PPL Part 61 or 141

FrequentFlyer · February 17th, 2006, 19:16

Hi

I was wondering if someone could help me out as to wether there is significant difference between the training quality/syllabus of a part 61 PPL and a part 141 ppl.

Which is the better one to do?

Also would any one be able to recommend any good ground school PPL study packs, as I aim to pass PPL ground school before coming to Ari Ben.

Would I need to get the specific manuals for part 61 or part 141 respectively?

Thanks
FF

SmitteyB · February 18th, 2006, 18:21

I had the unique experience as to train in both a 141 and 61 environment for my Private Single.

Try to remember that a 141 program is government approved and mandated, so requirements will be stricter and expectations higher. There will be stage checks with a chief pilot, as well as stage tests. I did half of my private single in NY at a 141 college. I then came to Aviator and completed it Part 61. There are basically no tests or stage checks (besides the pre-solo written and Private written).

So, in a 61 Private there is no syllabus. Simple as that. Let me correct myself, FAR 61.103. Basically the 141 program is more like a class/structured system.

Good luck with your groundschool!

FrequentFlyer · February 18th, 2006, 19:36

Hi Smittey B

Thanks for the response. Yes, I have been scouring the forums for some time now in relation to this 61 vs 141 issue. I mean I have no problem with being checked etc and training in a structured environment.

I am quite used to that having gone through school, college, uni for my bachelors then for my masters so im used to the whole expectations standards thing etc. Obviously, the other issue remains about the reduction in hours, this is not really an issue for me as I would rather do more hours to 'hone' any areas to be safe and competent pilot who enjoys flying rather than concern myself with trying to get thru in the minimum time. If that makes sense?

I have phoned up numerous schools and asked them and they have left it down to me.

I guess the primary issue is whether going part 141 makes u a better/safer pilot than going part 61?

I will need to research this further I think..

FF

SkyPig · February 18th, 2006, 19:50

Hey, FrequentFlyer
Like SmitteyB said above. 141 is structured, as in an approved syllabus by FAA. 61 sounds like to me the syllabus is individual intructor governed "ie He/She will teach what they feel you need to know" I could be wrong though. 141 just sounds to me personally better, just so I know nothing was left out of my training. But I'm sure either one trains great pilots. Just my thoughts

Monty · February 18th, 2006, 19:53

In my opinion, Part 141 isn't going to make you any better of a pilot than Part 61 training will. The biggest benefit to 141 is it simply gets you done faster. You are still going to be required to do the same type of training and be held to the same PTS standards no matter which part you train under.

FrequentFlyer · February 18th, 2006, 20:15

Whats PTS

What do most people go for?

Monty · February 18th, 2006, 21:21

PTS = Practical Test Standards......basically all of the areas the FAA will test you on.

Most of the larger flight schools are going with Part 141 so they can get guys done quicker. I believe that The Aviator is trying to get their entire program to 141 now. The Pro Course currently is Part 141 and 61 depending on the rating you are working on.

There are some large schools that prefer 61 though. If I am not mistaken, I believe that ATP still does all of their training under Part 61.

I guess the condensed version of the story is there really isn't a wrong way to do it. It is more about what type of schedule and time frame you want to complete things in than anything else. Hope that helps somewhat!

FrequentFlyer · February 18th, 2006, 21:39

Oh I see, based on the fact that Aviator are trying to get everything over to Part 141 now..this leads me onto the aspect of ground school.

I have decided to buy the Jeppensen PPL Study Pack, its available in Part 61 and Part 141, so if I am correct then logic would reason that the sensible choice would be to go for Part 141 Pack as the content of the handbook should be the same as Part 61 (i.e. Flight Maneuvers book etc)and the only difference should (in theory) be just the other additional books that have been added to the Part 141 Pack such as Stage Check Manuals etc..

Slowly but surely my database of knowledge is increasing thanks to all you great folks!

The search function helps too

FF

greaper007 · February 19th, 2006, 10:52

Ground schools are great, but I find that I normally learn most of my stuff from a manual/book when it comes to the knowledge. Go either way for the private stuff 141 or 61. I'd probably just do what's cheaper.

When 141 becomes nice is with your instrument training. You can cut out the 50 hours of solo cross country time. In that situation it's worth it. Though all those hours matter for you commercial certificate. Again, I'd just go with the cheapest option.

FrequentFlyer · February 19th, 2006, 11:25

Having read Greaper's and Smitty's post, I think I made a real 'dumb' mistake when Greaper says that 'Groundschool is great'..

What I meant to say was that I would purchase the materials i.e. study pack and learn it myself through self-study..

I take it thats not the same as ground school?

So to rephrase then would either of those 2 previously mentioned packs either 61 or 141 be enough to teach me the 'knowledge' of the PPL and to aid me in passing the FAA Oral and Writtens for the PPL?

I was thinking of taking the Rod Machado Private Pilot Handbook combined with either the Gleim or Jep Pack to self-study (I know I have probably hammered it home already but I' m still getting used to the terms

sorry )

FF

SmitteyB · February 19th, 2006, 16:44

Your private single here at Aviator will be 61. I would still buy the Jeppessen Private package, its great.

Not to disagree with Monty, but 61 is MUCH faster at times. For instance...in the private single. In a 141 enviornment there is 4...count them 4 stage checks! In that special instance, a Part 61 program would be much faster. Sorry Twant.

Monty · February 19th, 2006, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

but 61 is MUCH faster at times

Oh Smittey....you never cease to amaze me! You should have done your instrument Part 61 and told me how that worked out for you.

hattrick · February 19th, 2006, 21:07

now now dont bash someone just because their ignorant. lol no really i happen to agree with smittey that the 61 private could be done a lot faster. i guess we would agree though seeing as i taught him everything he knows. well the stuff that counts atleast.

SmitteyB · February 19th, 2006, 21:18

Monty,
I never said that the instrument could be done faster 61, only the private single. Please don't put words into my mouth, or you will regret it....seriously. Sorry Twant.

Hattrick,
I'm like a small Andy Casey. Isn't it satisfying? How are you doing anyways up there in the great white north my friend? PM me.

subpilot · February 19th, 2006, 22:01

I agree, pt 61 private can be much faster because you don't have all the red tape.

kailuaboy · February 19th, 2006, 23:20

nice avtar pic subpilot? which island was that taken on?

Monty · February 20th, 2006, 01:15

Now Smittey, I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth. And get this....I actually agree with you on the Private Single Part 61. I just like the 141 for the Instrument and Commercial. It makes a huge difference on those ratings.

subpilot · February 20th, 2006, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kailuaboy

nice avtar pic subpilot? which island was that taken on?

Paradise Cove. We played tourist that day.

February 17th, 2006, 19:16	#1
FrequentFlyer Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 15	PPL Part 61 or 141 Hi I was wondering if someone could help me out as to wether there is significant difference between the training quality/syllabus of a part 61 PPL and a part 141 ppl. Which is the better one to do? Also would any one be able to recommend any good ground school PPL study packs, as I aim to pass PPL ground school before coming to Ari Ben. Would I need to get the specific manuals for part 61 or part 141 respectively? Thanks FF

February 18th, 2006, 18:21	#2
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,974	I had the unique experience as to train in both a 141 and 61 environment for my Private Single. Try to remember that a 141 program is government approved and mandated, so requirements will be stricter and expectations higher. There will be stage checks with a chief pilot, as well as stage tests. I did half of my private single in NY at a 141 college. I then came to Aviator and completed it Part 61. There are basically no tests or stage checks (besides the pre-solo written and Private written). So, in a 61 Private there is no syllabus. Simple as that. Let me correct myself, FAR 61.103. Basically the 141 program is more like a class/structured system. Good luck with your groundschool! __________________ ALPA Organizing Committee Member SAAB First Officer

February 18th, 2006, 19:50	#4
SkyPig Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14	Hey, FrequentFlyer Like SmitteyB said above. 141 is structured, as in an approved syllabus by FAA. 61 sounds like to me the syllabus is individual intructor governed "ie He/She will teach what they feel you need to know" I could be wrong though. 141 just sounds to me personally better, just so I know nothing was left out of my training. But I'm sure either one trains great pilots. Just my thoughts __________________ "The only easy day was yesterday" "Second place is the first loosers" "Be careful the ass you kick today, may be attached to the feet your kissing tomorrow"

February 19th, 2006, 10:52	#9
greaper007 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: West Hartford, Ct Posts: 1,128	Ground schools are great, but I find that I normally learn most of my stuff from a manual/book when it comes to the knowledge. Go either way for the private stuff 141 or 61. I'd probably just do what's cheaper. When 141 becomes nice is with your instrument training. You can cut out the 50 hours of solo cross country time. In that situation it's worth it. Though all those hours matter for you commercial certificate. Again, I'd just go with the cheapest option. __________________ <<<<<Hunter S. Thompson extends the Gonzo concept to flying.

February 19th, 2006, 16:44	#11
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,974	Your private single here at Aviator will be 61. I would still buy the Jeppessen Private package, its great. Not to disagree with Monty, but 61 is MUCH faster at times. For instance...in the private single. In a 141 enviornment there is 4...count them 4 stage checks! In that special instance, a Part 61 program would be much faster. Sorry Twant. __________________ ALPA Organizing Committee Member SAAB First Officer

February 18th, 2006, 19:36	#3
FrequentFlyer Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 15	Hi Smittey B Thanks for the response. Yes, I have been scouring the forums for some time now in relation to this 61 vs 141 issue. I mean I have no problem with being checked etc and training in a structured environment. I am quite used to that having gone through school, college, uni for my bachelors then for my masters so im used to the whole expectations standards thing etc. Obviously, the other issue remains about the reduction in hours, this is not really an issue for me as I would rather do more hours to 'hone' any areas to be safe and competent pilot who enjoys flying rather than concern myself with trying to get thru in the minimum time. If that makes sense? I have phoned up numerous schools and asked them and they have left it down to me. I guess the primary issue is whether going part 141 makes u a better/safer pilot than going part 61? I will need to research this further I think.. FF

February 18th, 2006, 19:53	#5
Monty Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: PHL Posts: 273	In my opinion, Part 141 isn't going to make you any better of a pilot than Part 61 training will. The biggest benefit to 141 is it simply gets you done faster. You are still going to be required to do the same type of training and be held to the same PTS standards no matter which part you train under.

February 18th, 2006, 20:15	#6
FrequentFlyer Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 15	Whats PTS What do most people go for?

February 18th, 2006, 21:21	#7
Monty Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: PHL Posts: 273	PTS = Practical Test Standards......basically all of the areas the FAA will test you on. Most of the larger flight schools are going with Part 141 so they can get guys done quicker. I believe that The Aviator is trying to get their entire program to 141 now. The Pro Course currently is Part 141 and 61 depending on the rating you are working on. There are some large schools that prefer 61 though. If I am not mistaken, I believe that ATP still does all of their training under Part 61. I guess the condensed version of the story is there really isn't a wrong way to do it. It is more about what type of schedule and time frame you want to complete things in than anything else. Hope that helps somewhat!

February 18th, 2006, 21:39	#8
FrequentFlyer Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 15	Oh I see, based on the fact that Aviator are trying to get everything over to Part 141 now..this leads me onto the aspect of ground school. I have decided to buy the Jeppensen PPL Study Pack, its available in Part 61 and Part 141, so if I am correct then logic would reason that the sensible choice would be to go for Part 141 Pack as the content of the handbook should be the same as Part 61 (i.e. Flight Maneuvers book etc)and the only difference should (in theory) be just the other additional books that have been added to the Part 141 Pack such as Stage Check Manuals etc.. Slowly but surely my database of knowledge is increasing thanks to all you great folks! The search function helps too FF

February 19th, 2006, 11:25	#10
FrequentFlyer Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 15	Having read Greaper's and Smitty's post, I think I made a real 'dumb' mistake when Greaper says that 'Groundschool is great'.. What I meant to say was that I would purchase the materials i.e. study pack and learn it myself through self-study.. I take it thats not the same as ground school? So to rephrase then would either of those 2 previously mentioned packs either 61 or 141 be enough to teach me the 'knowledge' of the PPL and to aid me in passing the FAA Oral and Writtens for the PPL? I was thinking of taking the Rod Machado Private Pilot Handbook combined with either the Gleim or Jep Pack to self-study (I know I have probably hammered it home already but I' m still getting used to the terms sorry ) FF

February 19th, 2006, 21:07	#13
hattrick Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: farther north than the rest of you Posts: 317	now now dont bash someone just because their ignorant. lol no really i happen to agree with smittey that the 61 private could be done a lot faster. i guess we would agree though seeing as i taught him everything he knows. well the stuff that counts atleast.

February 19th, 2006, 21:18	#14
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,974	Monty, I never said that the instrument could be done faster 61, only the private single. Please don't put words into my mouth, or you will regret it....seriously. Sorry Twant. Hattrick, I'm like a small Andy Casey. Isn't it satisfying? How are you doing anyways up there in the great white north my friend? PM me. __________________ ALPA Organizing Committee Member SAAB First Officer

February 19th, 2006, 22:01	#15
subpilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 766	I agree, pt 61 private can be much faster because you don't have all the red tape. __________________ Together We Served "Helicopters don't actually fly. They just beat the air into submission." -Firebird2XC

February 19th, 2006, 23:20	#16
kailuaboy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CLE Posts: 302	nice avtar pic subpilot? which island was that taken on?

February 20th, 2006, 01:15	#17
Monty Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: PHL Posts: 273	Now Smittey, I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth. And get this....I actually agree with you on the Private Single Part 61. I just like the 141 for the Instrument and Commercial. It makes a huge difference on those ratings.

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