Just curious about some other options

[thebot]

Before I make my final decision on an academy.. i'd like ot know a little more about RAA. Even though i'm 90% sure i'm going to attend FSA, I haven't seen much info on RAA (Regional Airline Acedemy). There isn't much information about this school on any of the boards, when I do a search RAA not much comes up.

I'd also like to know about other academy's that are out there other than ATP, FSA or DCA that people feel are awesome places to train. Seems that the CAPT prgram at ERAU has been put on hold for people like to (who don't need a degree because I already have one) so please list other part 141 school / programs that perhaps I should visit sometime this month before I sign the dotted line with any particular institution.

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by thebot

Before I make my final decision on an academy.. i'd like ot know a little more about RAA. Even though i'm 90% sure i'm going to attend FSA, I haven't seen much info on RAA (Regional Airline Acedemy). There isn't much information about this school on any of the boards, when I do a search RAA not much comes up.

I'd also like to know about other academy's that are out there other than ATP, FSA or DCA that people feel are awesome places to train. Seems that the CAPT prgram at ERAU has been put on hold for people like to (who don't need a degree because I already have one) so please list other part 141 school / programs that perhaps I should visit sometime this month before I sign the dotted line with any particular institution.

AirSafety in Glendale has been great to me and has far exceeded my expectations. I know id rather train in the Cirrus than get my CRJ type.

[NewbieAirlinePilot]

Originally Posted by thebot

Before I make my final decision on an academy.. i'd like ot know a little more about RAA. Even though i'm 90% sure i'm going to attend FSA, I haven't seen much info on RAA (Regional Airline Acedemy). There isn't much information about this school on any of the boards, when I do a search RAA not much comes up.

I'd also like to know about other academy's that are out there other than ATP, FSA or DCA that people feel are awesome places to train. Seems that the CAPT prgram at ERAU has been put on hold for people like to (who don't need a degree because I already have one) so please list other part 141 school / programs that perhaps I should visit sometime this month before I sign the dotted line with any particular institution.

AirSafety is somewhere that I would avoid, very small school, their website isn't up to date at all. They do not have that sim anymore that they adversite. And flying a cirrus is nice, if you want to pay more $ for it. Flight time is flight time. Look at the hourly rate breakdown.

Don't pay for a type rating is my advice on that. Westwind School of Aeronautics in PHX treated me good during my time there as a student/CFI. And has gotten me into a really good job now. There prices can't be beat for a large flight school either. Westwind does have a part 141 program which you have to request specific information about.

[DE727UPS]

If the price is the same, I'd take FSA over RAA. I'd say FSA is a higher quality school and experience. I've heard very few good comments about RAA, but by all means, you should check it out and see what you think.

I've heard a lot of good things about Mazzei and know a guy who went there and is at Skywest now. http://www.flymfs.com/

Not as flashy as FSA, not as expensive. I know you're into "structure" and formal ground schools, and all, so it might not be for you.

Someone was on a while back saying how great PanAm was. I have major issues with their marketing and some past practices in flight training, but maybe things are better now.

Sierra academy has a deal with training foreign students at an old Air Force base in Atwater, CA. Seems like a better deal than going to DCA or ATP and being forced to work for $10/hr as a CFI.

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by NewbieAirlinePilot

AirSafety is somewhere that I would avoid, very small school, their website isn't up to date at all. They do not have that sim anymore that they adversite. And flying a cirrus is nice, if you want to pay more $ for it. Flight time is flight time. Look at the hourly rate breakdown.

Don't pay for a type rating is my advice on that. Westwind School of Aeronautics in PHX treated me good during my time there as a student/CFI. And has gotten me into a really good job now. There prices can't be beat for a large flight school either. Westwind does have a part 141 program which you have to request specific information about.

Thats because they are doing everything they can to keep prices down, so things like an updated website can wait. The sim is goen which is good because there is really no need for CRM. 129 an hour for a SR-20 is cheap for that type of airplane.

[DE727UPS]

"The sim is goen which is good because there is really no need for CRM"

HAHA. You wanna say that again....slowly....

Sims are great for IFR training. Not really for CRM, as I see it. Any school that doesn't use sims for basic IFR training is trying to get you to spend max amount on aircraft rental without regard to what kind of product they turn out. I'd run like crazy from any school teaching basic IFR that doesn't have a ground trainer sitting around. Crap, I got three of them and I'm not even in the biz anymore...

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"The sim is goen which is good because there is really no need for CRM"

HAHA. You wanna say that again....slowly....

Sims are great for IFR training. Not really for CRM, as I see it. Any school that doesn't use sims for basic IFR training is trying to get you to spend max amount on aircraft rental without regard to what kind of product they turn out. I'd run like crazy from any school teaching basic IFR that doesn't have a ground trainer sitting around. Crap, I got three of them and I'm not even in the biz anymore...

They had a B1900 Level D sim that they used for a CRM course to help their CFIs. That is gone, We still have a nice sim for IFR work and have a Cirrus Sim in the works.

[NewbieAirlinePilot]

Originally Posted by Champcar

Thats because they are doing everything they can to keep prices down, so things like an updated website can wait. The sim is goen which is good because there is really no need for CRM. 129 an hour for a SR-20 is cheap for that type of airplane.

Thank you for the quote of the year by an AirSafety student. "The sim is goen which is good because there is really no need for CRM". I just about fell off my chair laughing at you for saying that. I think you make a good match for AirSafety if you feel CRM isn't important. What a joke.

As far as keeping the costs down by not updating the website, give me a break. The school is just providing false adversitement to potentional students to get them to come look at the school. I bet if you guys ever get a NEW sim, you would have the website updated months in advance! The misleading looks like it starts right from the minute students log on to their website and not just when they take a tour.

I agree 129 is a good price for a sr20, however 700 hours in your log book and 700 hours in my log book will look exactly the same to a airline company, only difference is I will have spent less money getting those hours.

[NewbieAirlinePilot]

Originally Posted by Champcar

They had a B1900 Level D sim that they used for a CRM course to help their CFIs. That is gone, We still have a nice sim for IFR work and have a Cirrus Sim in the works.

So what do they use NOW to help their CFI's? Microsoft flight sim is a good sim for IFR work, so thats not really say much.

In the works, how far down the road is that coming? What are the current students doing? Learning on one sim, then flying another one. Seems pretty productive if you ask me.

[Champcar]

CRM is not imprtant to a student pilots nor CFIs, there is no reason to pay for it, the airlines will teach you it. Like i said we have a nice new sim for IFR work. The only false advertising I see is that they reduced and changed some programs to helps save money for there students. The Cirrus sim that is coming is going to be used for 142 ops when It gets here.

Size of the school has nothing to do with it either, but let me guess your one of them PanAm , Westwind types.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Champcar

CRM is not imprtant to a student pilots nor CFIs...

???
Are we talking about the same "CRM"?

[Champcar]

Yeah. There is no need for Airline Style CRM, this is what they wanted to teach and is the same dumb thing Riddle does.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Champcar

Yeah. There is no need for Airline Style CRM, this is what they wanted to teach and is the same dumb thing Riddle does.

Which begs the question; What is "Airline Style CRM"?

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Which begs the question; What is "Airline Style CRM"?

What the airlines do is great. But i student needs to learn to fly first, not be bombarded with having to learn every flow, verifying flaps up on a touch and go....talking up a storm.. Let them use the checklists first and let them learn the important things first, thats why there is a CFI on board. Then slowly bring in things like flows and verbal checks.

Plus the Airlines will teach you all the CRM you want when you get there, so I see paying for a CRM program about as helpfull as buying a Type.

What is going on anyways. I was just nicely suggesting the place and some noobe comes in a rips me apart for what?

[NewbieAirlinePilot]

Originally Posted by Champcar

What the airlines do is great. But i student needs to learn to fly first, not be bombarded with having to learn every flow, verifying flaps up on a touch and go....talking about a storm.. Let them use the checklists first and let them learn the important things first, thats why there is a CFI on board. Then slowly bring in things like flows and verbal checks.

Plus the Airlines will teach you all the CRM you want when you get there, so I see paying for a CRM program about as helpfull as buying a Type.

What is going on anyways. I was just nicely suggesting the place and some noobe comes in a rips me apart for what?

Some noobe, I was only ripping you a new one because you suggested to some poor kid a crappy school (AirSafety). They don't have a CRM program. The sim on their website is gone. And yes, it is possible to run a CRM program after they have completed all of their licenses. You don't need to work this in during pre solo (doesn't take alot of figure that one out).

If you don't stress CRM or even give students a clue to as what CRM is before going to an airline interview, you are really putting them at a disadvantage. What do you think they are looking for during a sim ride anyway during an interview? How well they fly that particluar sim? Heck no! They are looking for your procedures, your CRM, making critical decisions, and most of the time they will NOT give you a checklist, you just have to use your own in your head. So yes I agree at the early stages overwhelming students with crm and verbal checklist, but not at the later stages.

One last question, is AirSafety training people to pass a checkride or to become a successful airline pilot? Seems to me by leaving crm and not stressing verbal checklist and flows.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Champcar

What the airlines do is great. But i student needs to learn to fly first, not be bombarded with having to learn every flow, verifying flaps up on a touch and go....talking about a storm.. Let them use the checklists first and let them learn the important things first, thats why there is a CFI on board. Then slowly bring in things like flows and verbal checks.

Plus the Airlines will teach you all the CRM you want when you get there, so I see paying for a CRM program about as helpfull as buying a Type.

<edited my response. I started a new thread about CRM to avoid too much thread hijack: CRM; ramblings and related thoughts...>

[Champcar]

Originally Posted by NewbieAirlinePilot

Some noobe, I was only ripping you a new one because you suggested to some poor kid a crappy school (AirSafety). They don't have a CRM program. The sim on their website is gone. And yes, it is possible to run a CRM program after they have completed all of their licenses. You don't need to work this in during pre solo (doesn't take alot of figure that one out).

If you don't stress CRM or even give students a clue to as what CRM is before going to an airline interview, you are really putting them at a disadvantage. What do you think they are looking for during a sim ride anyway during an interview? How well they fly that particluar sim? Heck no! They are looking for your procedures, your CRM, making critical decisions, and most of the time they will NOT give you a checklist, you just have to use your own in your head. So yes I agree at the early stages overwhelming students with crm and verbal checklist, but not at the later stages.

One last question, is AirSafety training people to pass a checkride or to become a successful airline pilot? Seems to me by leaving crm and not stressing verbal checklist and flows.

HA that was funny.

[NewbieAirlinePilot]

how so? it's true...

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Champcar

CRM is not imprtant to a student pilots nor CFIs, there is no reason to pay for it, the airlines will teach you it.

Have you had a chance to peruse the CRM thread I started based on your comments? Any thoughts or comments to add over there?
CRM; ramblings and related thoughts...