Question for PanAm #2

[kellwolf]

The POINT is not the timing, the POINT was that people that did NOT train at PanAm were getting hired with similar times. The timing is the same across the board whether you went to PanAm or Joe's Flight school. As you said, "even Pan Am can't force an airline to hire people, no matter how many hours they have or how "great" of pilot they are." No flight school can do that. Like was said earlier, the wording of most major academy (not just PanAm in this one) marketing is that people wanting to fly for the airline won't even get an interview unless they go through their program.

[Lima_Charlie]

I don't think that any school has gone so far as to say that "you won't get an interview if you don't go to our school". That would be ludicras. However, I am sure that many schools have implied that "if you attend our school, you stand a better chance of getting an interview." Subtle difference, but none the less, a difference.

No business worth it's salt, or that has any desire to be successful, is going to claim to be anything but the best. Yes, many people may take issue with that claim, but it makes absolutely no sense to promote a business as being "average", "just okay", or maginally better than the worst". (I am just talking in the main business sense, not the "my school is better than your school" mentality.) The problem arises is when the "proof is NOT in the pudding"!

Since I am sure that last statement will be foder for the masses, here is my disclaimer... Pan Am has had some serious issues in the past. Much effort is being put into improving our "pudding". Give us a chance, and if we don't deliver, I will be the first one to ring that bell!!

[Kristie]

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See, this is the stuff we're talking about. The people hired with times above could just as easily gotten the job out of ATP, Skymate or a local FBO. PanAm's program had very little, if anything, to do with it

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I think that's exactly what gets everybody's blood pressure going. The insinuation is that Pan Am grads have an advantage over everyone else. The underlying concept of their current marketing strategy isn't to persuade someone to attend their school, it's to provoke the idea that not attending Pan Am will inherently leave you at a disadvantage. For potential customers who know little or nothing about the aviation industry, this is a very strong message.

In the interest of productive feedback, I can think of a few ways Pan Am and it's employees can gain credibility and marketing appeal to those who 'know whats up':
1. Make your website and other marketing media more factual and less persuasive. This is a key reason why no one seems to have a problem with marketing from programs like ATP.
2. Employees (i.e., Pan Am instructors who frequent this website) could point out aspects of Pan Am's program that they didn't like or that they feel could be improved. When there is a total absence of criticisms from current employees at any organization, that sends up a 'red flag' to many people.
3. Update your data. I'm referring to the information about hiring and upgrade times, expected salaries, etc. (I know everyone has been saying this, but I just want to reiterate it because it's an important point).

[/ QUOTE ]I LOVE productive feedback!!! Thank YOU for your suggestions...

This is the type of thing, as a business woman, I like to see...We can say all the nasty verbage in the world, but without suggestions to fix them - how would you even start? Any good business man/woman wants to hear from the client or even future client on how they could make their product more salivating than all the other products out there that are similar...Any *good* business man/woman who doesn't listen to their clients probably wouldn't be in business for much longer and would only be hurting themselves in the end. But I digress...

I really hope the PA guys (the ones that CAN make changes) are reading this, cuz this is just GOOD stuff!

If you don't mind.. I'd like to expand on this one just a tad ->2. Employees (i.e., Pan Am instructors who frequent this website) could point out aspects of Pan Am's program that they didn't like or that they feel could be improved. When there is a total absence of criticisms from current employees at any organization, that sends up a 'red flag' to many people.

=>this might already be a "DUH, already know it!" type thing... But...As an employer, you should be open and responsive to *listening* to your employees complaints and suggestions while they are working at your company, not after they leave and NOT at the yearly performance review. If you can't or won't allow them to be open and honest without saying "That's it... YOUR Fired" then you won't have many or any employees giving referrals to future clients and/or employees and that becomes part of the downfall of the company. Your employees (ie: instructors) should be able to come forward at any time (whether in person, via email, as an anonymous user on a public forum) to speak their mind without the worry of repercussions. Keep in mind that keeping the critiques, survey's or what have you anonymous are a great way for others to feel more comfortable in giving negative feedback and it's always a good idea to come back after said survey has been totalled and talk about what steps are being taken to correct any negative feedback.

...ok, I'm done..Continue on...

[project7]

One more suggestion for Pan Am:

Put the estimated costs of each course on your website. As it is currently, there is a description of the number of hours and a timeframe listed for each. It would be fairly simple to include a price for each course based on the number of hours in the description. Of course, those times (and thus the costs) are approximate but a disclaimer could be included stating such. When I requested info and took the tour, I remember that the approximate program costs were almost like some kind of secret. The actual aircraft rental and instructor rates were non-existent. The "counselor" I spoke with had to double-check on the instructor rate for me and I had to figure out the aircraft rates by doing my own math. It was somewhat disconcerting to me at the time, and it would be an easy fix if you guys are looking to improve public relations.

[Raskolnikov]

I agree! I really don't like it when rental and instructor costs aren't clearly included on the website. It's one of the things I look for, and if it's not there, they don't even get a phone call and they certainly don't get my business. It just means they have something to hide.

[Kristie]

that or they give individual prices which isn't right either.. everyone getting the same training should be getting the same bill.

[Lima_Charlie]

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that or they give individual prices which isn't right either.. everyone getting the same training should be getting the same bill.

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Everyone gets the same estimate. The only change in the estimate is if someone comes into the school already having completed some of their ratings. In those cases, the estimate would be adjusted down.

[kellwolf]

What if you go passed their estimate (i.e. take more hours than the original quote)? Do they charge for that, or is it a "guaranteed price?"

[Lima_Charlie]

No, it is not a guaranteed price. The final cost really depends on your proficiency. Some guys, the ones that really put all their effort into it, will come in under budget. The ones that don't tend to put in the effort, or catch on as quick, will go over. I went over budget on my PPL because I had a real hard time getting my landings down. I just couldn't get it...

The student that I have now, is both under budget in both and time and money, and he is working on his commercial rating. I have every intension of keeping it that way.

[dakovich]

no place can really offer a guarenteed price. even ATP doesn't as i found out...if you happen to go over on any particular course (ie. PPL), then they just subtract that extra time you used from the time you would have had on your cross country "route" flying. so if you went over 10 hours on your private, then you'll fly 10 hours less of route XC's to compensate. or so i've been told.