Aviator, Title 4, Key Bank

[kailuaboy]

Here is the jist on Key Bank and the title 4 issue.

You can get an aviation loan from Key bank until Sept. 1st.

To get title 4 approval, you have to be an accredited school.

The Aviator has been an accredited school for over 15 years now. It takes a couple of years to get accredited.

ATP is NOT an accredited school, thus not gonna get Title 4. Thus, not gonna get approved for Key Bank loans anymore, after September 1st.

The Aviator is still in the process of getting Title 4 acceptance, but Mike assured me that he will get that by September 1st.

Any questions, hit me.

Ivan

[maverick2]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is the jist on Key Bank and the title 4 issue.

You can get an aviation loan from Key bank until Sept. 1st.

To get title 4 approval is you have to be an accredited school.

The aviator has been an accredited school for over 15 years now. It takes a couple of years to get accredited.

ATP is NOT an accredited school, thus not gonna get Title 4. Thus, not gonna get approved for Key Bank loans anymore, after September 1st.

Any questions, hit me.

Ivan

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok...so if AriBen is an accredited school, why do we have til Sept. 1st to get an aviation loan? If AriBen is accredited already, nobody should have any problems applying for a loan even after Sept. 1st.

anthony

[kailuaboy]

right. What im saying, is you have till Sept. 1st to get an "aviation" (not Aviator) loan for non-title 4 schools.

If you want to go to the aviator, the Sept. 1st date plays no role.

Ivan

[maverick2]

roger dodger...

[NaturalFlyer]

That's practically the best news I have heard all week!




That makes me almost as happy as this guy.

[BrianNC]

You know it's a serious meal when you have to wear a helmet to keep from hurting yourself.

[aloft]

I don't think the helmet helped.

[ERJ-135]

Explain what a Title 4 school is, is, and let the others know what you are talking about. Accredited only means that the school pays money to an association that has governing rules and regulations and abides by the aformentioned.

[Matt777]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is the jist on Key Bank and the title 4 issue.

You can get an aviation loan from Key bank until Sept. 1st.

To get title 4 approval, you have to be an accredited school...

ATP is NOT an accredited school, thus not gonna get Title 4. Thus, not gonna get approved for Key Bank loans anymore, after September 1st...

Any questions, hit me.

Ivan

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi everyone! This is my first post here- I just found out about this place after I emailed my friend Don who's screen name here is DE727.

I got my $40,000 Key Bank loan a month and a half ago to get all my ratings and licenses, 50 hours of multi time and a job as an instructor at this local flight school I'm attending.

Immediately after my loan was approved I recieved a letter from Key saying that non-title IV schools were no longer going to be eligible for loans, but that my existing loan would not be affected.

In the last week I have realized that getting only 50 hours of multi time is not going to make me competitive for getting a job anywhere so now I want to go to All ATPS as soon as I do my PPL check ride in a week.

I called ATPS a couple days ago to verify that they were still eligible and then I called Key Bank to make sure they were eligible.

After reading this post today I called them again and was told that ATPS is NOT on their list of schools that will no longer be eligible. The little FBO I am currently training at IS on their list, but as of today, Key Bank says that ALL ATPS is not on their list of cancelled schools.

I have no idea if it will change by Sept 1, but the Key customer service person I talked to said they are eligible.

Do you know something that I (and the Key Bank person I talked to today) don't?

I suppose it could be possible that she is confused and you are correct- it all depends on one thing, who told you that ALL ATPS would no longer be eligible?

I ask because I want to be sure to get my ATP loan prior to Sept 1 in case your source knew what they were talking about and mine didn't!


thanks!

[DE727UPS]

Matt. Just as a plan C or D, could you stay at your present school, get your CFI and mostly instruct single engine, have your 50 multi, and then get on at Amflight what you hit 1200 total? If you are happy with your current school and where you live, I think this is something you should consider. My friend at Amflight (trybysky) is doing just fine without having ever gone to a big academy or having loads of multi time. His hardest thing was even getting 50 multi, which is already part of your program. Also, Airpac hires locals with low multi.

[Matt777]

[ QUOTE ]
Matt. Just as a plan C or D, could you stay at your present school, get your CFI and mostly instruct single engine, have your 50 multi, and then get on at Amflight what you hit 1200 total? If you are happy with your current school and where you live, I think this is something you should consider. My friend at Amflight (trybysky) is doing just fine without having ever gone to a big academy or having loads of multi time. His hardest thing was even getting 50 multi, which is already part of your program. Also, Airpac hires locals with low multi.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Don, since you emailed saying I could get on at Ameriflight with only 50 multi that's exactly what I've been thinking about as another option.

The flight school I'm at is no longer going to be eligible for Key Bank loans so business will probably drop off and it often seems like there are 2 or 3 instructors hanging around- or not there at all (and the planes are on the ground too) so I don't know how quickly I'd be logging time there... if there is a lack of work for their instructors.

$18 an hour plus an additional $1 an hour for each additional rating you have is awesome pay for an instructor- but only if I'm able to get a decent amount of hours.

Also I have observed the owner being very condescending to my instructor, talking down to him on several occasions- so I'm not sure that I'd want to work for him!

I asked an instructor how many hours they log a year and he said it was 500 to 600 so to get 1200 total time it would take over two years. This is in addition to the year he said it will take to get all the licenses and ratings so that I can be hired as a CFI.

So it would take three years there, but at ALL ATPS it would take probably 7 days to get that 25 hours PIC Cross country time I need to get into the Airline Pilot program plus 90 days for everything else.
Then I would be logging multi time as an instructor which should put me in a better position to someday get on at a regional like ExpressJet and then eventually Horizon Air after I've spent several years logging Jet time. Of course I would have to move to Houston to work at ExpressJet and I have no idea if I'd like it there- or if I'd even get hired.

My current program is $40,000 for 50 hours multi.

The ATP program is $40,000 + 2,400 (examiner's fees) + 25 hours of PIC Cx Country time in their 172. They told me that $75 an hour includes the 172 and an instructor (though I won't need the instructor).... around $45,000 or so to come out with 190 hours multi (only 140 is actual instead of FTD I think).
I also was thinking about their CRJ FTD training program to impress a regional who operates those (Skywest perhaps?)

I'm realizing right now that maybe I am more interested in getting on at regional with CRJs than I indicated in my email to you!

Basically I am basing my decision on what will enable me to make my $459 a month Key Bank payments the easiest.

I know I would enjoy flying for AirPac or Ameriflight (I just want to fly), but the thing I'm afraid of is that I don't know if I would have enough income to pay that $459/month payment as easily as I would be able to if I was working at ExpressJet or SkyWest.

Of course I am assuming that I would be hired by ExpressJet or somebody (like ALL ATPS says I would after being an instructor for 7 to 12 months, based on the experience of their students who are being hired every month at the following link). http://www2.allatps.com/AirlinePlacements/

I just want to be able to make that payment and also be able to pay the rent!

Thanks for your help, Don!!!

[Jassen]

We are well into September, and I was just approved a couple days ago for a $57,000 Key Bank loan to attend ATP, so it would appear to me as though this issue, whatever it was, has been resolved.

However, I am giving much consideration to attending a school other than ATP. Ari-Ben, for example, seems to be an incredible bang for the buck.

Just throwing in what I've found out.

-Jassen

[dbakeg00]

So, whats the deal with Aviator now..as of today...Are we title 4 yet? I havent heard anyhting about it in the last three weeks to a month. Just curious.

[Jassen]

When I spoke with Mike Cohen last week, he told me that the Key Bank cutoff had been moved to Sept. 15th, which I barely made, and that the Title IV approval for Ari-Ben was coming soon. I *think* he said November 15th.

Hope this helps. You may want to call Mike directly and get the latest.

take care!
-jassen

[Jassen]

Well, I stand corrected. I was just informed a few hours ago that Key Bank is NOT going to fund my loan with Ari-Ben due to the Sept. 15th. cutoff, even though they originally told me they would, since I was approved before the cutoff.

I'm a little miffed.

Incidentally, if you look at the current Key Bank school list, all the Florida flight schools have been removed from their school list with the exception of ATP.

I will be calling Key Bank and Ari-Ben tomorrow morning.

-Jassen

[Getburned]

Any word about Key Bank, Aviator and Title 4?

[dbakeg00]

My roommate heard from T.J. yesterday (9/22/05) that Ari-Ben recieved its title 4 earlier that afternoon...I dont really know, guess its just hearsay right now

[wings]

Hi all,

I addressed these questions in the other Title IV thread. If there is any other questions Please ask them in that thread. Maybe I can answer them

Cindy Brown
Financial Aid Administrator
Ari Ben Aviator, Inc.