Going next month

supra1998tt · July 17th, 2006, 17:03

Hi i am thinking of going to ari ben to attend the school and want to know what peoplewho have attended the school think? also about how many hours do the instructors get a month I have prv and instrument. im continuing from there. thanks

hattrick · July 17th, 2006, 22:25

hah im going to be the first to respond take that guys. ok i went there a couple years ago and i have to say i would do it all again if i had to. i absolutely hated florida but the style of training was just what i wanted. the quality was excellenty as well. so even with hating florida id still go back there again

ShoreFly · July 18th, 2006, 00:57

While I got what I wanted out of attending this school in 2004-5, I'll have to say that I would not go there again.

I personally found that the school and it's Part 141/VA program was not administered professionally, and this was due to several factors:

- Minimally structured ground training (Schedule or content)
- Zero safety program (In regards to aircraft mx or incident reporting)
- Ineffective standardization of instructors (Some standards are taught by the Chief Pilot, but I found were rarely followed by my CFIs)
- Horrible first-time pass rate for initial CFI rating (If the training evolved to meet the needs of the student, this wouldn't be an issue)

I've had the opportunity to teach at other schools, including civilian FBO's and military-run Aero Clubs after instructing at Ari-Ben. The experience has opened my eyes as to what else is out there. I have no reason to bash this school on a personal level, however if you have any experience with an efficiently-run business, structured military service, or professional flight department, and enjoy the benefits of those, then you may have difficulty adapting to the atmosphere at this school.

If you can live without those things, and you're just looking for the cheap way to get ratings and hours, then this place might be for you.

Florida_Flyer · July 18th, 2006, 11:25

I agree with most of what you say ShoreFly, but not all of it. I think that you are making it sound like there is a problem with the quality of training at the Aviator. I don't think so. There is structure to the courses, thanks to the Chief Pilots, 141 courses. If the CFI's are doing what they should be doing (following the course) then standarization should be occuring. As for the low pass on the initial MEI rating that's to do with the #########s at the FAA. They told me at the FSDO, that going MEI first ain't the way to do it. They are pressuring the examiners and their own guys to cut the passes to "encourage" guys to go CFI first. Yeah, that's pointless, I know, but that's the way these Fed, dudes think.

Safety and MX is lousy, always has been and with the current crew, always will be. Supra1998tt, you asked about the hours CFI's fly. The answer would be either too much or not enough, averaging out at not enough over time. Read my earlier posts on the Aviator as most of it's still relevant. I don't want to drag up this old argument too much as things are going well for me right now. Listen Supra, look at four or five schools. Talk to Aviator, ATP, Skymates, Spartan and that place in Macon, GA (Southeastern I think). The Aviator is worth considering but things don't always run as smooth as you'd like. Let us know what you decide either way.

maverick2 · July 18th, 2006, 13:38

Supra,

I have to chime in on this. Shorefly, hattrick, and FloridaFlyer attended this school a couple of years ago, and the way the school ran at that time is not the way the school runs now. I have been here for nearly a year now and I haven't encountered any of the problems that were mentioned above. Since I did the VA 141 program at the school, I never had to attend the ground class. However from what I have heard from students who attended the instrument ground class they liked it and it was informative. Currently, the MEI ground class instructor right now is the Chief Pilot and I hear nothing but good things from the class. The MX guys work their butts off to get the planes airworthy whenever they are squawked. The other day I had a plane that had a bad tire and the mx guys came right out and changed it in less than fifteen minutes. According to the NTSB 830 definition of incidents, there haven't been any incidents here that needs to be reported since I have been here. I dont know what the standardization is for the flight instructors back in the day, but nowadays the instructors have to be checked out by the Chief pilot on instrument and private/commercial maneuvers before being able to receive students. Before the private multi checkride and three stage checks for the instrument course, the students have to fly with the Chief Pilot (CP). Trust me the Chief pilot will know how the instructors are teaching the students just by observing and questioning the student during the flight. After the flight, the CP will give a postflight briefing to the student and then a long briefing to the instructor if the students make a lot of bad mistakes, and I dont think any instructors like that long briefing from the CP so they will teach the students the right way. I dont know if it was like this couple of years ago. Orlando FSDO and the DPEs holds their standards very high due to the tremendous amount of flight training here in Florida (Flight Safety, Embry Riddle, Florida Institiute of Technology, Paris Air, etc...) and Orlando as far as I know is the only FSDO that offers the Enhanced Safety Program for current CFIs and upcoming new ones. Therefore, the standards are high and the initial CFI is the MEI, therefore that checkride is really difficult but I almost passed first time except for the hard landing. If you compare the Aviators initial CFI course and the ATPs CFI course, the ATPs is faster and gets the job done to the checkride, Aviator's you need to know everything in the MEI PTS and know it well, but it takes longer. However, in the long run, the knowledge is retained much longer than ATPs where you will have a massive brain dump unless you start instructing right away. Instructors here can range from 50 to 100 per month depending how hard they work. Overall, I think the Aviator is a good school, but I think you should go visit all the other schools before making a decision. That way, when you have all the info and made the decision, you know what you are getting into and dont have to look back, so you can give your 100 percent. Good luck. Feel free to ask any questions.

Florida_Flyer · July 18th, 2006, 14:36

......arguing a good case there Maverick. Next you'll have us convinced that Fort Pierce is a great place to live. Well done on the MEI, by the way. Great that we can talk about the +'s and -'s of the Aviator, without it turning into a warzone!

maverick2 · July 18th, 2006, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Flyer

......arguing a good case there Maverick. Next you'll have us convinced that Fort Pierce is a great place to live. Well done on the MEI, by the way. Great that we can talk about the +'s and -'s of the Aviator, without it turning into a warzone!

Fort Pierce is a great place to live compared to Fallujah, Iraq. Thanks for the congrats. And I am glad that we can debate about the pluses and minuses like civilized gentlemen, but I am sorry I never got your name. Would you mind PMing me stating your name?

Florida_Flyer · July 18th, 2006, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverick2

Fort Pierce is a great place to live compared to Fallujah, Iraq.

......like I say, he's persuasive.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverick2

Would you mind PMing me stating your name?

.....but not THAT persuasive.

supra1998tt · July 18th, 2006, 16:40

WEll im currently attending delta connections i did my research and its either tha or I stay at dca so i just wanted to know how the school was

ShoreFly · July 19th, 2006, 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverick2

Fort Pierce is a great place to live compared to Fallujah, Iraq.

What dummy plans on flight training in Fallujah?
What is the current first-time pass rate on the initial CFI?

Catherine · July 19th, 2006, 10:29

While I certainly can't comment on the Part 141 stuff outside of the Multi-Private and Instrument stuff, I can say that both of those programs here worked extremely well for me. Even considering finding the traffic pattern full when you need to do patterns and every other little thing that goes on, I finished those two within an hour of flight time of the recommended for each. My first instructor Chris breezed me through the rest of my single private which I finished before I went home for Christmas last year and were it not for a week of low ceilings, rain and wind last year during that time I would probably have gone home with my multi-private then as well. I finished my commercial multi under 61 and took the checkride at 250.2 total hours. Sure, planes go down and maybe you don't fly one day....but that can happen anywhere. Is Fort Pierce a great place to live? Frankly I don't mind it...it's not really that different (it is flat!) from where I lived back in Tennessee including the availability of night life, things to do, etc. I've had a very positive and good experience here so far and I'm looking forward to instructing here once I finish.

I think the pass rate is pretty decent on it, probably not much different than other checkrides here from what I've seen lately. You have to take into account that people get nervous or feel pressured with the examiner around and sometimes forget to do things they normally always do or do things they normally wouldn't do and end up failing. I can't give you an exact percentage as I've not calculated it, though.

The instrument ground school for me being really hyped up on doing the instrument section, I'd already read and understood most things before I got to class (and practiced them in Flight Sim), but it did help to reinforce things that I'd read and clarified a lot of little details and gave me some good tips and advice on the actual flying.

Based on what I had read and heard about the school before I got here and with what I'd experienced at the FBO back home, I am more than satisfied to have spent my money here and gotten a strong education in becoming a pilot and be doing so as quickly as I am. I don't regret coming here in any way nor for choosing this school over any other that I researched beforehand.

supra1998tt · July 19th, 2006, 14:58

OH and also I have a loan already but i was wondering if for ari ben I can still apply for fafsa if theyd give me any thing

Catherine · July 19th, 2006, 17:59

I'd check with the school on it and see what they have to say directly, probably you'd want to talk with Judy.

Queboat · July 22nd, 2006, 11:17

Seems things have changed tons. When I was going through the pass rate at the fsdo was 100%. The aviator is a place for people who don't need structure. If you do well studying alone and don't need to be led the entire way you will like the aviator. It worked for me and many others. Back when it cost $25,000 I finished the entire course and still had $2,000 left over. I think the fact that you have to be a "go-getter" help tons when you entire the real world of aviation. What I mean by real world is the level after being a CFI. You think some 135/121/corp department is going to hold your hand and guide you through? Not likely. Ground school at the next level is like drinking from a fire hose. Good luck to all.

kailuaboy · July 22nd, 2006, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queboat

Seems things have changed tons. When I was going through the pass rate at the fsdo was 100%. The aviator is a place for people who don't need structure. If you do well studying alone and don't need to be led the entire way you will like the aviator. It worked for me and many others. Back when it cost $25,000 I finished the entire course and still had $2,000 left over. I think the fact that you have to be a "go-getter" help tons when you entire the real world of aviation. What I mean by real world is the level after being a CFI. You think some 135/121/corp department is going to hold your hand and guide you through? Not likely. Ground school at the next level is like drinking from a fire hose. Good luck to all.

Take note everyone, Quinn here was the best flight instructor when I was there. I just wish I would have been more motivated to actually study.

Hows your new job? Flyin the Falcon huh?

Queboat · July 23rd, 2006, 10:16

falcon is sweet!!! lear class in august, not sure if i'm going to be in it. I hope so, i tend to like climbing out at 10,000ft a minute.

July 17th, 2006, 17:03	#1
supra1998tt Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 68	Going next month Hi i am thinking of going to ari ben to attend the school and want to know what peoplewho have attended the school think? also about how many hours do the instructors get a month I have prv and instrument. im continuing from there. thanks

July 17th, 2006, 22:25	#2
hattrick Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: farther north than the rest of you Posts: 317	Re: Going next month hah im going to be the first to respond take that guys. ok i went there a couple years ago and i have to say i would do it all again if i had to. i absolutely hated florida but the style of training was just what i wanted. the quality was excellenty as well. so even with hating florida id still go back there again __________________ from a student following a rather rough, well for lack of a better term landing: "but when i crash its on centerline."

July 18th, 2006, 00:57	#3
ShoreFly Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: EWR Posts: 164	Re: Going next month While I got what I wanted out of attending this school in 2004-5, I'll have to say that I would not go there again. I personally found that the school and it's Part 141/VA program was not administered professionally, and this was due to several factors: - Minimally structured ground training (Schedule or content) - Zero safety program (In regards to aircraft mx or incident reporting) - Ineffective standardization of instructors (Some standards are taught by the Chief Pilot, but I found were rarely followed by my CFIs) - Horrible first-time pass rate for initial CFI rating (If the training evolved to meet the needs of the student, this wouldn't be an issue) I've had the opportunity to teach at other schools, including civilian FBO's and military-run Aero Clubs after instructing at Ari-Ben. The experience has opened my eyes as to what else is out there. I have no reason to bash this school on a personal level, however if you have any experience with an efficiently-run business, structured military service, or professional flight department, and enjoy the benefits of those, then you may have difficulty adapting to the atmosphere at this school. If you can live without those things, and you're just looking for the cheap way to get ratings and hours, then this place might be for you.

July 18th, 2006, 11:25	#4
Florida_Flyer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: FL Posts: 169	Re: Going next month I agree with most of what you say ShoreFly, but not all of it. I think that you are making it sound like there is a problem with the quality of training at the Aviator. I don't think so. There is structure to the courses, thanks to the Chief Pilots, 141 courses. If the CFI's are doing what they should be doing (following the course) then standarization should be occuring. As for the low pass on the initial MEI rating that's to do with the #########s at the FAA. They told me at the FSDO, that going MEI first ain't the way to do it. They are pressuring the examiners and their own guys to cut the passes to "encourage" guys to go CFI first. Yeah, that's pointless, I know, but that's the way these Fed, dudes think. Safety and MX is lousy, always has been and with the current crew, always will be. Supra1998tt, you asked about the hours CFI's fly. The answer would be either too much or not enough, averaging out at not enough over time. Read my earlier posts on the Aviator as most of it's still relevant. I don't want to drag up this old argument too much as things are going well for me right now. Listen Supra, look at four or five schools. Talk to Aviator, ATP, Skymates, Spartan and that place in Macon, GA (Southeastern I think). The Aviator is worth considering but things don't always run as smooth as you'd like. Let us know what you decide either way.

July 18th, 2006, 13:38	#5
maverick2 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: LAX Posts: 203	Re: Going next month Supra, I have to chime in on this. Shorefly, hattrick, and FloridaFlyer attended this school a couple of years ago, and the way the school ran at that time is not the way the school runs now. I have been here for nearly a year now and I haven't encountered any of the problems that were mentioned above. Since I did the VA 141 program at the school, I never had to attend the ground class. However from what I have heard from students who attended the instrument ground class they liked it and it was informative. Currently, the MEI ground class instructor right now is the Chief Pilot and I hear nothing but good things from the class. The MX guys work their butts off to get the planes airworthy whenever they are squawked. The other day I had a plane that had a bad tire and the mx guys came right out and changed it in less than fifteen minutes. According to the NTSB 830 definition of incidents, there haven't been any incidents here that needs to be reported since I have been here. I dont know what the standardization is for the flight instructors back in the day, but nowadays the instructors have to be checked out by the Chief pilot on instrument and private/commercial maneuvers before being able to receive students. Before the private multi checkride and three stage checks for the instrument course, the students have to fly with the Chief Pilot (CP). Trust me the Chief pilot will know how the instructors are teaching the students just by observing and questioning the student during the flight. After the flight, the CP will give a postflight briefing to the student and then a long briefing to the instructor if the students make a lot of bad mistakes, and I dont think any instructors like that long briefing from the CP so they will teach the students the right way. I dont know if it was like this couple of years ago. Orlando FSDO and the DPEs holds their standards very high due to the tremendous amount of flight training here in Florida (Flight Safety, Embry Riddle, Florida Institiute of Technology, Paris Air, etc...) and Orlando as far as I know is the only FSDO that offers the Enhanced Safety Program for current CFIs and upcoming new ones. Therefore, the standards are high and the initial CFI is the MEI, therefore that checkride is really difficult but I almost passed first time except for the hard landing. If you compare the Aviators initial CFI course and the ATPs CFI course, the ATPs is faster and gets the job done to the checkride, Aviator's you need to know everything in the MEI PTS and know it well, but it takes longer. However, in the long run, the knowledge is retained much longer than ATPs where you will have a massive brain dump unless you start instructing right away. Instructors here can range from 50 to 100 per month depending how hard they work. Overall, I think the Aviator is a good school, but I think you should go visit all the other schools before making a decision. That way, when you have all the info and made the decision, you know what you are getting into and dont have to look back, so you can give your 100 percent. Good luck. Feel free to ask any questions.

July 18th, 2006, 14:36	#6
Florida_Flyer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: FL Posts: 169	Re: Going next month ......arguing a good case there Maverick. Next you'll have us convinced that Fort Pierce is a great place to live. Well done on the MEI, by the way. Great that we can talk about the +'s and -'s of the Aviator, without it turning into a warzone! Last edited by Florida_Flyer; July 18th, 2006 at 15:04.

July 18th, 2006, 16:40	#9
supra1998tt Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 68	Re: Going next month WEll im currently attending delta connections i did my research and its either tha or I stay at dca so i just wanted to know how the school was

July 19th, 2006, 10:29	#11
Catherine Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 149	Re: Going next month While I certainly can't comment on the Part 141 stuff outside of the Multi-Private and Instrument stuff, I can say that both of those programs here worked extremely well for me. Even considering finding the traffic pattern full when you need to do patterns and every other little thing that goes on, I finished those two within an hour of flight time of the recommended for each. My first instructor Chris breezed me through the rest of my single private which I finished before I went home for Christmas last year and were it not for a week of low ceilings, rain and wind last year during that time I would probably have gone home with my multi-private then as well. I finished my commercial multi under 61 and took the checkride at 250.2 total hours. Sure, planes go down and maybe you don't fly one day....but that can happen anywhere. Is Fort Pierce a great place to live? Frankly I don't mind it...it's not really that different (it is flat!) from where I lived back in Tennessee including the availability of night life, things to do, etc. I've had a very positive and good experience here so far and I'm looking forward to instructing here once I finish. I think the pass rate is pretty decent on it, probably not much different than other checkrides here from what I've seen lately. You have to take into account that people get nervous or feel pressured with the examiner around and sometimes forget to do things they normally always do or do things they normally wouldn't do and end up failing. I can't give you an exact percentage as I've not calculated it, though. The instrument ground school for me being really hyped up on doing the instrument section, I'd already read and understood most things before I got to class (and practiced them in Flight Sim), but it did help to reinforce things that I'd read and clarified a lot of little details and gave me some good tips and advice on the actual flying. Based on what I had read and heard about the school before I got here and with what I'd experienced at the FBO back home, I am more than satisfied to have spent my money here and gotten a strong education in becoming a pilot and be doing so as quickly as I am. I don't regret coming here in any way nor for choosing this school over any other that I researched beforehand. __________________ Catherine "A pilot can't help second-guessing every other pilot; it's an occupational disease. Sorry" Richard Ames, THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS Instructor at Ari Ben Aviator

July 19th, 2006, 14:58	#12
supra1998tt Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 68	Re: Going next month OH and also I have a loan already but i was wondering if for ari ben I can still apply for fafsa if theyd give me any thing

July 19th, 2006, 17:59	#13
Catherine Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 149	Re: Going next month I'd check with the school on it and see what they have to say directly, probably you'd want to talk with Judy. __________________ Catherine "A pilot can't help second-guessing every other pilot; it's an occupational disease. Sorry" Richard Ames, THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS Instructor at Ari Ben Aviator

July 22nd, 2006, 11:17	#14
Queboat Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: planet earth Posts: 181	Re: Going next month Seems things have changed tons. When I was going through the pass rate at the fsdo was 100%. The aviator is a place for people who don't need structure. If you do well studying alone and don't need to be led the entire way you will like the aviator. It worked for me and many others. Back when it cost $25,000 I finished the entire course and still had $2,000 left over. I think the fact that you have to be a "go-getter" help tons when you entire the real world of aviation. What I mean by real world is the level after being a CFI. You think some 135/121/corp department is going to hold your hand and guide you through? Not likely. Ground school at the next level is like drinking from a fire hose. Good luck to all. __________________ FATE IS THE HUNTER, TP & DH. AJI 878 01/09/2007 MMGL N444TW.

July 23rd, 2006, 10:16	#16
Queboat Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: planet earth Posts: 181	Re: Going next month falcon is sweet!!! lear class in august, not sure if i'm going to be in it. I hope so, i tend to like climbing out at 10,000ft a minute. __________________ FATE IS THE HUNTER, TP & DH. AJI 878 01/09/2007 MMGL N444TW.

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