I took a visit to Ari-Ben

Killtron2000 · May 29th, 2006, 23:53

I went to Florida this weekend to visit flight schools, I visited Ari-Ben and Flight Safety. As you might imagine both schools have pros and cons.

I will start off with what I liked about Ari-Ben. The first thing and one of the biggest considerations is price. For my situation it will cost about $40,000, that includes pro pilot course, check rides, books and rent. That does not count car insurance, food, clothes and other incidentals. That can be a federal loan too right now it has a rate of 4.8% it will go up to 6.x% after April 1st. They have housing at the airport which looked nice and the Vero Beach houses were very nice but are 8 miles away. The Vero Beach houses had a bigger kitchen and common area but at the old Pan am apartments you don't have to share a bathroom and I think the bedrooms are bigger. I don't think I will need a car really or at least need to spend much on gasoline. The next thing I liked it how the owner of the school is there and you can talk to him if you have a problem. About the course itself I like how most of it is multi time, also if you teach there you get a lot of multi time.

The things that concern me about Ari-Ben is the student to plane ratio, 16 or so duchess's for 150+ students (Mike's number). So they don't spend much time on the ground but that also means you can take them out at 2am if you want. The planes themselves are old but the engines are much younger then the airframes. The maintenance department is very busy since each plane is in for a 100 hour ever 3 weeks. I got the impression the maintenance is good. 5 of the duchess's have Garmin 430's. There are some other minor things about the planes so overall they aren't perfect or pretty but they do fly and that's what counts. If you instruct there the pay stinks, 15 an hour and that only counts for time spent in the airplane, you have to give ground for free, "you'll live" is what Mike told me, but from talking to instructors there they said once you get 2 or 3 students you do alright and build multi time quickly.

Flight Safety is a top of the line school, the facilities were great. They have everything there from a cafeteria to a library, it felt like a university. The aircraft were in excellent condition they have 85 planes total and about 110 students. They are pipers mostly they have a couple aerobatic planes that you get some time in and since the piper factory is on the field maintenance is fast and good. Rent was pretty flexible too since it was by the day, can be anywhere from 15-25 a day, not too bad. The school also has partnerships with regionals and students get hired at reduced minimums more about that on the website. They also have some very sophisticated simulators in a couple buildings. They also have a deal where if you agree to instruct 800 hours for them with pretty decent pay and benefits they will pay for your MEI and CFII.

The price is very high, students there can expect to take out 75-90 grand in loans. I simply can't afford that. Also you get 55 hours multi time which is pretty small compared to about about 200 at Ari-Ben. Not too many down sides other then the price.

About Florida in general, it is very lush and beautiful. It is also very humid and hot, standing in the shade I was almost breaking a sweat. I sat in the backseat on a flight and taxiing and startup were pretty warm but in the air the vents worked very good and the duchess is actually a pretty comfortable plane I found. It seemed very hazy I don't know if that is all the time. Florida has a high sales tax too so cost of living is not cheap. People have criticized Florida drivers but it didn't seem bad at all. For some reason there doesn't seem to be a rush hour and traffic is pretty light around Vero Beach and Fort Pierce. It's kind of a contrast because you have good 'ole southern hospitality but also some pretty rude people too. I don't know much about the hurricanes. If I got something wrong please correct me and if you have any questions I will try to answer them.

blakman7 · May 30th, 2006, 00:34

Yeah quick question to all AriBen students/instructors. It has said in other threads that it is encouraged to backseat on during training. Are you allowed to take guests on a flight. For instance, if you are on a flight with your instructor, are you able to have someone in the backseat or is that a liability issue?

Stone Cold · May 30th, 2006, 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killtron2000

About Florida in general, it is very lush and beautiful. It is also very humid and hot, standing in the shade I was almost breaking a sweat. I sat in the backseat on a flight and taxiing and startup were pretty warm but in the air the vents worked very good and the duchess is actually a pretty comfortable plane I found. It seemed very hazy I don't know if that is all the time. Florida has a high sales tax too so cost of living is not cheap. People have criticized Florida drivers but it didn't seem bad at all. For some reason there doesn't seem to be a rush hour and traffic is pretty light around Vero Beach and Fort Pierce. It's kind of a contrast because you have good 'ole southern hospitality but also some pretty rude people too. I don't know much about the hurricanes. If I got something wrong please correct me and if you have any questions I will try to answer them.

I don't know anything about the schools, but I will comment on FL. As far as the haze...it's hazy, especially during the summer. Very high humidity and temps make it Marginal VFR some times.

The reason FL sales tax is so high is we take the money from the tourists

. There is no income tax in FL, so it all works out if you live there.

Traffic over a holiday weekend is in no way indicative of normal traffic. I don't know specifically about the areas you were in but I wouldn't count on there being light traffic all the time, since you witnessed it over a holiday weekend.

There are tons of great people in FL, and also some jerks. Quite a few (not all) of the jerks are from yankeeland (the north), so don't think it's all the Southerners being that way. Remember, FL has a lot of people moving in from out of town all the time...especially snow birds

.

As far as hurricanes, it's part of the territory. FL definitely has had it's share of them, but we are also prepared for them a lot better than most places...just look at Katrina

.

Good luck in your decision.

CommPilot76 · May 30th, 2006, 10:26

Actually Aviator has about 170 students right now, but not all of them are in the Duchess at the same time. Never had a problem getting a plane for solo flight or with an instructor We also have 10 Cessna 172's that a lot of the guys are flying

The Instructors at the Aviator do get paid when they teach a ground school.

Catherine · May 30th, 2006, 11:12

Also, food isn't taxed like regular goods are here, so you can buy your ramen noodles and not pay for that high sales tax! I think with a mainly food run to Wal-Mart I spent about $25 and of that only about 50 cents or something was sales tax. Right now until June 1st you can also buy some supplies for hurricane season tax free, so I picked up another 8 pack of AA batteries for my headset as well.

The haze does seem to come and go here, one day it's 10 miles viz and the next day it's way down. We flew to Key West yesterday and over the ocean it seemed like there was almost a fog bank in places it was so humid.....very light and see through all the way, but it was pretty bad viz. However as much as this is a problem here for soloing private students in a 172, it's not any better back in TN where I lived before coming here. In the summer there at the airport there were many days where visibility was 5 miles and during the summer you can never see the three mountains that the airport is in the center of. In the winter they are generally always visible.

Not ever really had too much trouble scheduling a plane if it's done a couple of days in advance, usually you'll be doing that instead of waiting until the last minute to try and snag one.

Best of luck with your training!

Getburned · May 30th, 2006, 22:55

I thought the sales tax was cheap here in Florida, probably because its a couple percent higher back home in Texas.

montanaflyer · June 1st, 2006, 11:24

hey Killtron2000---I headed down to the aviator in Feb and am 90% sure i will be headed there in the fall. I even flew on an IFR training flight with Catherine(not sure if you remember C). Since you are in Sun River and not that far off from Missoula I thought we should try to connect and discuss this decision that we are both trying to make. You ever make it to Missoula?

blakman7 · June 1st, 2006, 18:35

For anyone out there who knows,

It says on the website that AriBen has 12 Beechcraft BE-76 Duchess, 9 Cessna C-172 Skyhawk, 1 Piper PA-28R201T Arrow IV, and 1 Piper J-3 Cub. So my question is.....what do private pilots train in? The 172? Do they just use the Arrow for the Commercial Single Engine Land add on? Also, off the topic, when you are an instructor, are there any benefits associated with it? Thanks.

Killtron2000 · June 1st, 2006, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanaflyer

hey Killtron2000---I headed down to the aviator in Feb and am 90% sure i will be headed there in the fall. I even flew on an IFR training flight with Catherine(not sure if you remember C). Since you are in Sun River and not that far off from Missoula I thought we should try to connect and discuss this decision that we are both trying to make. You ever make it to Missoula?

I've never been to Missoula, although my sister is actually there right now at a horse show. But I am sure I will be going to the aviator in August or September unless something really unexpected comes up. We should definitely chat sometime.

blakman7 · June 3rd, 2006, 10:34

So does anyone have a response about the equipment question that was posted on this thread?

vabantha · June 3rd, 2006, 16:35

172 for the private. The aviator guys usually don't fly the arrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakman7

So does anyone have a response about the equipment question that was posted on this thread?

blakman7 · June 3rd, 2006, 18:00

So does anyone know what they use the Arrow and J-3 for?

BrianNC · June 3rd, 2006, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakman7

So does anyone know what they use the Arrow and J-3 for?

Well, I really don't know but I would guess that the J3 is for a tailwheel endorsement and at one time the Arrow would have been for the single engine commercial. But since the initial commercial is done in a twin, the single add-on doesn't need to be done in a complex plane like the Arrow. So not sure about the Arrow.

NickH · June 3rd, 2006, 20:42

The Arrow is currently only used by EFT students who also use the school for their JAA CPL.

The PPL students fly in the 172's.

The J-3 Used to be used for spin endorsements, but these are now done elsewhere so the J-3 is unused.

BrianNC · June 3rd, 2006, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickH

The Arrow is currently only used by EFT students who also use the school for their JAA CPL.

The PPL students fly in the 172's.

The J-3 Used to be used for spin endorsements, but these are now done elsewhere so the J-3 is unused.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

lowery21 · June 3rd, 2006, 21:38

"The J-3 Used to be used for spin endorsements, but these are now done elsewhere so the J-3 is unused."

I was there when we got the cub and I never saw it used. I think eventually they plan to do spin/tailwheel ends. with it.

...plus its more fun with Mr Bent.

Catherine · June 3rd, 2006, 22:32

Yes I do remember you being here and flying with me! I've seen so many new faces since then I don't know if I could pick you out of a lineup though!

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanaflyer

I even flew on an IFR training flight with Catherine(not sure if you remember C).

S.T.Aviator · June 3rd, 2006, 23:54

Hey guys. It's 11.42 a.m right now in Toronto and I am doing my usual last minute packing for my flight tomorrow from YYZ to MCO. I'm coming down with two of my friends for a week of exploring Florida from Orlando to KeyWest and to check out my favorite school "Ari Ben Aviator". I am looking forward to meeting all the JC'rs at the school and am mentaly preparing for the heat and humidity. And for all AriBen prospects reading this post, I will post a detailed description of my trip when I get back. I am confident my experience will be pleasant as it has been for most of the visitors to the school.

See you guys in a week.

BrianNC · June 3rd, 2006, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.T.Aviator

Hey guys. It's 11.42 a.m right now in Toronto...

Wow. 12 hour difference between Toronto and the East Coast?

S.T.Aviator · June 4th, 2006, 00:00

LOL. wooops. 11.42 pm

USMC-SGT · June 4th, 2006, 13:19

I heard that the J-3 was in a hanger and does not fly. I dont know if that is because no one uses it or because it is not airworthy. I have a small handful of tailwheel hours and would love to see it up in the air and rentable by next spring when i am there, cant be some low and slow with the doors open in a J-3 when it is 99 degrees with 100 percent humidity

hattrick · June 4th, 2006, 15:05

as far as i know mike has owned the j-3 for quite a while although it never flew when i was there and sounds like it still doesnt. i think it needs some work done but even if it were ready to fly right now i doubt mike would let people. its kinda like his baby and i know if i had one i sure as hell wouldnt let anyone near it

May 29th, 2006, 23:53	#1
Killtron2000 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Prime Universe Posts: 1,633	I took a visit to Ari-Ben I went to Florida this weekend to visit flight schools, I visited Ari-Ben and Flight Safety. As you might imagine both schools have pros and cons. I will start off with what I liked about Ari-Ben. The first thing and one of the biggest considerations is price. For my situation it will cost about $40,000, that includes pro pilot course, check rides, books and rent. That does not count car insurance, food, clothes and other incidentals. That can be a federal loan too right now it has a rate of 4.8% it will go up to 6.x% after April 1st. They have housing at the airport which looked nice and the Vero Beach houses were very nice but are 8 miles away. The Vero Beach houses had a bigger kitchen and common area but at the old Pan am apartments you don't have to share a bathroom and I think the bedrooms are bigger. I don't think I will need a car really or at least need to spend much on gasoline. The next thing I liked it how the owner of the school is there and you can talk to him if you have a problem. About the course itself I like how most of it is multi time, also if you teach there you get a lot of multi time. The things that concern me about Ari-Ben is the student to plane ratio, 16 or so duchess's for 150+ students (Mike's number). So they don't spend much time on the ground but that also means you can take them out at 2am if you want. The planes themselves are old but the engines are much younger then the airframes. The maintenance department is very busy since each plane is in for a 100 hour ever 3 weeks. I got the impression the maintenance is good. 5 of the duchess's have Garmin 430's. There are some other minor things about the planes so overall they aren't perfect or pretty but they do fly and that's what counts. If you instruct there the pay stinks, 15 an hour and that only counts for time spent in the airplane, you have to give ground for free, "you'll live" is what Mike told me, but from talking to instructors there they said once you get 2 or 3 students you do alright and build multi time quickly. Flight Safety is a top of the line school, the facilities were great. They have everything there from a cafeteria to a library, it felt like a university. The aircraft were in excellent condition they have 85 planes total and about 110 students. They are pipers mostly they have a couple aerobatic planes that you get some time in and since the piper factory is on the field maintenance is fast and good. Rent was pretty flexible too since it was by the day, can be anywhere from 15-25 a day, not too bad. The school also has partnerships with regionals and students get hired at reduced minimums more about that on the website. They also have some very sophisticated simulators in a couple buildings. They also have a deal where if you agree to instruct 800 hours for them with pretty decent pay and benefits they will pay for your MEI and CFII. The price is very high, students there can expect to take out 75-90 grand in loans. I simply can't afford that. Also you get 55 hours multi time which is pretty small compared to about about 200 at Ari-Ben. Not too many down sides other then the price. About Florida in general, it is very lush and beautiful. It is also very humid and hot, standing in the shade I was almost breaking a sweat. I sat in the backseat on a flight and taxiing and startup were pretty warm but in the air the vents worked very good and the duchess is actually a pretty comfortable plane I found. It seemed very hazy I don't know if that is all the time. Florida has a high sales tax too so cost of living is not cheap. People have criticized Florida drivers but it didn't seem bad at all. For some reason there doesn't seem to be a rush hour and traffic is pretty light around Vero Beach and Fort Pierce. It's kind of a contrast because you have good 'ole southern hospitality but also some pretty rude people too. I don't know much about the hurricanes. If I got something wrong please correct me and if you have any questions I will try to answer them. __________________ This is a signature, fear it.

May 30th, 2006, 00:34	#2
blakman7 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 116	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben Yeah quick question to all AriBen students/instructors. It has said in other threads that it is encouraged to backseat on during training. Are you allowed to take guests on a flight. For instance, if you are on a flight with your instructor, are you able to have someone in the backseat or is that a liability issue? __________________ Asking what a pilot thinks about the FAA is like asking a fire hydrant what it thinks about dogs.

May 30th, 2006, 10:26	#4
CommPilot76 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 51	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben Actually Aviator has about 170 students right now, but not all of them are in the Duchess at the same time. Never had a problem getting a plane for solo flight or with an instructor We also have 10 Cessna 172's that a lot of the guys are flying The Instructors at the Aviator do get paid when they teach a ground school.

May 30th, 2006, 11:12	#5
Catherine Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 149	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben Also, food isn't taxed like regular goods are here, so you can buy your ramen noodles and not pay for that high sales tax! I think with a mainly food run to Wal-Mart I spent about $25 and of that only about 50 cents or something was sales tax. Right now until June 1st you can also buy some supplies for hurricane season tax free, so I picked up another 8 pack of AA batteries for my headset as well. The haze does seem to come and go here, one day it's 10 miles viz and the next day it's way down. We flew to Key West yesterday and over the ocean it seemed like there was almost a fog bank in places it was so humid.....very light and see through all the way, but it was pretty bad viz. However as much as this is a problem here for soloing private students in a 172, it's not any better back in TN where I lived before coming here. In the summer there at the airport there were many days where visibility was 5 miles and during the summer you can never see the three mountains that the airport is in the center of. In the winter they are generally always visible. Not ever really had too much trouble scheduling a plane if it's done a couple of days in advance, usually you'll be doing that instead of waiting until the last minute to try and snag one. Best of luck with your training! __________________ Catherine "A pilot can't help second-guessing every other pilot; it's an occupational disease. Sorry" Richard Ames, THE CAT WHO WALKS THROUGH WALLS Instructor at Ari Ben Aviator

May 30th, 2006, 22:55	#6
Getburned Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Jupiter Posts: 88	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben I thought the sales tax was cheap here in Florida, probably because its a couple percent higher back home in Texas.

June 1st, 2006, 11:24	#7
montanaflyer Newbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben hey Killtron2000---I headed down to the aviator in Feb and am 90% sure i will be headed there in the fall. I even flew on an IFR training flight with Catherine(not sure if you remember C). Since you are in Sun River and not that far off from Missoula I thought we should try to connect and discuss this decision that we are both trying to make. You ever make it to Missoula?

June 1st, 2006, 18:35	#8
blakman7 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 116	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben For anyone out there who knows, It says on the website that AriBen has 12 Beechcraft BE-76 Duchess, 9 Cessna C-172 Skyhawk, 1 Piper PA-28R201T Arrow IV, and 1 Piper J-3 Cub. So my question is.....what do private pilots train in? The 172? Do they just use the Arrow for the Commercial Single Engine Land add on? Also, off the topic, when you are an instructor, are there any benefits associated with it? Thanks. __________________ Asking what a pilot thinks about the FAA is like asking a fire hydrant what it thinks about dogs.

June 3rd, 2006, 10:34	#10
blakman7 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 116	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben So does anyone have a response about the equipment question that was posted on this thread? __________________ Asking what a pilot thinks about the FAA is like asking a fire hydrant what it thinks about dogs.

June 3rd, 2006, 18:00	#12
blakman7 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 116	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben So does anyone know what they use the Arrow and J-3 for? __________________ Asking what a pilot thinks about the FAA is like asking a fire hydrant what it thinks about dogs.

June 3rd, 2006, 20:42	#14
NickH Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 647	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben The Arrow is currently only used by EFT students who also use the school for their JAA CPL. The PPL students fly in the 172's. The J-3 Used to be used for spin endorsements, but these are now done elsewhere so the J-3 is unused.

June 3rd, 2006, 21:38	#16
lowery21 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 82	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben "The J-3 Used to be used for spin endorsements, but these are now done elsewhere so the J-3 is unused." I was there when we got the cub and I never saw it used. I think eventually they plan to do spin/tailwheel ends. with it. ...plus its more fun with Mr Bent. __________________ Never ask someone if they are from Texas. If they are, they will tell you. If they aren't, you don't want to embarrass them.

June 3rd, 2006, 23:54	#18
S.T.Aviator Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Posts: 460	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben Hey guys. It's 11.42 a.m right now in Toronto and I am doing my usual last minute packing for my flight tomorrow from YYZ to MCO. I'm coming down with two of my friends for a week of exploring Florida from Orlando to KeyWest and to check out my favorite school "Ari Ben Aviator". I am looking forward to meeting all the JC'rs at the school and am mentaly preparing for the heat and humidity. And for all AriBen prospects reading this post, I will post a detailed description of my trip when I get back. I am confident my experience will be pleasant as it has been for most of the visitors to the school. See you guys in a week.

June 4th, 2006, 00:00	#20
S.T.Aviator Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Posts: 460	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben LOL. wooops. 11.42 pm

June 4th, 2006, 13:19	#21
USMC-SGT Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Posts: 1,065	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben I heard that the J-3 was in a hanger and does not fly. I dont know if that is because no one uses it or because it is not airworthy. I have a small handful of tailwheel hours and would love to see it up in the air and rentable by next spring when i am there, cant be some low and slow with the doors open in a J-3 when it is 99 degrees with 100 percent humidity __________________ .....i have two speeds, walk and kill

June 4th, 2006, 15:05	#22
hattrick Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: farther north than the rest of you Posts: 312	Re: I took a visit to Ari-Ben as far as i know mike has owned the j-3 for quite a while although it never flew when i was there and sounds like it still doesnt. i think it needs some work done but even if it were ready to fly right now i doubt mike would let people. its kinda like his baby and i know if i had one i sure as hell wouldnt let anyone near it __________________ from a student following a rather rough, well for lack of a better term landing: "but when i crash its on centerline."

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