Question for PanAm #2

DE727UPS · February 21st, 2005, 02:24

"Pan Am International Flight Academy graduates are able to obtain jobs at airlines with flight times notably lower than graduates from other academies"

"Most Pan Am International Flight Academy graduates are placed at an airline when he/she has approximately 1000 hours of flight time."

Mesa hires MAPD guys with 300 hours.
XJT and Eagle have hired with less that 1000 total...depending on their need for pilots.
Ameriflight hires guys with 1200 total.
DCA guys get interviews at 1000 total.

Chime in with the truth, jetcareers members. Those are the ones I know of. There are more examples out there....

PanAm claims to "place" pilots at airlines with less time?

Prove it. You have a list your grads who have been hired at various regionals. You say they are getting hired with less time? Please....post their stats when they got hired? You are all about saying guys get hired with less time because of PanAm's superior program...or whatever. Yet, you offer no proof in numbers? Give us the the times these guys had when they got hired so we can compare them to other schools/sources.

I'm willing to bet folks from other sources, including part 61 flight schools, are getting hired with the same times as PanAm.

PanAm marketing is smoke and mirrors. Those of us with experience in the industry see if for what it is. Don't be fooled by their silly claims.

little_cricket · February 21st, 2005, 16:38

http://www.panamacademy.com/career.asp?ID=324

One had 570 hours and another had 600 hours, too bad they were hired by Chicago Express. I didn't look too close, but I didn't see any other hours posted for recent hires. Pan Am does have agreements with a few airlines for below minimum hours applicants, however by the time it is set up probably reach the minimums unless it a large group interview that they do every once in a while.

Personal side note option: I, personally don't like to see those with so little experience on the flight deck. Many (not all) have scary attitudes of knowing it all with their vast experience. But, I digress...

RedCFI · February 24th, 2005, 12:29

Well, I went through pan am and instructed there so I can back some of those numbers up for ya.
4 guys went to express jet with under 750hrs
5 others went to express jet with under 1100hrs
2 to chicago express under 600hrs (2 dvt guys)
4 people went to mesaba with under 1100hrs
3 went to chautauqua with under 1200hrs
1 to PSA with less than 1200hrs.
2 to piedmont with less than 1100hrs.
7 went to skyway below mins (700-1100hrs)
1 to american eagle at 1100hrs
----
That was from April 04 until November 04...
These are only the people I can think of off the top of my head, most of them friends of mine. As for the class I started in 13 started, 11 of us are in jets, the other is at mesaba in the slaab and the other guy is on forums bitching cause he he didn't know his As* from first base and can't get hired. But of course its pan am's fault because he didn't get hired. Oh by the way when I came to this regional (#1 in the country for 2004) I took a 40% pay cut from my salary at pan am. I also had offers from 3 different airlines and a corporate job while I was in class here. My point is you're going to get out of it what you put into it. If you aren't happy going through training the chances of you being happy while online your first few years is going to be really low. I commend lima charlie for his attitude, those are the people I want to fly with. Do I agree w/pan am's marketing??? Come on,.. thats a no brainer of course nothing is guaranteed it is all on an individual basis but remember it is a business. You are right, if you're a gullible person with a large line of credit that doesn't do their homework about one of the biggest investments in their life they might buy into some of the marketing and expect a job to be handed to them. Thats my 2 cents, its my belief every school has its ups and downs, but what it comes down to is what works best for you.

DE727UPS · February 24th, 2005, 13:30

I think I confused you with my post. I wasn't questioning that PanAm guys are getting hired at the regionals with low time. I'm questioning PanAm's advertising claim that their grads get on with LOWER times than other places. The regionals you mention have hired guys from many places with the times you mention. I don't think PanAm is special in this regard.

Lima_Charlie · February 24th, 2005, 13:32

Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info...

I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!!

SmitteyB · February 24th, 2005, 13:49

[ QUOTE ]
Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info...

I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

BULL. Piedmont never hires outside the UND barriers. That is a big old lie.

And if they ever did, they woulnd't hire you guys.

EatSleepFly · February 24th, 2005, 15:15

SmitteyB- For someone who's not yet in it, you seem to "know" an awful lot about the industry all of a sudden. You are doing a disservice to Don's efforts by speaking of what you do not know. By the way, Piedmont doesn't hire exclusively UND guys.

RedCFI- Those numbers you posted are pretty much the norm for a lot of those regionals. What's your point?

SmitteyB · February 24th, 2005, 15:21

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, Piedmont doesn't hire exclusively UND guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, they do. Give me a specific example of a PanAm or any other academy grad hired by Piedmont. I'm not wrong about this.

I may not yet be in, but I've been around it for a while.

And what ''disservice'' are you speaking of? Because I am agreeing with him?

stuckingfk · February 24th, 2005, 15:49

[ QUOTE ]
Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info...

I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

They have hired at least 50-60 guys/gals from UND in less than a year with a minimum 500 tt and 50 multi.

Not try to sound like SmittyB (an ass), but I am wondering how can Pan Am claim "they are hiring from our us at lower times than others" when UND pilots are getting hired with the same hours if not lower?

Disclaimer: Just friendly discussion, not intended as flame bait

SmitteyB · February 24th, 2005, 15:55

[ QUOTE ]
Not try to sound like SmittyB (an ass), but I am wondering how can Pan Am claim "they are hiring from our us at lower times than others" when UND pilots are getting hired with the same hours if not lower?

[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly.

By the way, you know you've been a ####head too. Since my first post, all you show towards me is malice.

My posts are personal opinion and mostly factually driven. Unlike your blatant personal attacks, just because you don't agree with my posts.

Lima_Charlie · February 24th, 2005, 15:56

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info...

I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

They have hired at least 50-60 guys/gals from UND in less than a year with a minimum 500 tt and 50 multi.

Not try to sound like SmittyB (an ass), but I am wondering how can Pan Am claim "they are hiring from our us at lower times than others" when UND pilots are getting hired with the same hours if not lower?

Disclaimer: Just friendly discussion, not intended as flame bait

[/ QUOTE ]

No worries Ruppert... All I am going by is the big notice that was posted up in our dispatch lobby. I think it is great that UND grads have that opportunity. The quote you mentioned says "hiring from us at lower time than others", not lower time than everybody else. If we said "everybody" then that might incur the wrath of the "watchdog"!!

montanapilot · February 24th, 2005, 16:00

Smittey, i ve been biting my tongue a long time now.

But i think your making a complete ass of yourself with your weak comments about academys. "It is better to not open your mouth and people think your a fool, then to open it and remove all doubt"

EatSleepFly · February 24th, 2005, 16:06

Smittey, no offense, but you seem to be overcompensating a little bit. What exactly is your mission here? I think your time would be better spent knocking out your writtens or reading the FAR/AIM or something.

You seem to have something to say about every school out there, whether it's true or not. Very few of your comments are backed up by anything, you just trash talk. For example, things like, "Forget you ever heard of RAA," don't help anyone. You can say that, and I agree that RAA is a scam, but you can't just say that and not back it up. No one is going to pay attention to quick jabs that aren't backed up with at least an explanation of why you believe what you say, or better yet, facts.

Lima_Charlie · February 24th, 2005, 16:12

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info...

I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

BULL. Piedmont never hires outside the UND barriers. That is a big old lie.

And if they ever did, they woulnd't hire you guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the kind of stuff ESF is referring to... I am happy to engage in "peaceful" discussion, and respect an opinion, up until this sort of shiznat comes up.

EatSleepFly · February 24th, 2005, 16:15

That is exactly the stuff I am referring to.

FWIW, I've run into several PanAm grads in my travels, and all were completely professional. They didn't have 2 heads and red eyes or anything.

I only flew with one who was a fellow instructor, and he was just as good a pilot as as any.

SmitteyB · February 24th, 2005, 16:37

The reason I knock on the academies is because my first post here, I was a starry-eyed RAA guy. I was set on going, and you guys tore me apart, and showed me I didn't need to spend the money. I couldn't thank the guys here enough for helping me, and they said "Don't worry about it, just pass along the information". Now, when I do try to show the guys that I was once like, I get beat up by you guys, which are the same ones who helped me.

Show me the logic there...if you want me to pipe down and let these guys make the mistakes fine, I'm gone.

However, the facts that I use to back up my posts are from the 5 years experience I have in and around aviation, FBOs and airlines.

The guys come here looking for advice, and I have advice to give.

"Forget you ever heard of Regional Airline Academy" was a quote I recieved my first post here, by "aloft" but I didn't see you knock on him...Have you guys talked with RAA, I've visited and saw it myself, so I think I've got a little more leverage to speak than you guys.

Lima_Charlie · February 24th, 2005, 16:49

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info...

I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

BULL. Piedmont never hires outside the UND barriers. That is a big old lie.

And if they ever did, they woulnd't hire you guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this at all useful advice for anyone trying to decide how to pursue their dream. Just because you didn't attend RAA, does not mean that someone else might have a fantastic experience there. If you want to share advice, tell people to due their "due diligence". Find a place they can see themselves being successful. Look past the marketing and talk to the students. One way, your way, is going to be the best way for EVERYONE.

On another note, back up your statements w/ facts and I am sure... well, I can't speak for everyone, but at least for me, your opinion might be received a tad more civily.

SmitteyB · February 24th, 2005, 17:05

I'm sorry, this was a referring to another thread. Apologize.

I'm sure PanAm has a great flight program, but the way they lure students is kind of fishy. That's all I have to say about PanAm...if you would like to start a discussion about RAA, PM me, I'll be glad to give advice.

Lima_Charlie · February 24th, 2005, 17:15

No thanks... I am not real concerned w/ what RAA has going on. I have made my decision, and am quite happy where I am at. I have no reason to, nor has the school given me any reason to regret my decision.

I encourage anyone that lurks, surfs, browses or puruses this forum to find out for themselves if Pan Am would be a good fit for them. If you have questions that you would rather not post, feel free to PM... I will give you the skinny on the school...

Kristie · February 24th, 2005, 17:45

and back we go to the original question at hand...

kellwolf · February 24th, 2005, 19:42

[ QUOTE ]
4 guys went to express jet with under 750hrs
5 others went to express jet with under 1100hrs

[/ QUOTE ]
Just a note on XJT, this is nothing to do with PanAm's training. I know guys that got hired there with under 700 hours that were FBO CFIs.
[ QUOTE ]
4 people went to mesaba with under 1100hrs
3 went to chautauqua with under 1200hrs
1 to PSA with less than 1200hrs.
2 to piedmont with less than 1100hrs.

[/ QUOTE ]
Check the mins on these airlines. You'll find those hours are pretty much the norm. Once again, nothing special about PanAm.
[ QUOTE ]
2 to chicago express under 600hrs (2 dvt guys)

[/ QUOTE ]
These guys I feel bad for.....
[ QUOTE ]
7 went to skyway below mins (700-1100hrs)

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, how long ago was that? Last I heard Skyway was borderline furloughing. One of my old instructors has been in a hiring pool for them for almost a year. He finally gave up and went corporate. If they were hired, did they ever get a class date?

See, this is the stuff we're talking about. The people hired with times above could just as easily gotten the job out of ATP, Skymate or a local FBO. PanAm's program had very little, if anything, to do with it.

RedCFI · February 24th, 2005, 21:52

I know you're not challenging the numbers, I am saying that they are getting people hired with lower minimums than what is posted. As far as those numbers go if you follow aviationinterviews.com and check what most people are getting hired at they are on average lower. The skyway peoples were hired from may to july, with the last guy being interviewed and hired sometime around september. Only 1 got furloughed. I understand UND gets people jobs w/lower hours also, so does SIU and ERAU... whippeee do that doesn't make those numbers the "NORM". Anyways, I'm not backing them saying they are 100% hold true to the marketing, but if you believe every piece of marketing from a flight school well then I have some good property for sale in the central southwest part of florida that I promise will go up in price 20x if you buy it.

project7 · February 24th, 2005, 22:05

[ QUOTE ]
See, this is the stuff we're talking about. The people hired with times above could just as easily gotten the job out of ATP, Skymate or a local FBO. PanAm's program had very little, if anything, to do with it

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's exactly what gets everybody's blood pressure going. The insinuation is that Pan Am grads have an advantage over everyone else. The underlying concept of their current marketing strategy isn't to persuade someone to attend their school, it's to provoke the idea that not attending Pan Am will inherently leave you at a disadvantage. For potential customers who know little or nothing about the aviation industry, this is a very strong message.

In the interest of productive feedback, I can think of a few ways Pan Am and it's employees can gain credibility and marketing appeal to those who 'know whats up':
1. Make your website and other marketing media more factual and less persuasive. This is a key reason why no one seems to have a problem with marketing from programs like ATP.
2. Employees (i.e., Pan Am instructors who frequent this website) could point out aspects of Pan Am's program that they didn't like or that they feel could be improved. When there is a total absence of criticisms from current employees at any organization, that sends up a 'red flag' to many people.
3. Update your data. I'm referring to the information about hiring and upgrade times, expected salaries, etc. (I know everyone has been saying this, but I just want to reiterate it because it's an important point).

kellwolf · February 24th, 2005, 22:35

I wasn't talking about ANY flight school getting people hired below minimums. Honestly, you can't count XJT. If you had 600/100 and a pulse you at least got an interview at one point. The "norm" I was talking about are the published minumus for those airlines. For the most part, you're claiming that PanAm grads were hired with "less than XX." In some cases, the number up there is in fact MORE than the published minimums. If that's the case, that puts PanAm no better than any other school. At the end of the day, it's the PILOT and the way they perform in the interview, not the school they attended, that gets the job.

Lima_Charlie · February 25th, 2005, 00:31

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't talking about ANY flight school getting people hired below minimums. Honestly, you can't count XJT. If you had 600/100 and a pulse you at least got an interview at one point. The "norm" I was talking about are the published minumus for those airlines. For the most part, you're claiming that PanAm grads were hired with "less than XX." In some cases, the number up there is in fact MORE than the published minimums. If that's the case, that puts PanAm no better than any other school. At the end of the day, it's the PILOT and the way they perform in the interview, not the school they attended, that gets the job.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will agree with some of you are saying. The thing I would ask you to consider is the timing of whole hiring process. The guys that went to XJT had the time they had because there weren't any other option out there for them to take advantage of. As much as I wish we could, even Pan Am can't force an airline to hire people, no matter how many hours they have or how "great" of pilot they are. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 6-18 months....

February 24th, 2005, 12:29	#3
RedCFI Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 17	Re: Question for PanAm #2 Well, I went through pan am and instructed there so I can back some of those numbers up for ya. 4 guys went to express jet with under 750hrs 5 others went to express jet with under 1100hrs 2 to chicago express under 600hrs (2 dvt guys) 4 people went to mesaba with under 1100hrs 3 went to chautauqua with under 1200hrs 1 to PSA with less than 1200hrs. 2 to piedmont with less than 1100hrs. 7 went to skyway below mins (700-1100hrs) 1 to american eagle at 1100hrs ---- That was from April 04 until November 04... These are only the people I can think of off the top of my head, most of them friends of mine. As for the class I started in 13 started, 11 of us are in jets, the other is at mesaba in the slaab and the other guy is on forums bitching cause he he didn't know his As* from first base and can't get hired. But of course its pan am's fault because he didn't get hired. Oh by the way when I came to this regional (#1 in the country for 2004) I took a 40% pay cut from my salary at pan am. I also had offers from 3 different airlines and a corporate job while I was in class here. My point is you're going to get out of it what you put into it. If you aren't happy going through training the chances of you being happy while online your first few years is going to be really low. I commend lima charlie for his attitude, those are the people I want to fly with. Do I agree w/pan am's marketing??? Come on,.. thats a no brainer of course nothing is guaranteed it is all on an individual basis but remember it is a business. You are right, if you're a gullible person with a large line of credit that doesn't do their homework about one of the biggest investments in their life they might buy into some of the marketing and expect a job to be handed to them. Thats my 2 cents, its my belief every school has its ups and downs, but what it comes down to is what works best for you.

February 24th, 2005, 13:30	#4
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	Re: Question for PanAm #2 I think I confused you with my post. I wasn't questioning that PanAm guys are getting hired at the regionals with low time. I'm questioning PanAm's advertising claim that their grads get on with LOWER times than other places. The regionals you mention have hired guys from many places with the times you mention. I don't think PanAm is special in this regard.

February 24th, 2005, 13:32	#5
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info... I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!!

February 24th, 2005, 13:49	#6
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,957	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 [ QUOTE ] Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info... I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!! [/ QUOTE ] BULL. Piedmont never hires outside the UND barriers. That is a big old lie. And if they ever did, they woulnd't hire you guys.

February 24th, 2005, 15:15	#7
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 SmitteyB- For someone who's not yet in it, you seem to "know" an awful lot about the industry all of a sudden. You are doing a disservice to Don's efforts by speaking of what you do not know. By the way, Piedmont doesn't hire exclusively UND guys. RedCFI- Those numbers you posted are pretty much the norm for a lot of those regionals. What's your point?

February 21st, 2005, 02:24	#1
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	Question for PanAm #2 "Pan Am International Flight Academy graduates are able to obtain jobs at airlines with flight times notably lower than graduates from other academies" "Most Pan Am International Flight Academy graduates are placed at an airline when he/she has approximately 1000 hours of flight time." Mesa hires MAPD guys with 300 hours. XJT and Eagle have hired with less that 1000 total...depending on their need for pilots. Ameriflight hires guys with 1200 total. DCA guys get interviews at 1000 total. Chime in with the truth, jetcareers members. Those are the ones I know of. There are more examples out there.... PanAm claims to "place" pilots at airlines with less time? Prove it. You have a list your grads who have been hired at various regionals. You say they are getting hired with less time? Please....post their stats when they got hired? You are all about saying guys get hired with less time because of PanAm's superior program...or whatever. Yet, you offer no proof in numbers? Give us the the times these guys had when they got hired so we can compare them to other schools/sources. I'm willing to bet folks from other sources, including part 61 flight schools, are getting hired with the same times as PanAm. PanAm marketing is smoke and mirrors. Those of us with experience in the industry see if for what it is. Don't be fooled by their silly claims.

February 21st, 2005, 16:38	#2
little_cricket Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 136	Re: Question for PanAm #2 http://www.panamacademy.com/career.asp?ID=324 One had 570 hours and another had 600 hours, too bad they were hired by Chicago Express. I didn't look too close, but I didn't see any other hours posted for recent hires. Pan Am does have agreements with a few airlines for below minimum hours applicants, however by the time it is set up probably reach the minimums unless it a large group interview that they do every once in a while. Personal side note option: I, personally don't like to see those with so little experience on the flight deck. Many (not all) have scary attitudes of knowing it all with their vast experience. But, I digress...

February 24th, 2005, 15:21	#8
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,957	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 [ QUOTE ] By the way, Piedmont doesn't hire exclusively UND guys. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, they do. Give me a specific example of a PanAm or any other academy grad hired by Piedmont. I'm not wrong about this. I may not yet be in, but I've been around it for a while. And what ''disservice'' are you speaking of? Because I am agreeing with him?

February 24th, 2005, 15:49	#9
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,605	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 [ QUOTE ] Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info... I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!! [/ QUOTE ] They have hired at least 50-60 guys/gals from UND in less than a year with a minimum 500 tt and 50 multi. Not try to sound like SmittyB (an ass), but I am wondering how can Pan Am claim "they are hiring from our us at lower times than others" when UND pilots are getting hired with the same hours if not lower? Disclaimer: Just friendly discussion, not intended as flame bait

February 24th, 2005, 15:55	#10
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,957	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 [ QUOTE ] Not try to sound like SmittyB (an ass), but I am wondering how can Pan Am claim "they are hiring from our us at lower times than others" when UND pilots are getting hired with the same hours if not lower? [/ QUOTE ] My point exactly. By the way, you know you've been a ####head too. Since my first post, all you show towards me is malice. My posts are personal opinion and mostly factually driven. Unlike your blatant personal attacks, just because you don't agree with my posts.

February 24th, 2005, 15:56	#11
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info... I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!! [/ QUOTE ] They have hired at least 50-60 guys/gals from UND in less than a year with a minimum 500 tt and 50 multi. Not try to sound like SmittyB (an ass), but I am wondering how can Pan Am claim "they are hiring from our us at lower times than others" when UND pilots are getting hired with the same hours if not lower? Disclaimer: Just friendly discussion, not intended as flame bait [/ QUOTE ] No worries Ruppert... All I am going by is the big notice that was posted up in our dispatch lobby. I think it is great that UND grads have that opportunity. The quote you mentioned says "hiring from us at lower time than others", not lower time than everybody else. If we said "everybody" then that might incur the wrath of the "watchdog"!!

February 24th, 2005, 16:00	#12
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,641	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 Smittey, i ve been biting my tongue a long time now. But i think your making a complete ass of yourself with your weak comments about academys. "It is better to not open your mouth and people think your a fool, then to open it and remove all doubt"

February 24th, 2005, 16:06	#13
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 Smittey, no offense, but you seem to be overcompensating a little bit. What exactly is your mission here? I think your time would be better spent knocking out your writtens or reading the FAR/AIM or something. You seem to have something to say about every school out there, whether it's true or not. Very few of your comments are backed up by anything, you just trash talk. For example, things like, "Forget you ever heard of RAA," don't help anyone. You can say that, and I agree that RAA is a scam, but you can't just say that and not back it up. No one is going to pay attention to quick jabs that aren't backed up with at least an explanation of why you believe what you say, or better yet, facts.

February 24th, 2005, 16:12	#14
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info... I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!! [/ QUOTE ] BULL. Piedmont never hires outside the UND barriers. That is a big old lie. And if they ever did, they woulnd't hire you guys. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is the kind of stuff ESF is referring to... I am happy to engage in "peaceful" discussion, and respect an opinion, up until this sort of shiznat comes up.

February 24th, 2005, 16:15	#15
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 That is exactly the stuff I am referring to. FWIW, I've run into several PanAm grads in my travels, and all were completely professional. They didn't have 2 heads and red eyes or anything. I only flew with one who was a fellow instructor, and he was just as good a pilot as as any.

February 24th, 2005, 16:37	#16
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,957	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 The reason I knock on the academies is because my first post here, I was a starry-eyed RAA guy. I was set on going, and you guys tore me apart, and showed me I didn't need to spend the money. I couldn't thank the guys here enough for helping me, and they said "Don't worry about it, just pass along the information". Now, when I do try to show the guys that I was once like, I get beat up by you guys, which are the same ones who helped me. Show me the logic there...if you want me to pipe down and let these guys make the mistakes fine, I'm gone. However, the facts that I use to back up my posts are from the 5 years experience I have in and around aviation, FBOs and airlines. The guys come here looking for advice, and I have advice to give. "Forget you ever heard of Regional Airline Academy" was a quote I recieved my first post here, by "aloft" but I didn't see you knock on him...Have you guys talked with RAA, I've visited and saw it myself, so I think I've got a little more leverage to speak than you guys.

February 24th, 2005, 16:49	#17
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well, Peidmont Air is hiring Pan Am grads at 500 TT and 100 ME. I would say that is lower than the norm. I have not heard how many PA grads they are looking for, but I will certainly post an update when I get that info... I bet it was our half truths, and deceittful marketing brochures that "bamboozzalled" them into hiring our guys!! Yes, it worked again!!!! Muuuaaahhhhahahahahahh!!! [/ QUOTE ] BULL. Piedmont never hires outside the UND barriers. That is a big old lie. And if they ever did, they woulnd't hire you guys. [/ QUOTE ] How is this at all useful advice for anyone trying to decide how to pursue their dream. Just because you didn't attend RAA, does not mean that someone else might have a fantastic experience there. If you want to share advice, tell people to due their "due diligence". Find a place they can see themselves being successful. Look past the marketing and talk to the students. One way, your way, is going to be the best way for EVERYONE. On another note, back up your statements w/ facts and I am sure... well, I can't speak for everyone, but at least for me, your opinion might be received a tad more civily.

February 24th, 2005, 17:05	#18
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,957	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 I'm sorry, this was a referring to another thread. Apologize. I'm sure PanAm has a great flight program, but the way they lure students is kind of fishy. That's all I have to say about PanAm...if you would like to start a discussion about RAA, PM me, I'll be glad to give advice.

February 24th, 2005, 17:15	#19
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 No thanks... I am not real concerned w/ what RAA has going on. I have made my decision, and am quite happy where I am at. I have no reason to, nor has the school given me any reason to regret my decision. I encourage anyone that lurks, surfs, browses or puruses this forum to find out for themselves if Pan Am would be a good fit for them. If you have questions that you would rather not post, feel free to PM... I will give you the skinny on the school...

February 24th, 2005, 17:45	#20
Kristie Big Chief's Woman Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Posts: 18,759 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Peidmont Air...Hiring 500/100 and back we go to the original question at hand...

February 24th, 2005, 19:42	#21
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,870	Re: Question for PanAm #2 [ QUOTE ] 4 guys went to express jet with under 750hrs 5 others went to express jet with under 1100hrs [/ QUOTE ] Just a note on XJT, this is nothing to do with PanAm's training. I know guys that got hired there with under 700 hours that were FBO CFIs. [ QUOTE ] 4 people went to mesaba with under 1100hrs 3 went to chautauqua with under 1200hrs 1 to PSA with less than 1200hrs. 2 to piedmont with less than 1100hrs. [/ QUOTE ] Check the mins on these airlines. You'll find those hours are pretty much the norm. Once again, nothing special about PanAm. [ QUOTE ] 2 to chicago express under 600hrs (2 dvt guys) [/ QUOTE ] These guys I feel bad for..... [ QUOTE ] 7 went to skyway below mins (700-1100hrs) [/ QUOTE ] Um, how long ago was that? Last I heard Skyway was borderline furloughing. One of my old instructors has been in a hiring pool for them for almost a year. He finally gave up and went corporate. If they were hired, did they ever get a class date? See, this is the stuff we're talking about. The people hired with times above could just as easily gotten the job out of ATP, Skymate or a local FBO. PanAm's program had very little, if anything, to do with it.

February 24th, 2005, 21:52	#22
RedCFI Newbie Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 17	Re: Question for PanAm #2 I know you're not challenging the numbers, I am saying that they are getting people hired with lower minimums than what is posted. As far as those numbers go if you follow aviationinterviews.com and check what most people are getting hired at they are on average lower. The skyway peoples were hired from may to july, with the last guy being interviewed and hired sometime around september. Only 1 got furloughed. I understand UND gets people jobs w/lower hours also, so does SIU and ERAU... whippeee do that doesn't make those numbers the "NORM". Anyways, I'm not backing them saying they are 100% hold true to the marketing, but if you believe every piece of marketing from a flight school well then I have some good property for sale in the central southwest part of florida that I promise will go up in price 20x if you buy it.

February 24th, 2005, 22:05	#23
project7 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 430	Re: Question for PanAm #2 [ QUOTE ] See, this is the stuff we're talking about. The people hired with times above could just as easily gotten the job out of ATP, Skymate or a local FBO. PanAm's program had very little, if anything, to do with it [/ QUOTE ] I think that's exactly what gets everybody's blood pressure going. The insinuation is that Pan Am grads have an advantage over everyone else. The underlying concept of their current marketing strategy isn't to persuade someone to attend their school, it's to provoke the idea that not attending Pan Am will inherently leave you at a disadvantage. For potential customers who know little or nothing about the aviation industry, this is a very strong message. In the interest of productive feedback, I can think of a few ways Pan Am and it's employees can gain credibility and marketing appeal to those who 'know whats up': 1. Make your website and other marketing media more factual and less persuasive. This is a key reason why no one seems to have a problem with marketing from programs like ATP. 2. Employees (i.e., Pan Am instructors who frequent this website) could point out aspects of Pan Am's program that they didn't like or that they feel could be improved. When there is a total absence of criticisms from current employees at any organization, that sends up a 'red flag' to many people. 3. Update your data. I'm referring to the information about hiring and upgrade times, expected salaries, etc. (I know everyone has been saying this, but I just want to reiterate it because it's an important point).

February 24th, 2005, 22:35	#24
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,870	Re: Question for PanAm #2 I wasn't talking about ANY flight school getting people hired below minimums. Honestly, you can't count XJT. If you had 600/100 and a pulse you at least got an interview at one point. The "norm" I was talking about are the published minumus for those airlines. For the most part, you're claiming that PanAm grads were hired with "less than XX." In some cases, the number up there is in fact MORE than the published minimums. If that's the case, that puts PanAm no better than any other school. At the end of the day, it's the PILOT and the way they perform in the interview, not the school they attended, that gets the job.

February 25th, 2005, 00:31	#25
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: Question for PanAm #2 [ QUOTE ] I wasn't talking about ANY flight school getting people hired below minimums. Honestly, you can't count XJT. If you had 600/100 and a pulse you at least got an interview at one point. The "norm" I was talking about are the published minumus for those airlines. For the most part, you're claiming that PanAm grads were hired with "less than XX." In some cases, the number up there is in fact MORE than the published minimums. If that's the case, that puts PanAm no better than any other school. At the end of the day, it's the PILOT and the way they perform in the interview, not the school they attended, that gets the job. [/ QUOTE ] I will agree with some of you are saying. The thing I would ask you to consider is the timing of whole hiring process. The guys that went to XJT had the time they had because there weren't any other option out there for them to take advantage of. As much as I wish we could, even Pan Am can't force an airline to hire people, no matter how many hours they have or how "great" of pilot they are. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 6-18 months....

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