Is there anything good about Pan Am?

hallr1 · July 8th, 2003, 17:13

I had planned to attend Pan Am some time in the near future but after finding this forum, I am having doubts with all the negative stuff being said about the school. Can anyone tell me something positive about Pan Am? I know the dorms are all taken for the fall. How is the apartment hunting process?

Mavmb · July 8th, 2003, 19:05

Have you looked into smaller schools other than the big academies? There are a lot of schools where you can get your flight training much cheaper and faster than at the large academies. Just check airports in big cities, like the Scottsdale airport in Phoenix, or the Palwaukee aiport in Chicago.

TheFlyingTurkey · July 8th, 2003, 19:07

If you want to read some positive things about Pan Am, read my posts going back to when I started here last September.

The Turk.

TheFlyingTurkey · July 8th, 2003, 19:13

A lot of people keep saying you can get your ratings faster at an FBO, or anything other than a big academy.
If that is true, then how did I do the program at Pan Am, from 0 time to CFII in 10 months? I will finish MEI next week. So that is a total of 10 and a half months.

You would have to fly 7 days a week, and never take a day off to do it any faster.

The Turk.

Visceral · July 8th, 2003, 20:47

I think most people are emphasizing that the FBO route is <font color="blue"> cheaper </font>, not quicker. Speed isn't a big factor these days anyway. There aren't many regionals waiting to hire those with 300 hours anymore; that is unless you are Flychicaga

Tired · July 9th, 2003, 01:13

Once you finish the FBO route, then what? Quite a few of the guys that I know went to FBO route are still at the FBO, flying once a day with no hope of ever getting any multi. The advantage of going to an academy starts after you finish your ratings.

MikeD · July 9th, 2003, 09:02

[ QUOTE ]
Once you finish the FBO route, then what? Quite a few of the guys that I know went to FBO route are still at the FBO, flying once a day with no hope of ever getting any multi. The advantage of going to an academy starts after you finish your ratings.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the Academy's have a high turnover with everyone advancing?

pure_IMC · July 9th, 2003, 12:48

Ive been waiting just about 7 months to instruct there.

Wolverine · July 9th, 2003, 12:57

I finished the program in March and I picked up 2 students 6 weeks later. I'm enjoying instructing, learning a lot, and living the dream.

dakovich · July 10th, 2003, 11:30

turk, the speed at which you finished is not at all the norm.. or at least when i was there a year ago it wasn't. 10 months to finish is crazy fast

pink · July 10th, 2003, 16:09

I agree, Turk went through faster than anyone i have ever heard of. at dvt the fastest most capable people take around 14 months. and that is really fast for here. i have never heard of ANYONE finishing from zero to hero in 10 months.
Hey turk, what was the extent of your flight experience before coming ot pan am? a little bio maybe....

TheFlyingTurkey · July 10th, 2003, 17:48

Pink,
Well let's see, where do I begin? Just kidding. Since I was 18, I worked a full time job and went to school at night. For 12 years I worked in the air conditioning industry, then one day I got this crazy idea I wanted to switch careers. Well what else would I choose? Flying of course. I was influenced by some family members who were in the airline business, and I was responsible for the air conditioning at Miami International Airport, and I had ramp access, 24 hours a day. So I hardly got any work done, watching all those cool planes.
So I called my Cousin, who is a captain at ACA, and asked his advice. He went with me on tours of 4 schools, and after weighing all the options I chose Pan Am. (He went to FSI) I started at Pan Am September 1, 2002 with 0 flight time. (I had flown in a C152 a couple times over the years) I am now a CFII, and will be up for MEI next week.
So as you can see from my life experience, I have a good work ethic, which I am sure helped me to do so well at Pan Am.

The Turk.

Mavmb · July 16th, 2003, 19:29

[ QUOTE ]
Once you finish the FBO route, then what? Quite a few of the guys that I know went to FBO route are still at the FBO, flying once a day with no hope of ever getting any multi. The advantage of going to an academy starts after you finish your ratings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite a few Pan Am students have walked into my FBO to rent our twins, and 172s (they aren't allowed to rent planes at their own school) and look for a flight instructor job since Pan AM couldn't give them one.

Tired · July 16th, 2003, 21:23

I dunno about that, I've rented aircraft with no problem whenever I've needed them, even the Seminole. As I understand it student's cannot fly solo in retracts, but they are more then welcome to rent Archers.

There's got to be more to the story about instructors comming down and saying Pan Am won't hire them. As far as I know everyone has been hired, except for a select few who were asked to leave.

MikeD · July 18th, 2003, 22:33

[ QUOTE ]
. As I understand it student's cannot fly solo in retracts,

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is that? Insurance reasons?

Mavmb · July 21st, 2003, 22:01

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno about that, I've rented aircraft with no problem whenever I've needed them, even the Seminole. As I understand it student's cannot fly solo in retracts, but they are more then welcome to rent Archers.

There's got to be more to the story about instructors comming down and saying Pan Am won't hire them. As far as I know everyone has been hired, except for a select few who were asked to leave.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two more Pan Am graduates came into Sawyer today looking for flight instructor jobs and aircraft rental. They were very polite and seemed to have good attitudes. I wish them good luck and hope they can find a pilot job somewhere.

panampilot · July 21st, 2003, 23:17

Pan Am find themselves in a very unforunate situation right now. Pan Am hires every one of it's graduates if they complete the program succesfully. With the industry the way it is right now none of the instructors are leaving from the top so the attrition rate is very low. Every summer enrollment goes down due to many factors. With no students, and too many cfi's we have a dilemna. Let's hope things pick up fast.

Mavmb · July 22nd, 2003, 22:48

[ QUOTE ]
Pan Am find themselves in a very unforunate situation right now. Pan Am hires every one of it's graduates if they complete the program succesfully. With the industry the way it is right now none of the instructors are leaving from the top so the attrition rate is very low. Every summer enrollment goes down due to many factors. With no students, and too many cfi's we have a dilemna. Let's hope things pick up fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds understandable. I can't fault Pan Am for that. It is difficult to find any flying job right now. Hopefully the industry will pick up again soon.

panampilot · July 22nd, 2003, 23:02

It seems to come in spurts also. About 3 months ago about a dozen of our instructors were going several places. Now, things are literally at a stand still. I happen to be in place ready to go but no one is hiring. Very frustrating.

MikeD · July 23rd, 2003, 15:08

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to come in spurts also. About 3 months ago about a dozen of our instructors were going several places. Now, things are literally at a stand still. I happen to be in place ready to go but no one is hiring. Very frustrating.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many instructors graduate at a time, on average, as compared to the number of students inflowing?

And I agree. Aviation is simply tough these days. Regardless of school policies, FBO vs Academy, etc, etc; it's just hard to find people with the money to push through a professional pilot program. That or these same people are unwilling to incur that debt that comes with a loan, regardless of their love for flying.

Tough all around.

PanAmFPRHappy1 · July 23rd, 2003, 17:52

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to come in spurts also. About 3 months ago about a dozen of our instructors were going several places. Now, things are literally at a stand still. I happen to be in place ready to go but no one is hiring. Very frustrating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mesaba is interviewing Pan Am Graduates right now and a few have already been hired.

Tired · July 23rd, 2003, 23:19

Really? Have any left yet? I don't think anyone has left phoenix since first week of June...

Center_Mid · July 25th, 2003, 14:50

[ QUOTE ]
Aviation is simply tough these days. Regardless of school policies, FBO vs Academy, etc, etc; it's just hard to find people with the money to push through a professional pilot program. That or these same people are unwilling to incur that debt that comes with a loan, regardless of their love for flying.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be signing a loan app right now if the outlook wasn't so completely dismal. Granted, I would be foolish to wait for a full-fledged industry boom before jumping into my commercial/ME, but there doesn't seem to be much hope among the faithful these days. Why take on a $40k+ loan if there's a very good chance that you'll end up right back in your crummy day job after ten years of struggling? (But then, we all know why...)

hoosier · August 13th, 2003, 16:14

I was very skeptical about Pan Am because of this forum also. I gave it a chance and I love it! Here's the deal. You have to be willing to give 120% or else you will not make it. Pan Am and the other academies are very fast paced and demanding. If you are willing to study hard and stay focused you will do great at Pan Am. While I have been here, I have seen several people wash out. They are the ones that brag about partying all night and getting drunk. Well, they failed ground school, and blamed everyone but themselves. The Chief Flight Instructor talks with them trying to get them focused and then they say how the Chief is trying to be their dad, and how Pan Am sucks. They are probably signing up at Jet Careers to get in line to bash Pan Am. So please do not listen only to the bad stuff. I absolutely love it here at Pan Am and would not go anywhere else.
Hope this helps.

dakovich · August 14th, 2003, 19:27

how far are you in your training? also, try not to make assumptions on those who have not so nice things to say about Panam.

July 8th, 2003, 17:13	#1
hallr1 Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 10	Is there anything good about Pan Am? I had planned to attend Pan Am some time in the near future but after finding this forum, I am having doubts with all the negative stuff being said about the school. Can anyone tell me something positive about Pan Am? I know the dorms are all taken for the fall. How is the apartment hunting process?

July 8th, 2003, 19:05	#2
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? Have you looked into smaller schools other than the big academies? There are a lot of schools where you can get your flight training much cheaper and faster than at the large academies. Just check airports in big cities, like the Scottsdale airport in Phoenix, or the Palwaukee aiport in Chicago.

July 8th, 2003, 19:07	#3
TheFlyingTurkey Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 2,814	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? If you want to read some positive things about Pan Am, read my posts going back to when I started here last September. The Turk.

July 8th, 2003, 19:13	#4
TheFlyingTurkey Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 2,814	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? A lot of people keep saying you can get your ratings faster at an FBO, or anything other than a big academy. If that is true, then how did I do the program at Pan Am, from 0 time to CFII in 10 months? I will finish MEI next week. So that is a total of 10 and a half months. You would have to fly 7 days a week, and never take a day off to do it any faster. The Turk.

July 8th, 2003, 20:47	#5
Visceral Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 293	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? I think most people are emphasizing that the FBO route is <font color="blue"> cheaper </font>, not quicker. Speed isn't a big factor these days anyway. There aren't many regionals waiting to hire those with 300 hours anymore; that is unless you are Flychicaga

July 9th, 2003, 01:13	#6
Tired Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 514	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? Once you finish the FBO route, then what? Quite a few of the guys that I know went to FBO route are still at the FBO, flying once a day with no hope of ever getting any multi. The advantage of going to an academy starts after you finish your ratings.

July 9th, 2003, 09:02	#7
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? [ QUOTE ] Once you finish the FBO route, then what? Quite a few of the guys that I know went to FBO route are still at the FBO, flying once a day with no hope of ever getting any multi. The advantage of going to an academy starts after you finish your ratings. [/ QUOTE ] And the Academy's have a high turnover with everyone advancing?

July 9th, 2003, 12:48	#8
pure_IMC Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vero Beach, FL Posts: 181	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? Ive been waiting just about 7 months to instruct there.

July 9th, 2003, 12:57	#9
Wolverine Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 167	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? I finished the program in March and I picked up 2 students 6 weeks later. I'm enjoying instructing, learning a lot, and living the dream.

July 10th, 2003, 11:30	#10
dakovich Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,021	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? turk, the speed at which you finished is not at all the norm.. or at least when i was there a year ago it wasn't. 10 months to finish is crazy fast

July 10th, 2003, 16:09	#11
pink Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? I agree, Turk went through faster than anyone i have ever heard of. at dvt the fastest most capable people take around 14 months. and that is really fast for here. i have never heard of ANYONE finishing from zero to hero in 10 months. Hey turk, what was the extent of your flight experience before coming ot pan am? a little bio maybe....

July 10th, 2003, 17:48	#12
TheFlyingTurkey Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 2,814	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? Pink, Well let's see, where do I begin? Just kidding. Since I was 18, I worked a full time job and went to school at night. For 12 years I worked in the air conditioning industry, then one day I got this crazy idea I wanted to switch careers. Well what else would I choose? Flying of course. I was influenced by some family members who were in the airline business, and I was responsible for the air conditioning at Miami International Airport, and I had ramp access, 24 hours a day. So I hardly got any work done, watching all those cool planes. So I called my Cousin, who is a captain at ACA, and asked his advice. He went with me on tours of 4 schools, and after weighing all the options I chose Pan Am. (He went to FSI) I started at Pan Am September 1, 2002 with 0 flight time. (I had flown in a C152 a couple times over the years) I am now a CFII, and will be up for MEI next week. So as you can see from my life experience, I have a good work ethic, which I am sure helped me to do so well at Pan Am. The Turk.

July 16th, 2003, 19:29	#13
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? [ QUOTE ] Once you finish the FBO route, then what? Quite a few of the guys that I know went to FBO route are still at the FBO, flying once a day with no hope of ever getting any multi. The advantage of going to an academy starts after you finish your ratings. [/ QUOTE ] Quite a few Pan Am students have walked into my FBO to rent our twins, and 172s (they aren't allowed to rent planes at their own school) and look for a flight instructor job since Pan AM couldn't give them one.

July 16th, 2003, 21:23	#14
Tired Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 514	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? I dunno about that, I've rented aircraft with no problem whenever I've needed them, even the Seminole. As I understand it student's cannot fly solo in retracts, but they are more then welcome to rent Archers. There's got to be more to the story about instructors comming down and saying Pan Am won't hire them. As far as I know everyone has been hired, except for a select few who were asked to leave.

July 18th, 2003, 22:33	#15
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? [ QUOTE ] . As I understand it student's cannot fly solo in retracts, [/ QUOTE ] Why is that? Insurance reasons?

July 21st, 2003, 22:01	#16
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? [ QUOTE ] I dunno about that, I've rented aircraft with no problem whenever I've needed them, even the Seminole. As I understand it student's cannot fly solo in retracts, but they are more then welcome to rent Archers. There's got to be more to the story about instructors comming down and saying Pan Am won't hire them. As far as I know everyone has been hired, except for a select few who were asked to leave. [/ QUOTE ] Two more Pan Am graduates came into Sawyer today looking for flight instructor jobs and aircraft rental. They were very polite and seemed to have good attitudes. I wish them good luck and hope they can find a pilot job somewhere.

July 21st, 2003, 23:17	#17
panampilot Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 148	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? Pan Am find themselves in a very unforunate situation right now. Pan Am hires every one of it's graduates if they complete the program succesfully. With the industry the way it is right now none of the instructors are leaving from the top so the attrition rate is very low. Every summer enrollment goes down due to many factors. With no students, and too many cfi's we have a dilemna. Let's hope things pick up fast.

July 22nd, 2003, 22:48	#18
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? [ QUOTE ] Pan Am find themselves in a very unforunate situation right now. Pan Am hires every one of it's graduates if they complete the program succesfully. With the industry the way it is right now none of the instructors are leaving from the top so the attrition rate is very low. Every summer enrollment goes down due to many factors. With no students, and too many cfi's we have a dilemna. Let's hope things pick up fast. [/ QUOTE ] That sounds understandable. I can't fault Pan Am for that. It is difficult to find any flying job right now. Hopefully the industry will pick up again soon.

July 22nd, 2003, 23:02	#19
panampilot Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 148	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? It seems to come in spurts also. About 3 months ago about a dozen of our instructors were going several places. Now, things are literally at a stand still. I happen to be in place ready to go but no one is hiring. Very frustrating.

July 23rd, 2003, 15:08	#20
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? [ QUOTE ] It seems to come in spurts also. About 3 months ago about a dozen of our instructors were going several places. Now, things are literally at a stand still. I happen to be in place ready to go but no one is hiring. Very frustrating. [/ QUOTE ] How many instructors graduate at a time, on average, as compared to the number of students inflowing? And I agree. Aviation is simply tough these days. Regardless of school policies, FBO vs Academy, etc, etc; it's just hard to find people with the money to push through a professional pilot program. That or these same people are unwilling to incur that debt that comes with a loan, regardless of their love for flying. Tough all around.

July 23rd, 2003, 17:52	#21
PanAmFPRHappy1 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Fort Pierce, FL Posts: 22	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? [ QUOTE ] It seems to come in spurts also. About 3 months ago about a dozen of our instructors were going several places. Now, things are literally at a stand still. I happen to be in place ready to go but no one is hiring. Very frustrating. [/ QUOTE ] Mesaba is interviewing Pan Am Graduates right now and a few have already been hired.

July 23rd, 2003, 23:19	#22
Tired Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 514	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? Really? Have any left yet? I don't think anyone has left phoenix since first week of June...

July 25th, 2003, 14:50	#23
Center_Mid Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 213	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? [ QUOTE ] Aviation is simply tough these days. Regardless of school policies, FBO vs Academy, etc, etc; it's just hard to find people with the money to push through a professional pilot program. That or these same people are unwilling to incur that debt that comes with a loan, regardless of their love for flying. [/ QUOTE ] I'd be signing a loan app right now if the outlook wasn't so completely dismal. Granted, I would be foolish to wait for a full-fledged industry boom before jumping into my commercial/ME, but there doesn't seem to be much hope among the faithful these days. Why take on a $40k+ loan if there's a very good chance that you'll end up right back in your crummy day job after ten years of struggling? (But then, we all know why...)

August 13th, 2003, 16:14	#24
hoosier Newbie Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 6	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? I was very skeptical about Pan Am because of this forum also. I gave it a chance and I love it! Here's the deal. You have to be willing to give 120% or else you will not make it. Pan Am and the other academies are very fast paced and demanding. If you are willing to study hard and stay focused you will do great at Pan Am. While I have been here, I have seen several people wash out. They are the ones that brag about partying all night and getting drunk. Well, they failed ground school, and blamed everyone but themselves. The Chief Flight Instructor talks with them trying to get them focused and then they say how the Chief is trying to be their dad, and how Pan Am sucks. They are probably signing up at Jet Careers to get in line to bash Pan Am. So please do not listen only to the bad stuff. I absolutely love it here at Pan Am and would not go anywhere else. Hope this helps.

August 14th, 2003, 19:27	#25
dakovich Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,021	Re: Is there anything good about Pan Am? how far are you in your training? also, try not to make assumptions on those who have not so nice things to say about Panam.

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