A positive perspective of the Aviator

Aviator_Instructor · November 9th, 2005, 22:42

I have sat here and read threads within this forum for a while and it is only now that I have decided to post. I am an instructor at the school and have been here long enough to know how things work and how they could probably work a little better. I am not here to start a verbal war with anyone, only to give a different view as to some of the posters that have written before me. In no way shape or form am I associated with management. This is my view, and that alone.
If you are prepared to work, and I mean really prepared to come here and dedicate yourself for 6 months, the pro-course can be accomplished on time, AND on budget. Some students, not all, come here and think that they can breeze through all of the ratings and certificates with little to no effort. You can not get by doing that, not in aviation, not in any career. It just does not happen. You have to work, and work hard.
Other posters on here have written about people taking along time to do the initial instructor rating. The reason, in my opinion, is because certain students do not continue to study through-out course. Sure, we had hurricanes down here and the planes/airport was out of commission for 3 days, big deal. Yes, for a month or so we did not have another 2 year CFI. If you were ready for your MEI, Pierre (our Chief Pilot) would have flown with you. He is busy, and you would have to get up and be there for 6 in the morning, but he would put you on the schedule and fly with you. People who take 5 and 6 months from the time they get the single commercial and to the time they take the MEI, have not been studying for the entire time. Did I do the entire course in 6 months, NO. Was this due to the school? No. I know that I did not apply myself for the entire 6 months. It is a hard course and requires intense study and dedication for the entire time. In my opinion it is the hardest rating you will aquire. The ATP certificate is hard, but it is an instrument rating with tighter tollerances.
Some posters have mentioned that people should attend schools that get the MEI, CFI and CFII done in 10 to 14 days. To those who wrote that, remember back to when you were a student and ask yourselves ' Would you prefer to have an instructor who did all of there instructor ratings in 2 weeks and then passed these checkrides with in-house examiners, or, with an instructor who worked on these ratings for 2 months and then took a checkride with the Orlando FSDO'. I am not saying that one place is better than another, only that getting the ratings done in minimal time may not be for the best.
Maintainance seems to be an issue for some posters as well. These planes are safe. They are not 2004, glass cockpit Seminoles. If you want that, you can pay the outrageous prices that are found in Vero Beach. Mike will tell you that from the start. The planes are definitely safe though. If they are not, the instructor or student should write it up and it will get fixed, either at that time, if the plane is not airworthy, or at the 100 hourly. The reason that all but one plane was 'down' a month or so ago was because no-one was writing it up. Finally, maintanance could could not do all the work at once and the fleet was grounded. Mike and Ed encourages us all, students and instructors alike, to write the problems up. All 'write ups' must be looked at, by law, and the 'write up' kept for a period of time. They are actioned upon ASAP most of the time. If an ADF is broken, for obvious reasons, Mike is not going to 'down' that plane until it is fixed. He and Ed will wait for the 100 hourly, when it must, by law, be serviced and then have it fixed. Remember that this is a flight school and that planes will go down from time to time. It is not very often that I can not find another airplane to fly in if mine goes down for maintainance.
Finally, stop this personal bashing of the management. If you are so unhappy with the school, it's planes, management, the instructors, please leave. Why would you continue to put money into a place that you do not like. You have multi time from the money you have spent, so it is not like you have nothing to show for it. Move on people.Mike is running a business. So is T.J. Mike tells EVERYONE who does this program, that they need to study, that the planes do not have all the bells and whistles and we do not have the huge buildings that are found to the north of us. But, the planes are safe and if you are prepared to work, you will walk away with you MEI, CFI and CFII with alot of multi-time. Mike is quirky, I will say that, but a liar, a greedy Texan, and any of the other personal attacks is just plain incorrect and very unfair.
I think that I have expressed my views here enough. I hope that this has been somewhat informative to those that are interested in coming here or even to those that are here. It is a hard road to walk this one and blaming others for ALL of someones shortcomings is just not right.

A_I

johnd1982 · November 9th, 2005, 23:10

Good to see someone writing a nice message about the school finally!!

I came to the school to do my PMEL,Instrument,CMEL&CSEL (all part 61) and I managed to do them in 4 weeks, exactly on my time budget, lowerer than my projected money budget, and within my flight time budget!!
I think if you are willing to put in the work and expain to your instructor at the start what you want to achieve, then it is more than possible!

I intend to return next month to complete my CFI/CFII/MEI, and I will have a realistic approach as to how long it should take me, and what is required of me!

As for the staff and management at the school, they are some of the friendliest and most helpful people I have encountered. Treat them like human beings with feelings, rather than message board bashing them, and they will be more than willing to help you!

I wish the school all the best, I shall be returning soon to complete my ratings, and I certainly wouldn't consider taking my business anywhere else!!

John D

Catherine · November 10th, 2005, 11:45

Excellent post. I've been running like mad trying to get things ready to come down there myself. I'm hoping next week right now, but I have one more big thing and several small things to take care of before that happens and hopefully it will get taken care of this weekend. Everyone I've spoken with there has been kind and helpful and although I didn't always get to talk to Mike when I would call I always managed to get to him and he always took the time to answer my questions and be open with me. I'm looking forward to arriving there soon and starting my schooling.

Catherine

doubleo6point9 · November 11th, 2005, 01:02

After reading all of the stuff that's been flying around here I guess i'll put in a bit about my experience there.

I flew down to to the Aviator about a year ago to take a quick tour of the place and to talk to a few people before deciding on where to go to get my multi-comm-inst add on and build some multi time. Mike was more than helpful in giving me a tour of the place personally and answered all of my questions to my satisfaction. After the tour I decided that the aviator was the place I wanted to be at and a few months later I was down there ready to start flying.

In the beginning the one major problem that I thought I was going to run into delt specifically with housing because of the recent hurricanes. A few weeks before I went down I kept calling to confirm if i'd have housing or not and the answer I got was "we're working on it, but regardless you'll have a place to stay even if we have to put you in a hotel." Well I wasn't so sure of things but I went anyways and when I arrived James had worked things out with Mike and they found an apartment for me to stay at up in Vero. And let me point out, I can't say enough nice things about James because of all the help he gave me. At one point he even offered a couch at his place if there were no other alternatives to the housing problems. And if you're reading this James, you're the man and if you still want a job at lakes give me a holla and i'll try to hook it up. Anyways with the housing deal worked out and the paperwork out of the way I started flying the very first day I got there. Things went on schedule at the pace that I wanted to fly at and I never had any problems with the airplanes. Also, at one point I was curious about my key loan being delayed because I needed the extra money to help pay for my cost of living and pay my bills while i was out of town for a month. At first it was kind of a pain in the butt to deal with TJ because she didn't really seem to want to deal with anything at all. So after basically getting the brush off I found Mike, told him about my problems and before I knew it I had a check in my hand and was told where to cash it. Essentially Mike had loaned me some extra money to cover the cost of living while I was there until the loan deal was figured out. I also have to point out that Mike was allowing me to fly his planes before he even got the payment from Key Bank. He told me we'd just work it out later and to keep on flying.

Now i'm sure everyone's situation is different and i'm sure things have changed. But I can honestly say that I felt I was treated very fairly and everyone at the Aviator did their best to keep me on budget. Best of all, I finished on time and slighty above my budget because I spent alittle more than I had thought when we flew down to the Bahamas. Either way, both Mike and James definately helped me out alot and I had a great experience flying down there.

maverick2 · November 12th, 2005, 19:04

I've been here for nearly three and a half months now. In that time, I've completed my private-single, private multi, and half of the instrument course. So far I have no complaints. The air conditioning at the house I was staying at broke and Mike had someone to replace the whole system in two days. Mike offered to put me up in a hotel for the time the air conditioning was out, but I refused because it wasnt that bad. Also, there's a cleaning lady that came around the houses once a month to clean up the bathrooms, kitchen, and vacuum the floors. When I told Mike I was moving out of his housing, he offered to help and made sure that I would be ok, and Peggy gave me back cash for the gym membership. Pierre helped me thru the VA reimbursement process after a few reminders. It took us about a week to get the paperwork done. The trick is to remind him everytime you see him. I have asked TJ a few times about my billing and contract to double check and she always seemed willing to help. The planes do go down, but its mainly because gets flown so much, and doing single engine emergency procedures all day, and time building all night, and after about a week to ten days, the plane goes down for 100 hr. Some of the students and instructors that were here for at least 18 months say there a way more students then when they first got here. So the student body is growing with same amount of planes and mechanics. I think Mike realizes this and he's doing his best to accomodate this. I dont know where I'm going with this post, but I just want to say I have no complaints so far.

Galil · November 13th, 2005, 13:35

WOW!!!!!!!

Finaly some true feedback on the Aviator!

I called Mike Cohen last night at about 8:00 made a few jokes and a few minutes of small talk. His biggest concern was not Jetcareers or even talking about his school, he was more interested in my son that was just born and a friend of ours that has moved on.

That and what was posted above describes Mike and his school best.

Florida_Flyer · November 13th, 2005, 19:29

A lot of what has been said here is true. I can think of many positive things about Aviator. There are people, James, Mary, Pierre, Cindy and all of the instructors who will do there best to help you through your training. These are the people who realy manage Aviator. Without them the wheels would fall off the Aviator wagon.

However there are a few things that I just can't agree with on this thread. I don't like posting anything negative but it seems I'm the only one prepared to give a different perspective of Aviator. Before I came to this school I read the Ariben forum on JC and things seemed to be all sweetness and light. I wish someone had the guts to give a different perspective and help me make an informed choice. Some of what Aviator_Instructor says is true but I just can't agree with some things.

Quote:

If you are prepared to work, and I mean really prepared to come here and dedicate yourself for 6 months, the pro-course can be accomplished on time, AND on budget.

So, who was the last person to complete the course in six months including instructor ratings? Can you name a couple of the twenty current instructors that completed the course in this time? As for completing on budget that is hard, mainly because of the extra months that the course WILL take. Also, greedy MC has banned us from flying out the commercial requirements with a MEI timebuilder. One of my buddies spent an extra thousand bucks to do "training" that could have been done for no extra cost. He can thank MC for this. As for the instructor ratings, read my post on the instructor ratings thread. I would say it takes the average Aviator student an extra $6000 (due to extra living costs) and 9-12 months to complete the pro course. Do not come here expecting to finish on time and budget. If you want to get done fast and cheap go to ATP.

Quote:

Maintainance seems to be an issue for some posters as well. These planes are safe. They are not 2004, glass cockpit Seminoles. If you want that, you can pay the outrageous prices that are found in Vero Beach. Mike will tell you that from the start. The planes are definitely safe though.

I visited ATP last week. The aircraft are not 2004 Seminoles; in fact most were 1970's vintage, just like the Duchesses, renting for similar money. The ATP Semionoles were all in excellent condition with a standard avionics fit. The paint wasn't falling off 5090M style and they were not soaked in oil. If the plane isn't safe I ain't goin' but sometimes Aviator machines have broken in the air in a big way on me and my friends! It's always a good flight when you land with two working engines and a radio. ATP have far better MX and much nicer aircraft.

Quote:

If an ADF is broken, for obvious reasons, Mike is not going to 'down' that plane until it is fixed. He and Ed will wait for the 100 hourly, when it must, by law, be serviced and then have it fixed. Remember that this is a flight school and that planes will go down from time to time.

Dude, you're an instructor; you should know the regs, but I don't think you do! My instructor told me that to be airworthy the aircraft has to comply with its type certificate and type design. If an ADF is fitted and it's bust then the aircraft is not airworthy unless it's placarded inop. As for repairing the ADF at the 100 hour; hahahahaha, doesn't happen! We all know that the ADF's in 30K, 36M, 78D, 38D, 44T and others have been inop for a long time. Are they placarded inop? Perhaps Aviator Instructor might get the chance to explain to the Feds his version of the regs during a ramp check. Flying the aircraft like this is not strictly legal, no matter what MC and Ed will tell you.

Quote:

Finally, stop this personal bashing of the management. If you are so unhappy with the school, it's planes, management, the instructors, please leave. Why would you continue to put money into a place that you do not like. You have multi time from the money you have spent, so it is not like you have nothing to show for it. Move on people.Mike is running a business.

Well I would like to leave and I sure am working on it. It's not like choosing between NBC and ABC though. Once you are part way through training you are heavily commited. If I moved to ATP I would probably never be hired by them unless I complete the full course. To some extent I have to make a stand. Once I have the ratings I'm working on and there is no money left in my account though, goodbye.

Quote:

Mike tells EVERYONE who does this program, that they need to study, that the planes do not have all the bells and whistles and we do not have the huge buildings that are found to the north of us.

This is not what he told me! He told me that I would be done in six months if I worked hard. Well Mike, I have worked hard and so have many other people. Where are our ratings? I also believed that the aircraft would be in better condition. The ad in AOPA pilot said that they do have all the bells and whistles. WX radar, GPS on all and coupled autopilots. In reality you are lucky if the aircraft is airworthy; coupled AP's are an MC fantasy. And what is he telling people in his advertising now. Well, it seems that Mike is offering placement assistance with ASA and Sky West. Can anyone name one instructor who has been placed with these airlines? This is shameless lie and I am tempted to report Aviator to AOPA for false advertising.

Sorry to be negative again but I'm just speaking for the dozens of frustrated Aviators out there wanting to get done and get gone.

DE727UPS · November 13th, 2005, 19:58

"Before I came to this school I read the Ariben forum on JC and things seemed to be all sweetness and light. I wish someone had the guts to give a different perspective and help me make an informed choice"

I wouldn't base my decision on an internet message board. You need to tour all the schools you are considering and talk to other students off the property. It sounds like you are trying to blame JC for your choice.

"This is shameless lie and I am tempted to report Aviator to AOPA for false advertising"

You think they are gonna care? These flight school ads are big bucks to AOPA and Flight Training.

I think JC is a good place for people to express their opinions about a school, sort of like you are doing now. I think there is negative stuff about every big academy listed here at JC and it's there for everyone to consider.

JRiggle · November 13th, 2005, 23:27

I am a current Aviator Instructor. I haven't posted in a long time but because of Florida Flyer remarks I think it is time to speak out. It took me longer than 6 months to complete the program. But I slacked off with the studying and had to take time to stop flying and just study before moving on to the MEI. I did go over budget slightly because of this but nothing unreasonable. I got a little more time than what was quoted in the program so it cost a little more. I am not complaining, I got exactly what I paid for. It was a lot less than the $6,000 that Florida Flyer said was average. What little I did go over was my fault and not Aviator's!

Florida Flyer said that ATP was faster and a cheaper but according to the two websites ATP cost $13,000 more than Aviator. Hypothetically, if students at Aviator did go $6,000 over budget like Florida Flyer says then ATP would still be $7,000 more. I can't figure out how FL Flyer thinks ATP is cheaper.

Evidently Florida Flyer hasn't attended ATP so how can he say ATP is a better school. There is a lot more to maintenance than a fancy avionics stack and a shiny paint job. It is what you don't see under that shiny paint that is more important. Mike puts money into the Duchess for the important stuff.

As far as the airworthy condition of Aviator aircraft; I doubt they are any less airworthy than an ATP airplane. Even those shiny ATP Seminoles have scratches in the paint. Hey guess what? If the paint is scratched then it is not legally airworthy because that scratch in the paint was not part of the TCDS. While we are on the subject; to find out if an airplane is legally airworthy you have to do a lot of research through all the records to see if everything is current. For how many flights have you actually checked all the records and researched all the Ad's. You should legally check all that stuff before every flight. From what I have been told it takes about a day to check all the records and AD's or more. What is typically checked before flight is that the maintenance items have been completed such as the annual, 100 hour, etc, the proper documents are aboard and that the aircraft is in a safe condition for flight. During preflight you determine that the aircraft is in a safe condition for flight. Judgment is called for when preflighting. That scratch in the paint means that the aircraft is not strictly legal as far as the type certificate goes but it could still be in a safe condition for flight. I have seen brand new Cessnas that got an airworthiness certificate with minor defects in the paint. If you will only fly airplanes that are strictly legal then you will never fly again because the only airplanes that are completely strictly legal are airplane on the day they get their type certificate signed off by the FAA. Judgment has to be used to determine if an airplane is in a safe condition for flight. If you aren't sure don't fly it. It is not Mike or Ed's fault if you fly an airplane that you don't think should be flying, it is your!

Something people should think about before bashing a school is that pilots are a small community. Having a good reputation is critical in this industry. If your willing to bash a flight school then you would probably bash an airline if you got a job for them. What airline would want to hire someone like that? So unless you have some real evidence backing some real problem it would probably be in your best interest to keep your mouth shut.

Florida Flyer please just speak for yourself. If there are dozens of frustrated Aviator student then let them speak for themselves.

Florida Flyer things could improve at the Aviator if you would stop posting so mike would have time to do other things besides controlling the damage you are doing to the school.

When I was making my decision on which school to go to I seriously consider both ATP and Aviator. In the end I went with Aviator. I have not regretted it. Overall I have been happy with my experience here at Aviator.

DOTDASH · November 14th, 2005, 08:23

Florida_Flyer...

Everytime you open your mouth you sound more
like an idiot. Do your work for ATP

It sure sounds as though you
do. Please leave Aviator. We really don't want you there!

CommPilot76 · November 14th, 2005, 10:42

I would have to agree with Dotdash. If you are that unhappy Florida Flyer, you do you not just leave? Is it worth the misery you are obviously going threw to continue your training at the Aviator?

I have been at the Aviator for about 7 Months now and I love it here. Everyone in Management and all of the students that I interact with on a daily basis are always so nice and willing to help out whenever needed. Every time that I have went into MC's Office or TJ's office with a question regarding the training or my account they have always been more then happy to help me out.

I personally think that choosing the Aviator for my flight training is one of the best moves I have made in my life.

manolo1492 · November 14th, 2005, 20:17

Florida Flyer, would you mind sending me an IM with your name and address, don't worry I'll keep it a secret

jg1585 · November 14th, 2005, 21:53

$$$$$$$$. getcha some!!

Kristie · November 15th, 2005, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRiggle

Florida Flyer please just speak for yourself. If there are dozens of frustrated Aviator student then let them speak for themselves.

Florida Flyer things could improve at the Aviator if you would stop posting so mike would have time to do other things besides controlling the damage you are doing to the school.

I have to agree that you can only speak for yourself Florida Flyer - you can't be speaking for everyone else, they all have their own opinions and are more than welcome to express it.

Mike knows that one persons opinion on a message board doesn't do a whole lotta damage to the flight school...it would take a whole lotta people to do that and it really doesn't seem that the flight school has a problem! besides, they're only opinions....

how much more time and/or $$ do you have before you finish Florida Flyer? are you basing everything on Mike's "you'll finish in 6 months" statement?

Kristie · November 15th, 2005, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jg1585

$$$$$$$$. getcha some!!

uhhhh what's up with that?

jg1585 · November 16th, 2005, 01:27

ask florida flyer what it means

kailuaboy · November 17th, 2005, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Flyer

As for repairing the ADF at the 100 hour; hahahahaha, doesn't happen! We all know that the ADF's in 30K, 36M, 78D, 38D, 44T and others have been inop for a long time.

Just for clarification, the ADF's in 30K and 44T DO work. As an instructor, i should know; as youll usually see my name (Ivan) on those two aircraft for my instrument students.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Flyer

Once I have the ratings I'm working on and there is no money left in my account though, goodbye.

Let me know when this happens, we'll throw a party for you (seriously).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Flyer

Mike, I have worked hard and so have many other people. Where are our ratings?

Why are you asking mike? You and your instructor should sit down and talk about that. Its your fault if your not studying, its your instructors if your not flying. Ask my students; I can schedule two flights per student each day. I have an Instrument student that did Stage 1 in 5 days (stage check with pierre the next day), stage 2 in another 5 or 6 days (stage check with pierre), now on stage 3 with one lesson to go. If it were not for the hurricane and the fact that hes colorblind (in which he can not take his checkride, we're working on that though); he would have had his instrument rating in 3 weeks (pushing it), 4 weeks (reasonable). So, dont blame mike for something he cannot control..... what do you want him to do? Hold your hand and make you study?!?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Flyer

I also believed that the aircraft would be in better condition.

Then you should have visited the school first. You (im sure you HAD that luxoury). Everyone in the Cont. US can do that. I couldnt afford that. Im from hawaii and would not pay the $700 just to visit a school. So, I just picked up everything and moved here..... and WELL worth it. I couldnt have made a better descision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Flyer

The ad in AOPA pilot said that they do have all the bells and whistles. WX radar, GPS on all and coupled autopilots. In reality you are lucky if the aircraft is airworthy; coupled AP's are an MC fantasy. And what is he telling people in his advertising now. Well, it seems that Mike is offering placement assistance with ASA and Sky West. Can anyone name one instructor who has been placed with these airlines? This is shameless lie and I am tempted to report Aviator to AOPA for false advertising.

As for the autopilots, 6638D autopilot DOES work (maybe you should learn how to use it now, as you seem to be lazy already)!! GPS is in (and DOES WORK) in 6628Y, 5090M, 110SU (anyone else im missing?). The only time i like to take GPS out, is on a Cross country where I know that ATC wants me to go direct to an intersection..... Back when I was a student and got to solo the duchess for 55 hours, I NEVER took a plane that had GPS. You DONT NEED IT!! I even flew to Louisiana (11hrs roundtrip) without a HSI (it failed as i got to Ocala). Did I turn around and go crying to Mike? Hell NO!!

Oh, and as for ASA, SKyWest; etc. How the hell would you know? My old instructor is with Pinnacle. I have several friends with Colgan. I know of two people with Skywest. So stop talking through your ass!!

jg1585 · November 18th, 2005, 02:38

N66363 has a 430 GPS as well....a total of 4 duchess with the GNS 430

DOTDASH · November 20th, 2005, 10:07

Time to start laughing at yourself........Everybody else does!

Heard you busted your EOC

So sorry to hear about Max;glad to hear he is doing better. A very nice
man

DOTDASH · November 23rd, 2005, 08:41

Happy Thanksgiving to you all!

Eat lots of turkey, watch tons of football
and be safe. If you are driving be sure to
have a designated driver.

I AM THANKFUL FOR YOU ALL

Queboat · November 23rd, 2005, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florida_Flyer

A lot of what has been said here is true. I can think of many positive things about Aviator. There are people, James, Mary, Pierre, Cindy and all of the instructors who will do there best to help you through your training. These are the people who realy manage Aviator. Without them the wheels would fall off the Aviator wagon.

However there are a few things that I just can't agree with on this thread. I don't like posting anything negative but it seems I'm the only one prepared to give a different perspective of Aviator. Before I came to this school I read the Ariben forum on JC and things seemed to be all sweetness and light. I wish someone had the guts to give a different perspective and help me make an informed choice. Some of what Aviator_Instructor says is true but I just can't agree with some things.

So, who was the last person to complete the course in six months including instructor ratings? Can you name a couple of the twenty current instructors that completed the course in this time? As for completing on budget that is hard, mainly because of the extra months that the course WILL take. Also, greedy MC has banned us from flying out the commercial requirements with a MEI timebuilder. One of my buddies spent an extra thousand bucks to do "training" that could have been done for no extra cost. He can thank MC for this. As for the instructor ratings, read my post on the instructor ratings thread. I would say it takes the average Aviator student an extra $6000 (due to extra living costs) and 9-12 months to complete the pro course. Do not come here expecting to finish on time and budget. If you want to get done fast and cheap go to ATP.

I visited ATP last week. The aircraft are not 2004 Seminoles; in fact most were 1970's vintage, just like the Duchesses, renting for similar money. The ATP Semionoles were all in excellent condition with a standard avionics fit. The paint wasn't falling off 5090M style and they were not soaked in oil. If the plane isn't safe I ain't goin' but sometimes Aviator machines have broken in the air in a big way on me and my friends! It's always a good flight when you land with two working engines and a radio. ATP have far better MX and much nicer aircraft.

Dude, you're an instructor; you should know the regs, but I don't think you do! My instructor told me that to be airworthy the aircraft has to comply with its type certificate and type design. If an ADF is fitted and it's bust then the aircraft is not airworthy unless it's placarded inop. As for repairing the ADF at the 100 hour; hahahahaha, doesn't happen! We all know that the ADF's in 30K, 36M, 78D, 38D, 44T and others have been inop for a long time. Are they placarded inop? Perhaps Aviator Instructor might get the chance to explain to the Feds his version of the regs during a ramp check. Flying the aircraft like this is not strictly legal, no matter what MC and Ed will tell you.

Well I would like to leave and I sure am working on it. It's not like choosing between NBC and ABC though. Once you are part way through training you are heavily commited. If I moved to ATP I would probably never be hired by them unless I complete the full course. To some extent I have to make a stand. Once I have the ratings I'm working on and there is no money left in my account though, goodbye.

This is not what he told me! He told me that I would be done in six months if I worked hard. Well Mike, I have worked hard and so have many other people. Where are our ratings? I also believed that the aircraft would be in better condition. The ad in AOPA pilot said that they do have all the bells and whistles. WX radar, GPS on all and coupled autopilots. In reality you are lucky if the aircraft is airworthy; coupled AP's are an MC fantasy. And what is he telling people in his advertising now. Well, it seems that Mike is offering placement assistance with ASA and Sky West. Can anyone name one instructor who has been placed with these airlines? This is shameless lie and I am tempted to report Aviator to AOPA for false advertising.

Sorry to be negative again but I'm just speaking for the dozens of frustrated Aviators out there wanting to get done and get gone.

Florida_Flyer you are XXXXXXXXXX you wouldn't last 10 minutes in the real world. quit whining

1st- you must be an ohh so joy to fly with. Bit of Advice to you. Personality will take you further in Aviation than any amount of flight time. I would know I left the aviator to fly a lear 55 with 800 hours.I charmed my way into a jet. I should've be a lawyer.

2nd- I see you lack the man power to endure a career in aviation. If you couldn't "survive" the aviator you should just hang it up right now.

3rd-Mike Cohen is a big teddy bear compared to any 135 chief pilot barking in your ear like a god damn drill sergant while your HAND flying (dont worry about no stinking autopilot)his $10 million jet when your off GS 1/4 dot. Forget about being a freigt dog, you'd get eaten alive.

4th- I could name a few people that finished the pro course in less than 6 months. These people studied, I mean all day every day. Ask around about a colombian guy named Hernan. He did the pro course on summer break between semesters at college. Me, I did it in nine with a 1 month and a 2 month break mixed in. You do the math. By the way I was under on my account when I finished. Imagine that I spent less than 25k to get all my ratings at the Aviator.

Doug Taylor · November 23rd, 2005, 22:33

I had the edit the above post.

This is a friendly website, not a "lemme curse and show everyone how big my manhood is" site.

Be respectful. If you can't do that, I can suggest some other sites you may be interested in.

Queboat · November 24th, 2005, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I had the edit the above post.

This is a friendly website, not a "lemme curse and show everyone how big my manhood is" site.

Be respectful. If you can't do that, I can suggest some other sites you may be interested in.

okay Doug i'll play nice. just trying to give this guy a little bit of the real world.

Doug Taylor · November 25th, 2005, 10:57

Thanks bro! Carry on, soldier...

Kristie · November 25th, 2005, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I had the edit the above post.

This is a friendly website, not a "lemme curse and show everyone how big my manhood is" site.

Be respectful. If you can't do that, I can suggest some other sites you may be interested in.

yea.. cuz remember.. if it gets down and dirty then we have to move it or get rid of it and we hate doing that!!

*lots of youngin's peruse the site, we like it PG-13.

November 9th, 2005, 22:42	#1
Aviator_Instructor Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1	A positive perspective of the Aviator I have sat here and read threads within this forum for a while and it is only now that I have decided to post. I am an instructor at the school and have been here long enough to know how things work and how they could probably work a little better. I am not here to start a verbal war with anyone, only to give a different view as to some of the posters that have written before me. In no way shape or form am I associated with management. This is my view, and that alone. If you are prepared to work, and I mean really prepared to come here and dedicate yourself for 6 months, the pro-course can be accomplished on time, AND on budget. Some students, not all, come here and think that they can breeze through all of the ratings and certificates with little to no effort. You can not get by doing that, not in aviation, not in any career. It just does not happen. You have to work, and work hard. Other posters on here have written about people taking along time to do the initial instructor rating. The reason, in my opinion, is because certain students do not continue to study through-out course. Sure, we had hurricanes down here and the planes/airport was out of commission for 3 days, big deal. Yes, for a month or so we did not have another 2 year CFI. If you were ready for your MEI, Pierre (our Chief Pilot) would have flown with you. He is busy, and you would have to get up and be there for 6 in the morning, but he would put you on the schedule and fly with you. People who take 5 and 6 months from the time they get the single commercial and to the time they take the MEI, have not been studying for the entire time. Did I do the entire course in 6 months, NO. Was this due to the school? No. I know that I did not apply myself for the entire 6 months. It is a hard course and requires intense study and dedication for the entire time. In my opinion it is the hardest rating you will aquire. The ATP certificate is hard, but it is an instrument rating with tighter tollerances. Some posters have mentioned that people should attend schools that get the MEI, CFI and CFII done in 10 to 14 days. To those who wrote that, remember back to when you were a student and ask yourselves ' Would you prefer to have an instructor who did all of there instructor ratings in 2 weeks and then passed these checkrides with in-house examiners, or, with an instructor who worked on these ratings for 2 months and then took a checkride with the Orlando FSDO'. I am not saying that one place is better than another, only that getting the ratings done in minimal time may not be for the best. Maintainance seems to be an issue for some posters as well. These planes are safe. They are not 2004, glass cockpit Seminoles. If you want that, you can pay the outrageous prices that are found in Vero Beach. Mike will tell you that from the start. The planes are definitely safe though. If they are not, the instructor or student should write it up and it will get fixed, either at that time, if the plane is not airworthy, or at the 100 hourly. The reason that all but one plane was 'down' a month or so ago was because no-one was writing it up. Finally, maintanance could could not do all the work at once and the fleet was grounded. Mike and Ed encourages us all, students and instructors alike, to write the problems up. All 'write ups' must be looked at, by law, and the 'write up' kept for a period of time. They are actioned upon ASAP most of the time. If an ADF is broken, for obvious reasons, Mike is not going to 'down' that plane until it is fixed. He and Ed will wait for the 100 hourly, when it must, by law, be serviced and then have it fixed. Remember that this is a flight school and that planes will go down from time to time. It is not very often that I can not find another airplane to fly in if mine goes down for maintainance. Finally, stop this personal bashing of the management. If you are so unhappy with the school, it's planes, management, the instructors, please leave. Why would you continue to put money into a place that you do not like. You have multi time from the money you have spent, so it is not like you have nothing to show for it. Move on people.Mike is running a business. So is T.J. Mike tells EVERYONE who does this program, that they need to study, that the planes do not have all the bells and whistles and we do not have the huge buildings that are found to the north of us. But, the planes are safe and if you are prepared to work, you will walk away with you MEI, CFI and CFII with alot of multi-time. Mike is quirky, I will say that, but a liar, a greedy Texan, and any of the other personal attacks is just plain incorrect and very unfair. I think that I have expressed my views here enough. I hope that this has been somewhat informative to those that are interested in coming here or even to those that are here. It is a hard road to walk this one and blaming others for ALL of someones shortcomings is just not right. A_I

November 14th, 2005, 08:23	#10
DOTDASH Newbie Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7	question? Florida_Flyer... Everytime you open your mouth you sound more like an idiot. Do your work for ATP It sure sounds as though you do. Please leave Aviator. We really don't want you there!

November 14th, 2005, 20:17	#12
manolo1492 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 64	$$$$ Florida Flyer, would you mind sending me an IM with your name and address, don't worry I'll keep it a secret

November 20th, 2005, 10:07	#19
DOTDASH Newbie Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7	Florida_flyer Time to start laughing at yourself........Everybody else does! Heard you busted your EOC So sorry to hear about Max;glad to hear he is doing better. A very nice man

November 23rd, 2005, 08:41	#20
DOTDASH Newbie Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7	All Aviator Friends *Happy Thanksgiving to you all!* Eat lots of turkey, watch tons of football and be safe. If you are driving be sure to have a designated driver. I AM THANKFUL FOR YOU ALL

November 9th, 2005, 23:10	#2
johnd1982 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 22	Good to see someone writing a nice message about the school finally!! I came to the school to do my PMEL,Instrument,CMEL&CSEL (all part 61) and I managed to do them in 4 weeks, exactly on my time budget, lowerer than my projected money budget, and within my flight time budget!! I think if you are willing to put in the work and expain to your instructor at the start what you want to achieve, then it is more than possible! I intend to return next month to complete my CFI/CFII/MEI, and I will have a realistic approach as to how long it should take me, and what is required of me! As for the staff and management at the school, they are some of the friendliest and most helpful people I have encountered. Treat them like human beings with feelings, rather than message board bashing them, and they will be more than willing to help you! I wish the school all the best, I shall be returning soon to complete my ratings, and I certainly wouldn't consider taking my business anywhere else!! John D

November 10th, 2005, 11:45	#3
Catherine Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 149	Excellent post. I've been running like mad trying to get things ready to come down there myself. I'm hoping next week right now, but I have one more big thing and several small things to take care of before that happens and hopefully it will get taken care of this weekend. Everyone I've spoken with there has been kind and helpful and although I didn't always get to talk to Mike when I would call I always managed to get to him and he always took the time to answer my questions and be open with me. I'm looking forward to arriving there soon and starting my schooling. Catherine

November 11th, 2005, 01:02	#4
doubleo6point9 Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 64	After reading all of the stuff that's been flying around here I guess i'll put in a bit about my experience there. I flew down to to the Aviator about a year ago to take a quick tour of the place and to talk to a few people before deciding on where to go to get my multi-comm-inst add on and build some multi time. Mike was more than helpful in giving me a tour of the place personally and answered all of my questions to my satisfaction. After the tour I decided that the aviator was the place I wanted to be at and a few months later I was down there ready to start flying. In the beginning the one major problem that I thought I was going to run into delt specifically with housing because of the recent hurricanes. A few weeks before I went down I kept calling to confirm if i'd have housing or not and the answer I got was "we're working on it, but regardless you'll have a place to stay even if we have to put you in a hotel." Well I wasn't so sure of things but I went anyways and when I arrived James had worked things out with Mike and they found an apartment for me to stay at up in Vero. And let me point out, I can't say enough nice things about James because of all the help he gave me. At one point he even offered a couch at his place if there were no other alternatives to the housing problems. And if you're reading this James, you're the man and if you still want a job at lakes give me a holla and i'll try to hook it up. Anyways with the housing deal worked out and the paperwork out of the way I started flying the very first day I got there. Things went on schedule at the pace that I wanted to fly at and I never had any problems with the airplanes. Also, at one point I was curious about my key loan being delayed because I needed the extra money to help pay for my cost of living and pay my bills while i was out of town for a month. At first it was kind of a pain in the butt to deal with TJ because she didn't really seem to want to deal with anything at all. So after basically getting the brush off I found Mike, told him about my problems and before I knew it I had a check in my hand and was told where to cash it. Essentially Mike had loaned me some extra money to cover the cost of living while I was there until the loan deal was figured out. I also have to point out that Mike was allowing me to fly his planes before he even got the payment from Key Bank. He told me we'd just work it out later and to keep on flying. Now i'm sure everyone's situation is different and i'm sure things have changed. But I can honestly say that I felt I was treated very fairly and everyone at the Aviator did their best to keep me on budget. Best of all, I finished on time and slighty above my budget because I spent alittle more than I had thought when we flew down to the Bahamas. Either way, both Mike and James definately helped me out alot and I had a great experience flying down there.

November 12th, 2005, 19:04	#5
maverick2 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: LAX Posts: 203	I've been here for nearly three and a half months now. In that time, I've completed my private-single, private multi, and half of the instrument course. So far I have no complaints. The air conditioning at the house I was staying at broke and Mike had someone to replace the whole system in two days. Mike offered to put me up in a hotel for the time the air conditioning was out, but I refused because it wasnt that bad. Also, there's a cleaning lady that came around the houses once a month to clean up the bathrooms, kitchen, and vacuum the floors. When I told Mike I was moving out of his housing, he offered to help and made sure that I would be ok, and Peggy gave me back cash for the gym membership. Pierre helped me thru the VA reimbursement process after a few reminders. It took us about a week to get the paperwork done. The trick is to remind him everytime you see him. I have asked TJ a few times about my billing and contract to double check and she always seemed willing to help. The planes do go down, but its mainly because gets flown so much, and doing single engine emergency procedures all day, and time building all night, and after about a week to ten days, the plane goes down for 100 hr. Some of the students and instructors that were here for at least 18 months say there a way more students then when they first got here. So the student body is growing with same amount of planes and mechanics. I think Mike realizes this and he's doing his best to accomodate this. I dont know where I'm going with this post, but I just want to say I have no complaints so far.

November 13th, 2005, 13:35	#6
Galil Newbie Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 17	WOW!!!!!!! Finaly some true feedback on the Aviator! I called Mike Cohen last night at about 8:00 made a few jokes and a few minutes of small talk. His biggest concern was not Jetcareers or even talking about his school, he was more interested in my son that was just born and a friend of ours that has moved on. That and what was posted above describes Mike and his school best.

November 13th, 2005, 19:58	#8
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,521	"Before I came to this school I read the Ariben forum on JC and things seemed to be all sweetness and light. I wish someone had the guts to give a different perspective and help me make an informed choice" I wouldn't base my decision on an internet message board. You need to tour all the schools you are considering and talk to other students off the property. It sounds like you are trying to blame JC for your choice. "This is shameless lie and I am tempted to report Aviator to AOPA for false advertising" You think they are gonna care? These flight school ads are big bucks to AOPA and Flight Training. I think JC is a good place for people to express their opinions about a school, sort of like you are doing now. I think there is negative stuff about every big academy listed here at JC and it's there for everyone to consider.

November 13th, 2005, 23:27	#9
JRiggle Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 11	I am a current Aviator Instructor. I haven't posted in a long time but because of Florida Flyer remarks I think it is time to speak out. It took me longer than 6 months to complete the program. But I slacked off with the studying and had to take time to stop flying and just study before moving on to the MEI. I did go over budget slightly because of this but nothing unreasonable. I got a little more time than what was quoted in the program so it cost a little more. I am not complaining, I got exactly what I paid for. It was a lot less than the $6,000 that Florida Flyer said was average. What little I did go over was my fault and not Aviator's! Florida Flyer said that ATP was faster and a cheaper but according to the two websites ATP cost $13,000 more than Aviator. Hypothetically, if students at Aviator did go $6,000 over budget like Florida Flyer says then ATP would still be $7,000 more. I can't figure out how FL Flyer thinks ATP is cheaper. Evidently Florida Flyer hasn't attended ATP so how can he say ATP is a better school. There is a lot more to maintenance than a fancy avionics stack and a shiny paint job. It is what you don't see under that shiny paint that is more important. Mike puts money into the Duchess for the important stuff. As far as the airworthy condition of Aviator aircraft; I doubt they are any less airworthy than an ATP airplane. Even those shiny ATP Seminoles have scratches in the paint. Hey guess what? If the paint is scratched then it is not legally airworthy because that scratch in the paint was not part of the TCDS. While we are on the subject; to find out if an airplane is legally airworthy you have to do a lot of research through all the records to see if everything is current. For how many flights have you actually checked all the records and researched all the Ad's. You should legally check all that stuff before every flight. From what I have been told it takes about a day to check all the records and AD's or more. What is typically checked before flight is that the maintenance items have been completed such as the annual, 100 hour, etc, the proper documents are aboard and that the aircraft is in a safe condition for flight. During preflight you determine that the aircraft is in a safe condition for flight. Judgment is called for when preflighting. That scratch in the paint means that the aircraft is not strictly legal as far as the type certificate goes but it could still be in a safe condition for flight. I have seen brand new Cessnas that got an airworthiness certificate with minor defects in the paint. If you will only fly airplanes that are strictly legal then you will never fly again because the only airplanes that are completely strictly legal are airplane on the day they get their type certificate signed off by the FAA. Judgment has to be used to determine if an airplane is in a safe condition for flight. If you aren't sure don't fly it. It is not Mike or Ed's fault if you fly an airplane that you don't think should be flying, it is your! Something people should think about before bashing a school is that pilots are a small community. Having a good reputation is critical in this industry. If your willing to bash a flight school then you would probably bash an airline if you got a job for them. What airline would want to hire someone like that? So unless you have some real evidence backing some real problem it would probably be in your best interest to keep your mouth shut. Florida Flyer please just speak for yourself. If there are dozens of frustrated Aviator student then let them speak for themselves. Florida Flyer things could improve at the Aviator if you would stop posting so mike would have time to do other things besides controlling the damage you are doing to the school. When I was making my decision on which school to go to I seriously consider both ATP and Aviator. In the end I went with Aviator. I have not regretted it. Overall I have been happy with my experience here at Aviator.

November 14th, 2005, 10:42	#11
CommPilot76 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 51	I would have to agree with Dotdash. If you are that unhappy Florida Flyer, you do you not just leave? Is it worth the misery you are obviously going threw to continue your training at the Aviator? I have been at the Aviator for about 7 Months now and I love it here. Everyone in Management and all of the students that I interact with on a daily basis are always so nice and willing to help out whenever needed. Every time that I have went into MC's Office or TJ's office with a question regarding the training or my account they have always been more then happy to help me out. I personally think that choosing the Aviator for my flight training is one of the best moves I have made in my life.

November 14th, 2005, 21:53	#13
jg1585 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SRQ Posts: 40	$$$$$$$$. getcha some!!

November 16th, 2005, 01:27	#16
jg1585 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SRQ Posts: 40	ask florida flyer what it means

November 18th, 2005, 02:38	#18
jg1585 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SRQ Posts: 40	N66363 has a 430 GPS as well....a total of 4 duchess with the GNS 430

November 23rd, 2005, 22:33	#22
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,581 Blog Entries: 1	I had the edit the above post. This is a friendly website, not a "lemme curse and show everyone how big my manhood is" site. Be respectful. If you can't do that, I can suggest some other sites you may be interested in. __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

November 25th, 2005, 10:57	#24
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,581 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks bro! Carry on, soldier... __________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode