CMEL

[GlideSlope]

Anybody do the Commercial Multi in 3 weeks or know of anybody that did?

[Killtron2000]

My CMEL only took a few days and 8 flight hours including the check ride. Its really an easy check ride and can be done in under a week.

[Tuckster]

You must have already had your SE comm ???? How about someone without the initial comm.

[Gonzorox]

When I went through the Aviators course, we did the CMEL as the initial. Even as an initial, 3 weeks is even a long time to get it done. Of course, the written is a different story altogether.

There were students who did the CMEL without doing the PMEL and still pulled that off in less than 3 weeks.

[Tuckster]

What is PMEL ??? If I get the written done in advance and get the 50 hr block, how long do you think I should allow for the initial CMEL. I will be using vacation as I'm still working. I can doe the SE add on later if I need it.

[surreal1221]

PMEL = private multi-engine land.

[Tuckster]

DUH ... Thanks ..... I have my PPL/IFR so you think I'm safe allowing 2 solid weeks for the CMEL initial ???

[Gonzorox]

Originally Posted by Tuckster

DUH ... Thanks ..... I have my PPL/IFR so you think I'm safe allowing 2 solid weeks for the CMEL initial ???

With the written out of the way, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get the CMEL done in 2 weeks. I've worked with a few guys to accomplish this very same thing. Just keep a good attitude, listen to your instructor and study 'em books! Good luck, we're all counting on you.

[Cactus_Cutter]

What? This can be done in less than a week:

Monday:
2hr day VFR X-C KFPR to KEYW watch sunset then
2hr night VFR X-C KEYW to KFPR
10 night T/O’s and Landings at KMLB

Tuesday:
Long X-C KFPR-KTLH-KOCF-KFPR do this at night to burn off night requirement too.

Wednesday:
2 Lessons air-work

Thursday:
2 Lessons more air-work

Friday:
Send him to the preferred DPE, morning slot 8:00am, 1hr flight, white slip by 11:00am, burgers at Tiki by noon…

Enough said.

[Tuckster]

Wow ... good stuff. I plan to do some time building while down there and thats probably where I got the 2 to 3 weeks. I will have my written done. This includes 2 check rides ... 1 for ME and 1 for comm ME correct ???

Thanks

[Gonzorox]

Originally Posted by Cactus_Cutter

Friday:
...1hr flight, white slip by 11:00am, burgers at Tiki by noon…

Indigestion from Tiki Burger at 1:30pm... priceless.

Since you plan on doing some of that timebuilding, you will need to knock out the the PMEL checkride first and foremost. Then timebuild. Then take the CMEL checkride.

If it were me, I would do the "combined" PMEL/CMEL first, then go off and do the "however many hours left" of timebuilding. Unless of course you can get an MEI timebuilder to fly with to knock out some of those 'supervised solo' requirements as well as the '2 hour day/night vfr' requirements. There are several ways you can play it.

Either way, your instructor can usually come up with the right plan. While I was an instructor I always ran stuff by the Chief Pilot(mostly because I'm a nim-wit).

[Getburned]

Why would you have to do the PMEL if you have the requirements for the CMEL? As long as you you have the correct hrs. and requirements for the CMEL, you shouldn't have to do the CMEL.

[kailuaboy]

Originally Posted by Cactus_Cutter

What? This can be done in less than a week:

Monday:
2hr day VFR X-C KFPR to KEYW watch sunset then
2hr night VFR X-C KEYW to KFPR
10 night T/O’s and Landings at KMLB

Tuesday:
Long X-C KFPR-KTLH-KOCF-KFPR do this at night to burn off night requirement too.

Wednesday:
2 Lessons air-work

Thursday:
2 Lessons more air-work

Friday:
Send him to the preferred DPE, morning slot 8:00am, 1hr flight, white slip by 11:00am, burgers at Tiki by noon…

Enough said.

HAHAHAHA, yeah right!! good luck with that, since he doesnt have the PMEL yet. If memory corrects me, and its been awhile since I was instructing, Im pretty sure you need the PMEL first.

Get your Commercial written done before you even get to the Aviator.

When I was instructing the fastest I have ever gotten anyone their PMEL, was 5 days. Also, it will take about 10-15hrs (if you're chair flying EVERY DAY!!).

You just cant get in the multi and do the maneuvers during your day and night Xcountries, i believe you have to be PIC for that. And you cant be PIC, unless you have the PMEL rating added to your certificate.

Advice: Stay flying in local area Ft. Pierce/Vero Beach and do the maneuvers there. Also, fly 2 times a day. 8-10am fly..... 10am-1pm combination of ground and buying lunch for your instructor.... 1-3pm fly again.... 3-4pm more ground.... 4-7pm.... eat dinner and study on your own (your instructor does have a life you know ). Continue this for 5 days.

THEN, do you commercial flying requirements.

[Cactus_Cutter]

Originally Posted by kailuaboy

HAHAHAHA, yeah right!! good luck with that, since he doesnt have the PMEL yet. If memory corrects me, and its been awhile since I was instructing, Im pretty sure you need the PMEL first.

Get your Commercial written done before you even get to the Aviator.

When I was instructing the fastest I have ever gotten anyone their PMEL, was 5 days. Also, it will take about 10-15hrs (if you're chair flying EVERY DAY!!).

You just cant get in the multi and do the maneuvers during your day and night Xcountries, i believe you have to be PIC for that. And you cant be PIC, unless you have the PMEL rating added to your certificate.

Advice: Stay flying in local area Ft. Pierce/Vero Beach and do the maneuvers there. Also, fly 2 times a day. 8-10am fly..... 10am-1pm combination of ground and buying lunch for your instructor.... 1-3pm fly again.... 3-4pm more ground.... 4-7pm.... eat dinner and study on your own (your instructor does have a life you know ). Continue this for 5 days.

THEN, do you commercial flying requirements.

Opps… I thought he had the total times required for a commercial initial (I would have looked his log book prior to any training or check ride). If he did have to total time requirements then we could have done a multi initial commercial with instrument. But since he does not then get the PMEL first build the PIC time then get CMEL.

When I was an instructor I would find the fastest and most economical way for my students to get their ratings. I did not like to see students get milked for unnecessary training or ratings.

[Gonzorox]

If someone has their 250 hours(say in a single), all the XC time requirements(say in a single), then you, as the instructor, can give them an endorsement to log PIC multi time without a multiengine rating. I forget all the specifics. But the tricky part is getting the long solo XC in a multi, and something like 10 TO's at night solo, and 5 hours night solo multi. With that endorsement, they can log "ACTING PIC/solo" while with the instructor.

Again, it has been a long time since I have done all this so I may be way off base here. But I do remember getting my students their CMEL without them ever having their PMEL. I apologize in advance if i am incorrect!!

[Cactus_Cutter]

Originally Posted by Gonzorox

If someone has their 250 hours(say in a single), all the XC time requirements(say in a single), then you, as the instructor, can give them an endorsement to log PIC multi time without a multiengine rating. I forget all the specifics. But the tricky part is getting the long solo XC in a multi, and something like 10 TO's at night solo, and 5 hours night solo multi. With that endorsement, they can log "ACTING PIC/solo" while with the instructor.

Again, it has been a long time since I have done all this so I may be way off base here. But I do remember getting my students their CMEL without them ever having their PMEL. I apologize in advance if i am incorrect!!

FAR 61.129 (b)(4): 10 hours of solo flight time in a multiengine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor (either of which may be credited towards flight time requirement in paragraph (b)(2) of this section ), on areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(2) of this part that includes at least -

The words are specific: “performing the duties of pilot in command in a multiengine airplane with an authorized instructor…” It does not say anything about a requirement to be rated as PIC in a multi-engine airplane. They just want to see if the student can handle the duties of PIC in a multi.

FYI you can get a student a ATP ASEL if they possess a private ASEL and ATP AMEL without a commercial ASEL. So no chandelles, crazy eights, and power off hope you land 180’s…

[kailuaboy]

I am 100% sure you need the PMEL to log PIC. Unless of course, you have an endorsement from your instructor (just like you were doing the PMEL as your initial Private pilot certificate). Following me so far?

You cant claim PIC when doing your PSEL unless your are endorsed. So, you can not claim PIC in the Multi unless you either 1, have the rating (PMEL), or 2, have an endorsement from your instructor to solo; thus claiming PIC.

[Cactus_Cutter]

Originally Posted by kailuaboy

I am 100% sure you need the PMEL to log PIC. Unless of course, you have an endorsement from your instructor (just like you were doing the PMEL as your initial Private pilot certificate). Following me so far?

You cant claim PIC when doing your PSEL unless your are endorsed. So, you can not claim PIC in the Multi unless you either 1, have the rating (PMEL), or 2, have an endorsement from your instructor to solo; thus claiming PIC.

So get the endorsement with a limitation for flight requirements FAR 61.129(b)(4) only. The student is going to be flying with the instructor anyway for FAR 61.129(b)(4) requirements. Why waste the student’s time and money on check rides they don’t need unless they don’t have the total time requirements for a commercial and need more PIC.

[Tuckster]

I'm heading down next week. I have 435TT/IFR and meet the requirements (XC). I will have to do 2 checkrides. I'm assuming ME 1st and Comm ME after that. I'm also doing the time building (50) so I plan to be down there for 2 weeks.

[kailuaboy]

I just thought of something. You could just do the CSEL first, then do the CMEL next. That would by-pass the PMEL requirement I believe, and you would have the CSEL out of the way too. Just a thought. Good luck.

[surreal1221]

You can have a PP-ASEL, and train for the CPL-MEL without having the PP-MEL.

The prerequisite for a Commercial lis. is a Private pilot's license.

You just can't log PIC ME time during your CMEL training.

[Tuckster]

I understand there is a bit of a dress code at Ari ??? Like no shorts and no T-shirts ???

[TheAlchemist]

Originally Posted by kailuaboy

I just thought of something. You could just do the CSEL first, then do the CMEL next. That would by-pass the PMEL requirement I believe, and you would have the CSEL out of the way too. Just a thought. Good luck.

You do not need PMEL to get you CMEL initial!

[surreal1221]

EXACTLY.

Just a PRIVATE PILOT CERTIFICATE!

[kailuaboy]

ok... i finally looked it up on FAA.gov, and you guys are right, i guess you dont need a PMEL before the initial Commercial. Oh well, like I said, its been awhile (about 18 months).