Pilot VS. Relationships

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Very well said


Don't marry someone who is co-dependent & clingy and wants "her man" home everynight.

Lots of jobs have whacked schedules and/or require a lot of travel. The guy who used to live across the street from us was in regional sales, and he was gone just as much as Bill is. (Including overnights, he was on the road 2-5 days/nights every week.) Pilots do not have sole rights to claim they have screwy schedules! Marriage is about the people involved, not a job someone does.

Good points, Amber. I wanted to elaborate further...I've got the stripes from a first marriage and at least one good friend on the rocks and trying to determine what to do in their marriage...

If you're a career changer (which the OP isn't, but it bears mentioning) the new types of stresses that come with the new job are going to be difficult for the best couples. It's a matter of how you deal with them. And as long as you're up front about the realities of things, and you're honest with each other about what you need, and what you can provide, then no one can say they were cheated, y'know?

A very very wise woman (okay, my Mom) once told me that the paths of a married couple resemble a set of waving parallel lines that look like an hourglass...at some point in life, the lines are very close together and at other points, they're further apart. It's what you do with those times that define you as a couple.

One other point - the eyes that you look at commitment with at 18-19 years old are going to be different from the eyes you look at the same commitment with at 25-30 years old, and again at 35, your perspective will change. I imagine it will change at 40-50 as well, but I'm only 35. The point being it's a moving target, per se, and you have to adapt with your priorities in mind.

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

I read once that love is great and you can have it however you want it- with or without marriage. Unless you're planning on having children, there's no point to getting married, really.

Children don't require marriage by your logic. Just love. I suppose you can thwart one social convention and not the other, but you don't have to.

I think the term that secures this is 'pre-nup'.

Depends on whether or not my next wife has more assets than I do.

Romantic, crazy notions about love lasting forever are just bunk. Prepare your lives so you don't have to worry about an out and you're set.

As cynical as this is, I believe the above to a degree, with a twist. I think that love can and does last forever, but compatibility, boredom and greed get in the way.

I've toyed with the concept of having marriages on a 5-7 year "Renewal" plan with a 90-day contract window. At the end of the 5-7 years, the couple has 90 days to evaluate whether or not they want to renew the contract. If they do, great, if not, they move into a no-fault status where they can part amicably. Both parties agree, sign, and prep emotionally for it.

[Boris Badenov]

Originally Posted by killbilly

As cynical as this is, I believe the above to a degree, with a twist. I think that love can and does last forever, but compatibility, boredom and greed get in the way.

I also believe it to a degree. I would suggest, however, that if you're not going for the gusto, you are destined to fail. That is to say make the stupid, inexplicable promises, regret them at some point or another, etc. But if you don't at least make them and mean it at the time, you're already eroding the ground from which you will flight to keep the thing alive when things go pear shaped. Which they will. No, seriously, they will.

I've toyed with the concept of having marriages on a 5-7 year "Renewal" plan with a 90-day contract window. At the end of the 5-7 years, the couple has 90 days to evaluate whether or not they want to renew the contract. If they do, great, if not, they move into a no-fault status where they can part amicably. Both parties agree, sign, and prep emotionally for it.

Now you're just ripping off Heinlein!

Personally, I think the notion of state-sanctioned marriage is ludicrous on its face. What possible justifiable and useful claim does the polity have on where you put your junk? That said, when someone is dumb enough to marry me (and I'm dumb enough to want to marry them), I plan to go in kamikaze style..."failure is not an option", etc. At the very least, then you know it didn't fail just because you weren't trying hard enough.

[Qgar]

Originally Posted by milleR

As a far more experienced aviator once told me; you get married once for love, twice for sex, and three times for companionship.

Interesting take on marriage. I've always heard the first time you marry for love, the second time for money. I think your example is actually more accurate!

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by killbilly

As cynical as this is, I believe the above to a degree, with a twist. I think that love can and does last forever, but compatibility, boredom and greed get in the way.

I've toyed with the concept of having marriages on a 5-7 year "Renewal" plan with a 90-day contract window. At the end of the 5-7 years, the couple has 90 days to evaluate whether or not they want to renew the contract. If they do, great, if not, they move into a no-fault status where they can part amicably. Both parties agree, sign, and prep emotionally for it.

Perhaps love does in fact last forever, but the other things in life complicate them beyond repair.

I know the last woman that I was in love with still has my heart to some small degree. I've been known to say that 'once loved is always loved'.

Perhaps I did not state things clearly- sometimes love just ain't enough. Ya dig?

I agree with your term marriage idea. Nice concept. Prenegotiated terms for separation are always a good idea. Ya see, that's the problem. Love and marriage are an emotional, spiritual event. Society, however, has everyone thinking that it's about joint property rights and tax breaks. That's business. Keep your higher finance out of my romance. If a woman loves me, it doesn't matter if I'm Bill Gates.. er.. or.. a regional airline FO. Ha. If my current path resembles the latter more than the former and that seriously bothers her, love has nothing to do with it.

She can take her shovel and leave- no gold to dig for here.

You sound like Heinlein, you know. Term contract marriages and all that.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by Boris Badenov

Now you're just ripping off Heinlein!

Personally, I think the notion of state-sanctioned marriage is ludicrous on its face. What possible justifiable and useful claim does the polity have on where you put your junk? That said, when someone is dumb enough to marry me (and I'm dumb enough to want to marry them), I plan to go in kamikaze style..."failure is not an option", etc. At the very least, then you know it didn't fail just because you weren't trying hard enough.

Dude, you rule.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

Perhaps love does in fact last forever, but the other things in life complicate them beyond repair.

I know the last woman that I was in love with still has my heart to some small degree. I've been known to say that 'once loved is always loved'.

Perhaps I did not state things clearly- sometimes love just ain't enough. Ya dig?

I agree with your term marriage idea. Nice concept. Prenegotiated terms for separation are always a good idea. Ya see, that's the problem. Love and marriage are an emotional, spiritual event. Society, however, has everyone thinking that it's about joint property rights and tax breaks. That's business. Keep your higher finance out of my romance. If a woman loves me, it doesn't matter if I'm Bill Gates.. er.. or.. a regional airline FO. Ha. If my current path resembles the latter more than the former and that seriously bothers her, love has nothing to do with it.

She can take her shovel and leave- no gold to dig for here.

You sound like Heinlein, you know. Term contract marriages and all that.

Lennon told us that all we need us love, but decades later Trent Reznor revealed the truth in that love is not enough.

Love is, sadly, not enough, but without it life seems pretty useless.

[Bluto]

Originally Posted by Qgar

Interesting take on marriage. I've always heard the first time you marry for love, the second time for money. I think your example is actually more accurate!

I think you two are saying the exact same thing. It's just he's saying it from the male perspective (sex). While yours is from the female (money).

[N8081G]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

How old are you, 16? You should be working on trying desperatly to get laid, not worry about a marriage you may or may not have in another decade!

I mean for reals, good job with thinking ahead, but try not to think TOO far ahead.

lol at you telling a 16 year old kid to try to get laid.

Anyways, to the original poster, i am not married so i can't say, nor am i an airline pilot as well. That is a double whammy and you are probably wondering why i am polluting your thread.

However, NEVER give up your dream and goals of being a pilot because of marriage. Do not let anyone influence you and stray you away from your goals. I believe that in order to be happy, you have to be contented in what you do. There are lots of happy, single pilots out there!

[Cessna414JJB]

..."failure is not an option", etc. At the very least, then you know it didn't fail just because you weren't trying hard enough.

I viewed marriage as the ultimate commitment. It is in a way. If not for religious reasons then it should be a bond between two people that is based on more than temporary excitement and sexual intensity. However, the level of commitment people are willing (sometimes I wonder if they are intellectually unable) to sign up for has changed a lot. I spent my years between 19 and 27 in a "unable to get married" state, my buddies told and kept telling me that the right woman for me would be nowhere close and my lifestyle would indicate that she'd have to be a pilot too. I ignored them all! People have very crooked value sets. I was blind to this fact during a 5 year marriage. I was sure she was on my side. She wasn't. Suddenly I was no longer good enough. Instead of communication (or obvious warning signs) things went their way until it was impossible to repair. Aviation introduced the need to provide stability and positive guidance (to me, suddenly) from my other half, and that was not what she had signed up for.

For a large part of my life I enjoyed flying everything and everywhere I could. I still do. But flights end and there is a terrible emptyness. I had become unable to do anything else and my life rotated about aviation. At age 34 almost of my classmates have kids - dogs and a life. I can tell people that I used to own a plane or two... that I used to be a big fart guru here and there. Great!!! Recently (through a friends 3 year old Grandson) I notice how awefully cool kids can be. Geeez? Me and kids...? Mhhuuhuwaaaaah ........... Uuuuuups! What was that?

Bummer at first - but as I find out recently (), a good thing. It has opened me up quite a bit, and I came to realize that I want more. I realized the fact that things don't (CANT) work out as planned all the time (and they really used to for me) with lots of money, big cars and the lifestyle to boot, but being a pure Groundhog didn't swing it for me. So I aimed at flying and pushed the TOTAL reset button again after a long break from trying to step in my Grandfathers footsteps. Doing so destroyed a large part of my life. But it opened up other doors. Doors I have to go through. I don't know why, but I still believe the right woman is out there. We have only this one shot at life.

[ChasenSFO]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

How old are you, 16? You should be working on trying desperatly to get laid, not worry about a marriage you may or may not have in another decade!

I'll drink to that!...if you're down for buying beer for an 18 year old.

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by N8081G

There are lots of happy, single pilots out there!

There are lots of happy, married pilots out there too.

[NotCoolEnufToFly]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Love is, sadly, not enough, but without it life seems pretty useless.

Thats pretty much exactly how I feel about it! Good stuff

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

Perhaps love does in fact last forever, but the other things in life complicate them beyond repair.

I know the last woman that I was in love with still has my heart to some small degree. I've been known to say that 'once loved is always loved'.

Perhaps I did not state things clearly- sometimes love just ain't enough. Ya dig?

This, precisely, is the point, I think.

I agree with your term marriage idea. Nice concept. Prenegotiated terms for separation are always a good idea. Ya see, that's the problem. Love and marriage are an emotional, spiritual event. Society, however, has everyone thinking that it's about joint property rights and tax breaks.

You sound like Heinlein, you know. Term contract marriages and all that.

You're right - love and marriage ARE emotional, spiritual events. But after the last of the rice has been thrown and the cake has been eaten and the glow dies down, you have the day to day reality to work with. It's cliche'd to say that it takes work, but you have to realize that the work involved shouldn't feel like drudgery.

Too many people get married for a lot of the wrong reasons which seem like very good reasons at the time. I am not only speaking from personal experience - I've watched other people go through it time and again up to, and including, my own parents. People are weak, they make mistakes. Marriage doesn't make them into infallible superhumans. It's a hell of a lot harder than dating.

I would argue that the idea of having a bailout option works in favor of the marriage. No one says you have to take it. If two people want to stay in it and they are happy together, or not as happy as they want to be but optimistic about their future, they don't have to bailout. Having a bailout option and choosing to stay is, in my opinion, more noble, than staying trapped in something you don't want to be in and having an affair to get what you need because your spouse is unwilling or unable to provide it. It's a practical situation, I guess.

Dude...I swear, I was not ripping off Heinlein. I didn't know.

There is another sci-fi writer named Peter F. Hamilton, who floated a similar concept in a book series, and I thought it was interesting, although modified to suit my tastes. So it was HAMILTON who ripped off Heinlein. It should be noted that in his case, it was a natural evolution of characters who were living indefinitely through rejuvenation procedures. Our psychology isn't wired for total monogamy for centuries on end, thus the construct he presented.

I was ripping off Hamilton.

[Qgar]

Originally Posted by Bluto

I think you two are saying the exact same thing. It's just he's saying it from the male perspective (sex). While yours is from the female (money).

How little you know me, dear......

[calcapt]

My observation has been that the airline pilot lifestyle (and others like it), tend to strengthen good marriages or finish off bad ones.

[Cessna414JJB]

Originally Posted by calcapt

My observation has been that the airline pilot lifestyle (and others like it), tend to strengthen good marriages or finish off bad ones.

LOL - thats kind of a KISS way of looking at it.

[surreal1221]

Don't worry. . .the relationship will work. . .

You'll get furloughed and be able to spend a boat load of time with your family.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by calcapt

My observation has been that the airline pilot lifestyle (and others like it), tend to strengthen good marriages or finish off bad ones.

Hard to top calcapt on this response.

I've said it before but for me I enjoy missing my wife in a weird way. We find it healthy. When I'm home we do almost everything together when her schedule permits but when I'm gone we are both independent people who have our own careers and activities outside of work that don't necessarily involve each other. Put plainly, I'm sure my wife probably enjoys a few days of space when I'm gone. I'd be lying if I said that I don't sometimes enjoy it. We both get sick of "the road" at times but that's the life we've chosen and it's worked well up to this point. It's all we've ever known since I literally shipped off to IAH for training 7 days after saying "I do."

Having a spouse with an independent streak is the key in my opinion, much like MQAAord already stated. Getting married is the best decision I've ever made.

[future pilot]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Don't worry. . .the relationship will work. . .

You'll get furloughed and be able to spend a boat load of time with your family.

Thanks guys for all the replies!

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by future pilot

Thanks guys for all the replies!

While I'm sure a 4 and 3 airline schedule can be challenging, think about it this way. There are married people in our armed forces deploying for 18 months, home for 6-12 months, and redeploying for 18 months. While the divorce rates between civilian and military are calculated in different ways, they really aren't that different.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Ian J

While I'm sure a 4 and 3 airline schedule can be challenging, think about it this way. There are married people in our armed forces deploying for 18 months, home for 6-12 months, and redeploying for 18 months. While the divorce rates between civilian and military are calculated in different ways, they really aren't that different.

Jodie got cha girl an gone!

[juxtapilot]

Originally Posted by future pilot

Well as some of you know i despiratley want to become an airline pilot. This weekend although i was in my cousins wedding. Having fun at the reception last night. Everyone drinking, (Getting a little drunk). And talking with a bunch of chicks with my cousins. Then today we had the gift opening. just a few hours ago we were all talking in the backyard about the honeymoon.

Anyways im just thinking to myself. When i whant to get married, I whant to be able to see my wife. You know? Well enough of that stuff to my question. As a pilot do relationships work out as well? Or do they turn out the same? Or worse where you end up getting a devorce? Let me know from your expirences or what you think! thanks!!

Man, ur too young to be worrying about this stuff... give urself 5 or more years, then start thinking about it...

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

There are lots of happy, married pilots out there too.

Marriages are not good, nor are they bad, because one is a pilot. It is never the circumstances, it is how people handle the circumstances together no matter whether good or bad. Pilot, fireman, policeman, army grunt, computer programmer, accountant, financial advisor, salesman, doctor, lawyer....all have pluses and minuses, yet none of those things REALLY matter in making a relationship work. Relationships work only when both people want them to work.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Lennon told us that all we need us love, but decades later Trent Reznor revealed the truth in that love is not enough.

Love is, sadly, not enough, but without it life seems pretty useless.

Aye. Life certainly seems so lackluster when you consider it without love.

I'm all for love, really. Just a little cynical about marriage. I'm a little cynical about a lot of things, lately.