CFI "Don't Hire" Black List

[climbfallfl]

Has any one heard about the black list started of people who are currently students that Pan Am has decided that don't want to hire as CFI's????

[TheFlyingTurkey]

No

[Wolverine]

No

Another rumor, when will they end???

All the CFIs that I have seen leave have left for personal reasons - went to live with parents, wives, gfs, etc

[User997]

Is this supposed black list apply towards the Ft Pierce or Phoenix campus. And furthermore, how did you hear about this? Doesn't seem like something that people would be talking about.

[dakovich]

well, there always are going to be a few that the school is most deffinetly not going to want to hire on as a CFI. they have to protect their quality of instruction integrity. which even though is great, still has some bad apples as does most every school i'm sure. they can't hire everyone, and they already know who they don't want long before the individual gets into the CFI section.

Panamguy, you've got to admit that as fact.

[Wolverine]

I don't know, I haven't heard of any blacklisted students. If they are not up to PanAm standards as they are going through the program, then they'll be weeded out at some point and they won't finish the program and become instructors.

All new CFIs go through a series of check-outs before they become instructors. When the asst. chief sees what he wants, he makes them active CFIs. Until he see what he wants, the asst. works with them and continues with the check-outs until they meet standards.

PanAm taught these CFIs everything they know, I'd hope PanAm stands behind their work.

[dakovich]

it'll actually be nice to see more full fledged Panam grads working as CFI's over in Fart Piss. there seems to be a ton of outside CFIs that work there.

same with dvt. very few of the instructors went from 0 to hero here. in fact I only know of two! most came with at least their private license!

[User997]

Yea because as far as I've been able to tell, the reason no one has gone from zero to CFI is because they had to drop out early because they ran over what they said it was cost.

The two that I think your referring to, did go all the way thru the program, but it was before they required the ACE and the Route program... Just a thought!

[climbfallfl]

If it took people too much money it is because they did not study enough or needed extra help in the plane. You can finish everything with the times they say if you bust your a**.

What I was talking about and what I found out was about people who are currently in school, who Pan Am says they won't hire. Without listing names her they are so far.

1. First and foremost you Dakovich, mainly for all the stuff you have said here on JetCareers.

2. Someone who landed gear up in a seminole

3. A guy who just bought a Vette (Overcompensation)

4. A person from south of the border

5. A british guy who is in CFI ground school right now, he apparently has ticked off managment big time

There are a few others and I will tell you when I squeeze out the information. This is only for FPR I don't know what scams DVT is up too.

[Doug Taylor]

Nah, I seriously doubt if someone would be blacklisted for something they said on jetcareers. The "powers that be" and I have pretty good communications (in my opinion) and I'd be on the telephone screaming at DVT in a second.

I honestly doubt if there's such a thing at Pan Am.

[dakovich]

i only remember once going a bit overboard because of a cost change on the HAWK sim that wasn't really explained to us at the time. i was a little fired up for that one.

but it is true that i have for the most part probably black-balled myself because of things i've said here. i can't lie, i can't not answer a question someone asks me in blind-faith without giving my honest opinion. i was retarded and picked a screen name that is basically my last name so everyone knows me wich kindda sucks.

[Doug Taylor]

If you think you're being 'blackballed', let me know and I'll work it out.

[cime_sp]

You aren't locked into your contract rates at Pan AM? They can simply change them on you? Ouch....they conveniently leftthat out of their info

[franknes]

That was my main complaint with the contract. It really doesn't benefit the student by locking in rates , etc. But protects the school. I could see paying a fee to leave the school if the contract benefits the student with guarantees of price, time or something. I think there would be a lot less complaints of this school if they did away with the contract. I have been looking into Westwind and was actually surprised that you don't have to sign a contract. That made me feel good that they believe in their program and leave it up to the student to decide if they want to continue on training or make a change that is beneficial to them. That Pan Am contract really turned me off.

[cime_sp]

I toured a number of schools before I decidedon FSI...almost all said that you are locked into the contract rates (ex. $93 hour for VFR single) for as long as you are there. If they decide to raise rates, it doesn't apply to you, but only to those people who are coming in and have not yet signed their enrollment agreement. I just assumed that is how everybody did it.

Oh well. I hope you guys get it worked out for the better. Fly safe...

[dakovich]

i believe the school allows in the contract for an increase in aircraft rental prices limited to a 10% increase or something. after 9/11 we had prices raised on everything from planes to sims to ground schools to offset for insurance increases. so, when i started everything was about $10 less per hour, but the school grandfathered our groundschool cost so there was no raise for us there. if you came in later after the increase the groundschool prices were a bit higher along with the aircraft price increase.

[cime_sp]

gotcha....glad to see they didn't get you too bad

[theman]

They tell us that the rates were raised because of higher insurance rates due to 9/11, but one of the very first things I was told by the Chief Ground Instructor on orientation was that all of PanAm's planes were paid for and self insured by E.W. Holdings (owning corp. of PanAm, Snapple, GNC....). On top of that, the rates werent raised until 10 months after 9/11.

As far as the CFI blacklist is concerned... I doubted it until I heard a couple of (high ranked) instructors talking about it today. None of the instructors I know have seen it, but it is something that administration has and will use. Also, there are currently 30 students in the CFI/II/MEI classes. These guys are contracted to have jobs when they go through the ACE program. From what I've heard... PanAm is trying to dig up dirt on these students to void their contract if PanAm gets an oversupply of instructors and does not want to hire them.

[dakovich]

i doubt they'll try and dig up dirt on anybody. maybe Panam will just go to a wait list like FSI does or something if there gets to be too many CFI candidates.

and you gotta admit that there are just some people you wouldn't want to work for you if you were Panam...not everyone that goes through the school is "super pilot" and without flaw. there are many who just coast through and are really apathetic about being a profesional pilot.

[hutch]

Dak, you always speak the truth and that's admirable. I don't see any reason you would be black balled. I also spoke the truth and used my last name. I know i was recognized because someone in admin. asked me if that was me on Jet careers. Although I left PanAm recently, I never had any problem with any of the administration. It's better to have people with truthful experiences instead of all the ######## opinions from people who never stepped foot in the school!