half of that multi turbine. Either the academy or the FBO route is what you make of it. However, if I'd never taught at Pan Am I'd never have the multi time that got me to where I am today. I lucked out getting an opportunity to teach there when I did.

June 22nd, 2004, 09:21	#17
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] Hey Mav, Eagle is interviewing Pan Am graduates at 700 hours TT now. You'll still be farting around in some old 152, and our CFI's will be at airlines. I thought you said the FBO route would be twice as fast? Wrong again! [/ QUOTE ] Easy now Turkey...Let's not start an US vs. the FBO flame war. Both routes are what you make of them. Unfortunately for Mav, he has to justify his route because he couldn't hack it at the academy level. I sure that there are FBO trained people out there that have gone from zero to hero in a very short time, so let's not forget about them.

June 22nd, 2004, 12:54	#18
TheFlyingTurkey Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 2,987	Re: Prospective Student Dont get me wrong, the FBO route may be better for some people, I agree. But Mav makes it seem like ANY FBO would be faster than Pan Am academy. For Him it may have been faster, but usually the FBO route does not offer the rigid fast paced training that academies offer. At most FBO's you decide how fast you want to go. And at most FBO's I doubt you will be averaging 90 hours a month as a CFI. For me, I trained for 10 months, waited for 6 months, and will probably only be instructing for 10-12 months. That's just over 2 years from 0 time to an airline job. I think I've got Mav beat staying at Pan Am.

June 22nd, 2004, 13:25	#19
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,630	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] Dont get me wrong, the FBO route may be better for some people, I agree. But Mav makes it seem like ANY FBO would be faster than Pan Am academy. For Him it may have been faster, but usually the FBO route does not offer the rigid fast paced training that academies offer. At most FBO's you decide how fast you want to go. And at most FBO's I doubt you will be averaging 90 hours a month as a CFI. For me, I trained for 10 months, waited for 6 months, and will probably only be instructing for 10-12 months. That's just over 2 years from 0 time to an airline job. I think I've got Mav beat staying at Pan Am. [/ QUOTE ] Turk, Don't take this as me bashing you or anyone, but most people will save money buy going to an FBO. I know you might get to an airline quicker, but sometimes the money saved will help in the long run. I know this all depends on the situation you are in too, you age, income, etc. So to each ones own.

June 22nd, 2004, 14:12	#20
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Dont get me wrong, the FBO route may be better for some people, I agree. But Mav makes it seem like ANY FBO would be faster than Pan Am academy. For Him it may have been faster, but usually the FBO route does not offer the rigid fast paced training that academies offer. At most FBO's you decide how fast you want to go. And at most FBO's I doubt you will be averaging 90 hours a month as a CFI. For me, I trained for 10 months, waited for 6 months, and will probably only be instructing for 10-12 months. That's just over 2 years from 0 time to an airline job. I think I've got Mav beat staying at Pan Am. [/ QUOTE ] Turk, Don't take this as me bashing you or anyone, but most people will save money buy going to an FBO. I know you might get to an airline quicker, but sometimes the money saved will help in the long run. I know this all depends on the situation you are in too, you age, income, etc. So to each ones own. [/ QUOTE ] I completely agree... It comes down to a personal choice. A choice that some may agree w/ and some may not. No one should be able to "judge" that choice, Period!

June 22nd, 2004, 18:05	#21
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] Unfortunately for Mav, he has to justify his route because he couldn't hack it at the academy level. [/ QUOTE ] Now I have met neither you or Mav. But what do you base this accusation on? Did you go to school with him and personally witness his "washout"? Seems to me you like to throw out the "can't hack it" line a little too much. Maybe you are insecure of yourself and feel the need to rip on others (who's situation you have no clue about) in order to build yourself up.

June 22nd, 2004, 20:03	#22
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Unfortunately for Mav, he has to justify his route because he couldn't hack it at the academy level. [/ QUOTE ] Now I have met neither you or Mav. But what do you base this accusation on? Did you go to school with him and personally witness his "washout"? Seems to me you like to throw out the "can't hack it" line a little too much. Maybe you are insecure of yourself and feel the need to rip on others (who's situation you have no clue about) in order to build yourself up. [/ QUOTE ] Nope, I am a pretty secure individual. You may not believe me, but I really do try to not tear anyone down, just to make myself look better. Although, I will admit that there are times when Mav is able to bring out the inner Jr. High kid in me. So, I guess it is my own personal shortcoming... allowing his attitude to occasionally alter mine. I guess maybe I do use the "Mav couldn't hack it" line a little too much. I guess if he was the kind of person that would take responisibility for the way his training panned out, I would have a little more respect for his situation, as well as his opinion. Unfortunately, he feels the need to point his finger at everyone else for his failure and takes no responsibility. I have emphathized w/ his plight a number of times, yet he still comes back with the same empty, baseless claims against Pan Am. We have asked him numerous times to "move on", but he refuses. He continues to feel the need to share his 2 year old experience, that is fortunately no longer valid. Notice how once "Team Pan Am" got mobilized to refute his claims, Mav disappeared??? I wonder if there is any connection???

June 22nd, 2004, 20:08	#23
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: Prospective Student DELETED Post deleted by mtsu_av8er

June 22nd, 2004, 20:18	#24
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Prospective Student Okay, okay... In all fairness, I have edited out that comment. (I still think that is what he is going to say, though!! )

June 22nd, 2004, 22:25	#25
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Prospective Student [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Unfortunately for Mav, he has to justify his route because he couldn't hack it at the academy level. [/ QUOTE ] Now I have met neither you or Mav. But what do you base this accusation on? Did you go to school with him and personally witness his "washout"? Seems to me you like to throw out the "can't hack it" line a little too much. Maybe you are insecure of yourself and feel the need to rip on others (who's situation you have no clue about) in order to build yourself up. [/ QUOTE ] Nope, I am a pretty secure individual. You may not believe me, but I really do try to not tear anyone down, just to make myself look better. Although, I will admit that there are times when Mav is able to bring out the inner Jr. High kid in me. So, I guess it is my own personal shortcoming... allowing his attitude to occasionally alter mine. I guess maybe I do use the "Mav couldn't hack it" line a little too much. I guess if he was the kind of person that would take responisibility for the way his training panned out, I would have a little more respect for his situation, as well as his opinion. Unfortunately, he feels the need to point his finger at everyone else for his failure and takes no responsibility. I have emphathized w/ his plight a number of times, yet he still comes back with the same empty, baseless claims against Pan Am. We have asked him numerous times to "move on", but he refuses. He continues to feel the need to share his 2 year old experience, that is fortunately no longer valid. Notice how once "Team Pan Am" got mobilized to refute his claims, Mav disappeared??? I wonder if there is any connection??? [/ QUOTE ] No, I'm still here -- but sometimes it's not worth the effort with you guys.

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