Loan Payment

[greaper007]

I'm very interested in attending Ari-Ben. The only thing thats bothering me is the key loan. I'm trying to figure out how I'll be able to swing $350.00 a month payments as a cfi/fo. I was hoping there was a way to strech them out like I do with my fasa loans. However, they told me the longest payment plan I can get was the 15 year one.

So, do you guys have a hard time managing this loan? Have you found any strategies (loan consolidation at a longer term perhaps) that ease this payment? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[SmitteyB]

Welcome to JC!

I can't vouch for anyone paying the loan...however I'll be going to Ari-Ben and my loan payment is expect to be about 450/month for 15 years...I'm really not concerned. If money is tight...you look for another job. Not really that big of a deal.

However, you're not the first person to ask that question. And yes it's more than possible because...almost EVERY FO/CFI out there is paying back the same if not more than you will be. So relax and go for it.


Hope to see you at Ari soon!

[greaper007]

True, I just wanted to see if anyone had any tricks for streching out the payments when money is tight. Like I said with my under-grad loan I can strech it out for like 30 years, and thats only 15 g's. Oh well, I'm sure I can consolidate at a lower monthly payment when everything is said and done. What loan are you going for smittyb, keybank?

[SmitteyB]

Yes, KeyBank.

[jtrain609]

I wouldn't listen to Smitty, not everyone is taking out that kind of cash. I'm looking at a loan between $15,000 and $21,000 and I'm kind of sweating it. Don't think that the loan repayment will be easy. This Smitty guy here talks a lot, but he's only 19 or something like that and hasn't exactly done much yet. I'd rely on the older crowd here who has been there and done that (See SteveC's posts as good examples in the ATP forum under the financing thread).

[SmitteyB]

That's exactly why I said I can't talk for anyone here. You guys jump on nothing. It's insane.

The gentlemen asked for advice. I took out a loan, I know people who have taken out loans, and really aren't having trouble paying them back as an instructor.

I never said it would be easy, I just said if money is tight, go get a second job.

For someone with 3000+ posts and only an instrument rating, I'd say you talk a lot too.

[shooter13]

Thats pretty uncalled for. John is a stand up guy who is just trying to offer a different viewpoint from you take aloan it is no big deal position. Personally having been through a lot of credit issues, I agree with John. Do what you can to keep the debt as low as you can. A loan in and of itself isn't a bad thing but you need to be real careful how you use that money an you need to make certain you can pay it back.

[SmitteyB]

And I completely agree with that. But he attacked me because I was giving a personal opinion.

I'm not concerned because if I have to get a second job, I will. You have to do whats necessary to make ends meet. But it seems whenever I make a comment from personal experience or opinion you guys go physco. It's insane, immature, and completely rude. I respect each and everyone opinion and therefore would like the same in return. You don't always have to agree with me, but don't rule me out only because your heard "I haven't done much".

A loan is a huge deal. And I was in the same position. Nov 2004 I posted about a loan, you guys told me no big deal everyone has to do it. So here I send the same messages back and you tell me I'm wrong.

John is right, of course its going to be difficult. But anything in life that is hard, is worth working for.

But back the original post, I vouched I could not speak for anyone else, which should have excluded me from criticism instantly...but no...I suffer.

[jtrain609]

Smitty how much debt have you taken on in your short life? More so, how much have you had to start paying back so far? How much of that debt have you paid back while making $8,000 a year as a CFI?

You need to be focusing on figuring out how to repay the loan, not just keep your eye on the prize. It's real tempting to just take out all that money and think "I'll figure something out" but it's not that easy. I can't honestly speak from experience, I've been real lucky so far; but there's a point where luck (parents) run out and judgement has to take over. If you can't exercise good judgement in this realm you're going to be in for it. That involves making a methodical plan and backup plan to make sure that you can pay back your loan. To me, and this is what I'm trying to expouse here, anything else is inmature and has the oppertunity you land you in a lot of ##### in a few years if you can't pay back the loan. Remember, a lending institution will give you a lot more money than you'll ever be able to pay back.

Furthermore, taking on a large amount of debt removes a large amount of mobility in your career. You might not be able to make that jump to the regionals because you can't afford to take the pay cut from $26,000 a year as an established CFI to $17,000 a year with regional first officer pay. That's something you've got to think about. The way I see things, with you at least, is that you came on here talking about RAA and we told you that you're wasting your money. Now you're taking the same amount of money and putting it elseware. Sure you're getting a four year degree out of it, if you finish the program, but you're taking on an a$$load of debt at rate that while decent, isn't the best in the world.

I guess I could continue to pound you in this post, but there's a point at which you have to get it and I'm not sure you are. That's fine. All I'm doing here is trying to make sure that people know exactly what their actions entail. You make it sound so normal and easy, but it's not, and I don't care to see you lead other people to believe that.

Oh, and why do I have 200 hour, an instrument rating and 3000 posts? Beacuse about two and a half years ago I started dating a girl in a different town and I couldn't afford to fly anymore. The result? I couldn't pay for the training, so I didn't do the training. I could have well gotten a loan a while ago and financed to my hearts desire. I tried to figure out a way, for about two and a half years, to pay for as much as my training on my own as I possibly could. The result? It's not going to happen, so I'm graduating college in December and I'm going to take out the loan after exausting ever other possibilities.

[SmitteyB]

I agree with you on everything you pointed out.

However, instead of spending 90,000 for everything, I'm spending 30,000.

But we all have to do it. And I'm just saying that it is possible to pay it back. Sure, you're right I can say...no problem right now because I'm not paying it back. And maybe I crossed the line saying it was not a big deal, but people are doing it. And that gives me enough hope that I can.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
....And I was in the same position. Nov 2004 I posted about a loan, you guys told me no big deal everyone has to do it. So here I send the same messages back and you tell me I'm wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]
You might want to go back and review that complete thread, 'cause I don't think that there was much of the "...you guys told me no big deal everyone has to do it." kind of stuff in it.




"Spending Money" thread, November 2004

[PaulThomas]

[ QUOTE ]
However, instead of spending 90,000 for everything, I'm spending 30,000.


[/ QUOTE ]


No you're not.
You are spending money to get that loan
You are losing money on that interest
You are spending money to live during that time
You are spending money on "required stuff" to fly
You are losing potential income while you're trainning
You are losing future opportunites to do things due to that $450/month burden
...

It's going to end up costing a LOT more than the check you cut out to ARI. It's not that simple.

[SmitteyB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, instead of spending 90,000 for everything, I'm spending 30,000.


[/ QUOTE ]


No you're not.
You are spending money to get that loan
You are losing money on that interest
You are spending money to live during that time
You are spending money on "required stuff" to fly
You are losing potential income while you're trainning
You are losing future opportunites to do things due to that $450/month burden
...

It's going to end up costing a LOT more than the check you cut out to ARI. It's not that simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you're right. But the point of the post was to say that 90k is a lot worse than 30k just for training. And believe me I know, it's not that simple.

[Captain_Bob]

Smitty....

Let's get down to "REAL" business here... Who's the new hottie in the avatar??

Bob

[SmitteyB]

Haha...I've already received more PMs about her than anything else....

Brittany Snow...actress...American Dreams...Weds 8pm NBC...

www.brittany-snow.com

Enjoy!

[aloft]

How long's it gonna take to get her on The OC or something? I can't stand American Dreams.

[SmitteyB]

Well I think you're in luck...NBC will probably cancel AD after this season.

She's good looking isn't she?

[Cactus_Cutter]

She is kinda wearing the Aviator standard issue "white shirt" uniform...

[SmitteyB]

Thanks for the laugh...I think you guys pay more attention to my avatar than my posts...oh well.

[Windchill]

That's why we keep you around

Keep 'em coming buddy

[DaiLo]

While we're (kinda) on the topic of loans, I was wonderin.....
when does the re-payment begin?

I mean I know they say most begin six months after "graduation", but is that simply after you got your ratings? i.e. after completion of training.

So is that after you get your CFI's and begin teaching? If we're barely getting by on .50 cent noodles, how can we do all this while making loan payments?

Or is it once you hit the regionals? (does it count as continuing your education because you're still working towards your ATP rating ) ...... that is of course if you do make it that far.

So I guess the question is, when does it begin? Who tips off the bank that training is "over"?

[Cactus_Cutter]

If you can afford noodles then you can afford the butter to add with the spice packet that came with it which means you have too much money to be a CFI.

I buy rice by the 100lb bag. Over a 1.5 billion Chinese can’t be wrong. Much cheaper and the folks next door at Pan Am get a special shipment every two weeks.

[hattrick]

to try to answer dailo on the question of loan repayment technically the training ends once you finish you instructor ratings since that is what you are on contract with the school for. so technically youve finished training. with say key loan the repayment starts 6 months later. however there is a way around it, if you can get the school to tell them that you are still training working for your atp. now i havent done that and am only passing on what i have been told by those who have done it so dont take it as gospel truth. it is however worth looking into.

there were some posts there that got a little nasty about loans. now ill try to offer some wisdom on the matter however if you disagree that is not my problem. everyone is entitled to an opinion and this is simply mine trying to be of help.
both sides have valid points. for smittey being young as he is can actually work to his advantage. there might not be as much holding him back. whereas for john it sounds like he has a girl and even a college degree, so dropping everything to concentrate only on training may not be an option. its not a matter of how you get to your goal but that you do eventually make it. i applaud both of you for your effort to become pilots however remember that just because one person isnt doing it the same way you are doesnt mean either one is wrong. it is however important that you present those differing opinions for others coming behind you just please remember we are adults and dont need to talk crap about the other guys views just cause we dont see it the same way.

[kailuaboy]

I know this was A LONG TIME AGO.... but, I just have to post this.

I just found out that you dont have to pay Key Bank until the loan payment (per month) is greater than 20% of your total income for that month. So, if your loan is $500 per month and you dont make $2500, then you can fill out a "Forbearance" form for your hardship. You just fill out the form and send in some financial information they require, and your out of paying that large some of money until you can offord it.

Granted yes, obviously it sucks that your intrest just keeps adding on. But, if you need to make ends meet; Im just telling you what Ive been told by Key Bank. They sometimes neglect to tell you this.