Why...

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Do women go to college get multiple degrees, then give up their careers to be housewives, A housewife???

I don't get it.

My cousin is pregnant with her and her husbands first child, and this is her last week working at her firm,she's a social worker. She has two undergrad degrees in child psychology and social work, and her masters in both.

She was on the fast track at her job to management, and she gives it up! They told her that after maternity leave she could work PT, even from home.

She said no, and gave it all up.

Her husband a partner in a decent size SF law firm does make really good money. They decided (together) that they want 2-3 kids and that he would be the bread winner, and she the housewife.

With her level of education time and money spent in school, her giving it all up to be housewife is a waste IMO. I'm not saying that being a housewife is bad, she could worked in her field and been a mother and had it all. Or geez, at least worked part time.

I've properly donned my flame suit so fire way ladies!

[MQAAord]

Maybe she wants to give her kids the best upbrining possible, and feels that being with them full-time is not giving up anything, rather gaining so much more.

I "gave up" my career too. You know what? Work will still be there later. My kids are more important right now.

Some women go back to work, some take time off to spend with their kids. EITHER is fine! But I hate when people think I've "given up" something or that I'm "wasting" myself being with the kids.

[desertdog71]

Max, your cousin, Amber, and my wife all have something in common. They have "The most important job in the world"

That is raising our children. I don't see it as she gave up anything. She is gaining a family and the role of mother. These are likely to be much more satisfying to her than her career.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Maybe she wants to give her kids the best upbrining possible, and feels that being with them full-time is not giving up anything, rather gaining so much more.

I "gave up" my career too. You know what? Work will still be there later. My kids are more important right now.

Some women go back to work, some take time off to spend with their kids. EITHER is fine! But I hate when people think I've "given up" something or that I'm "wasting" myself being with the kids.

Damn...I wanted to beat you to posting.

Let me say this, IMO your situation is different. You can't be a mother of young children and be a flight attendant, more especially when your husband is an airline pilot.

Furthermore you had to leave your other job because of babysitting issues.

So I can totally respect why you're a fulltime housewife.

In her situation she could have worked PT from home, only goin' into the office for meetings. Her husbands family isn't too far from their home, they could watch the kid.

Lastly, they both don't seem to like the idea of daycare, and want the child to be watched, educated at home by my cousin, until grade school age.

They're also talking about her not going back to work when the kids are gradeschool age. So that someone is there when they get out of school, to help them with homework etc. Guess they're not too fond of the whole latch key kid thing.

Okay, but does she have to do that 36 or 54 yrs. depending on how many children she has?

Maybe I can't understand it because I grew up with a mother who had 4 kids. A career and got also got two undergrad degrees, two masters and a PH.d.

She still had the best of both worlds as a teacher (her career) and a mother.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by desertdog71

Max, your cousin, Amber, and my wife all have something in common. They have "The most important job in the world"

That is raising our children. I don't see it as she gave up anything. She is gaining a family and the role of mother. These are likely to be much more satisfying to her than her career.

Well, dunno maybe it's because I'ma dude. But a career to me is something uniquely mine not, my spouses or my childrens.An identity so to speak outside of being a father or a husband. Something that you work hard and sacrifice for, if *I* had to give that up to be a stay at home dad...yes to me I'd feel like all I did to educate myself, get that promotion at work and sucess in my career would be all for not.

I'm saying this as me, my opinion as Matthew having to be as stay at home father, not equating it to mothers who leave their jobs to stay at home.

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Well, dunno maybe it's because I'ma dude. But a career to me is something uniquely mine not, my spouses or my childrens.An identity so to speak outside of being a father or a husband. Something that you work hard and sacrifice for, if *I* had to give that up to be a stay at home dad...yes to me I'd feel like all I did to educate myself, get that promotion at work and sucess in my career would be all for not.

I'm saying this as me, my opinion as Matthew having to be as stay at home father, not equating it to mothers who leave their jobs to stay at home.

I can't relate to it either, also probably because I am a guy. This is how my wife feels though, and she feels very fulfilled being a mom and a wife. (at least that is what she says)

[pedro]

My girlfriend is doing the same thing. She chose to stay home with the baby and she already has her bachelors degree(at 23) She didn't get to start a career yet (because of our joyful surprise) but now shes talking about staying home for a few years. At first I thought it was crazy for her to be out of work for so long, but my son is getting way better attention than he would at ANY daycare. If you have ever been to one, daycare can be scary. I just hope she starts working again before I finish my training!

[MQAAord]

Not everybody wants the same things out of life, Max. It's not "all about me" right now. I do not want to return to life as a line F/A. I have career expectations, I will someday be a cabin safety inspector for the FAA. But, my careers goals will wait until the kids are older. I don't feel the need to "have it all", because I don't think I would give enough attention to either my work or my kids if I had to divide myself. Some people can, but I do not think I can.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Do women go to college get multiple degrees, then give up their careers to be housewives, A housewife???

I don't get it.

My cousin is pregnant with her and her husbands first child, and this is her last week working at her firm,she's a social worker. She has two undergrad degrees in child psychology and social work, and her masters in both.

She was on the fast track at her job to management, and she gives it up! They told her that after maternity leave she could work PT, even from home.

She said no, and gave it all up.

Her husband a partner in a decent size SF law firm does make really good money. They decided (together) that they want 2-3 kids and that he would be the bread winner, and she the housewife.

With her level of education time and money spent in school, her giving it all up to be housewife is a waste IMO. I'm not saying that being a housewife is bad, she could worked in her field and been a mother and had it all. Or geez, at least worked part time.

I've properly donned my flame suit so fire way ladies!

Well, who are you, or anyone to say what is a waste. Your opionion is just that, YOUR opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

You could delete the word 'woman' and place any one in there for that matter. But again, it is your opinion and in the grand scheme it really doesn't matter in regards to someone else's plan.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by JEP

Well, who are you, or anyone to say what is a waste. Your opionion is just that, YOUR opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

You could delete the word 'woman' and place any one in there for that matter. But again, it is your opinion and in the grand scheme it really doesn't matter in regards to someone else's plan.

Take a chill pill Jim. My first post was all opinion. I never stated anything as a matter of fact.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by pedex

My girlfriend is doing the same thing. She chose to stay home with the baby and she already has her bachelors degree(at 23) She didn't get to start a career yet (because of our joyful surprise) but now shes talking about staying home for a few years. At first I thought it was crazy for her to be out of work for so long, but my son is getting way better attention than he would at ANY daycare. If you have ever been to one, daycare can be scary. I just hope she starts working again before I finish my training!

Another thing is that if one takes time off of their career to be a parent, the work force could be totally different when and if they ever go back.

My other cousin just got her MBA from UT Austin. Now she is not looking to get preggers anytime soon, but to use her as an example. If she did give up her marketing career for a time while being a parent. The market place could change, and she'd be competing with younger men and women maybe fresh out of grad school. Employers sometimes seem to somewhat favor the younger fresh mind. In my other cousin Pam's situation she hasn't been working in her field for too long maybe 5 yrs.

I don't envison social work as super competitive as say marketing director. But still maybe to be out of the game for 8-10 years there would definitely be a learning curve, and she just might not fit in to the new think work force.

If I was a women who took time off to be a mother for an extended period of time, that would definitely be a strong concern of mine.

Hope that all made sense, typing fast on a 10 min. break.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Take a chill pill Jim. My first post was all opinion. I never stated anything as a matter of fact.

....And neither did I.

No Max, not today. I am just responding to your post which you were wise enough to know there would be an unfavorable response.

I know your post was your opinion and that all I was responding to. It is your opinion (which you are entitled to) and in grand scheme, your opinion doesn't matter to someone else's career/life plans.

BTW, aren't you at your new job? Be careful with that JC fix....

[Maximillian_Jenius]

[quote=JEP;658723
BTW, aren't you at your new job? Be careful with that JC fix.... [/quote]

Still at Honeywell till Friday. Start the new job Tuesday. The new job doesn't seem to have computers avail, so possibly, no JC at work!

[TheWife]

Daycare is generally (not always) risky, even long term providers have still been caught selling drugs, putting kids in front of the tv all day, running scams out of their daycare, they shake the babies, the kids get sick a lot more, I could go on and on. And for many people, it's more expensive than it's worth. If you make $500 a week, and daycare is $200 a week, and then you subtract gas, mileage (wear and tear on the car), the office wardrobe you have to keep up, eating out for lunch, and taxes, well that pretty much leaves you with nothing for all that time away from your kids and the risk you put them in.

Why doesn't she do it part time at home? Maybe she doesn't want to!!! Why does it matter so much to you? You didn't pay for her degree. It's smart for a stay-at-home mom to have a degree and work experience, so that should the husband get sick, lose his job, etc. she could go back to work easier if she HAD to. But kids require a LOT. It's not as easy as just put the kids in a corner while you do your part time work at home. You have to keep the kids away from the office stuff and hope they aren't running around screaming while you're on the phone with a client. Sometimes moms don't get a good night sleep, if they were up w/ a sick kid, or had too much to get done, and they don't want the stress of an outside responsibility in addidtion to maintaining the house and children.

The only time I'd be able to work part time at home is when the kids are asleep. Well, during nap time, I get the house picked up and get stuff for dinner started, and during their bedtime, I clean up after dinner and any other new messes, and pay the bills, do the laundry, etc. There really isn't a good time I could work at home, without neglecting regular household chores. And there are still so many things I never get to, like the kids journals and photo albums, making them quilts, decorating the house more, etc. I have enough on my plate, and I'm glad your cousin knows what she wants and I hope she doesn't feel guilty about it or like she owes anyone an explanation for it.

I COULD be making $50K about as an insurance agent still, but I don't WANT to. I don't want my kids in daycare, and I don't want to have a rough night of taking care of kids and then have to get up bright and early to deal with the general public. And I would never expect my family to be my daycare, they are all close by, but they are going through the same things I am, and even the people I trust the most in the family, still wouldn't raise my kids the way I want them to be raised.

I doubt I will ever go back to work unless something happens to my husband's ability to work. While the kids are in school it will be time to catch up on the projects I'm not able to get to now, and be able to put some more time into my own hobbies, and still be able to be here when they get home from school, and I also do a lot of volunteer work and would like to do more. Even once they are grown, and out of the house, I probably won't go back to work. I want to be available for grandkids, do even more volunteer work, and travel with my husband. I don't think any job could bring me the level of satisfaction I'll get from being a stay at home mom. Many look at that as laziness, that's fine. Other than some internet time for adult conversation, I'm never NOT working hard throughout the day, even while pregnant, so I'd invite anyone that sees it as being lazy, to come watch me for a day and see what I do. And then try to tell me that I could squeeze in some time for some part time work at home.

[kellwolf]

To people that don't have kids, working PT from home sounds like a great idea. Those of us with kids know it would be more work than actually going to the office. Imagine doing a teleconference from home only have "Mommy, lookee!" come from behind you b/c the kid drew on the wall with crayon while you were out of the room.

Like Michelle said, day cares are totally hit and miss. We got damn lucky with the one we found. Most of the good ones are so expensive, you actually MAKE money by not working. If my wife has a slow week at work, we only break even on day care. If she only works 3 days, we LOSE money. My family is nearby (as in 20 minutes away), but they can't just "watch the kid." My dad has had two stroke, my mom works 3 jobs and my brother is, well, not the most reliable sort. You can't always count on family to help, and sometimes the goodwill of their helping wears thin VERY, VERY quickly.

As soon as we can afford to not have two incomes, Nessa's probably quitting to be a stay at home mom, too.

[SeatClutcher]

Originally Posted by desertdog71

I can't relate to it either, also probably because I am a guy.

I can't relate to it either. I think it's more person-specific than it is gender-specific.

Max, there are men who stop working to take care of kids, too.

And there are couples all over the place who work part or full time while raising children.

So many choices, all of them being used.

[TheWife]

I can't relate to not wanting kids. But I don't think you have to relate to something, in order to respect it. (Not saying YOU weren't, just in general, ya know.)

[Qgar]

I respect people who don't want children a whole helluva lot more than people who have kids and treat them like they're an inconvenience -- or worse.

[TheWife]

Me too!

[Kristie]

i didn't give up on my job...my job gave up on me....

oh, i should make that a song!

[Doug Taylor]

Here's my sexist comment of the day.

The more women that accept scholarships for universities, stay active for a couple of years and then leave the job force may start a backlash from the various foundations that provide the scholarships.

If it becomes "too popular", then say "Scientific Future, LLC" may begin to prefer male applicants over female applicants because there might be a better ROI on a male scientist because he's got a higher probability to stay in the field.

It's probably going to make it harder on women that want to pursue higher education. It's a very slippery slope.

I know if I shelled out $100G's in aviation scholarships to a demographic of people that accepted the money, flew a couple years and then went on a 15 year sabatical, I'd be hard-pressed not to begin to discriminate towards those that have long term plans in their chosen profession.

[MQAAord]

But how do you know if a woman is going to go on "sabbatical" or not? How do you know she is going to have kids at all? Or if she even can? If the grant is given to a male, what's to say he's not going to lose his medical, decide he really can't deal with the lifestyle, or crashes a plane and kills himself?

There's too many "individual" variables to make that kind of generalization. Many, many women are choosing to not have kids at all nowdays. I applaud that, and say if you know you don't want kids, that's great! Kudos to you for knowing what you (don't) want, and tell everyone who asks when you're having kids that your uterus has a strange disease that will result in the birth of babies with 3 arms. That'll shut 'em up.

[Doug Taylor]

(rant on)

I completely agree and understand.

And this is my Bill Cosby moment:

I guess my perspective comes from being in a demographic where people think that time, effort and money is wasted on because for a period of time in our culture, we weren't expected to succeed in higher education and would bow out at the first hint of a challenge.

So, even as late as the mid-80's, I had a couple of situations where I've overheard angry parents mad because Darling Johnny couldn't get into AP Calculus because the class was full but "'that guy' who probably won't even get thru college" is taking up a seat.

I guess my point is fairly political.

We're all fighting for equal opportunity, but when granted said opportunity we've got to prove that the struggle was worth it. Just like my cousins that don't vote. Ancestors rolling over in their graves over that one!

(/rant off)

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Maybe I'm looking at this as a man (checks pants, yea I'm a dude!) But I see myself as masculine, a leader and a provider.

If I was in a relationship, again obviously with a man, it wouldn't be me taking time off work, or quiting to stay home to watch the kids. No way, not gonna happen!!!

Now being that I'm masculine my partner would obviously be a good mix of masculinity and effeminity (sp). Or in laymens terms the women of the relationship since society says he is because he is a receiver.

So he should stay home with the kids not me, not me...ducks and runs for cover.

My point with my cousin is that she went to school for 6-8 years to acheive all these degrees of higher learning, and now will be a housewife for probably the rest of her days. I guess that she can gaze at her many accomplishment hanging on the wall in her study from time to time with a sense of pride.

Anyone see that movie Mona Lisa's smile with Julia Roberts. If not it's about Wellesley College, which was a college (back in the day) that was really nothing more than a finishing school. The ladies there could maybe be pre-law, but as Julia said in the moive, "what's the point of all that time, effort and work, when tradition states after college you marry and become a housewife for the rest of your days."

That's what I feel about someone with her level of education placing the career on hold, and being a housewife the rest of her days. I'm not saying don't take maternity leave or maybe a year or two off. I'm saying if it was my spouse, a female for this scenario, I'd wish them to go back to work eventually and stay up on what's new in their career field.

You all make good points about daycare and wanting to spend time with said children.

This might be a cop out, but I grew up with a strong, focused, type A mother that wouldn't let anything stop her from succeeding. Not my good for nothing father, and not the fact that she had 4 kids. She was what shaped my thinking on this topic.

I'm not saying a career women shouldn't give up her job to be a mother, and I'm not saying a housewife has to go back to work when the children are school aged. Both of those are personal decsions between her and her mate.

My opinion is just one of general not understanding. Again it could be the male provider in me, or the fact that I understand all that having a successful career means to someone. Again that being something uniquely their own a life outside of the home, of being a father, husband etc.

Hope this all made sense, I'm in enough #### already from the good lady folks of this site. And I'm long over due for a good long nap!

[pedro]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

There's too many "individual" variables to make that kind of generalization.

I think that pretty much hits it right on. Everyones situation is too unique. Max's opinion isn't bad though, especially when considering the amount of time taken off before jumping back into the workforce. Kinda like keeping current on your ratings.

When a baby comes (planned or unplanned) there is definetly a choice to make. I personally think that it's best that the mother stay home with the baby because there is definatly a special connection between baby and momma. In my situation, she stayed home and I got a second job and that works for US. it could be different for everyone though.