A Future Student's Perspective

JJZZAK · February 14th, 2005, 17:00

I had my first flight here in my hometown in Michigan about 8 months ago with a local instructor, and have been hooked ever since. I spent quite a bit of time looking into various flight schools, and naturally happened across Pan Am. As it was narrowed down, Pan Am stayed at the forefront of my interest. I corresponded with a councelor at the school over several months via e-mail and phone, and he was always extremely helpful and willing to answer any questions I could come up with. Last month my father and I flew out to Phoenix to look at the school ourselves and meet with some people from the academy. Long story short--we were both very impressed with the facilities and instructors. Everyone was very helpful and it was obvious that they enjoyed teaching. They were also very honest about the process. We were informed right up front about the fee for leaving early, about the "wash-out" rate and why it usually occurs (I don't remember exact figures, but it was large enough that they weren't trying to "sell" me anything). They made it very clear that it was no 'easy, fast track' to success, but that the intense scheduling and preparation expected on my part would lead to completion of the program faster than at other academies or private schools. Basically, I never felt like I was having a sales-pitch thrown at me. I left feeling satisfied that this was a good choice for me. I have put in my application and been accepted into the program starting early May. About a week ago, I discovered this message board and the numerous posts of Mr. Mav

As I read his posts, I felt crushed. But the further into the board I read, the more I realized that it wasn't a real reflection on the school, but a bitter ex-student who for one reason or another couldn't continue the program and had to pay the fee which he agreed to in his contract. I can understand his frustration, but the bottom line is that he signed a contract which he should have read more carefully. I wasn't planning on ever posting, but after his latest unprovoked attack, I have to wonder why, after 2 years, he still feels the need to hang around here and knock the school down. Yeah, you're disgruntled and all that, but get over it. The school isn't a scam, you weren't "conned" out of money. You made a poor choice. Suck it up and leave everyone else alone about it. Just so you're aware, that was a personal attack. Sometimes that's what it takes, because it seems that your touted "professionalism" doesn't get the point across to you. You're really not helping anyone by whining about how bad you think Pan Am is.

Lima_Charlie · February 14th, 2005, 17:13

JJ...

Glad you enjoyed your visit!!! You sound like someone that has their head on straight and will do well in a program like this. So when do you start?? Are you coming in with any flight time, or starting from scratch??

One thought for you... If you can get your hands on a used copy of the Jeppesen Private Pilot manual, drop me a PM, and I will tell you what is covered the first couple of weeks in ground school. Use the time between now and the time you start ground school to get ahead in the ground school material. It is going to come at you fast and furious, and if you can give yourself a head start, you will be that much more ahead of the curve.

Let me know when you are on campus!!

LC

EatSleepFly · February 14th, 2005, 17:14

Ha, this should get interesting.

Here is my $.02...read very very carefully:

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU GET YOUR RATINGS!!!

Aside from my very first instructing job, nobody has ever given two #####s where I did my training. On some interviews they might ask, but they certainly wouldn't have desicriminated if I had said, "Oh, I did all my training at a little FBO," instead of, "oh, I spent way too much $$$ and went to FSI." If I had a time machine, I would've done a lot of things different...including not going to a "flight academy." It's your money, do what you want. Enjoy your stay at PanAm and the loan payments that will follow.

project7 · February 14th, 2005, 17:55

First of all, it's not just mav and it's not just this forum. I'm glad EatSleepFly posted here about FSI. If you look through every forum on this website, you will find that the advice he just gave you is a universal statement about flight training in general, not any specific academy.

Even if you train at an FBO with brand new aircraft and that charges the same hourly rates for them as pan am, you will still save money by eliminating the unnecessary courses. The best example of this is ACE. Take the $8,000 or whatever it is now that they would have you spend on 15 hours in a link trainer and spend it on another 100 hours of multi-engine time.

I've probably said this 15 times here this week, but the best thing you can do is listen to people who have already achieved your goal, and there are plenty of them on this board.

Just to get you started, the guys who's posts helped me the most in regards to deciding on flight training were Doug, MikeD, DE727UPS, Bogberto, and EatSleepFly. There's plenty more so do yourself a favor and dig around the website for awhile, it's one of the few ways for someone like me or you to get honest answers about this industry.

montanapilot · February 14th, 2005, 23:30

dude your gonna spend way way too much for your ratings cause the airlines dont give a flying fock where you got your tickets at.

MikeD · February 15th, 2005, 02:08

[ QUOTE ]
Just so you're aware, that was a personal attack.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you'd better not make another, mister.

Criticize? Have at it. Personal attacks? Not so much.

You're going on the list.........someone's finally displaced aloft.

DE727UPS · February 15th, 2005, 02:15

"Suck it up and leave everyone else alone about it. Just so you're aware, that was a personal attack."

Hummmm...you've been here a week and already you're doing personal attacks. If you're gonna stick around here, your gonna have to do better than that, though. Maybe Montanapilot or Aloft could give you some personal attack lessons.

The guy has a right to his opinions. Just like you. Just like me.

He was there. You took a tour and haven't even started there yet, but now your such an expert that you can come around here and tell him to suck it up? Very uncool....

Trust me kiddo....there is a lot of very good information about the industry and how things work, here at jetcareers. It's stuff they aren't gonna tell you at PanAm.

I hope you stick around this site and learn from it with an open mind. I also hope you post more about your experiences at PanAm, once you get started.

dakovich · February 15th, 2005, 11:51

its not just one person who had a bad experience. i enjoyed my time there but there were some things that i did have some concerns about.

all-n-all i probably would have sucked it up and finished had i not had issues back home that needed me to move back.

just remember there are a bunch of different ways to get those ratings and build time to get you into a flying career. check the numbers, ignore the pretty advertising that most every school puts out, really take a look at these forums to see what kind of expereince you'll need to get hired...don't go by what the schools tell you. and see what other people's expereinces have been, thats an invaluable tool that JC provides all of us. and after investigating that, make an educated decision about where you take your training, and where your $$$$$$$$$ goes.

SmitteyB · February 15th, 2005, 16:42

[ QUOTE ]
It's your money, do what you want. Enjoy your stay at PanAm and the loan payments that will follow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha...I'm surprised the contract doesn't say "Declaration of Pre-Bankruptcy"....If I lived in a much nicer climate, I would have stayed at an FBO, but I don't so I'm going to something similar, Ari-Ben while getting my degree in Marketing.

I really can't thank DE727UPS and Doug, etc for helping me see the light. They saved me thousands of dollars. Not to mention bankruptcy. I used to think UPS was a sour old man too, but...he's only 100 times smarter than you.

I'm not saying it's impossible to pay off the loan going to PanAm...I'm just saying an 800.00/month bill is a little much for something you could have gotten for half the price just on the other side of the airport?

kellwolf · February 15th, 2005, 17:18

Is that $800 an actual quote? I'm paying about a quarter of that, and I'll have all my ratings and a degree. I did do a lot of "pay as ya go" while I was at SWA, though.

SmitteyB · February 15th, 2005, 17:29

I'm just saying if you take out an $85,000 dollar loan for PanAm + degree....you're looking at 600-900 a month for 180 months...kind of hard to make that payment when you don't know if you're going to have a CFI job. Just an opinion, I'm sure it can be done.

kellwolf · February 15th, 2005, 18:33

Actually it's kinda hard to make that payment if you DO know you've got a CFI job.....

SmitteyB · February 15th, 2005, 19:30

[ QUOTE ]
Actually it's kinda hard to make that payment if you DO know you've got a CFI job.....

[/ QUOTE ]

My point exactly. Why pay that much?

dakovich · February 16th, 2005, 19:00

i left early, but i did end up using about $74,000 of the $80,000 i had from KEY. the payment per month is around $460.00. if i had stayed to the end i would have had to pay for ACE and the instructor ratings so that would have put me up another $15,000 or so and then i would be paying well north of $500.00/month. oh, and don't forget that college loan...ouch! honestly, the thing that costs the most is living expenses...basically its money that is spent without getting any kind of return from it.so don't forget to include that in the cost of attending school (be it college or a flight academy).

and trying to make ends meet while being a CFI is a pain in the ass with bills like that. not to mention i teach up North, so basically i starve during the winter. it sucks, but i love doing this so i trudge on.

Mavmb · February 17th, 2005, 00:21

[ QUOTE ]
I had my first flight here in my hometown in Michigan about 8 months ago with a local instructor, and have been hooked ever since. I spent quite a bit of time looking into various flight schools, and naturally happened across Pan Am. As it was narrowed down, Pan Am stayed at the forefront of my interest. I corresponded with a councelor at the school over several months via e-mail and phone, and he was always extremely helpful and willing to answer any questions I could come up with. Last month my father and I flew out to Phoenix to look at the school ourselves and meet with some people from the academy. Long story short--we were both very impressed with the facilities and instructors. Everyone was very helpful and it was obvious that they enjoyed teaching. They were also very honest about the process. We were informed right up front about the fee for leaving early, about the "wash-out" rate and why it usually occurs (I don't remember exact figures, but it was large enough that they weren't trying to "sell" me anything). They made it very clear that it was no 'easy, fast track' to success, but that the intense scheduling and preparation expected on my part would lead to completion of the program faster than at other academies or private schools. Basically, I never felt like I was having a sales-pitch thrown at me. I left feeling satisfied that this was a good choice for me. I have put in my application and been accepted into the program starting early May. About a week ago, I discovered this message board and the numerous posts of Mr. Mav

As I read his posts, I felt crushed. But the further into the board I read, the more I realized that it wasn't a real reflection on the school, but a bitter ex-student who for one reason or another couldn't continue the program and had to pay the fee which he agreed to in his contract. I can understand his frustration, but the bottom line is that he signed a contract which he should have read more carefully. I wasn't planning on ever posting, but after his latest unprovoked attack, I have to wonder why, after 2 years, he still feels the need to hang around here and knock the school down. Yeah, you're disgruntled and all that, but get over it. The school isn't a scam, you weren't "conned" out of money. You made a poor choice. Suck it up and leave everyone else alone about it. Just so you're aware, that was a personal attack. Sometimes that's what it takes, because it seems that your touted "professionalism" doesn't get the point across to you. You're really not helping anyone by whining about how bad you think Pan Am is.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is clearly Pan Am administration doing their damage control again and posting as students. If you check the posts over the years, it has happened again and again. This same person called himself E7B in the past. They come with one post on the website and then disappear. And why would a student starting in May write that much about me in person and my quotes over the years?? Why would they care? Clearly, if they have been around this website that much they would have more than one post right???? And that post occurs right after I expose the Pan Am Contract, hmm. They certainly don't want any of their contract getting out there in the public.

Bottom line, if a school's business practices are so corrupt that they pay damage control to pretend to be content students, well you figure it out. It's sickening the way they practice business.

montanapilot · February 17th, 2005, 01:14

funny how our one post wonder has yet to follow up on his thread

Lima_Charlie · February 17th, 2005, 01:16

I am sorry, Columbo, what exactly did you expose??? I am pretty sure that everybody and their mother knows that if you quit because you can't hack it, or pull a "MAV" as we like to call it, you are going to get "ding'd" $2000. It is pretty much public knowledge.

Speaking of shady business practices... Don't get me started about Real Estate agents!!!! OMG!!! Shisters!!!

montanapilot · February 17th, 2005, 01:20

wow dude that was really mature.

Lima_Charlie · February 17th, 2005, 01:24

[ QUOTE ]
wow dude that was really mature.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that is not the pot calling the kettle black!!

montanapilot · February 17th, 2005, 01:33

ok then, please point out a specific post within the PanAm forum where i personally attacked someone. I never recall personally attacking you LC, but a certain scuba diving DCA CFI maybe

Lima_Charlie · February 17th, 2005, 01:42

[ QUOTE ]
ok then, please point out a specific post within the PanAm forum where i personally attacked someone. I never recall personally attacking you LC, but a certain scuba diving DCA CFI maybe

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, I can't remember any blatant personal attacks. I suppose my response to your "mature" comment, stemmed more from MY perception of your attitude in general. I don't know you personally, so all I have to go on is your postings...

SmitteyB · February 17th, 2005, 13:02

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok then, please point out a specific post within the PanAm forum where i personally attacked someone. I never recall personally attacking you LC, but a certain scuba diving DCA CFI maybe

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, I can't remember any blatant personal attacks. I suppose my response to your "mature" comment, stemmed more from MY perception of your attitude in general. I don't know you personally, so all I have to go on is your postings...

[/ QUOTE ]

Lima, you're only making your school look bad by your immature comments and baseless replies to peoples criticism. It really sounds like a sad situation over there at PanAm.

Doug Taylor · February 18th, 2005, 13:00

The theme of my weekend-"cleanup on aisle nine!"

JJZZAK · February 21st, 2005, 15:45

Ok, ok...sorry I don't follow up on my own posts very well but I don't spend a whole lot fo time on the computer anyway. I came off as more of an a$$ than I meant to, I was in a bad mood anyway so I take back that personal attack stuff...that was childish. But no, I'm not affiliated with Pan Am in any way (yet). I just wanted to share that I had a really good experience touring the school and I think it's run by a very good group of people. I know that there are more people than Mav with bad experiences, but I'm sure the good ones far outweigh the bad and it didn't seem like many people were sharing them.

kellwolf · February 21st, 2005, 17:32

For the record, I had a really good experience touring ATA, which appeared at the time to be run by a group of people that knew what they were doing. I even had friends enrolled at the school and a CFI that was thinking of applying there. Trust me, looks can be decieving. In retrospect, it's a damn good thing I didn't qualify for a $60K loan for the upfront costs. Turns out the owners did know what they were doing, but it had nothing to do with running the flight school.....

February 14th, 2005, 17:00	#1
JJZZAK Newbie Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2	A Future Student\'s Perspective I had my first flight here in my hometown in Michigan about 8 months ago with a local instructor, and have been hooked ever since. I spent quite a bit of time looking into various flight schools, and naturally happened across Pan Am. As it was narrowed down, Pan Am stayed at the forefront of my interest. I corresponded with a councelor at the school over several months via e-mail and phone, and he was always extremely helpful and willing to answer any questions I could come up with. Last month my father and I flew out to Phoenix to look at the school ourselves and meet with some people from the academy. Long story short--we were both very impressed with the facilities and instructors. Everyone was very helpful and it was obvious that they enjoyed teaching. They were also very honest about the process. We were informed right up front about the fee for leaving early, about the "wash-out" rate and why it usually occurs (I don't remember exact figures, but it was large enough that they weren't trying to "sell" me anything). They made it very clear that it was no 'easy, fast track' to success, but that the intense scheduling and preparation expected on my part would lead to completion of the program faster than at other academies or private schools. Basically, I never felt like I was having a sales-pitch thrown at me. I left feeling satisfied that this was a good choice for me. I have put in my application and been accepted into the program starting early May. About a week ago, I discovered this message board and the numerous posts of Mr. Mav As I read his posts, I felt crushed. But the further into the board I read, the more I realized that it wasn't a real reflection on the school, but a bitter ex-student who for one reason or another couldn't continue the program and had to pay the fee which he agreed to in his contract. I can understand his frustration, but the bottom line is that he signed a contract which he should have read more carefully. I wasn't planning on ever posting, but after his latest unprovoked attack, I have to wonder why, after 2 years, he still feels the need to hang around here and knock the school down. Yeah, you're disgruntled and all that, but get over it. The school isn't a scam, you weren't "conned" out of money. You made a poor choice. Suck it up and leave everyone else alone about it. Just so you're aware, that was a personal attack. Sometimes that's what it takes, because it seems that your touted "professionalism" doesn't get the point across to you. You're really not helping anyone by whining about how bad you think Pan Am is.

February 14th, 2005, 17:13	#2
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective JJ... Glad you enjoyed your visit!!! You sound like someone that has their head on straight and will do well in a program like this. So when do you start?? Are you coming in with any flight time, or starting from scratch?? One thought for you... If you can get your hands on a used copy of the Jeppesen Private Pilot manual, drop me a PM, and I will tell you what is covered the first couple of weeks in ground school. Use the time between now and the time you start ground school to get ahead in the ground school material. It is going to come at you fast and furious, and if you can give yourself a head start, you will be that much more ahead of the curve. Let me know when you are on campus!! LC

February 14th, 2005, 17:14	#3
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective Ha, this should get interesting. Here is my $.02...read very very carefully: *IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU GET YOUR RATINGS!!!* Aside from my very first instructing job, nobody has ever given two #####s where I did my training. On some interviews they might ask, but they certainly wouldn't have desicriminated if I had said, "Oh, I did all my training at a little FBO," instead of, "oh, I spent way too much $$$ and went to FSI." If I had a time machine, I would've done a lot of things different...including not going to a "flight academy." It's your money, do what you want. Enjoy your stay at PanAm and the loan payments that will follow.

February 14th, 2005, 17:55	#4
project7 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 430	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective First of all, it's not just mav and it's not just this forum. I'm glad EatSleepFly posted here about FSI. If you look through every forum on this website, you will find that the advice he just gave you is a universal statement about flight training in general, not any specific academy. Even if you train at an FBO with brand new aircraft and that charges the same hourly rates for them as pan am, you will still save money by eliminating the unnecessary courses. The best example of this is ACE. Take the $8,000 or whatever it is now that they would have you spend on 15 hours in a link trainer and spend it on another 100 hours of multi-engine time. I've probably said this 15 times here this week, but the best thing you can do is listen to people who have already achieved your goal, and there are plenty of them on this board. Just to get you started, the guys who's posts helped me the most in regards to deciding on flight training were Doug, MikeD, DE727UPS, Bogberto, and EatSleepFly. There's plenty more so do yourself a favor and dig around the website for awhile, it's one of the few ways for someone like me or you to get honest answers about this industry.

February 14th, 2005, 23:30	#5
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective dude your gonna spend way way too much for your ratings cause the airlines dont give a flying fock where you got your tickets at.

February 15th, 2005, 02:08	#6
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective [ QUOTE ] Just so you're aware, that was a personal attack. [/ QUOTE ] And you'd better not make another, mister. Criticize? Have at it. Personal attacks? Not so much. You're going on the list.........someone's finally displaced aloft.

February 15th, 2005, 02:15	#7
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,578	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective "Suck it up and leave everyone else alone about it. Just so you're aware, that was a personal attack." Hummmm...you've been here a week and already you're doing personal attacks. If you're gonna stick around here, your gonna have to do better than that, though. Maybe Montanapilot or Aloft could give you some personal attack lessons. The guy has a right to his opinions. Just like you. Just like me. He was there. You took a tour and haven't even started there yet, but now your such an expert that you can come around here and tell him to suck it up? Very uncool.... Trust me kiddo....there is a lot of very good information about the industry and how things work, here at jetcareers. It's stuff they aren't gonna tell you at PanAm. I hope you stick around this site and learn from it with an open mind. I also hope you post more about your experiences at PanAm, once you get started.

February 15th, 2005, 11:51	#8
dakovich Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,043	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective its not just one person who had a bad experience. i enjoyed my time there but there were some things that i did have some concerns about. all-n-all i probably would have sucked it up and finished had i not had issues back home that needed me to move back. just remember there are a bunch of different ways to get those ratings and build time to get you into a flying career. check the numbers, ignore the pretty advertising that most every school puts out, really take a look at these forums to see what kind of expereince you'll need to get hired...don't go by what the schools tell you. and see what other people's expereinces have been, thats an invaluable tool that JC provides all of us. and after investigating that, make an educated decision about where you take your training, and where your $$$$$$$$$ goes.

February 15th, 2005, 16:42	#9
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,974	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective [ QUOTE ] It's your money, do what you want. Enjoy your stay at PanAm and the loan payments that will follow. [/ QUOTE ] Haha...I'm surprised the contract doesn't say "Declaration of Pre-Bankruptcy"....If I lived in a much nicer climate, I would have stayed at an FBO, but I don't so I'm going to something similar, Ari-Ben while getting my degree in Marketing. I really can't thank DE727UPS and Doug, etc for helping me see the light. They saved me thousands of dollars. Not to mention bankruptcy. I used to think UPS was a sour old man too, but...he's only 100 times smarter than you. I'm not saying it's impossible to pay off the loan going to PanAm...I'm just saying an 800.00/month bill is a little much for something you could have gotten for half the price just on the other side of the airport?

February 15th, 2005, 17:18	#10
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,230	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective Is that $800 an actual quote? I'm paying about a quarter of that, and I'll have all my ratings and a degree. I did do a lot of "pay as ya go" while I was at SWA, though.

February 15th, 2005, 17:29	#11
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,974	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective I'm just saying if you take out an $85,000 dollar loan for PanAm + degree....you're looking at 600-900 a month for 180 months...kind of hard to make that payment when you don't know if you're going to have a CFI job. Just an opinion, I'm sure it can be done.

February 15th, 2005, 18:33	#12
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,230	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective Actually it's kinda hard to make that payment if you DO know you've got a CFI job.....

February 15th, 2005, 19:30	#13
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,974	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective [ QUOTE ] Actually it's kinda hard to make that payment if you DO know you've got a CFI job..... [/ QUOTE ] My point exactly. Why pay that much?

February 16th, 2005, 19:00	#14
dakovich Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,043	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective i left early, but i did end up using about $74,000 of the $80,000 i had from KEY. the payment per month is around $460.00. if i had stayed to the end i would have had to pay for ACE and the instructor ratings so that would have put me up another $15,000 or so and then i would be paying well north of $500.00/month. oh, and don't forget that college loan...ouch! honestly, the thing that costs the most is living expenses...basically its money that is spent without getting any kind of return from it.so don't forget to include that in the cost of attending school (be it college or a flight academy). and trying to make ends meet while being a CFI is a pain in the ass with bills like that. not to mention i teach up North, so basically i starve during the winter. it sucks, but i love doing this so i trudge on.

February 17th, 2005, 00:21	#15
Mavmb Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,169	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective [ QUOTE ] I had my first flight here in my hometown in Michigan about 8 months ago with a local instructor, and have been hooked ever since. I spent quite a bit of time looking into various flight schools, and naturally happened across Pan Am. As it was narrowed down, Pan Am stayed at the forefront of my interest. I corresponded with a councelor at the school over several months via e-mail and phone, and he was always extremely helpful and willing to answer any questions I could come up with. Last month my father and I flew out to Phoenix to look at the school ourselves and meet with some people from the academy. Long story short--we were both very impressed with the facilities and instructors. Everyone was very helpful and it was obvious that they enjoyed teaching. They were also very honest about the process. We were informed right up front about the fee for leaving early, about the "wash-out" rate and why it usually occurs (I don't remember exact figures, but it was large enough that they weren't trying to "sell" me anything). They made it very clear that it was no 'easy, fast track' to success, but that the intense scheduling and preparation expected on my part would lead to completion of the program faster than at other academies or private schools. Basically, I never felt like I was having a sales-pitch thrown at me. I left feeling satisfied that this was a good choice for me. I have put in my application and been accepted into the program starting early May. About a week ago, I discovered this message board and the numerous posts of Mr. Mav As I read his posts, I felt crushed. But the further into the board I read, the more I realized that it wasn't a real reflection on the school, but a bitter ex-student who for one reason or another couldn't continue the program and had to pay the fee which he agreed to in his contract. I can understand his frustration, but the bottom line is that he signed a contract which he should have read more carefully. I wasn't planning on ever posting, but after his latest unprovoked attack, I have to wonder why, after 2 years, he still feels the need to hang around here and knock the school down. Yeah, you're disgruntled and all that, but get over it. The school isn't a scam, you weren't "conned" out of money. You made a poor choice. Suck it up and leave everyone else alone about it. Just so you're aware, that was a personal attack. Sometimes that's what it takes, because it seems that your touted "professionalism" doesn't get the point across to you. You're really not helping anyone by whining about how bad you think Pan Am is. [/ QUOTE ] This is clearly Pan Am administration doing their damage control again and posting as students. If you check the posts over the years, it has happened again and again. This same person called himself E7B in the past. They come with one post on the website and then disappear. And why would a student starting in May write that much about me in person and my quotes over the years?? Why would they care? Clearly, if they have been around this website that much they would have more than one post right???? And that post occurs right after I expose the Pan Am Contract, hmm. They certainly don't want any of their contract getting out there in the public. Bottom line, if a school's business practices are so corrupt that they pay damage control to pretend to be content students, well you figure it out. It's sickening the way they practice business.

February 17th, 2005, 01:14	#16
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective funny how our one post wonder has yet to follow up on his thread

February 17th, 2005, 01:16	#17
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective I am sorry, Columbo, what exactly did you expose??? I am pretty sure that everybody and their mother knows that if you quit because you can't hack it, or pull a "MAV" as we like to call it, you are going to get "ding'd" $2000. It is pretty much public knowledge. Speaking of shady business practices... Don't get me started about Real Estate agents!!!! OMG!!! Shisters!!!

February 17th, 2005, 01:20	#18
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective wow dude that was really mature.

February 17th, 2005, 01:24	#19
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective [ QUOTE ] wow dude that was really mature. [/ QUOTE ] If that is not the pot calling the kettle black!!

February 17th, 2005, 01:33	#20
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective ok then, please point out a specific post within the PanAm forum where i personally attacked someone. I never recall personally attacking you LC, but a certain scuba diving DCA CFI maybe

February 17th, 2005, 01:42	#21
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective [ QUOTE ] ok then, please point out a specific post within the PanAm forum where i personally attacked someone. I never recall personally attacking you LC, but a certain scuba diving DCA CFI maybe [/ QUOTE ] You are right, I can't remember any blatant personal attacks. I suppose my response to your "mature" comment, stemmed more from MY perception of your attitude in general. I don't know you personally, so all I have to go on is your postings...

February 17th, 2005, 13:02	#22
SmitteyB Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 1,974	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] ok then, please point out a specific post within the PanAm forum where i personally attacked someone. I never recall personally attacking you LC, but a certain scuba diving DCA CFI maybe [/ QUOTE ] You are right, I can't remember any blatant personal attacks. I suppose my response to your "mature" comment, stemmed more from MY perception of your attitude in general. I don't know you personally, so all I have to go on is your postings... [/ QUOTE ] Lima, you're only making your school look bad by your immature comments and baseless replies to peoples criticism. It really sounds like a sad situation over there at PanAm.

February 18th, 2005, 13:00	#23
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,928 Blog Entries: 1	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective The theme of my weekend-"cleanup on aisle nine!"

February 21st, 2005, 15:45	#24
JJZZAK Newbie Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective Ok, ok...sorry I don't follow up on my own posts very well but I don't spend a whole lot fo time on the computer anyway. I came off as more of an a$$ than I meant to, I was in a bad mood anyway so I take back that personal attack stuff...that was childish. But no, I'm not affiliated with Pan Am in any way (yet). I just wanted to share that I had a really good experience touring the school and I think it's run by a very good group of people. I know that there are more people than Mav with bad experiences, but I'm sure the good ones far outweigh the bad and it didn't seem like many people were sharing them.

February 21st, 2005, 17:32	#25
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,230	Re: A Future Student\'s Perspective For the record, I had a really good experience touring ATA, which appeared at the time to be run by a group of people that knew what they were doing. I even had friends enrolled at the school and a CFI that was thinking of applying there. Trust me, looks can be decieving. In retrospect, it's a damn good thing I didn't qualify for a $60K loan for the upfront costs. Turns out the owners did know what they were doing, but it had nothing to do with running the flight school.....

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