What the hell is wrong with....

MikeD · June 30th, 2004, 08:36

...the Pan Am forum?

I mean, sheesh, this forum is like the "south-central LA" of the JC website, needing constant "stepped up police patrols" as a result of the fights here.

People, can we converse w/o name calling, personal attacks, etc?

mtsu_av8er · June 30th, 2004, 08:50

[ QUOTE ]
...the Pan Am forum?

I mean, sheesh, this forum is like the "south-central LA" of the JC website, needing constant "stepped up police patrols" as a result of the fights here.

People, can we converse w/o name calling, personal attacks, etc?

[/ QUOTE ]

Shut up, punk....

OK..I'm done....

MikeD · June 30th, 2004, 08:54

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...the Pan Am forum?

I mean, sheesh, this forum is like the "south-central LA" of the JC website, needing constant "stepped up police patrols" as a result of the fights here.

People, can we converse w/o name calling, personal attacks, etc?

[/ QUOTE ]

Shut up, punk....

OK..I'm done....

[/ QUOTE ]

Darn smack-talking NCOs........

.......if I didn't need them to keep JC-Air America in line.......

Doug Taylor · June 30th, 2004, 11:03

I have NO idea MikeD!

And yes, this is the Bronx of the forums! I even called last summer and said that PA would greatly benefit by sending someone over to clear up some of the issues, but they (like some others) shy away from doing such.

Lima_Charlie · June 30th, 2004, 15:47

Doug/Mike,

I sincerely apologize to you for the direction that this forum has taken. When I first joined JC, I thought this would be a great place to discuss issues that revolve around flight training, as well as a place to support our fellow pilots. I never thought that the people, including myself (I will not point fingers) that surf this forum would get so beligerent with each other. I am sure that this isn't the direction that you expected either.

Anyway, you have my commitment that I will do my best to keep this forum a positive place for any aspiring pilot get accurate information. I will emphathize with those that haven't had such a positive experience in the past w/ Pan Am, and honestly answer any questions that come my way without stooping to levels seen in the past in this forum.

Again, my sincere apology.

LC

Doug Taylor · June 30th, 2004, 18:30

No real need to specifically apologize, but thanks anyhoo. I'm just curious as to if there is such a high level of complaints, how many of those complaintants have filed with the Better Business Bureau -- at least there they'll ask for specifics and the organization will have a chance to either deny, clarify, or rectify the situation.

I'm not trying to cut them any slack, just trying to figure out why no one's taken the bull by the proverbial 'horns' and done something about their issues instead of hitting the 'post' button here on jetcareers.

Lima_Charlie · June 30th, 2004, 19:42

Most likely because this is an anonymous way to vent frustrations. It is pretty easy to complain, point fingers, and blame others, when there are no consequences to what you say on a forum such as this.

mtsu_av8er · June 30th, 2004, 22:35

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...the Pan Am forum?

I mean, sheesh, this forum is like the "south-central LA" of the JC website, needing constant "stepped up police patrols" as a result of the fights here.

People, can we converse w/o name calling, personal attacks, etc?

[/ QUOTE ]

Shut up, punk....

OK..I'm done....

[/ QUOTE ]

Darn smack-talking NCOs........

.......if I didn't need them to keep JC-Air America in line.......

[/ QUOTE ]

We're good for something!!

BFLYINGHIGH · July 1st, 2004, 09:53

I have recently left Pan Am for certain reasons. I am somewhat bitter, but will try to remain calm while I write this. When left there was some unresolved money issues. I asked threm politely to refund them. They wouldn't. When I asked them it was in the schools best interest to at least meet me halfway. They said no. When I mentioned that I would report them to the BBB I was threatend. I was told " it is a small industry you don't want to burn bridges" Kind of sounds like a threat to me. So I will gladly tell the whole story once I am sure I am safe in my career. No it wasn't a large amount of money, but it is the principal of the whole thing. Great way for a so called proffesional school to talk to a former student. I only wish I would have found this web site before attending Pan AM. I have attended 2 other schools and had no problems with either of them so I do have good comparison.

So in a long round about way there is the answer to you question DOUG. I would like to report them , but not at the risk of jeopardizing my career. It sucks because I just want people to be able to know the facts when they make a choice. If anyone whants to know the full story feel fre to PM me. Thanks.

Kristie · July 1st, 2004, 10:53

Isn't there a way to report them anonymously...ie: the BBB would get your name, but the school would not?

BFLYINGHIGH · July 1st, 2004, 17:59

Well if I give the specifics I am afraid Pan Am would figure it out. I am looking into options.

rausda27 · July 1st, 2004, 21:53

I had a mortgage company based out of VA try to add 1.5% on the loan at closing (points). After the closing I informed them that I was reporting them to the BBB and the State Attorney Generals office as they were doing business in the state of Florida. Needless to say I received a phone call form the VP informing me that it was a mistake and they would be issuing a refund and there was no need to write any letters. THis may be an option.

As far as them threatening your career, I wouldn't worry about it. There arent any bridges left to burn, apparrently MAVMB already burned them all

Lima_Charlie · July 2nd, 2004, 00:02

[ QUOTE ]
I have recently left Pan Am for certain reasons. I am somewhat bitter, but will try to remain calm while I write this. When left there was some unresolved money issues. I asked threm politely to refund them. They wouldn't. When I asked them it was in the schools best interest to at least meet me halfway. They said no. When I mentioned that I would report them to the BBB I was threatend. I was told " it is a small industry you don't want to burn bridges" Kind of sounds like a threat to me. So I will gladly tell the whole story once I am sure I am safe in my career. No it wasn't a large amount of money, but it is the principal of the whole thing. Great way for a so called proffesional school to talk to a former student. I only wish I would have found this web site before attending Pan AM. I have attended 2 other schools and had no problems with either of them so I do have good comparison.

So in a long round about way there is the answer to you question DOUG. I would like to report them , but not at the risk of jeopardizing my career. It sucks because I just want people to be able to know the facts when they make a choice. If anyone whants to know the full story feel fre to PM me. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which campus did you go to?? I am hoping that it wasn't DVT, as I know some of the people on the administration end, and can't imagine them being so unhelpful!!! I personally haven't had any problems, but then again I am still a current student. I have no idea how things would change if I decided to part w/ Pan Am.

Instrument_Proficient · July 7th, 2004, 22:17

There is no way they (Pan-Scam) can ruin your career in any way by you reporting them to the BBB. IF, you do not report them soon, then your report will be useless in the future. Do it now. This school not only deserves a class action lawsuit by the students, but to be shut down for poor business practices. They are no better than ATA in my opinion.

IP

BFLYINGHIGH · July 8th, 2004, 09:18

I am afraid that if I report them and someone calls the school about my training they could give me bad reference. I know that is illegal, but how would I know what was said. I still plan on reporting them. Especially after being threatend. I think that burns me more than anything else that happened. Including losing the money. There time is comming.

project7 · July 8th, 2004, 13:43

Don't worry about getting a bad reference from pan am. A reference from them wouldn't (shouldn't) be accepted from them anyway because you paid them to be there. If you're going to work as a flight instructor, the school you apply to work at will evaluate your skills on their own. Then if you are going to apply to an airline later on, they will want a reference from the flight school where you worked, not where you trained.

BFLYINGHIGH · July 8th, 2004, 20:45

Thank you! That helps put me at ease a little.

TheFlyingTurkey · July 9th, 2004, 13:05

Before all you guys get together and "close the doors" at Pan Am, let me get a job at an airline first.

June 30th, 2004, 08:36	#1
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	What the hell is wrong with.... ...the Pan Am forum? I mean, sheesh, this forum is like the "south-central LA" of the JC website, needing constant "stepped up police patrols" as a result of the fights here. People, can we converse w/o name calling, personal attacks, etc?

June 30th, 2004, 08:50	#2
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... [ QUOTE ] ...the Pan Am forum? I mean, sheesh, this forum is like the "south-central LA" of the JC website, needing constant "stepped up police patrols" as a result of the fights here. People, can we converse w/o name calling, personal attacks, etc? [/ QUOTE ] Shut up, punk.... OK..I'm done....

June 30th, 2004, 08:54	#3
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] ...the Pan Am forum? I mean, sheesh, this forum is like the "south-central LA" of the JC website, needing constant "stepped up police patrols" as a result of the fights here. People, can we converse w/o name calling, personal attacks, etc? [/ QUOTE ] Shut up, punk.... OK..I'm done.... [/ QUOTE ] Darn smack-talking NCOs........ .......if I didn't need them to keep JC-Air America in line.......

June 30th, 2004, 11:03	#4
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,928 Blog Entries: 1	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... I have NO idea MikeD! And yes, this is the Bronx of the forums! I even called last summer and said that PA would greatly benefit by sending someone over to clear up some of the issues, but they (like some others) shy away from doing such.

June 30th, 2004, 15:47	#5
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... Doug/Mike, I sincerely apologize to you for the direction that this forum has taken. When I first joined JC, I thought this would be a great place to discuss issues that revolve around flight training, as well as a place to support our fellow pilots. I never thought that the people, including myself (I will not point fingers) that surf this forum would get so beligerent with each other. I am sure that this isn't the direction that you expected either. Anyway, you have my commitment that I will do my best to keep this forum a positive place for any aspiring pilot get accurate information. I will emphathize with those that haven't had such a positive experience in the past w/ Pan Am, and honestly answer any questions that come my way without stooping to levels seen in the past in this forum. Again, my sincere apology. LC

June 30th, 2004, 18:30	#6
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,928 Blog Entries: 1	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... No real need to specifically apologize, but thanks anyhoo. I'm just curious as to if there is such a high level of complaints, how many of those complaintants have filed with the Better Business Bureau -- at least there they'll ask for specifics and the organization will have a chance to either deny, clarify, or rectify the situation. I'm not trying to cut them any slack, just trying to figure out why no one's taken the bull by the proverbial 'horns' and done something about their issues instead of hitting the 'post' button here on jetcareers.

June 30th, 2004, 19:42	#7
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... Most likely because this is an anonymous way to vent frustrations. It is pretty easy to complain, point fingers, and blame others, when there are no consequences to what you say on a forum such as this.

June 30th, 2004, 22:35	#8
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] ...the Pan Am forum? I mean, sheesh, this forum is like the "south-central LA" of the JC website, needing constant "stepped up police patrols" as a result of the fights here. People, can we converse w/o name calling, personal attacks, etc? [/ QUOTE ] Shut up, punk.... OK..I'm done.... [/ QUOTE ] Darn smack-talking NCOs........ .......if I didn't need them to keep JC-Air America in line....... [/ QUOTE ] We're good for something!!

July 1st, 2004, 09:53	#9
BFLYINGHIGH Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 58	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... I have recently left Pan Am for certain reasons. I am somewhat bitter, but will try to remain calm while I write this. When left there was some unresolved money issues. I asked threm politely to refund them. They wouldn't. When I asked them it was in the schools best interest to at least meet me halfway. They said no. When I mentioned that I would report them to the BBB I was threatend. I was told " it is a small industry you don't want to burn bridges" Kind of sounds like a threat to me. So I will gladly tell the whole story once I am sure I am safe in my career. No it wasn't a large amount of money, but it is the principal of the whole thing. Great way for a so called proffesional school to talk to a former student. I only wish I would have found this web site before attending Pan AM. I have attended 2 other schools and had no problems with either of them so I do have good comparison. So in a long round about way there is the answer to you question DOUG. I would like to report them , but not at the risk of jeopardizing my career. It sucks because I just want people to be able to know the facts when they make a choice. If anyone whants to know the full story feel fre to PM me. Thanks.

July 1st, 2004, 10:53	#10
Kristie Big Chief's Woman Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Posts: 19,294 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... Isn't there a way to report them anonymously...ie: the BBB would get your name, but the school would not?

July 1st, 2004, 17:59	#11
BFLYINGHIGH Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 58	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... Well if I give the specifics I am afraid Pan Am would figure it out. I am looking into options.

July 1st, 2004, 21:53	#12
rausda27 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,275	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... I had a mortgage company based out of VA try to add 1.5% on the loan at closing (points). After the closing I informed them that I was reporting them to the BBB and the State Attorney Generals office as they were doing business in the state of Florida. Needless to say I received a phone call form the VP informing me that it was a mistake and they would be issuing a refund and there was no need to write any letters. THis may be an option. As far as them threatening your career, I wouldn't worry about it. There arent any bridges left to burn, apparrently MAVMB already burned them all

July 2nd, 2004, 00:02	#13
Lima_Charlie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 563	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... [ QUOTE ] I have recently left Pan Am for certain reasons. I am somewhat bitter, but will try to remain calm while I write this. When left there was some unresolved money issues. I asked threm politely to refund them. They wouldn't. When I asked them it was in the schools best interest to at least meet me halfway. They said no. When I mentioned that I would report them to the BBB I was threatend. I was told " it is a small industry you don't want to burn bridges" Kind of sounds like a threat to me. So I will gladly tell the whole story once I am sure I am safe in my career. No it wasn't a large amount of money, but it is the principal of the whole thing. Great way for a so called proffesional school to talk to a former student. I only wish I would have found this web site before attending Pan AM. I have attended 2 other schools and had no problems with either of them so I do have good comparison. So in a long round about way there is the answer to you question DOUG. I would like to report them , but not at the risk of jeopardizing my career. It sucks because I just want people to be able to know the facts when they make a choice. If anyone whants to know the full story feel fre to PM me. Thanks. [/ QUOTE ] Which campus did you go to?? I am hoping that it wasn't DVT, as I know some of the people on the administration end, and can't imagine them being so unhelpful!!! I personally haven't had any problems, but then again I am still a current student. I have no idea how things would change if I decided to part w/ Pan Am.

July 7th, 2004, 22:17	#14
Instrument_Proficient Newbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Space Station Posts: 19	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... There is no way they (Pan-Scam) can ruin your career in any way by you reporting them to the BBB. IF, you do not report them soon, then your report will be useless in the future. Do it now. This school not only deserves a class action lawsuit by the students, but to be shut down for poor business practices. They are no better than ATA in my opinion. IP

July 8th, 2004, 09:18	#15
BFLYINGHIGH Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 58	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... I am afraid that if I report them and someone calls the school about my training they could give me bad reference. I know that is illegal, but how would I know what was said. I still plan on reporting them. Especially after being threatend. I think that burns me more than anything else that happened. Including losing the money. There time is comming.

July 8th, 2004, 13:43	#16
project7 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 430	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... Don't worry about getting a bad reference from pan am. A reference from them wouldn't (shouldn't) be accepted from them anyway because you paid them to be there. If you're going to work as a flight instructor, the school you apply to work at will evaluate your skills on their own. Then if you are going to apply to an airline later on, they will want a reference from the flight school where you worked, not where you trained.

July 8th, 2004, 20:45	#17
BFLYINGHIGH Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 58	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... Thank you! That helps put me at ease a little.

July 9th, 2004, 13:05	#18
TheFlyingTurkey Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 2,987	Re: What the hell is wrong with.... Before all you guys get together and "close the doors" at Pan Am, let me get a job at an airline first.

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