Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator

AaronPilot4life · July 13th, 2006, 18:41

What's up Aviator's?

My name is Aaron and looking for some info regarding Ari-Ben. I am a 500 hour pilot looking to come to Ari-Ben or Skymates in September to build some twin-time. Ok so I heard a rumor that some Regionals don't accept "safety pilot" time in a Twin, they want PIC or Dual-Given. I am not sure the accuracy of that so I'm looking to you guys for insight. I need 80 more hours of multi-time to hit the 100 hour mark. I work the ramp for Coex (ExpressJet) so trying to get the hours quick before they stop hiring at the end of the year (so I hear). For the twin time-building people, are you logging the time at Ari-Ben as all PIC or both PIC and safety pilot? I hear that XJT only asks you your PIC time in the twin so how are you guys legally logging the time? I'm not a CFI but realize this relates to FAR 61.51. Any help guys? Thanks!

supra1998tt · July 14th, 2006, 08:55

I went there last week and asked them she said if you want to logg all the time pic its 20 dollars more to be able to logg the hole 100 hrs pic and the other pilot just logs safety pilot because if not you split the hours thats what they told me you should give them a call

Stone Cold · July 14th, 2006, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by supra1998tt

I went there last week and asked them she said if you want to logg all the time pic its 20 dollars more to be able to logg the hole 100 hrs pic and the other pilot just logs safety pilot because if not you split the hours thats what they told me you should give them a call

If this is what they told you, I'd walk the other way. You shouldn't have to pay any extra money to log PIC doing safety pilot time. I'm sure midlife flyer will chime in and give the great definitions he has in his FAQ files, but basically both pilots, depending on the arrangements made before the flight, should be able to log PIC time. One person will get cut short when the pilot is not under the hood, but it's a miniscule amount of time if you are really doing SP time.

triple7 · July 14th, 2006, 09:33

The JAA students have to be the sole manipulator of the controls, so they pay an extra 20$ per hour to do that. the other pilot(usually a faa timebuilder) logs the time as safety pilot. Both perfectly acceptable means of logging PIC. I flew 100 hours down there, and flew with a couple of Europeans, and it always worked out alright. however I was also there to learn to really fly a twin so I made sure I got my 50 hours of "stick pic". Ariben isnt a bad place. In fact, I would consider ARiben to be a pretty damn good school....at least from my experience.

CommPilot76 · July 14th, 2006, 10:33

Ok, Here is how it works. You are able to log all of the time as PIC but like mentioned earlier when you are safety pilot there is like .2 that you do not log when you are safety pilot. Where the Extra $20.00 comes in is for the JAA people who must log all of it as PIC and not Safety pilot PIC then they pay an extra $20.00 and the safety pilot is charged $20.00 less. and in that case we usually put an FAA pilot in as safety pilot so everyone can log PIC. And for those of you questioning weather or not airlines accept this type of hour building, If you look at the www.aribenaviator.com you will see that we have had several instructors and time builders in the past 2 months go to several of the Regionals by logging PIC this way.
Hope this clears up any questions you may have had.

AaronPilot4life · July 14th, 2006, 11:15

Hey Aviators!

Thanks for the Help! This sounds like a good deal for those of us like me that need that Multi-Time quick. How did you guys like flying the Duchess? I've got about 20 hours in a Seminole. Is there fleet GPS equipped?

Aaron-

CommPilot76 · July 14th, 2006, 11:48

Aviator has 5 Duchess equipped with the Garmin 430 setup and 8 that are not. Hope this helps you out.

kailuaboy · July 15th, 2006, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by supra1998tt

I went there last week and asked them she said if you want to logg all the time pic its 20 dollars more to be able to logg the hole 100 hrs pic and the other pilot just logs safety pilot because if not you split the hours thats what they told me you should give them a call

Im calling BULLSH#& on that!! No way would they tell you that!

Catherine · July 15th, 2006, 09:13

I haven't flown any other twins, but I do like flying the Duchess, I have about 200 hours in it now and only a flight or two left before my MEI checkride and I'll be finished with the multi-engine part of the course.

AaronPilot4life · July 15th, 2006, 10:31

Does the Duchess have a counter-rotating prop like Seminole? (no critical engine). I found the Seminole to be a rather fun and easy aircraft to fly so hopefully the transition to a Duchess will be a good one

Florida_Flyer · July 15th, 2006, 14:51

The Duchess, does have the counter-rotating prop, just like the 'Nole. In fact, I believe they were designed by the same dude so they are very similar. Best part about the Duchess, is you have two doors so getting in it is a little easier. Beechcraft, is the Cadillac of the skies! That's what Mike, told me so I guess it must be true. See y'around.

Killtron2000 · July 15th, 2006, 16:16

So since the JAA guys have to be the sole manipulator of the controls I would guess that an FAA student acts as safety pilot. So does that mean on the pro pilot program that FAA students log more then half their PIC time as safety pilot? Like for example if you have 200 hours in the dutches 40 hours dual and the other 160 is PIC, would 80 or more of that 160 be safety pilot?

Florida_Flyer · July 15th, 2006, 16:53

....or you could just keep it simple and log everything as PIC and maybe save a few bucks. I think this is what some guys do and I don't see how they will get caught.

NickH · July 16th, 2006, 03:45

I'm about 80 hours through timebuilding and I have half stick time. I did hear that one time builder currently is JAA, but I haven't flown with him, and wouldn't if I didn't get my stick time. Almost all timebuilders here are FAA.

Stone Cold · July 16th, 2006, 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Flyer

....or you could just keep it simple and log everything as PIC and maybe save a few bucks. I think this is what some guys do and I don't see how they will get caught.

That's known as padding the logbook, or pencil-whipping the book, and very very very highly discouraged!!!! Why not just write down some N-numbers and log some time in them...you probably won't get caught.

I just don't get people that do this stuff...is this really how people think now a days?

Comair 100ER · September 5th, 2006, 13:31

Aaronpilot4life, I wouldn't worry so much about XJT ending their hiring process anytime soon. Continental is hiring now and 51% of CO pilots are supposed to retire in the next 10yrs. Plus with more and more majors beginning to hire, they'll probably still be desperate for pilots.
Also, how did you build up to 500 hrs w/o being a CFI? I'm at 260 right now and working toward my CFI. So, I'm trying to find ways to build some fast time before I get my CFI. Once I get my CFI it'll add up, but My goal is to go to Ari-Ben Aviator next yr and then HOPEFULLY get a job w/Express, or if not them then Colgan.

DE727UPS · September 5th, 2006, 13:57

A few questions about timebuilding at Ari?

1. What does it cost these days? Gas is going up and up.
2. Do any of the planes have autopilots?
3. Can you fly anywhere you want and get some actual IFR experience?
4. What are the insurance mins?

AaronPilot4life · September 5th, 2006, 14:11

Comair 100ER : Check your PM's.

DE727UPS : The aviator website has tons of great information. If your unable to find what your looking for, contact the school. The student coordinator's name is Mary and she is very helpful. Mary@aribenaviator.com or 1-800-635-9032.

http://www.aribenaviator.com

be76flyer · September 7th, 2006, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

A few questions about timebuilding at Ari?

1. What does it cost these days? Gas is going up and up.

10,000 for 100hr

Quote:

2. Do any of the planes have autopilots?

None that work

Quote:

3. Can you fly anywhere you want and get some actual IFR experience?

You can't get any actual and have both pilots log PIC

Quote:

4. What are the insurance mins?

5hr Checkout

DE727UPS · September 7th, 2006, 14:46

Thanks for the response.

surreal1221 · September 7th, 2006, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Thanks for the response.

You going to leave your job to come down and pay 10k for 100 hours?

DE727UPS · September 7th, 2006, 23:48

"You going to leave your job to come down and pay 10k for 100 hours?"

Nope....

surreal1221 · September 8th, 2006, 04:33

Didn't think so.

MFT1Air · September 8th, 2006, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Didn't think so.

It's nice to have a co-worker whose husband owns a 340. Love the multi time I'm getting!

. . .as if it matters, for I'm still flying simply for the love of aviation and not for a future job.

July 13th, 2006, 18:41	#1
AaronPilot4life Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Da States Posts: 104	Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator What's up Aviator's? My name is Aaron and looking for some info regarding Ari-Ben. I am a 500 hour pilot looking to come to Ari-Ben or Skymates in September to build some twin-time. Ok so I heard a rumor that some Regionals don't accept "safety pilot" time in a Twin, they want PIC or Dual-Given. I am not sure the accuracy of that so I'm looking to you guys for insight. I need 80 more hours of multi-time to hit the 100 hour mark. I work the ramp for Coex (ExpressJet) so trying to get the hours quick before they stop hiring at the end of the year (so I hear). For the twin time-building people, are you logging the time at Ari-Ben as all PIC or both PIC and safety pilot? I hear that XJT only asks you your PIC time in the twin so how are you guys legally logging the time? I'm not a CFI but realize this relates to FAR 61.51. Any help guys? Thanks! __________________ "JetLink 2844 ..... 8 miles from the outermarker, turn left heading zero-eight-zero, maintain 2600 until established on the localizer, Cleared ILS Rwy 4 Right Approach."

July 14th, 2006, 08:55	#2
supra1998tt Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 68	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator I went there last week and asked them she said if you want to logg all the time pic its 20 dollars more to be able to logg the hole 100 hrs pic and the other pilot just logs safety pilot because if not you split the hours thats what they told me you should give them a call

July 14th, 2006, 09:33	#4
triple7 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Arlington, VA(EWR on the weekends) Posts: 899	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator The JAA students have to be the sole manipulator of the controls, so they pay an extra 20$ per hour to do that. the other pilot(usually a faa timebuilder) logs the time as safety pilot. Both perfectly acceptable means of logging PIC. I flew 100 hours down there, and flew with a couple of Europeans, and it always worked out alright. however I was also there to learn to really fly a twin so I made sure I got my 50 hours of "stick pic". Ariben isnt a bad place. In fact, I would consider ARiben to be a pretty damn good school....at least from my experience. __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI- KJYO Commercial MEL/SEL, Instrument airplane EMB-145 SIC

July 14th, 2006, 10:33	#5
CommPilot76 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 52	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator Ok, Here is how it works. You are able to log all of the time as PIC but like mentioned earlier when you are safety pilot there is like .2 that you do not log when you are safety pilot. Where the Extra $20.00 comes in is for the JAA people who must log all of it as PIC and not Safety pilot PIC then they pay an extra $20.00 and the safety pilot is charged $20.00 less. and in that case we usually put an FAA pilot in as safety pilot so everyone can log PIC. And for those of you questioning weather or not airlines accept this type of hour building, If you look at the www.aribenaviator.com you will see that we have had several instructors and time builders in the past 2 months go to several of the Regionals by logging PIC this way. Hope this clears up any questions you may have had.

July 14th, 2006, 11:15	#6
AaronPilot4life Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Da States Posts: 104	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator Hey Aviators! Thanks for the Help! This sounds like a good deal for those of us like me that need that Multi-Time quick. How did you guys like flying the Duchess? I've got about 20 hours in a Seminole. Is there fleet GPS equipped? Aaron- __________________ "JetLink 2844 ..... 8 miles from the outermarker, turn left heading zero-eight-zero, maintain 2600 until established on the localizer, Cleared ILS Rwy 4 Right Approach."

July 14th, 2006, 11:48	#7
CommPilot76 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 52	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator Aviator has 5 Duchess equipped with the Garmin 430 setup and 8 that are not. Hope this helps you out.

July 15th, 2006, 09:13	#9
Catherine Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 149	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator I haven't flown any other twins, but I do like flying the Duchess, I have about 200 hours in it now and only a flight or two left before my MEI checkride and I'll be finished with the multi-engine part of the course. __________________ Catherine "A pilot can't help second-guessing every other pilot; it's an occupational disease. Sorry" Richard Ames, THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS Instructor at Ari Ben Aviator

July 15th, 2006, 10:31	#10
AaronPilot4life Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Da States Posts: 104	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator Does the Duchess have a counter-rotating prop like Seminole? (no critical engine). I found the Seminole to be a rather fun and easy aircraft to fly so hopefully the transition to a Duchess will be a good one __________________ "JetLink 2844 ..... 8 miles from the outermarker, turn left heading zero-eight-zero, maintain 2600 until established on the localizer, Cleared ILS Rwy 4 Right Approach."

July 15th, 2006, 14:51	#11
Florida_Flyer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: FL Posts: 169	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator The Duchess, does have the counter-rotating prop, just like the 'Nole. In fact, I believe they were designed by the same dude so they are very similar. Best part about the Duchess, is you have two doors so getting in it is a little easier. Beechcraft, is the Cadillac of the skies! That's what Mike, told me so I guess it must be true. See y'around.

July 15th, 2006, 16:16	#12
Killtron2000 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Prime Universe Posts: 1,635	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator So since the JAA guys have to be the sole manipulator of the controls I would guess that an FAA student acts as safety pilot. So does that mean on the pro pilot program that FAA students log more then half their PIC time as safety pilot? Like for example if you have 200 hours in the dutches 40 hours dual and the other 160 is PIC, would 80 or more of that 160 be safety pilot? __________________ This is a signature, fear it.

July 15th, 2006, 16:53	#13
Florida_Flyer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: FL Posts: 169	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator ....or you could just keep it simple and log everything as PIC and maybe save a few bucks. I think this is what some guys do and I don't see how they will get caught.

July 16th, 2006, 03:45	#14
NickH Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 686	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator I'm about 80 hours through timebuilding and I have half stick time. I did hear that one time builder currently is JAA, but I haven't flown with him, and wouldn't if I didn't get my stick time. Almost all timebuilders here are FAA.

September 5th, 2006, 13:31	#16
Comair 100ER Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: here Posts: 80	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator Aaronpilot4life, I wouldn't worry so much about XJT ending their hiring process anytime soon. Continental is hiring now and 51% of CO pilots are supposed to retire in the next 10yrs. Plus with more and more majors beginning to hire, they'll probably still be desperate for pilots. Also, how did you build up to 500 hrs w/o being a CFI? I'm at 260 right now and working toward my CFI. So, I'm trying to find ways to build some fast time before I get my CFI. Once I get my CFI it'll add up, but My goal is to go to Ari-Ben Aviator next yr and then HOPEFULLY get a job w/Express, or if not them then Colgan.

September 5th, 2006, 13:57	#17
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,550	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator A few questions about timebuilding at Ari? 1. What does it cost these days? Gas is going up and up. 2. Do any of the planes have autopilots? 3. Can you fly anywhere you want and get some actual IFR experience? 4. What are the insurance mins?

September 5th, 2006, 14:11	#18
AaronPilot4life Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Da States Posts: 104	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator Comair 100ER : Check your PM's. DE727UPS : The aviator website has tons of great information. If your unable to find what your looking for, contact the school. The student coordinator's name is Mary and she is very helpful. Mary@aribenaviator.com or 1-800-635-9032. http://www.aribenaviator.com __________________ "JetLink 2844 ..... 8 miles from the outermarker, turn left heading zero-eight-zero, maintain 2600 until established on the localizer, Cleared ILS Rwy 4 Right Approach."

September 7th, 2006, 14:46	#20
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,550	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator Thanks for the response.

September 7th, 2006, 23:48	#22
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,550	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator "You going to leave your job to come down and pay 10k for 100 hours?" Nope....

September 8th, 2006, 04:33	#23
surreal1221 Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Alpha Tango Lima Posts: 9,903	Re: Logging Multi-Time @ Ari-Ben Aviator Didn't think so. __________________ AGI.MEI.CFI.CFII.FO.CRJ2 \| Josh \| The TRoP \| Rmble On \| ALPA \| IVAW \| ACLU \|

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