Westwind was great to me!

[supertool]

I know this may come as a shock to all you Westwind haters out there but I LOVE the place!!! It was good to me. I started there with zero time, finished the program, worked there, and moved on, in my opinion, to one of the better regionals.

Before I decided on Westwind I looked at a handful of schools. Flight Safety interested me but I was quickly turned off when the recruiter was arrogant with me on the phone. I really wanted to stay out west so I ended up enrolling at Pan Am, then pulled out(before I started) when I heard some things I didn't like. A whole year went by before I came to Westwind in late 2003 and I couldn't be happier with my decision. I'm not going to sit here and bad mouth other schools, nor am I going to make up stories about Westwind. I'm just here to give my story....if anyone cares.

I completed the program in just over a year. I know the school says 9 months but that is not standard. There have been some that did complete it in that time and but were sharper than the average joe. When I started instructing it was slow for about two months and then picked up like gangbusters. I was usually averaging about 80 hours per month flying and about 40 hrs ground time per month. After about seven months instructing I was promoted to Check Airman and started doing stage checks along with teaching my own students. I never intentionally failed anyone. At that time we had a lot of students and it seemed most were happy and the gereral mood was good.

I always had the intention of getting my time and then getting out asap, but I started getting nervous about applying to the regionals and delayed my application process until I narrowed it down to the few places I wanted to work. People used to joke around with me all the time and call me a "lifer" because I didn't leave as soon as I could. I never applied at mesa or lakes because it wasn't for me. I only applied at two regionals(2 of the good ones in my opinion) and got hired at the one I really wanted.....still haven't heard back from the other. This was about six months ago. I had about 1150TT and 350 multi when I left. I have no regrets whatsoever!

Westwind was good to me as a student and kept me extremely busy as a CFI. I got my students done quickly and was one of the more requested CFI's. This place it not the money pit people make it out to be and I honestly don't think their reputation is as bad as some of you make it out to be. I has a great time and would reccommend it to all. And I never milked a student, not one..........and they never stole my money!

[meritflyer]

I am not going to bad mouth WSA either since they do have a very high end training program. But they have lowered the bar - at one point from my understanding from an inside source who was a long time CFI, they were in talks with Gulfstream. They are in the business of making money and its a little shady, IMO, that they feed off new, clueless pilots.

They do rape you for every penny, in my opinion. I saw new students complaining that they bring a huge box of books in the first day of class and make you pick out the ones you dont need... as if you'd know as a new pilot. Then they charge you $1000+ for them and dont allow you to return them once you realize 50% of them including "Job Hunting for Pilots". This was one of many prime examples of gouging your pocket book I heard from CFIs that worked there and still work there along with students.

CFIs there also have blurted that some check airman intentionally give extra long stage checks. It makes sense right? More ground hours = more cash for the CFI. Plus, I watched guys fail for reasons that the guy who failed them couldnt explain... ie stupid stuff.

No doubts academically it a top tier school. Unfortunately the rap they have is that it comes with a hefty and somewhat unnecessary price.

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by supertool

I know this may come as a shock to all you Westwind haters out there but I LOVE the place!!! It was good to me. I started there with zero time, finished the program, worked there, and moved on, in my opinion, to one of the better regionals.

Before I decided on Westwind I looked at a handful of schools. Flight Safety interested me but I was quickly turned off when the recruiter was arrogant with me on the phone. I really wanted to stay out west so I ended up enrolling at Pan Am, then pulled out(before I started) when I heard some things I didn't like. A whole year went by before I came to Westwind in late 2003 and I couldn't be happier with my decision. I'm not going to sit here and bad mouth other schools, nor am I going to make up stories about Westwind. I'm just here to give my story....if anyone cares.

I completed the program in just over a year. I know the school says 9 months but that is not standard. There have been some that did complete it in that time and but were sharper than the average joe. When I started instructing it was slow for about two months and then picked up like gangbusters. I was usually averaging about 80 hours per month flying and about 40 hrs ground time per month. After about seven months instructing I was promoted to Check Airman and started doing stage checks along with teaching my own students. I never intentionally failed anyone. At that time we had a lot of students and it seemed most were happy and the gereral mood was good.

I always had the intention of getting my time and then getting out asap, but I started getting nervous about applying to the regionals and delayed my application process until I narrowed it down to the few places I wanted to work. People used to joke around with me all the time and call me a "lifer" because I didn't leave as soon as I could. I never applied at mesa or lakes because it wasn't for me. I only applied at two regionals(2 of the good ones in my opinion) and got hired at the one I really wanted.....still haven't heard back from the other. This was about six months ago. I had about 1150TT and 350 multi when I left. I have no regrets whatsoever!

Westwind was good to me as a student and kept me extremely busy as a CFI. I got my students done quickly and was one of the more requested CFI's. This place it not the money pit people make it out to be and I honestly don't think their reputation is as bad as some of you make it out to be. I has a great time and would reccommend it to all. And I never milked a student, not one..........and they never stole my money!

Nice story. Too bad it is complete BS.

A) You through out the Flight Safety card...

and

B) Flight Safety DOES NOT HAVE A RECRUITER PERIOD.

When you call FlightSafety you speak with the students that work in the maketing department. Great marketing actually. You speak directly with the students that are going through the program. Happy students.....

Maybe Westwind should try that. Oh that's right, you had Jennifer that would try to throw Pan-Am under the bus when the "prospective student" would ask about them. Then it was off to Jerry Dilks office for his tall tales...

Seriously, I was standing right outside Jennifers office when this guy and his son were talking with her. All she could do is try to throw Pan-Am under the bus knowing they were going there for a tour next....

Marketing 101.... NEVER, throw your competition under the bus when you are being shopped. It throws BS flags immediatley and makes your institution look even worse...

Nice story though. I particulary like the way you repeat yourself about NOT milking or purposley failing students. Yep, more flags.

Look, we all know that Westwind is on it's last legs. Purposley jumping on this long time stagnant forum and trying to resurect it will not help pull numbers into the school.

I smell Jim Pitman...

ILS

[supertool]

Actually my story is not BS, retard. And once again: I'M NOT JIM PITMAN!!!!!! Get over yourself CLR4ILS. You're not that cool! Just because someone(me) had a good time there doesn't mean its BS. I'll even buy you a beer and prove to you I'm not full of s*^t. Will you get it then?

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by supertool

Actually my story is not BS, retard. And once again: I'M NOT JIM PITMAN!!!!!! Get over yourself CLR4ILS. You're not that cool! Just because someone(me) had a good time there doesn't mean its BS. I'll even buy you a beer and prove to you I'm not full of s*^t. Will you get it then?

You sure about the beer. I don't know about mixing good and bad experiences with alcohol.

Seriously.... If you are legit and had a good experience, then I say that's great. Good to hear...

ILS

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by CLR4ILS

Nice story. Too bad it is complete BS.

A) You through out the Flight Safety card...

and

B) Flight Safety DOES NOT HAVE A RECRUITER PERIOD.

When you call FlightSafety you speak with the students that work in the maketing department. Great marketing actually. You speak directly with the students that are going through the program. Happy students.....

Maybe Westwind should try that. Oh that's right, you had Jennifer that would try to throw Pan-Am under the bus when the "prospective student" would ask about them. Then it was off to Jerry Dilks office for his tall tales...

Seriously, I was standing right outside Jennifers office when this guy and his son were talking with her. All she could do is try to throw Pan-Am under the bus knowing they were going there for a tour next....

Marketing 101.... NEVER, throw your competition under the bus when you are being shopped. It throws BS flags immediatley and makes your institution look even worse...

Nice story though. I particulary like the way you repeat yourself about NOT milking or purposley failing students. Yep, more flags.

Look, we all know that Westwind is on it's last legs. Purposley jumping on this long time stagnant forum and trying to resurect it will not help pull numbers into the school.

I smell Jim Pitman...

ILS

Its unfortunate but you speak the truth. I saw so many poor guys/gals have to take more and more loans out. The assumption that they have you pay as you go, which the some students told me, is so you lose track of your finances.

I did have a good experience there but I couldnt believe what the CFIs and current students told me in such a short period of time.

[supertool]

You sure about the beer. I don't know about mixing good and bad experiences with alcohol.

Seriously.... If you are legit and had a good experience, then I say that's great. Good to hear...

ILS

I'm serious. And I'm not trying to bring prople to the school. Its just hard seeing something you care about being kicked around like a $2 hooker. I was just trying to put a different opinion into the mix.

Ever since Key Bank pulled out the school has gotten slimmer. It sucks and I really do think if they find some other financing things will pick up.

[pkrgod]

Originally Posted by supertool

I'm serious. And I'm not trying to bring prople to the school. Its just hard seeing something you care about being kicked around like a $2 hooker. I was just trying to put a different opinion into the mix.

Ever since Key Bank pulled out the school has gotten slimmer. It sucks and I really do think if they find some other financing things will pick up.

I thought this post sounded like a marketing scheme myself. Come on, the guys name is super "tooL!"

[supertool]

I thought this post sounded like a marketing scheme myself. Come on, the guys name is super "tooL!"

Pardon me for having a sense of humor with regards to my name. Obviously its a-okay if someone writes something positive about pan am, fsa, atp, skymates...etc, but how dare somene anyone have something to positive to say about westwind. Am I right?

All I'm saying is I liked it there and it helped me move on with my career. I think I made a good decision.

[Champcar]

This is worse than the bitching that goes on at Riddle, grow up. Airliners.net or FI.com will be more than happy to listen to your bitching on what flight school is better bs. But here you will just be laughed at and called a loser.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Champcar

This is worse than the bitching that goes on at Riddle, grow up. Airliners.net or FI.com will be more than happy to listen to your bitching on what flight school is better bs. But here you will just be laughed at and called a loser.

LOSER!!

[250blue]

[quote=meritflyer]Its unfortunate but you speak the truth. I saw so many poor guys/gals have to take more and more loans out. The assumption that they have you pay as you go, which the some students told me, is so you lose track of your finances. QUOTE]

Are you kidding me? If you lose track of your finances then that is a personal problem and you certainly don't need to be in control of passenger carrying (or any other) type of aircraft. I always knew how much I had spent on my flight training and was never milked by anyone. I had a similar experience to the first poster here and it got me a great job (and believe me- I never "drank the cool-aid" just went in and got it done). I have a hard time with the "blame game", If these students are complaining about being "milked" then who is the idiot for staying around. Seriously, take responsibility for your own flight training. (and CLR4ILS I know you moved on, so no need to chime in )

[meritflyer]

"Are you kidding me? If you lose track of your finances then that is a personal problem and you certainly don't need to be in control of passenger carrying (or any other) type of aircraft"

Yeah. You're right. People who cant keep their check book balanced definately have no place in aviation...

[turbinesurgeon]

Originally Posted by supertool

I'm serious. And I'm not trying to bring prople to the school. Its just hard seeing something you care about being kicked around like a $2 hooker. I was just trying to put a different opinion into the mix.

Ever since Key Bank pulled out the school has gotten slimmer. It sucks and I really do think if they find some other financing things will pick up.

I think WSA is more like a $2 hooker but you pay $100,000

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by 250blue

(and CLR4ILS I know you moved on, so no need to chime in )

C'mon, I wanna play....


Seriously though, when someone gets screwed at ANY company, if they do not leave then it is their own fault. I would expect any and all of you to stand your ground for your dollar and the service you are paying for.....

This is why I shop stores like Nordstroms and Home Depot. No questions asked. They just take care of you, period. Flight schools should not be any different....

My business for example, is based solely off of customer service and referrals... If I don't take care of the client, I'm done....


ILS

[CRJ279]

Originally Posted by CLR4ILS

C'mon, I wanna play....


Seriously though, when someone gets screwed at ANY company, if they do not leave then it is their own fault. I would expect any and all of you to stand your ground for your dollar and the service you are paying for.....

This is why I shop stores like Nordstroms and Home Depot. No questions asked. They just take care of you, period. Flight schools should not be any different....

My business for example, is based solely off of customer service and referrals... If I don't take care of the client, I'm done....


ILS

I agree 100%, if you are not getting what you want out of a service provider, find a new one. Exactly the same goes for flight training. Change CFI's switch schools do what ever you need to do until you are happy, wherever that may be.

[CRJ279]

Originally Posted by turbinesurgeon

I think WSA is more like a $2 hooker but you pay $100,000

That price makes WSA a "high priced escort"

[NewbieAirlinePilot]

Originally Posted by CRJ279

That price makes WSA a "high priced escort"

Hope you at least left with a smile of your face for that much

[Spacepodlife]

Originally Posted by supertool

Westwind was good to me as a student and kept me extremely busy as a CFI. I got my students done quickly and was one of the more requested CFI's.

I agree with supertool. I think that the quality of instruction mostly depends on your own instructor. I was lucky enough to have excellent instuctors at Westwind and that was because I requested them. I don't know about these days as I left Phoenix more than two years ago, but I received good quality training at Westwind. Although I have to confess I went over budget despite being one of their best students, and I never liked the progress check system (not required under part 61).

[250blue]

Originally Posted by Spacepodlife

...I never liked the progress check system (not required under part 61).

I agree that WW was a good place to be when I was there. I didn't mind the progress checks in general as I think they find some "holes" that an instructor flying everyday with the student may not uncover. However, I thought there were too many checks (could do 1 or 2 at the most per rating), and that some of the check airmen took them well above and beyond what they were supposed to accomplish.

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by 250blue

I agree that WW was a good place to be when I was there. I didn't mind the progress checks in general as I think they find some "holes" that an instructor flying everyday with the student may not uncover. However, I thought there were too many checks (could do 1 or 2 at the most per rating), and that some of the check airmen took them well above and beyond what they were supposed to accomplish.

The main problem is that they do not have quality training to get the students past their rediculous number of stage checks.

I remember the check pilot (if you want to call him that) asking me the most off the wall questions during the oral portion of the stage check. I managed to get through his off the topic questions but asked him....... where is that in the flight instructor PTS? He said, it's not. I said, stick to the PTS, this isn't a 121 ride. Nothing they did at Westwind made sense. Jim Pitman just tried to make up his own curriculum, which was a disaster waiting to happen in my eyes.

I think the effort was there, he just lacked the experience to be a Cheif pilot...

ILS

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by CLR4ILS

Jim Pitman just tried to make up his own curriculum, which was a disaster waiting to happen in my eyes.

I think the effort was there, he just lacked the experience to be a Cheif pilot...

ILS

I met the guy a couple of times and have to say that he tried to pull some crap over on me. What a tool.

[ORDinary]

Originally Posted by turbinesurgeon

I think WSA is more like a $2 hooker but you pay $100,000

I think that was probably the case for a few people I met there, but I went through the program at the cost they quoted and almost in the same amount of time. One other guy who started with me finished even quicker and also on budget. Another guy I knew there wound up not being able to finish his CFI after spending over $100,000. So who knows. I studied a lot, and now I'm at a regional, so I have no complaints (about Westwind). I'm not Jim Pitman, or Wally Z, nor would I defend their anal retentiveness. Maybe I got lucky with the instructors and check airmen I had, but it is possible to make it at Westwind. Or at least it was when I finished up there in '04.

[turbinesurgeon]

Originally Posted by ORDinary

I think that was probably the case for a few people I met there, but I went through the program at the cost they quoted and almost in the same amount of time. One other guy who started with me finished even quicker and also on budget. Another guy I knew there wound up not being able to finish his CFI after spending over $100,000. So who knows. I studied a lot, and now I'm at a regional, so I have no complaints (about Westwind). I'm not Jim Pitman, or Wally Z, nor would I defend their anal retentiveness. Maybe I got lucky with the instructors and check airmen I had, but it is possible to make it at Westwind. Or at least it was when I finished up there in '04.

I didn't have any problems with the instructors. I had a few good ones and a few not so good ones which is the norm for most flight schools. The problem is there is no accountability and that is why some people finish at $100,000. Westwind doesn't care that students go way over budget because thats just more money in their pocket. The sad part is when I was flight instructing at another school I would get a lot of ex Westwind students who were treated this way. We were accountable for keeping students on budget and on track for there training needs. I fly for a very good airline now, but I will not give WW any credit for that, I will give the good flight instuctors that trained me credit but not WW. I just think that WW has very poor bussiness practices.

[Chopshop]

Originally Posted by turbinesurgeon

I didn't have any problems with the instructors. I had a few good ones and a few not so good ones which is the norm for most flight schools. The problem is there is no accountability and that is why some people finish at $100,000. Westwind doesn't care that students go way over budget because thats just more money in their pocket. The sad part is when I was flight instructing at another school I would get a lot of ex Westwind students who were treated this way. We were accountable for keeping students on budget and on track for there training needs. I fly for a very good airline now, but I will not give WW any credit for that, I will give the good flight instuctors that trained me credit but not WW. I just think that WW has very poor bussiness practices.

Where are you at now turbinesurgeon. I think we were in the same private groundschool.