What's the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

[Tired]

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Remember on a one hour flight you are only paying for twelve minutes before and after the flight.

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Thats a hell of a lot of money for only 12 minutes or even 24 for that matter.

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How is that? On a on hour flight you pay for 1.0 brief time for the time spent with the instructor during the flight, and .4 for the pre and post brief. That .4 = 24 minutes, or 12 minutes before and after each flight. Are you a CFI? I am and that doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

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Interestingly, the biggest whiner here about this policy is FLDiver, who never really attended the school.

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Tired, you will really fit into upper level management very well. You, like the Pan Am admin., do not listen to a thing the students (customers) have to say. Tired, your name is appropriate, when you are tired, your brain shuts down and by that ignorant statement (above) you have obviously NOT read my previous posts that have been going on for well over a year. If you had indeed read my posts you will see that I DID in fact attend Pan Am at the FPR facility. It seems to me that the DVT facility is run somewhat differently than the FPR facility, but I really can't say because I have never been to the DVT facility, therefore I do not comment on it. Have you been to the FPR facility???

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Yes I know you. You are the guy that signed up, and then had some lame reason for not showing up. Then you didn't follow the written procedure for not showing up. Pan Am held up their end of the contract....you didn't. When I said you never really went to the school I meant that as far as I know you didn't take that many flights there, meaning you couldn't have built up a large amount of brief time to complain about. Hey, at least I started spelling your name correctly. BTW, I've never been to FPR.


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Hopefully you can agree that putting up with an inconvenient schedule does have benefits.

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Yeah, but what about putting up with admin.and their arrogance, inflexible scheduling and accounting problems. Is it worth it??? I don't think so.

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What does that statment have to do with what my statement there was directed towards? If your going to bring up new complaints why don't you start a new post in this thread and explain them for everyone.

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there are advantages to attending Pan Am. You’ll learn to fly in a nice facility in brand new aircraft

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Yes, but at a premium price. Why not get the exact same ratings elsewhere for considerably cheaper and less hassle with admin problems.

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Sure, same thing could be said about Ridde, Flightsafety, GTA, and so on. All those schools will charge you same for ratings you can get for a third of the cost somewhere else.

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be held to high standards.

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High standards or ridiculous and inflexible rules, designed to rob students of their loan money, which they have absolutely no control over.

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Huh? What I was trying to say is that Pan Am will hold train you to high standards. I've flown and worked at other schools where the quality was much worse. Explain how high quality robs the students of loan money.

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Once you become an instructor you’ll build time quickly, and you’ll get those precious multi-engine hours. Students will be assigned to you so you won’t have to wait behind the counter all day for potential students to come through the door.

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That is IF you become an instructor. It is popular information that the Pan Am admin has to like you in order to hire you. Or, you can be hired on (as per contract) but they dont have to give you any students. Why take that chance?

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What are you taking about. Everyone that I know that got their MEI has become a instructor, and they are getting students. Also, this is with no year-long waiting list, unlike some other schools.

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The ACE program , I don’t know much about it (panampilot, help here?), but people seem to be getting hired with pretty low time.

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Ahh, the good ole ACE program. Tired, if you are an instructor at Pan Am, why don't you know about this program?? Just curious is all. Everyone knows this is a cash cow for Pan Am. While the jury is still out about if it is truley worth the 7K you spend for nonloggable time, any experience is good experience...agreed?? However, Pan Am has moved this program to a much earlier stage in a students career program. Then Pan Am boasts that ALL the new hires are ACE grads. Well, this makes a hell of a lot of sense. Since Pan Am forces students to take the ACE program early (strictly for profit), of course ALL of thier newly hired grads will be ACE grads...its like saying that all new hires are also Private Pilots. Get the gist??

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Hmm...before blasting me for not reading all your posts on the board maybe you should go back and read mine. Since you didn't I'll spell it out for you here. I did not take the ACE program. I did not do any training at Pan Am. Now go and hold yourself to the standards you hold me to.

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I’d have to say that Pan Am students and instructors have it pretty good.

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I will agree with you here. Again, pretty, new, air conditioned aircraft (while nice)come at an extreme cost to the student. Why pay for all of the mumbo jumbo when you can get the same ratings, the same quality training and with less hassle, less cost, and a lot of times, faster than you can at Pan Am? In reality, all you are paying for at Pan Am is a name.
Prospective students, protect your assets. Go to a place where YOU and YOU alone control your money and schedule. Go to a place that values you as a customer and appreciates your business. Learn a lesson from the ATA students, don't place all of your eggs in one basket, you never know who is next to go belly up and take your money with them. The bank could care less, as long as YOU pay your monthly loan payment. Especially in this economy, you have to protect yourself and your assets. One of the best ways to do this is NOT to attend Pan Am. I am done for now.

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Um, when you enrolled you weren't aware that you were going to pay a premium? To some people what Pan Am offeres if worthwhile, and to you it isn't. Nothing wrong with that, that is why there are other schools.

[panampilot]

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What are you taking about. Everyone that I know that got their MEI has become a instructor, and they are getting students. Also, this is with no year-long waiting list, unlike some other schools.

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I'll back up Tired on this one. Pan Am has never had a problem of not having enough students for instructors. In fact we were at such a shortage at one point that we allowed students start instructing with just their intial CFI and they finished up the program on the side. If you want to have a job right after finishing up and not waiting around, there is no better place than Pan Am.

[dakovich]

hey turk, has panam lowered the tuition?? when i first started the cost was about $55,000, a few months later though they raised their prices and the total from beginning to end was more near $57,500. just wondering if thing have changed and they actually lowered cost in some way.

by the way, congrats on doing so well with your training...but when i was there, what you have accomplished was very very rare. you should be very proud of yourself, you've obviously been working very hard. keep it up

[pure_IMC]

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I'll back up Tired on this one. Pan Am has never had a problem of not having enough students for instructors. In fact we were at such a shortage at one point that we allowed students start instructing with just their intial CFI and they finished up the program on the side. If you want to have a job right after finishing up and not waiting around, there is no better place than Pan Am.

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Well I dont know about dvt, but fpr is on a waitlist. Probably for at least a year.

[Tired]

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Well I dont know about dvt, but fpr is on a waitlist. Probably for at least a year.

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Well, it was bound to happen. Although we haven't hit bottom yet I hope it happens soon.

[pure_IMC]

Hope what happens soon?

[Billybob]

Tired: We have a perfect safety record? In how many years of operation?!! Two or three maybe? Please, go back to statistics 101 and look up the phrase "valid comparison". Time will tell how the safety record plays. Also, if you look at similar learning institutions (let's say graduate schools) now and throughout history you will note that students are alloted short mental breaks (ie, they don't do school 7 days a week). Why? Because it's a proven fact that learning diminishes without a certain amount of alleviation from the focus of the curriculum. In other words, learning goes downhill and thus the quality does as well. In the end, students may end up paying more by repeating lessons because the learning dynamic is shot. And as for Pan Am being the best place for instructor hours, why don't you ask the last group of CFI's who were hired in December how many students they have? I'll tell you the answer:ZERO. The list is getting longer with a potential wait (from what I was told) from eigth months to a year. Now that's a long time to sit on your logbook.

[panampilot]

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And as for Pan Am being the best place for instructor hours, why don't you ask the last group of CFI's who were hired in December how many students they have? I'll tell you the answer:ZERO. The list is getting longer with a potential wait (from what I was told) from eigth months to a year. Now that's a long time to sit on your logbook.

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Make sure you specify between FPR and DVT because that is certainly not the case here in Phoenix. Because if you were TOLD that was the case here in Phoenix then you heard wrong.