Calling all Aviators!!

USMC-SGT · October 10th, 2006, 20:06

HUGE question............

I am still in the military and have started my VA training here in SoCal but have hit a big speedbump.

The FBO I fly at hasnt done much with the VA and nothing as big as a "pro course" I am doing my ratings in this order

PMEL
CMEL
CSEL
CFI
CFII
MEI

The VA called and said that since I was only enrolled in a PMEL course they would not pay. I understand their rules how they dont want a student to just get an additional rating for personal enjoyment and take the money so they want to see someone simultaneously enrolled in the commercial course as well.

so here is the question

What order does Ari ben do the VA pro course in and how do they work the paperwork so that it is all reimbursed? I am sure it is just a loophole and I can tell them that I am enrolled in a so called "pro course" and not just getting an additional rating for personal use.

someone help me please so I can get this sorted out!

SmitteyB · October 10th, 2006, 21:43

Call and talk to Mary, she'll help you out.

USMC-SGT · October 10th, 2006, 21:54

Thanks smitty,
I actually did call and talk to mary, she was not sure and because of the time change she was sitting at home and not at work. She said I could try tomorrow. I was hoping there was a current or past va student or instructor here that would know the scoop

Beast11 · October 10th, 2006, 23:29

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but...all of the research I've done tells me you're pretty much SOL when it comes to getting VA reimbursement for PMEL. (I'm also active duty, ready to get out and jump on the flight train in a few months). Still, I'm curious about possible loopholes as well for milking more veteran-earned bennies.

USMC-SGT · October 10th, 2006, 23:43

I believe you can be reimbursed for the pmel. The school gave me their VA approved programs info packet that was set up in conjunction with the VA and it has PMEL listed as one of the programs. I know for a fact they do not pay for your initial private but since my initial private is already done this is just an add on rating.

I think where we are running into the problem is that the VA is VERY specific that they do not want to and will not just pay for an instrument rating or just a MEL add on etc etc. The only reason they pay for flight training is because it is towards an occupation, so they dont want you to do the instrument unless you are already enrolled in a commercial course as well because obviously with the commercial it can be an occupation as opposed to a private instrument it is just a hobby.

That is why I am hoping one of the aviators shows up, i believe manny was and I know there are a few others around here that can tell me the way ari does it, as in the order they go in for the ratings. That would help me figure out what to tell the VA so they pay me. I think I will just have the school enroll me in my commerical multi right away and work on the other ratings at the same time. I dont think the VA cares what order you finish in so long as you are enrolled in a commercial course...

but then again if I knew I wouldnt be asking here

kailuaboy · October 11th, 2006, 10:11

Here is the way I remember it:

I was enrolled in the VA Pro Course at the Aviator.
PSEL -NO MONEY
PMEL - NO MONEY (ariben got approved after I was well past this point)
Instrument MONEY (I was enrolled in both the Instrument and the Commercial MEL at the same time, maybe even the Commercial SEL too)
The aviators VA commercial course has you doing your MEL and SEL stuff at the same time. You pretty much have your checkride for MEL one day and SEL the next. Oh and your Commerical SEL is in the Arrow.

I believe the Instructor MEL is also approved by the VA for the aviator. It wasnt when I was going through it.

When I was there as a student and instructor, they were trying to get the whole Pro course 141.

I hope the above helps. Some of my students where VA too. Oh and another thing,.... it takes a hell-of-a long time to get your money back from the VA. It took me 9 months (I was studying for my Initial MEL instructor rating at the time).

Pierre is the man to talk to about VA at the aviator. With all due respect though. I dont know if I would call and ask how they do their paperwork though. Your kinda asking how they run their business. Your flight school (if they are VA approved) should be doing all this paperwork and BS for you. They should have past examples on how the VA likes things done. The VA is VERY particular on how paperwork is completed.

BTW, congrats on coming home safe and thank you for doing your job. Last time I talked to you, I think you still had 6 months left.

USMC-SGT · October 11th, 2006, 10:32

You were one of the people I was hoping to hear from, I just wasnt sure if you would see this post or if they were keeping you busy on the brasilia. You are right about talking to Ari, that is a last resort becuase you are correct, I am asking them to help me out by giving my business to another school. My school is supposed to do all of the VA work but they are not very knowledgeable on the subject. They are approved but I think all they have dealt with is the occassional commercial student, no one doing every rating. I think what I will do is just simultaneously enroll in the commercial courses as well because that is what keeps coming up, they want to see me working towards a commercial rating. I belive pmel is approved for VA but I will have to look into it as well.

Thanks on the congrats, it is good to be back and with my wife and back in the air. I have been trying to fly around 8 hours a week to get this stuff done, alot of work though working 0530-1630 everyday and then flying, i enjoy the duchess though.

hows x-jet treating you?

Beechlover · October 12th, 2006, 16:30

I'm currently enrolled in the VA Pro program. I'm getting ready to do my multi (PMEL) add-on, as a matter fact my instructor and I are going to get with Pierre tomorrow to enroll me in the multi portion of training. I'm enrolled in the Commercial Pilot (AMEL) and also the Instrument Rating (AMEL) courses simultaneously. That is how I understand that they do this, through simultaneous enrollment. Some of the VA program is still part 61 though. The CSEL, CFI, and CFII are all part 61. It was explained to me that it is cheaper for me in the long run to do it this way. Strange because the MEI is part 141. Hope this helps, glad to see you made it home okay. Best of Luck!

Rudy

MFT1Air · October 12th, 2006, 22:07

USMC-SGT wrote:

Quote:

The FBO I fly at hasnt done much with the VA and nothing as big as a "pro course" I am doing my ratings in this order

PMEL
CMEL
CSEL
CFI
CFII
MEI

Are they not paying simply because of PMEL or the "order" in which you're going through training? For example, if you started with CSEL or CMEL, then would they pay?

USMC-SGT · October 12th, 2006, 23:46

I believe it is the order or the "percieved" order. I think my solution will be to be simultaneously enrolled in the CMEL course and just contribute a few hours to it a month, not that it matters much now though because my pmel checkride is in a few days and cmel is next

Jmanuel0926 · November 6th, 2006, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMC-SGT

I believe it is the order or the "percieved" order. I think my solution will be to be simultaneously enrolled in the CMEL course and just contribute a few hours to it a month, not that it matters much now though because my pmel checkride is in a few days and cmel is next

USMC-SGT can you please share some info about Aviator. I been thinking about attending Aviator and would like to understand how VA benefits really work. Do they pay for your PPL?ETC If they dont cover PPL would it be a good idea to get my PPL at a local FBO and then attent Aviator? Any info would be helpful..thank you....

CarolinaAviator1984 · November 6th, 2006, 16:08

i did my ppl at a local fbo before attending the aviator cost me about $8,000 i am not sure how much it cost here but i know it is less then that. also you will have better luck finishing it faster here . just my thought..... oh and side note i am not paid by the school to post positive relpys im actually just a student who personaly does not get along with management but regardless still find it in my heart to tell the truth and that being said you would not be dissapointed in the training you get from the aviator. hope this helps

Gonzo · November 6th, 2006, 16:11

But TJ loves you.

CarolinaAviator1984 · November 6th, 2006, 17:11

thats because i pay on time

Jmanuel0926 · November 6th, 2006, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolinaAviator1984

i did my ppl at a local fbo before attending the aviator cost me about $8,000 i am not sure how much it cost here but i know it is less then that. also you will have better luck finishing it faster here . just my thought..... oh and side note i am not paid by the school to post positive relpys im actually just a student who personaly does not get along with management but regardless still find it in my heart to tell the truth and that being said you would not be dissapointed in the training you get from the aviator. hope this helps

Is there time to have employment while you train and how is housing in the area?

Gonzo · November 6th, 2006, 17:30

Send maverick a private message. He should be able to answer both those questions.

CarolinaAviator1984 · November 6th, 2006, 17:32

some guys have part time jobs so it can be done as for the housing better make sure you have a car because its a drive to the school from the housing you can do like some of us and get your own place saves some money that way but you will still need a car there is a "shutle" that runs to some of the housing but im not sure how effective it is because i know instructors are still having to pic up students for flights

CarolinaAviator1984 · November 6th, 2006, 17:35

there was a thread about the housing im not sure were it went to you can probubly find it but over all the housing is pretty nice expect about six hundred a month for that

SteveC · November 6th, 2006, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Send maverick a private message. He should be able to answer both those questions.

Why not discuss it in the open?

Gonzo · November 6th, 2006, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

Why not discuss it in the open?

If Maverick wants to discuss in the open he's free to. Out of the active members that go to the aviator. Maverick is the only one that I know of that worked a job and lived at nonschool housing. I would say that makes him the resident expert.

Doug Taylor · November 6th, 2006, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

Why not discuss it in the open?

Precisely.

The day I can stop babysitting this forum topic, I'll throw a parade.

armyveteran2006 · November 6th, 2006, 19:41

USMC-SGT and all VA eligible veterans,

I am currently receiving benefits from the VA for flight training. The VA will pay 60% of the minimum hours for your training. If you want to become a professional pilot you need to attend a flight school that is certified by the VA and usually it is a school operating under part 141 (not part 61) program.

Next you should consider what you are getting for your money at various schools and how much the VA will reimburse at these schools. IT DOES VARY FOR EACH SCHOOL!!

I am currently at my second school for aviation. My first school the VA would pay me 16K to 19K. At Aviator the VA pays 20K to 24K.

Pay attention to what you get and total costs of programs. I was at well known highly advertised flight school in central Florida where they advertised a price of 63K but, most people walked away paying as much as 90K to 100K only receiving about 250 total hours with about 30 multi.

At Aviator I am getting 200 hrs of multi with 15 to 30 hour single. 55 multi hours are solo which I just finished. During those 55 hours I flew from Florida to California to North Carolina back to Florida over about 2 weeks. It was a once in a lifetime experience! I have flow through Atlanta's Airspace, over 11 hours of actual IMC, over the Golden Gate Bridge and Alcatraz, Santa Monica, San Diego, New Orleans, Tucson Arizona, And to North Carolina. I don’t know of any other school in the country that allows a student to do this as part of their program.

I have no problems recommending this school to any veterans I meet because I am Paying a lower price than I was at my first school, living in better and cheaper housing, and am going to finish and be hirable faster than any other place that I know.

If you have further questions please contact me and I will try and answer them. I don’t believe in BS and I will be honest about my experiences and those of others that I know at other schools as students or instructors.

Army Veteran

CarolinaAviator1984 · November 6th, 2006, 19:49

army vet where in nc did you fly to i am from nc and i flew their when i was doing my time building i wish i could have flown to more places but it was still nice to get out of florida for a few days.

armyveteran2006 · November 6th, 2006, 20:02

I flew from RYY Cobb-Mcullam Airport in Atlanta GA to Raleigh-Durham International (RDU) in North Carolina. I had a great time in UNC Chapell-Hill NC. Where are you from and where are you now?

DE727UPS · November 6th, 2006, 21:12

"over 11 hours of actual IMC"

You didn't log any of that actual when you were safety pilot, did ya?

October 10th, 2006, 20:06	#1
USMC-SGT Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Posts: 1,173	Calling all Aviators!! HUGE question............ I am still in the military and have started my VA training here in SoCal but have hit a big speedbump. The FBO I fly at hasnt done much with the VA and nothing as big as a "pro course" I am doing my ratings in this order PMEL CMEL CSEL CFI CFII MEI The VA called and said that since I was only enrolled in a PMEL course they would not pay. I understand their rules how they dont want a student to just get an additional rating for personal enjoyment and take the money so they want to see someone simultaneously enrolled in the commercial course as well. so here is the question What order does Ari ben do the VA pro course in and how do they work the paperwork so that it is all reimbursed? I am sure it is just a loophole and I can tell them that I am enrolled in a so called "pro course" and not just getting an additional rating for personal use. someone help me please so I can get this sorted out! __________________ .....i have two speeds, walk and kill

October 10th, 2006, 21:43	#2
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,974	Re: Calling all Aviators!! Call and talk to Mary, she'll help you out. __________________ ALPA Organizing Committee Member SAAB First Officer

October 10th, 2006, 21:54	#3
USMC-SGT Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Posts: 1,173	Re: Calling all Aviators!! Thanks smitty, I actually did call and talk to mary, she was not sure and because of the time change she was sitting at home and not at work. She said I could try tomorrow. I was hoping there was a current or past va student or instructor here that would know the scoop __________________ .....i have two speeds, walk and kill

October 10th, 2006, 23:29	#4
Beast11 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7	Re: Calling all Aviators!! Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but...all of the research I've done tells me you're pretty much SOL when it comes to getting VA reimbursement for PMEL. (I'm also active duty, ready to get out and jump on the flight train in a few months). Still, I'm curious about possible loopholes as well for milking more veteran-earned bennies.

October 10th, 2006, 23:43	#5
USMC-SGT Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Posts: 1,173	Re: Calling all Aviators!! I believe you can be reimbursed for the pmel. The school gave me their VA approved programs info packet that was set up in conjunction with the VA and it has PMEL listed as one of the programs. I know for a fact they do not pay for your initial private but since my initial private is already done this is just an add on rating. I think where we are running into the problem is that the VA is VERY specific that they do not want to and will not just pay for an instrument rating or just a MEL add on etc etc. The only reason they pay for flight training is because it is towards an occupation, so they dont want you to do the instrument unless you are already enrolled in a commercial course as well because obviously with the commercial it can be an occupation as opposed to a private instrument it is just a hobby. That is why I am hoping one of the aviators shows up, i believe manny was and I know there are a few others around here that can tell me the way ari does it, as in the order they go in for the ratings. That would help me figure out what to tell the VA so they pay me. I think I will just have the school enroll me in my commerical multi right away and work on the other ratings at the same time. I dont think the VA cares what order you finish in so long as you are enrolled in a commercial course... but then again if I knew I wouldnt be asking here __________________ .....i have two speeds, walk and kill

October 11th, 2006, 10:11	#6
kailuaboy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CLE Posts: 302	Re: Calling all Aviators!! Here is the way I remember it: I was enrolled in the VA Pro Course at the Aviator. PSEL -NO MONEY PMEL - NO MONEY (ariben got approved after I was well past this point) Instrument MONEY (I was enrolled in both the Instrument and the Commercial MEL at the same time, maybe even the Commercial SEL too) The aviators VA commercial course has you doing your MEL and SEL stuff at the same time. You pretty much have your checkride for MEL one day and SEL the next. Oh and your Commerical SEL is in the Arrow. I believe the Instructor MEL is also approved by the VA for the aviator. It wasnt when I was going through it. When I was there as a student and instructor, they were trying to get the whole Pro course 141. I hope the above helps. Some of my students where VA too. Oh and another thing,.... it takes a hell-of-a long time to get your money back from the VA. It took me 9 months (I was studying for my Initial MEL instructor rating at the time). Pierre is the man to talk to about VA at the aviator. With all due respect though. I dont know if I would call and ask how they do their paperwork though. Your kinda asking how they run their business. Your flight school (if they are VA approved) should be doing all this paperwork and BS for you. They should have past examples on how the VA likes things done. The VA is VERY particular on how paperwork is completed. BTW, congrats on coming home safe and thank you for doing your job. Last time I talked to you, I think you still had 6 months left. __________________ Third Day

October 11th, 2006, 10:32	#7
USMC-SGT Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Posts: 1,173	Re: Calling all Aviators!! You were one of the people I was hoping to hear from, I just wasnt sure if you would see this post or if they were keeping you busy on the brasilia. You are right about talking to Ari, that is a last resort becuase you are correct, I am asking them to help me out by giving my business to another school. My school is supposed to do all of the VA work but they are not very knowledgeable on the subject. They are approved but I think all they have dealt with is the occassional commercial student, no one doing every rating. I think what I will do is just simultaneously enroll in the commercial courses as well because that is what keeps coming up, they want to see me working towards a commercial rating. I belive pmel is approved for VA but I will have to look into it as well. Thanks on the congrats, it is good to be back and with my wife and back in the air. I have been trying to fly around 8 hours a week to get this stuff done, alot of work though working 0530-1630 everyday and then flying, i enjoy the duchess though. hows x-jet treating you? __________________ .....i have two speeds, walk and kill

October 12th, 2006, 16:30	#8
Beechlover Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Flyin with my Sweetie!!! Posts: 265	Re: Calling all Aviators!! I'm currently enrolled in the VA Pro program. I'm getting ready to do my multi (PMEL) add-on, as a matter fact my instructor and I are going to get with Pierre tomorrow to enroll me in the multi portion of training. I'm enrolled in the Commercial Pilot (AMEL) and also the Instrument Rating (AMEL) courses simultaneously. That is how I understand that they do this, through simultaneous enrollment. Some of the VA program is still part 61 though. The CSEL, CFI, and CFII are all part 61. It was explained to me that it is cheaper for me in the long run to do it this way. Strange because the MEI is part 141. Hope this helps, glad to see you made it home okay. Best of Luck! Rudy __________________ Life is Good! Do what you love, love what you do!

October 12th, 2006, 23:46	#10
USMC-SGT Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Posts: 1,173	Re: Calling all Aviators!! I believe it is the order or the "percieved" order. I think my solution will be to be simultaneously enrolled in the CMEL course and just contribute a few hours to it a month, not that it matters much now though because my pmel checkride is in a few days and cmel is next __________________ .....i have two speeds, walk and kill

November 6th, 2006, 16:08	#12
CarolinaAviator1984 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Currently in florida Posts: 20	Re: Calling all Aviators!! i did my ppl at a local fbo before attending the aviator cost me about $8,000 i am not sure how much it cost here but i know it is less then that. also you will have better luck finishing it faster here . just my thought..... oh and side note i am not paid by the school to post positive relpys im actually just a student who personaly does not get along with management but regardless still find it in my heart to tell the truth and that being said you would not be dissapointed in the training you get from the aviator. hope this helps

November 6th, 2006, 16:11	#13
Gonzo Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,765	Re: Calling all Aviators!! But TJ loves you.

November 6th, 2006, 17:11	#14
CarolinaAviator1984 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Currently in florida Posts: 20	Re: Calling all Aviators!! thats because i pay on time

November 6th, 2006, 17:30	#16
Gonzo Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,765	Re: Calling all Aviators!! Send maverick a private message. He should be able to answer both those questions.

November 6th, 2006, 17:32	#17
CarolinaAviator1984 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Currently in florida Posts: 20	Re: Calling all Aviators!! some guys have part time jobs so it can be done as for the housing better make sure you have a car because its a drive to the school from the housing you can do like some of us and get your own place saves some money that way but you will still need a car there is a "shutle" that runs to some of the housing but im not sure how effective it is because i know instructors are still having to pic up students for flights

November 6th, 2006, 17:35	#18
CarolinaAviator1984 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Currently in florida Posts: 20	Re: Calling all Aviators!! there was a thread about the housing im not sure were it went to you can probubly find it but over all the housing is pretty nice expect about six hundred a month for that

November 6th, 2006, 19:41	#22
armyveteran2006 Newbie Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: vero beach, FL Posts: 27	Re: Calling all Aviators!! USMC-SGT and all VA eligible veterans, I am currently receiving benefits from the VA for flight training. The VA will pay 60% of the minimum hours for your training. If you want to become a professional pilot you need to attend a flight school that is certified by the VA and usually it is a school operating under part 141 (not part 61) program. Next you should consider what you are getting for your money at various schools and how much the VA will reimburse at these schools. IT DOES VARY FOR EACH SCHOOL!! I am currently at my second school for aviation. My first school the VA would pay me 16K to 19K. At Aviator the VA pays 20K to 24K. Pay attention to what you get and total costs of programs. I was at well known highly advertised flight school in central Florida where they advertised a price of 63K but, most people walked away paying as much as 90K to 100K only receiving about 250 total hours with about 30 multi. At Aviator I am getting 200 hrs of multi with 15 to 30 hour single. 55 multi hours are solo which I just finished. During those 55 hours I flew from Florida to California to North Carolina back to Florida over about 2 weeks. It was a once in a lifetime experience! I have flow through Atlanta's Airspace, over 11 hours of actual IMC, over the Golden Gate Bridge and Alcatraz, Santa Monica, San Diego, New Orleans, Tucson Arizona, And to North Carolina. I don’t know of any other school in the country that allows a student to do this as part of their program. I have no problems recommending this school to any veterans I meet because I am Paying a lower price than I was at my first school, living in better and cheaper housing, and am going to finish and be hirable faster than any other place that I know. If you have further questions please contact me and I will try and answer them. I don’t believe in BS and I will be honest about my experiences and those of others that I know at other schools as students or instructors. Army Veteran

November 6th, 2006, 19:49	#23
CarolinaAviator1984 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Currently in florida Posts: 20	Re: Calling all Aviators!! army vet where in nc did you fly to i am from nc and i flew their when i was doing my time building i wish i could have flown to more places but it was still nice to get out of florida for a few days.

November 6th, 2006, 20:02	#24
armyveteran2006 Newbie Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: vero beach, FL Posts: 27	Re: Calling all Aviators!! I flew from RYY Cobb-Mcullam Airport in Atlanta GA to Raleigh-Durham International (RDU) in North Carolina. I had a great time in UNC Chapell-Hill NC. Where are you from and where are you now?

November 6th, 2006, 21:12	#25
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,578	Re: Calling all Aviators!! "over 11 hours of actual IMC" You didn't log any of that actual when you were safety pilot, did ya?

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