Aviators Fleet Condition

[ifly]

Hello,

I am considering Aviators Multi Instrument rating w/100hrs time building program. I know this questions has been asked before but I can not find the old threads.

Can anyone tell me the current conditions of Aviators fleet? I am well aware they are heavily used but appear to be maintained OK. The pics one their website look nice. Of course, that does not mean the majority of their fleet is in the same condition.

• Does the radar work as they state?
• Any issues in flight?
• Anyone run into significant delays due to down planes?

I want to get this done in 30 days. I have logged 25hrs towards my instrument already.

Thank you!

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by ifly

Can anyone tell me the current conditions of Aviators fleet? I am well aware they are heavily used but appear to be maintained OK. The pics one their website look nice. Of course, that does not mean the majority of their fleet is in the same condition.

the condition of the fleet runs the spectrum from fantastic ( the five planes with working for 430s) to almost a deathtrap with unusual flight characteristics.

Originally Posted by ifly

Does the radar work as they state?

None of the weather radars actually work. They light up and look pretty but they don't do their job. And the one plane with a strike scope does not work either.

Originally Posted by ifly

Any issues in flight?

Any aircraft that is flown this much will occasionally have issues in flight nothing major more of a nuisance.

Originally Posted by ifly

Anyone run into significant delays due to down planes?[/list]I want to get this done in 30 days. I have logged 25hrs towards my instrument already.

Planes will go down and usually they will go down in groups. Weather it causes you A delay has more to do with your instructor and how you feel about certain planes. I only flew certain planes and would sometimes cancel a flight if one of those planes was not up even though there were other planes to take. Certain planes had flight characteristics I simply do not care for.

[CommPilot76]

(The condition of the fleet runs the spectrum from fantastic (the five planes with working for 430s) to almost a deathtrap with unusual flight characteristics.)

All of the Airplanes at Aviator work just fine. Yes they all have their little quarks, but so does any airplane that is flown that much.

(None of the weather radars actually work. They light up and look pretty but they don't do their job. And the one plane with a strike scope does not work either.)

Actually I have flown a few of the airplanes that have working radar and as I understand it, they can not pass the 100 hour inspection in they do not work, Maybe you need to ask the Owner Mike or the Chief Pilot Pierre how to use them.

(Planes will go down and usually they will go down in groups. Weather it causes you a delay has more to do with your instructor and how you feel about certain planes. I only flew certain planes and would sometimes cancel a flight if one of those planes was not up even though there were other planes to take. Certain planes had flight characteristics I simply do not care for.)

Yes I will admit there are times the planes go down in groups, mainly due to the 100 inspection considering that all of the duchesses get flown enough that they go down every three weeks for 100 inspection, and yes they all do have their own flight characteristics, but then again they do fly 24 7, I personally think that it makes a better pilot learning all of the different characteristics that an airplane can have.

[greaper007]

Personally I just don't go into actual if there is a chance of embedded thunderstorms in the area. Center does a pretty decent job of keeping us out of the weather. However, it's not center's responsibility to keep us out nasty weather. You'll find that they don't during high workloads. That's just my personal minimum.

Thunderstorm season is hopefully coming to a close down here, so this shouldn't be a huge concern for you. I'm assuming that you're doing the instrument part 61 and you have all the cross country time done. If so and you're knowledge is in order you should be able to get done pretty quickly. There's a kid here right now doing the whole program in 90 days that hasn't had any problems yet.

The planes really are pretty decent. Like gonzo said, all the planes with 430's have updated databases, so you can file /G. Beyond that, every single plane has an HSI. I'd take an HSI over GPS anyday. If you get picky and only want to fly a couple planes you might run into delays. However, if you stay flexible you won't have major problems getting to fly.

During my tenure here I haven't had any real problems with the planes. Everyone has the planes that are their favorites. Just like any flight school, some are faster than others. I tend to fly some of the older planes that Gonzo doesn't like, just because they're pretty easy to get the day before a flight.

I would reccomend the time building program to anyone. There's nothing wrong with the planes. Just remember to do a thorough pre-flight, and to respect your personal minimums. You'll get a quick hundred hours of mult-time in your log book and have a lot of fun doing it (you'll also save thousands doing it here as opposed to an FBO).

[greaper007]

How's the Commercial Single coming Gonzo? I'm going to have to come up to visit you one of these weekends.

[Gonzorox]

I flew those planes over a 1000 hours... none of them are "deathtraps"!

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by CommPilot76

Actually I have flown a few of the airplanes that have working radar and as I understand it, they can not pass the 100 hour inspection in they do not work, Maybe you need to ask the Owner Mike or the Chief Pilot Pierre how to use them.

It is not a required piece of equipment so it just has to be labeled inoperative to past hundred hour inspection much like all the EGT gauges and all but one autopilot.

Originally Posted by Gonzorox

I flew those planes over a 1000 hours... none of them are "deathtraps"!

Maybe I over exaggerated, let me rephrase my comment, there are four planes they either A) have completely unnatural flying characteristics doing maneuvers compared to every other plane in the fleet. B) Have a suspect electronics, or a combination of both. Having said that one of the planes with suspect electronics and it also happens to fly a little funny is a great VFR cross-country plane because of the fuel burned.

Originally Posted by greaper007

How's the Commercial Single coming Gonzo? I'm going to have to come up to visit you one of these weekends.

Hopefully going to start on it this week. Come on I have five more months to finish a single commercial and CFI.

[Florida_Flyer]

Gonzo, has it about right ifly; there are some real good planes at the school. I wouldn't say that it's fair to call any of the planes deathtraps but some of them kinda worry me. Many of them are rebuilt insurance write offs (44T, 0SU, 28Y for sure) and might not have been put back together right. 65U buffets like crazy if you stall or steep turn it and 30K has an exagerated overbanking tendancy in steep turns. Most of the planes are approaching the end of their life which is a major league headache for the schools owner. The WX radar illuminates but doesn't work. They should be placarded inop, but..... As for the idea that Mike can explain how the radar works, I doubt it. When was the last time anyone saw him flying one his planes? And if the WX radar doesn't work, why advertise that it does?

Your time scale is too tight ifly. I'd say your chances of getting done in 30 days are about 40-50%. Allow another 10-15 days to make sure. Overall I'd say getting your 100 multi and instrument at the Aviator is a smart move ifly. But remember, for the price you're paying it's the V6 Mustang, you're getting not the V8.

[Catherine]

I've flown and used both the radars and the strike finder (and yes, it definitely worked well that evening!!!), although I've not used the radars in every aircraft, I have seen at least one of them definitely work...not much to see in clear air though when we turned them on then to see how they worked in the others though as during a lot of my timebuilding I had planes that didn't have them onboard when we encountered weather.

Although there are a couple of planes that I don't enjoy flying as much as a couple of the others (we all have favorites and I have mine ), there isn't one plane here that I've done maneuvers in that I felt responded really different from all of the others although one does start buffeting some earlier than the others during slow flight. When I first started flying the Duchess it felt like the planes all flew very differently but now I have nearly 190 hours in them and I don't feel like they fly that differently. Some have a little more power than others or climb a bit better or something along those lines, but nothing really major and nothing at all close to a deathtrap. With a thorough preflight (would you do any other kind?) I'd take any of them on a trip or to do maneuvers (and on occasion I have when the plane I was scheduled in went down unexpectedly or was needed for a checkride or something).

[Queboat]

When I was at the aviator all the people that claimed the radars didnt work, couldn't explain how to use the tilt.

[Florida_Flyer]

Tilt? Gotta compromise between pointing the antenna too far up, above the freezing level or too far down, at the ground. To far up and you get no returns and too far down you just get ground clutter. It's where the moisture is that you need to be pointing the thing. Why don't you educate us Queboat, and tell us how you use it? Somehow though, I don't think you're going to convince me to get into actual with thunderstorms around!

[JBUCREW]

When I was working in the airlines many pilots would write up the WX radar and I can say more then half the times, the crew just didnt know how to use the radar or there was a tilt problem. It really isnt anybody's fault because no one really takes the time to train pilots on the proper use of WX radar!

[Queboat]

Originally Posted by Florida_Flyer

Tilt? Gotta compromise between pointing the antenna too far up, above the freezing level or too far down, at the ground. To far up and you get no returns and too far down you just get ground clutter. It's where the moisture is that you need to be pointing the thing. Why don't you educate us Queboat, and tell us how you use it? Somehow though, I don't think you're going to convince me to get into actual with thunderstorms around!

if you not going into actual near thunderstorms just quit flying now. the first step is to tilt the radar down so that the ground clutter ends at the mileage marker on the screen that agrees with your altitude above the ground. ex. 10,000 ft AGL ground clutter will end at 10 miles. then simply tilt it up 4 degrees. this is a generic trick but will work. best bet would be reading the manual for the specific radar. modern radars just do this for you.

[greaper007]

Que, you have a point with the tilt. However, it appears that most of the plane's radar are no longer working. Besides, we're talking about very old apple II style wx radar here. They light up occasionally but don't give very pertinent information beyond that. With that in mind I don't go into actual when there are thunderstorms in the area, unless I have decent wx radar on board.

[ifly]

Thank you everyone for the feedback on the planes. I am still evaluatings things and appreciate the feedback. Overall it seems most are happy with their experiences at Aviator.