Cross Country Hours

[Arnie7781]

I was wondering if any current students could tell me about cross country flying at Ari-Ben. I'm mostly interested in the hours logged as PIC. I've recently heard a lot about flying with a partner or as a "safety pilot." Does this take away from your PIC hours or your overall hours? Also, where do you ACTUALLY get to go on XC flights? Are they mostly there and back, or are there any over night trips? I'm not inquiring about special circumstances (if you get special permission and pay out the nose, you can fly to Denali), rather the norm concerning where the average pilot is allowed to go to fulfill cross country time. Thanks for your help.

[SmitteyB]

You can fly anywhere within the United States you wish to, and its all logged as PIC time.

Per the FARs safety pilot time can be logged as PIC too.

A downside of flying XC you only get reimbursed for $1.30/gallon if you fuel up outside of the Aviator's ramp.

[Windchill]

So that's about $2/gallon out-of-pocket if you travel somewhere out of reach of an out-and-back ... good grief.

What's the range nm that you guys can get the Duchess out to and back without needing to refuel out of pocket?

[project7]

I had the chance to talk to a captain who does hiring at SkyWest last week (thanks Omar). We started talking about building hours and I asked him about the safety pilot thing. He said it was acceptable to log it, but that they didn't like to see a large number of your hours logged in this manner. The example he gave me was that the current minimum hour requirement is 100 multi, and you have 105, but 50 of those hours are as safety pilot, then thats not so good in their eyes.

[Texguy]

[ QUOTE ]
So that's about $2/gallon out-of-pocket if you travel somewhere out of reach of an out-and-back ... good grief.

What's the range nm that you guys can get the Duchess out to and back without needing to refuel out of pocket?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering that, too.

[kailuaboy]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the range nm that you guys can get the Duchess out to and back without needing to refuel out of pocket?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive flown to Mobile, Al. (One way). For the long CC for Comm. requirements, most people usually go to Tallahasee (sp?), round trip, without refueling.. This is starting (obviously) at FPR.

[manolo1492]

I flew N66363 from PVG (Norfolk) to FPR without re-fueling, about 650 nm

[SmitteyB]

WOW. That tailwind must have been a good one...

[kailuaboy]

when i went to Mobile, i had to take 6044T.

I wish i could have taken 822ER, not thats a pretty decent plane. I love that one. FAST and conservative onthe fuel consumption.

[RPM]

most people just keep it between Talahassee and Key West, so you will never have to pay for fuel. You can safely get about 5.7 hours per trip before you need to refuel unless you fly N278D

[Lima_Charlie]

[ QUOTE ]
You can fly anywhere within the United States you wish to, and its all logged as PIC time.

Per the FARs safety pilot time can be logged as PIC too.

A downside of flying XC you only get reimbursed for $1.30/gallon if you fuel up outside of the Aviator's ramp.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the rationale behind only reimbursing $1.30/gallon? Is the rate you are charged for the plane a "dry" rate, and fuel is extra, or what?

[SmitteyB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can fly anywhere within the United States you wish to, and its all logged as PIC time.

Per the FARs safety pilot time can be logged as PIC too.

A downside of flying XC you only get reimbursed for $1.30/gallon if you fuel up outside of the Aviator's ramp.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the rationale behind only reimbursing $1.30/gallon? Is the rate you are charged for the plane a "dry" rate, and fuel is extra, or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe to keep the airplanes close...

And no, we are charged a flat rate, wet.

[manolo1492]

Us "VA" guys get back $1.69 per gallon which is a little better

[Lima_Charlie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can fly anywhere within the United States you wish to, and its all logged as PIC time.

Per the FARs safety pilot time can be logged as PIC too.

A downside of flying XC you only get reimbursed for $1.30/gallon if you fuel up outside of the Aviator's ramp.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the rationale behind only reimbursing $1.30/gallon? Is the rate you are charged for the plane a "dry" rate, and fuel is extra, or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe to keep the airplanes close...

And no, we are charged a flat rate, wet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose that would discourage longer XC flying, as a break down somewhere far, far away, could cost a pretty penny. Now that I think about it, in the past I have heard that is why we keep our XC flights to under 3 hours one way. However, we do get reimbursed the going fuel rate at DVT when we return. Works out great if the fuel we bought was cheaper than what Cutter charges!

[GatorFC]

I was able to fly from New Orleans (NEW) back to FPR on one tank of gas thanks to a helpfull tailwind and economy cruise. I stopped at Cross City as a planned fuel stop (a good place to stop by the way as you can punch in the CTAF and access their nice and clean restrooms after hours), but was pleasantly surprised to find out I had enough fuel to make it back to Ft. Pierce.

Flying West to NEW was a different story, however - damn headwind . I made a planned stop at Tri County (1J0) in Bonifay, FL and put about 58 gallons in the tanks. I probably could have made it to NEW on one tank, but it wouldn't have been smart or legal .

As far as PIC time, since I'm in the VA program there is no "gray area" as we do our timebuilding solo.

[kailuaboy]

Did you fly VFR or IFR up to NEW? My dad lives in Covington, LA, that was my final destination. I flew IFR up there, ATC gave me alot of directs. I wanted to stop at Mobile to refuel, REALLY nice FBO there.

You still doing your solo time now?

[Aviator609]

[ QUOTE ]
You can fly anywhere within the United States you wish to, and its all logged as PIC time.

Per the FARs safety pilot time can be logged as PIC too.


[/ QUOTE ]

The safety pilot time can be logged as PIC but this will not be equal to your total time logged. So its not "all logged as PIC time" It would be hard for people to takeoff and land under the hood, so then you can not be a safety pilot at that point. Smittey do you go to Aviator?

The reason for the fuel is that Mike claims that is what he pays for it. He gets a big discount because he is not reselling any of it, but I dont see how it could've been $1.30 and now gone down even lower when gas prices are going up... But anyways.

[SmitteyB]

Yes, I am at the Aviator. And obviously you cant log the takeoff and landing, most of the people on here know that, I thought it was a given.

[JRiggle]

Here is what you find from looking at the performance section of the Beech Duches AFM/POH. For the graph in the AFH/POH the airplane is at max gross weight, with the cowling flaps closed and the mixture 25-50 degrees lean of peak. The figures are also based on stadard day condition, 45 minute fuel reserves at normal cruise power. I am only giving the figures from 5,000 to 10,000 feet to keep things with in a reasonable range.

Range:
Max Cruise - 620-680nm
Normal Cruise(20/2300) - 750-780nm

Endurance:
Max Cruise - 3.7-4.4 hours
Normal Cruise(20/2300) - 5.0-5.7 hours

As for loging time look at CFR FAR 91.109(b)(1)

Basically it says that to operate an aircraft under simulated instrument conditions then the other control seat has to be occupied by another pilot holding at least a private certificate.

Then look at CFR FAR 61.51(e)(1)(iii)

To summarizes that paragraph it say a person many log pic time when more than one pilot is required under the type certificate or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

Therefore the common understanding among the majority of pilots is that if one pilot is simulated instrument then a safety pilot is required. Because two pilots are now required by the regulations then both pilots are pic and may log the time as such.

[JEP]

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore the common understanding among the majority of pilots is that if one pilot is simulated instrument then a safety pilot is required.

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I would venture to say that would be ALL pilots. If one pilot is in simulated conditions, there had better be a safety pilot. Being in simulated, you are still responsible for visual separation.

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
....with the cowling flaps closed and the mixture 25-50 degrees lean of peak.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lean of peak or rich of peak?

(Most everything that I have read about L.O.P. operation of conventional piston engines is on fuel injected powerplants with customized GAMI injectors. I have heard rumors, though, of testing L.O.P. operation on carburated engines with good atomization and fairly uniform distribution among cylinders.)

[JRiggle]

Opps, you are right, it is Leaned to 25-50 degrees F on rich side of peak EGT. Basically the reason I put all that in there is to try to point out that the typical day in FL is not standard day. Most of the duchess do not have EGT gauges so we can not be that precise. Many pilots that I have flown with at the Aviator typically do not close the cowling flaps because of the high FL temps. Finally Aviator airplanes are not exactly new. So if all that is considered a wide margin of safety should be added to the book figures.

[SmitteyB]

The cow flaps want to close due to wind resistance, so we make it a routine of scanning temps and then double checking they're open. Rarely have I ever had to close them.

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
...cow flaps...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm getting a really strange visual...

[Lima_Charlie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...cow flaps...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm getting a really strange visual...



[/ QUOTE ]

There must be some SERIOUS parasite drag from those bad boys!!!