Leaning towards Ari over ATP

[SkyJeff]

In comparing other flight schools such as local FBO, ATP, and Ari I've come to the conclusion that Ari may be the best way to go.

Let's say I have my PPL with 85hrs TT.

ATP Career Pilot Program offers:

Commercial Pilot with all the ratings.
High Performance and Altitude Endorsement (wth is this anyway?)
200TT
190 Multi-engine time
=200TT with 190 ME **In 90 Days** for $40,000 including examiner fees.

Now once this course is completed let's open the option of Direct Track which includes:
550TT
140 hours Multi-engine

That's 750TT with 330ME at a cost of $73,000.
With the alliance with ExpressJet it sounds like they are condifent that you will get the job and offer a $10,000 money back guarentee and a MEI job. Let's say you did not get an interview.

Total cost $63,000 with 700TT and 330ME with a MEI job.

Now onto Ari-Ben with same as above PPL with 85 hours.

Pro-Course offers the following:
Commercial license with all the ratings.
50 Single-engine.
200 Multi-engine.

=250TT with 200 ME time totalling $30,000 + examiner fees and MAYBE a MEI job.

Let's say you have $33,000 to gamble by not doing the Direct Track program. That's enough for approx 500ME time there (7,000 x 100hrs = 35,000).

Totalling: 50SI and 900ME time + the 85 from the PPl.

Now in comparing, is 1035TT with 900ME worth more than an ALMOST guarenteed job into ExpressJet with a MEI job if you do not? I'm wanting some opinions on this.

[SmitteyB]

Visit before you make a decision.

I did NOT know ATP offered the MEI job also. That is insteresting news. That is on the bright side for those who choose it.

Again the bottom line...visit. Good luck in whatever you choose.

[RPM]

[ QUOTE ]
=250TT with 200 ME time totalling $30,000 + examiner fees and MAYBE a MEI job.

Let's say you have $33,000 to play with over going the ATP way with Direct Track. That's enough for approx 500ME time there.

Totalling: 50SI and 900ME time.

Now in comparing, is 1035TT with 900ME worth more than an ALMOST guarenteed job into ExpressJet with a MEI job if you do not?



[/ QUOTE ]

first off...the pro course includes 20 single engine not 50.

I don't think I understand what your trying to do?? Are you saying you want to buy 500 hours worth of ME time with the money you saved over ATP? Why in the heck would you want to do that?

Once you complete the pro course you work as an instructor and get "paid" to fly in the twin until you have enough hours to get hired. That is the whole point of becoming a CFI....to build flight time without having to pay for it. I don't understand why you would want to buy all that extra time.

but to answer your question...1035tt and 900 multi will get you into just about any regional =if the hiring stays strong like it is now=

[aloft]

Secondly, the ATP CPP offers 140 hrs multi-engine time, not 190. 50 of that "190 hours logged time" quoted is in a flight training device on the ground and does not count toward flight hours. All 200 hrs in Ari-Ben's program is in the aircraft. Not that I'm disparaging FTD time because I think it can be very useful during training, but in an apples-to-apples comparison, you're paying $8k more at ATP for 60 fewer ME hours than you would at Ari-Ben.

[SkyJeff]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't think I understand what your trying to do?? Are you saying you want to buy 500 hours worth of ME time with the money you saved over ATP? Why in the heck would you want to do that?

Once you complete the pro course you work as an instructor and get "paid" to fly in the twin until you have enough hours to get hired. That is the whole point of becoming a CFI....to build flight time without having to pay for it. I don't understand why you would want to buy all that extra time.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point, I don't know what I was thinking. CFI seems to be the way to go. What are my chances of becoming a CFI at Ari once I complete the pro-course? They say they offer you the oppurtunity. With only 300 hours it would be hard to find a CFI job somewhere else if Ari turns me down maybe because they have too many flight instructors already.

Has anyone here ever been in that position?

They also say most instructors accumulate close to 1000 hours multi-engine time in a year, is that true?

[SmitteyB]

I have not been in that position yet. I start Ari on the 14th.

Once you complete the Pro-Course at Ari-Ben you are given 2-students to teach...if your students go through with no problem you are given more and more until you get to the magical 1200TT number. I would say the 1000ME/year seems hard to come by with WX's, etc.

But as long as you're a competitent instructor and your students don't have complaints and or keep failing checkrides, you will be fine and you will remain an MEI at Ari.

Good luck, hope to see you there soon!

[RPM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't think I understand what your trying to do?? Are you saying you want to buy 500 hours worth of ME time with the money you saved over ATP? Why in the heck would you want to do that?

Once you complete the pro course you work as an instructor and get "paid" to fly in the twin until you have enough hours to get hired. That is the whole point of becoming a CFI....to build flight time without having to pay for it. I don't understand why you would want to buy all that extra time.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point, I don't know what I was thinking. CFI seems to be the way to go. What are my chances of becoming a CFI at Ari once I complete the pro-course? They say they offer you the oppurtunity. With only 300 hours it would be hard to find a CFI job somewhere else if Ari turns me down maybe because they have too many flight instructors already.

Has anyone here ever been in that position?

They also say most instructors accumulate close to 1000 hours multi-engine time in a year, is that true?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, 800-1000 multi a year is about right. I think my instructor got about 700 - 750 multi time in around 10 months + maybe 100 or so single engine.

[SkyJeff]

RPM,

How long have you been at Ari and how far along are you with your training/instructing? Would you honestly recommend it?

[ananoman]

[ QUOTE ]
Now in comparing, is 1035TT with 900ME worth more than an ALMOST guarenteed job into ExpressJet with a MEI job if you do not? I'm wanting some opinions on this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I do not know if this 'guaranteed MEI job' is true or not, but if it is, I have lost all respect for ATP. What people fail to realize when they go to a school that guarantees their students a job, is that many of the students that go to flight schools do not deserve to be instructors. I know of people who were able to get all of their instructor ratings that could barely fly instruments, had no situational awareness, and are an accident waiting to happen. If you go to a school that 'guarantees' a job, it could be you that gets one of these retards as an instructor.

[Heath]

[ QUOTE ]
In comparing other flight schools such as local FBO, ATP, and Ari I've come to the conclusion that Ari may be the best way to go.

Let's say I have my PPL with 85hrs TT.

ATP Career Pilot Program offers:

Commercial Pilot with all the ratings.
High Performance and Altitude Endorsement (wth is this anyway?)
200TT
190 Multi-engine time
=200TT with 190 ME **In 90 Days** for $40,000 including examiner fees.

Now once this course is completed let's open the option of Direct Track which includes:
550TT
140 hours Multi-engine

That's 750TT with 330ME at a cost of $73,000.
With the alliance with ExpressJet it sounds like they are condifent that you will get the job and offer a $10,000 money back guarentee and a MEI job. Let's say you did not get an interview.

Total cost $63,000 with 700TT and 330ME with a MEI job.

Now onto Ari-Ben with same as above PPL with 85 hours.

Pro-Course offers the following:
Commercial license with all the ratings.
50 Single-engine.
200 Multi-engine.

=250TT with 200 ME time totalling $30,000 + examiner fees and MAYBE a MEI job.

Let's say you have $33,000 to gamble by not doing the Direct Track program. That's enough for approx 500ME time there (7,000 x 100hrs = 35,000).

Totalling: 50SI and 900ME time + the 85 from the PPl.

Now in comparing, is 1035TT with 900ME worth more than an ALMOST guarenteed job into ExpressJet with a MEI job if you do not? I'm wanting some opinions on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your numbers are a little skewed.

As has been pointed out, you only get 140 ME time at ATP. Upon completion of that program, you would have around 250 hours total, and 140 ME. That's for 36,995 + examiners' fees.

At Ari, you'll get 250 hours, with 200 ME for around 30K plus examiners' fees.

Ari guarantees you two students and averages 6-8 months to finish. ATP guarantees you get the ratings in 90 days at the quoted price and that they'll consider hiring you.

They're both good schools with different pros and cons.

Ari:
- Is $7,000 cheaper
- does guarantee you a shot at instructing

ATP:
- will get you done in half the time
- a good shot at being an instructor
- ATP instructors do seem to get more hours

It's really too personal a call for anyone to make for you. You need to visit both schools and make a decision based your personal preferences then.

Good luck in whatever you choose,
Heath

[SmitteyB]

[ QUOTE ]

Ari:
- Is $7,000 cheaper
- does guarantee you a shot at instructing

ATP:
- will get you done in half the time
- a good shot at being an instructor
- ATP instructors do seem to get more hours


Good luck in whatever you choose,
Heath

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hate to start a debate, but how many hours are ATPs instructors getting?

My instructor here at Ari is getting 125/month- 75 multi a month.

125 hrs x $15 = $1875/month
(that is only ONE instructor, most others are averaging the same, some more, some less)\

Also, I wouldn't call ATPs 25-35% instructor acceptance a "good shot".

Our planes are old, and they're nothing compared to ATPs, I understand that and envy you guys. By the way Heath, thanks for blog, I'm enjoying reading it. Glad you're having fun.

[aloft]

Heath has a blog?????