Logging PIC as a safety pilot?

[mooneypilot]

How does one go about logging PIC time while acting as a safety pilot? I agree that if you are paying for 100 hours PIC you should get 100 hours PIC. I'm seriously thinking about going to Ari Ben next month. Looking into the 100 hour special + multi rating. Does anyone know if the hours needed to obtain the rating deduct from the 100 hours, as obviously I wouldn't be able to log PIC until I got the rating?

Thanks

[B]

As stated many times before there have been several legal decisions on the subject of logging PIC and acting as PIC. If you look in the FAA's part 61/91 FAQ you will find that you are a required crew member as a safety pilot and are responsible for he safety of the flight while performing such duties. The person under the hood is the sole manipulator of the controls so they also can log PIC time. Just be sure you only log the time when one of you is under the hood. You can find several schools out there that have other “creative” ideas to build time, but I would not go there.

[ShoreFly]

I'm really weary of the whole safety pilot concept now that I'm at a regional.
I was fortunate that I had zero safety pilot hours (VA student), because when I interviewed, every pilot in my group with more than a few (let's say 10) hours of safety pilot time was turned away. I spoke with a few, and they said that the safety pilot issue came up a few times during the interview process, and felt that the interviewers don't really appreciate this method of building PIC.

Just something to consider.

[Getburned]

Really? Why do so many guys from ATP get hired at Express jet. Don't they do the safety pilot thing? I don't disagree with you, especially if you have a ton of safety pilot time in your book.

[ShoreFly]

I think there's some kind of agreement between ATP & XJT. If guys were hired with lots of safety time here, maybe the focus on the matter has changed as of late, or perhaps they had some other multi-PIC time.
Bottom line is, I'm just sharing MY experience, and can't speak for everyone.

[aloft]

There's no requirement to identify safety pilot time in your logbook as such. It's simply VFR PIC. The only time anything related to a safety pilot needs to be entered in your logbook is when you're under the hood, in which case your safety pilot's name must be listed.

[zerouniform]

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;

(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.

(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor.

(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot—

(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;

(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part; and

(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.



In summary: there are only 4 times when you can log PIC.
1. Student Pilot Soloing
2. Flight Instructing
3. Sole Manipulator
4. ATP

I personally would not log safety pilot time as PIC because you are not a required crewmember under the type certificate of the aircraft.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by zerouniform

I personally would not log safety pilot time as PIC because you are not a required crewmember under the type certificate of the aircraft.

...but a safety pilot is a required crewmember under "the regulations under which the flight is conducted", thus perfectly acceptable to log PIC. (She could also log SIC instead of PIC, but that's 'nother story - search my posts with "SIC" for further info.)

[greaper007]

I'm not sure why airlines would care. If I were an airline and this process bothered me I'd just cut the safety pilot time in half. You have to figure half the 100 hours is flown by you in the right seat.

[SteveC]

For a little more clarification, I stole this from MidlifeFlyer's FAQ (thanks Mark!):

Here's what the FAA Chief Legal Counsel said about it more than 10 years ago in 1992:

In your second question you ask "how shall two Private Pilots log their flight time when one pilot is under the hood for simulated instrument time and the other pilot acts as safety pilot?" The answer is the pilot who is under the hood may log PIC time for that flight time in which he is the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft, provided he is rated for that aircraft. The appropriately rated safety pilot may concurrently log as second in command (SIC) that time during which he is acting as safety pilot.

The two pilots may, however, agree prior to initiating the flight that the safety pilot will be the PIC responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during the flight. If this is done, then the safety pilot may log all the flight time as PIC time in accordance with FAR 1.1 and the pilot under the hood may log, concurrently, all of the flight time during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time in accordance with FAR 61.51(c)(2)(i). Enclosed please find a prior FAA interpretation concerning the logging of flight time under simulated instrument flight conditions. We hope that this interpretation will be of further assistance to you.

[mooneypilot]

SteveC's info from the FAA's Chief Legal Counsel was especially helpful, thanks Steve. So basically, make an agreement with the person flying under the hood before hand and it is totally legal? As to the logging of the PIC hours. The Safety pilot would log VFR PIC and the person under the hood would log Simulated IFR PIC with the Safety Pilot's name? I emailed Ari about this but didn't really get an explanation. I just want to make sure I cover all my bases and do this right. I am planning on making the trip to Ft. Pierce mid Febuary. Thanks for the insight.