dealing with an addict family member

triple7 · April 21st, 2007, 11:54

So, I usually dont like to air out dirty laundry on an online forum. But I dont know where else to turn to. Today is kinda the bottom of the barrel...end of the line, so to speak. My brother, 29, has been an alcholic drug abuser since he was in HS. 2 years ago he got his girlfriend pregnant and they had a beautiful little boy. I love that kid alot. We thought the little guy was sent to help fix my brother, and he did for a while. My bro went into rehab, he got a job, tried to make things work. We all supported him with love, money, and faith. We gave him every benefit of the doubt. My brother was even responsible for my major reinjury of my pectoral major tear. he opened my incision, blood everywhere, huge scene......He has yet to apologize. anyhow, I guess the purpose of my post is to 1)vent and 2) ask for advice and support. Thursday he had a huge blowup with his gf. He left the house and disapeared for 36 hours. He didnt go to work Friday, and showed up at their place last night around 2 am. He had emptied their checking account, and was actually 500 overdrawn. He was making zero sense...totally wakced out on the drugs. And he told his gf that he owed 500$ to some drug dealer or he was dead. Does he really owe 500, or does he need 500 more to buy more drugs. you see where the non-trust is. We dont believe a word he says. So, he went to work today an hour and a half late, which tells us he prob doesnthave a job anymore. And his gf sits at home with no way to pay the bills that are due in a week or so. My parents help support her and the baby to some extent, but there has to be a stop to the madness.

I am not sure what is going to happen in the next few days, but I can tell you that I am in a tight spot in my life as well, and I am at a loss as what I should do. Do I say something to him? Do I sit back and let my parents deal with this? Seriously, I am just finishing up my IOE, and have my own life to deal with. Do I just sit and support my folks while they deal, or do I go and take matters into my own hands. My biggest fear is that he will end up dead, in jail, or end up killing someone else.

you guys are a pretty sensible bunch, with alot of life experience. I value and respect alot of what people say on here, and was hoping maybe someone could shed some light on this for me.

Thanks all.

Andrew_VT · April 21st, 2007, 15:22

There are no concrete (and especially easy) answers to any of that. I wouldn't even know where to begin, but it's definitely something I'm going to be thinking about. I hope everything turns out alright.

Andrew_VT · April 21st, 2007, 15:34

I just had a thought. While before this advice can even be applied he would have to come back down to earth a little bit (rehab again or similar), it will matter after. I think alot of his losing battle with drugs/alcohol could be traced to his job. Alot of lower end (blue collar) jobs are embedded in a drug/alcohol culture. If you work at an auto-shop, going out after work and getting wasted is probably talked about more than Nascar. Factory employees I'm familiar with make a routine of downing a 40 on their lunch break. Management cant fire everybody because $10/hr labor is hard to find, so instead they respond by making their job simplier so they cant screw stuff up even if they are drunk. This repetitve, brainless work only encourages drug abuse even more.

I would recommend an entirely different job for your brother when he is capable. A job where he is gone alot and exposed to new enviroments, and most importantly won't be encouraged to drink afterwards by co-workers.

Now...what kind of entry-level job would accomplish this? I have no idea!

NotCoolEnufToFly · April 21st, 2007, 15:40

Wow... I'm sorry that you are going through that. I can understand quite a bit of what you are going through. My brother has been addicted to crystal meth for a long time now and he and his wife are both serving a 10yr sentence for manufacturing, amoung other things. They have two little girls that we absolutely adore. My mother is a fabulous person and I adore her but she is very passive and was not able to deal with my brother very well when he was doped up. I, as a teenager, kicked him out many times. Most of the time he would get mad and bust a tv before he left or even bust me in the mouth, and then I would have him arrested. I love my brother. God only knows why, but I do. All I have to say, is don't be afraid of him going to prison, sometimes that the safest place for them and everyone they affect. I thank God everyday that my brother and his wife didn't get to keep my neices. I don't know that they would be the same happy, healthy, beautiful little girls that they are today had that been the case. And I also think my brother may actually be coming around after being there 5yrs and maybe he'll chage. Who knows? Only time will tell. My only advice is do not enable him, but continue to love him!

tprops4me · April 21st, 2007, 17:01

Triple7,
I have lost several members of my family over the past several years to this very thing. I wish I could tell you what the fix is, but I cannot. The only thing I have found out is that these things do not fix themselves. My brother was following in the family footsteps, but he got lucky. Me and my family refused to let him go down the same way. It was a long hard road, but in the end it took him finding a passion to pull him out of it. He goes through now with our support as well as support groups. The whole tough love concept. It is cheesy, but it works. I wish you the best of luck, and remember, this will not fix itsself.

triple7 · April 21st, 2007, 18:06

Thanks guys. He was working at an HVAC supply company, and yeah, the guys he worked with were bad news. I dont know what his drug of choice is but i am guessing coke or maybe some sort of meth. Really sad because I fear he has done some really irreversible damage to his brain. Even if he comes back down to earth he will never be the same person we knew growing up. I am going to just sit back, pray, and support my parents in whatever they decide to do. When I see something I can do to help the situation I will step up, but until then.......Drugs are such and evil thing. They have destroyed so many lives, and I hope its not too late for my brother. Thanks for the words of advice. He is a big hoops fan, and was reffing high school. We thought that was his passion and would help to keep him out of trouble. Oh well. Ill keep you all posted.

S.T.Aviator · April 21st, 2007, 22:04

Hey triple7. I feel your pain bro. I have a friend hooked on coke and it is a real frustration trying to figure out how to help him, but at the end of the day it is his battle and his alone. Nothing that anyone else says or does can help your brother. The best thing that my friend has done is to move to a new city and surround himself with positive sober people. Don't give up and stay positive, he will find his path.

mojo6911 · April 22nd, 2007, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.T.Aviator

but at the end of the day it is his battle and his alone. Nothing that anyone else says or does can help your brother. The best thing that my friend has done is to move to a new city and surround himself with positive sober people. Don't give up and stay positive, he will find his path.

This is true. They have to want it themselves, or it will never stick.

SkyDreamer · April 22nd, 2007, 01:25

Tripe 7 - I am so sorry to hear about your family's struggles regarding your brother. As you can see from the responses, this is a pervasive issue that affects more people than we would care to acknowledge (especially the epidemic with Meth). I have seen this from the perspective of a Ph.D. Marriage and Family Therapist (I keep my MI license current but would much rather fly), and as a Police Officer. The fact that he would risk his family and a precious 2 year old child shows that this is a problem bigger than he is. I would agree with the posters who share your experience - along with the standard rehab/12-Steps, the "tough love" approach is necessary, if not for him, then at least for the sake of his child, and the rest of the family. Don't mean to "preach" (I certainly have not been in your shoes and would not envy you) but the things your parents identify as "support" (providing money, etc.)may ultimately prolong his behavior. He most likely needs to see/feel/realize that consequences come with his choices and jail/losing his freedom may be something he needs (not that I think our legal system is the best place to rehabilitate drug/alcohol addicts - it may even exacerbate the issue in many cases).

I would encourage you and your parents and anyone else in the "circle of influence" to focus your energy and efforts on what is best for your 2 year old niece and the girlfriend (but be careful of supporting her in a way where she turns around and gives your borther money/stuff, etc, or where he can continue to take advantage of her and your family's generosity). This is such a struggle - to love someone so much and yet to realize that the best way to help seems/feels like turning your back on them. Thanks for sharing your struggle on the forum - I am sure you have helped others by doing so. I hope you experience our suppport and our empathy, and we will pray for a "successful" outcome. Congratulations on IOE by the way - hope this doesn't interfere too much with things, and wish you a brilliant career.

Maximillian_Jenius · April 22nd, 2007, 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple7

Thanks guys. He was working at an HVAC supply company, and yeah, the guys he worked with were bad news. I dont know what his drug of choice is but i am guessing coke or maybe some sort of meth. Really sad because I fear he has done some really irreversible damage to his brain. Even if he comes back down to earth he will never be the same person we knew growing up. I am going to just sit back, pray, and support my parents in whatever they decide to do. When I see something I can do to help the situation I will step up, but until then.......Drugs are such and evil thing. They have destroyed so many lives, and I hope its not too late for my brother. Thanks for the words of advice. He is a big hoops fan, and was reffing high school. We thought that was his passion and would help to keep him out of trouble. Oh well. Ill keep you all posted.

My mom would tell me that addicts self medicate to avoid dealing with something that occured in their life. The easiet way to self medicate is via drugs and alcohol or some other vice.

I guess my question to you is do you know what serious life event could have possibly lead your brother to "self medicate"? While learning that definitely won't help him now, it will help him later when he recieves counciling.

As for the issue at hand. I agree with the above poster. Probably the best way to help your brother out is to not help him at all. He has to know that his actions have consequenses and if he wants to continue down his current path then he will suffer alone. But if he is serious about recovery then he has all of the familes support. I know that is hard when you hear him crying, when jonesing for a fix, or emotionally blackmailing you and other family members. I'm reminded of that terrible scene in "Basketball Diaries". Any form of help could be miscontrusted as enabling him, and the cycle of abuse continues and the problem never gets fixed.

Hope things get better.

mtsu_av8er · April 22nd, 2007, 11:18

I know that I'm the weirdo here, but why would you continue to give him a support system? If he chooses to do this, walk away. He will decide that he wants help, or he won't.

Sorry that you have to deal with this. Don't let it ruin your own life.

triple7 · April 22nd, 2007, 12:04

My parents continued to support him because of the baby. My bro went through the rehab process and emerged clean(for a while). my parents agreed to help them financially as long as he stayed on track. His gf was totally dependent on him and his salary to pay for the kid and bills, so when he started screwing up again she didnt say anything to my folks for fear they'd cut him off. anyways, now its all a huge mess. Im not sure whats going to happen. Like youve said, he has chosen this path. I am not sure what has caused him to go down this road. His alcohol and drugs caused him to fail out of school, and I think he has some chip on his shoulder about that....perhaps those feelings of inadequacy and failure have perpetuated and exacerbated the abuse. Regardless, the family has been torn apart with this. Its a really sad thing. But I know that if I let this drag me down it wont make things any better. It will just screw my life up.

Thanks for the advice from everyone. I knew it was out there, thats why I shared my story. Hoping maybe this will help someone else down the road too with a little bit of knowledge.

Kristie · April 22nd, 2007, 12:47

the problem is that no one else can fix his problems but him. having a support network helps but if everyone isn't mentally and emotionally "there" to support the team, then it just won't work.

one of the things i had to learn when my dad started self medicating with alcohol too much was in order for him to get better, he HAD to hit rock bottom. I figured he hit rock bottom when he went to jail but honestly, i don't think that did it because he still isn't fixing his issues...he hasn't had a sip of alcohol since going to jail and can't because of PO conditions but he still disagrees that he has a problem with depression and that he needs medication & counseling. the only thing i'm thankful for there is that his PO conditions state that he has to continue mental health treatment for 10 yrs so even if he doesn't continue counseling (which he isn't going to now) he has to stay on meds... so that's my only saving grace. if he didn't have that on his PO conditions and choose to not continue treatment, i would have walked away at that point because i did all i could do. My problem was that i let it affect MY life too much and i can tell you by experience that you have to have a place where you can say you did all you could do and you can do no more, you have to at some point, be ok with stepping away and stopping all help because you can lead a person to water, you just can't *make* them drink it. it took me too long to learn that. don't let it affect you like it did me. find a place where you can say "you've had enuff" and be ok with that choice. you can only do what YOU can do (if that makes sense?)...and if they don't want to help themselves, they're NOT going to. there is NOTHING you can do about that or to change that.. trust me, i've tried and it did not help, only hurt (me).

I suggest you be there for your parents and offer assistance as much as possible (while trying to not let it affect your own life *too* much). speaking from experience... one or two people cannot handle this alone. they're gonna need help in some way and it doesn't help to call up and ask for updates all the time without offering to help kwim?! that's pretty much all my famiily members did (most of the time)... they wanted to know what was going on but really didn't want to get involved and it literally sucked cuz doug and i could have really used the help but they all figured if we've got a hold on things then everything is ok, we don't need the help and he'll (my dad) will be ok cuz we've got his back.

the only thing you/they can do is watch him fall and help support the 2 yr old...when he hits rock bottom (and you'll know it), he's going to need help coming back up.. at that point, he should be willing to do anything you want him to do (counseling, rehab etc etc)...if he's not, he hasn't hit rock bottom. your bro has to live with his consequences no matter what it ends up being. he chose his route and you just have to remember that when he comes to your door asking for money or trying to make you feel as low as he does...it's gonna hurt to say no and close the door....but i agree with skydreamer that tough love is what's going to help but truth be known, he's the only one that can fix himself..all you can do is help lead the way and if he doesn't take it, it's not your fault. just know that you did everything you could do.

hang in there!

EatSleepFly · April 22nd, 2007, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

I know that I'm the weirdo here, but why would you continue to give him a support system? If he chooses to do this, walk away. He will decide that he wants help, or he won't.

Sorry that you have to deal with this. Don't let it ruin your own life.

I'm with Lloyd on this, and I've been/am in a similar situation with my youngest brother (18). Drugs, alcohol, theft, felonies, misdemeanors, jail, probation, he's neck deep in it all. And he just continues to screw off, despite being given (in my opinion), too many breaks, and too much help. His latest adventure that I know of, was deciding to get wasted and go for a drive around town, resulting in a DUI and of course, violation of probation and (hopefully temporary) loss of a really good job that my dad helped him get.

I'm done caring, and I'm done trying to help. Unlike you, I'm most afraid when my brother is out of jail. I want him behind bars where he won't hurt innocent people any more than he already has. This is beyond "young and stupid." This is his choice to run around acting like a punk. He's probably taken 15 years off my poor father's life, and I hate him for it. Not to mention what he has put the rest of my family through. If I never see him again, it won't bother me a bit.

I firmly believe that you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves.

Doug Taylor · April 22nd, 2007, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by EatSleepFly

I firmly believe that you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves.

Bingo.

That's the hard part. Unless they are ready catch the ball and run toward the endzone with it, it's wasted effort.

USMCmech · April 22nd, 2007, 21:18

Help your folks support your nice, and her Mom.

Cut your brother COMPLETELY OFF.

Love him enough to let him suffer some of the consequneses of his actions.

Pray he sees reason before something tragic happens.

That's all you can do.

triple7 · April 22nd, 2007, 22:05

It seems as though the write answer for me is to leave him be and let him hit rock bottom. I thought Friday was rock bottom but I guess not. Now I fear the worst. the thought of jail at this point is the lesser of the evils. It probably would be good for him. At least get him off the drugs and make him sober up long enough to see things in a diff light. Its so sad. His gf asked my mom for 15$ today....15$!!! thats how bad of a spot hes left them in. Anyways, thanks for everyones support. Even though Ive never met any of you in person, its nice to know that you care enough to type a note and share your opinions. and oh yeah... hes my nephew....landon's his name:-)

TheWife · April 22nd, 2007, 23:34

In my experiences, it's not always necessary to hit some sort of "rock bottom" in order to stop, and likewise, I've also seen people hit rock bottom repeatedly, and still not stop, so I wouldn't put too much into waiting for that rock bottom moment. I think you need to decide what your boundries are going to be, let him know, and then stick to them no matter what. For example, he can visit you and/or his child in a neutral location for 30 minutes or something like that. Or, he can come to your home but if he shows any signs of being high he has to leave. Or, whatever it is that works for you, keeps you and your family safe, but isn't totally cutting him out of your life, unless that's what you really need. I do think that when people get completely cut off, they get worse, because they feel alone, and the only thing that makes them feel better is their addiction. Having a close family member just to hang out w/ and talk to and have fun with, may end up being something for the person to hold on to, hope of what life may be like more often if he can clean up. Are you comfortable meeting w/ him for lunch and a game of bowling, or whatever? Just something where you can forget he is an addict for a minute, and just love him, and share a few laughs and make a memory, but only as long as it's safe and you are comfortable with it. I wouldn't give him any money, or a place to stay, or help him find a job other than maybe a mention of "hey I heard this place was hiring". But I think as long as you put up some serious and strictly enforced fences, you can still have a relationship and possibly have a positive influence on him. Maybe if you can, ask him what his goals are, see if you can get him to open up, what does he want out of his future, what would make him feel happy and more whole? If he is willing to answer you, tell him to fight for it! Tell him he can make that happen, and the rewards will pay off far greater than the temporary pain relief he gets from drugs. Talk to him about seeing his child grow up, and being able to do things like go to soccer practice and school plays. Don't make a big deal out of "get sober", but try to help him see his life and his future and what it could look like. That may or may not be helpful to him, depends on his personality and how far into this he is, but it maybe can't hurt to try. Whatever you do, good luck, you are a good person for wanting to help and for caring. If you can't talk to him or see him or don't want to be around him, that's perfectly fine, his child would surely benefit from having you as a positive role model in so he knows not all dads are like his.

Kristie · April 23rd, 2007, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWife

I think you need to decide what your boundries are going to be, let him know, and then stick to them no matter what. For example, he can visit you and/or his child in a neutral location for 30 minutes or something like that. Or, he can come to your home but if he shows any signs of being high he has to leave. Or, whatever it is that works for you, keeps you and your family safe, but isn't totally cutting him out of your life, unless that's what you really need. I do think that when people get completely cut off, they get worse, because they feel alone, and the only thing that makes them feel better is their addiction. Having a close family member just to hang out w/ and talk to and have fun with, may end up being something for the person to hold on to, hope of what life may be like more often if he can clean up. Are you comfortable meeting w/ him for lunch and a game of bowling, or whatever? Just something where you can forget he is an addict for a minute, and just love him, and share a few laughs and make a memory, but only as long as it's safe and you are comfortable with it. I wouldn't give him any money, or a place to stay, or help him find a job other than maybe a mention of "hey I heard this place was hiring". But I think as long as you put up some serious and strictly enforced fences, you can still have a relationship and possibly have a positive influence on him.

one thing though is that you've got to be really careful about that because when it comes to drugs, it's like being mentally unstable and you have really no idea what that person might do if you try to go against their wishes or defy them or keep the strict borders...you could end up getting yourself or child in the way of something really bad and harmful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWife

Maybe if you can, ask him what his goals are, see if you can get him to open up, what does he want out of his future, what would make him feel happy and more whole? If he is willing to answer you, tell him to fight for it! Tell him he can make that happen, and the rewards will pay off far greater than the temporary pain relief he gets from drugs. Talk to him about seeing his child grow up, and being able to do things like go to soccer practice and school plays. Don't make a big deal out of "get sober", but try to help him see his life and his future and what it could look like. That may or may not be helpful to him, depends on his personality and how far into this he is, but it maybe can't hurt to try.

you can try...one time but i wouldn't try more than once because otherwise your blowing hot air... i've done that talk before, more than once and it doesn't work unless the other person does what they say they're gonna do. talk is cheap when it comes to this...it's the actions that speak volumes. you could talk till your face turns blue and it most likely wouldn't make the slightest difference unless that person is at a point where they "see the light" and see that change needs to happen (usually at a cliff hanging location, maybe not totally rock bottom).

TheWife · April 23rd, 2007, 10:37

Quote:

one thing though is that you've got to be really careful about that because when it comes to drugs, it's like being mentally unstable and you have really no idea what that person might do if you try to go against their wishes or defy them or keep the strict borders...you could end up getting yourself or child in the way of something really bad and harmful.

He needs to defy his brother and keep strict borders if that's what it takes to keep his family safe. If his brother isn't that far into it, then he probably doesn't need to go that far right now. Letting his brother do what he wants just because you worry that he'll get mad if you try to say "no I'm not giving you money" or "no I'm not letting you live here" is counter productive to say the least, and may still be putting the family in just as much danger as if he were to set his boundries and say "no!"

Quote:

you can try...one time but i wouldn't try more than once because otherwise your blowing hot air... i've done that talk before, more than once and it doesn't work unless the other person does what they say they're gonna do. talk is cheap when it comes to this...it's the actions that speak volumes. you could talk till your face turns blue and it most likely wouldn't make the slightest difference unless that person is at a point where they "see the light" and see that change needs to happen (usually at a cliff hanging location, maybe not totally rock bottom).

It all depends on the person Kristie, I have had a huge exposure to people with addictions and they all reacted a little differently. For some, having a person they could talk to, even if they weren't ready to make changes, did have a positive influence on them anyway. It may not stop them from doing drugs, but it may stop them from going MORE hardcore. If it isn't a danger to him to go have lunch or go for a walk or just spend some time with him, just to be there, it may greatly benefit his brother, that doesn't mean he'll immediately see the light or go home that day and make changes, but it can give him food for thought when he's alone and thinking about life, and in the long run, may prevent things from getting worse if he feels he has SOMEONE, and hasn't been completely abandoned by those he cares about. That doesn't mean you let him get away w/ treating you bad or taking advantage, you just be someone he can talk to. It doesn't have to be about his adiction at all, it can just simply be "hey, how's it going, want to catch a game?"

atpwannabe · April 23rd, 2007, 11:23

May I suggest "Celebrate Recovery." Also there is a song called the Spirit Song. It is found in most hymnals. Here is a prayer for your brother triple7.
I hope that it is ok with the Administrator to post this.

"Watch over your child, triple7's brother, oh LORD, bless and guide him wherever he may be, keeping him unspotted from the world. Strengthen when he stands, comfort him when discouraged or sorrowful; raise him up if he falls & in his heart may your PEACE abide all the days of his life, in Jesus' name I pray. AMEN."

God bless.

Blue skies.

atp

triple7 · April 23rd, 2007, 18:24

Thanks ATP, and everyone for their input. not sure what is gonna happen in the next few months, but whatever road lay out in front will for sure be long and rocky. Such a sad experience. What kills me is that you look at all the faces of those killed in the VT shootings, and watch stories of young parents who have lost children. I find my self asking why he is given the opportunity to not only live what could be a wonderful life with a family who loves him and lots of opportunity, but also to be blessed with such a perfect little boy. I guess life just isnt fair.

I can tell you though that I am going on my last 2 day for IOE and am gonna knock the bottom out of it. Leaving out of IAH with an overnight in Puebla mexico. Should be pretty cool. Time to show I can fly this airplane, da**it!

PositionAndHold · April 25th, 2007, 01:35

Trip7, everyone here has given some great advice.

I had a cousin who was like my brother end up dead, and a close family friend who is in jail now. I also have been a corrections officer for the last 8 years. So I have some pretty first hand knowledge of this kind of thing.

The whole "they have to want help, to be helped" is about as straight forward as it gets. However, if they don't want help then the next best thing is probably jail. Most county jails that I am familair with, it is pretty hard to actually get drugs in jail. Not saying it doesn't happen, but we screen every piece of mail here, and they can't have a package of any kind. People do sober up, and are some times able to look at things in a different from a different point of view. When they understand that once the get out, they will have some support is when it seems to work the best. You do have to be very catious once they do get out, because they are no where near the home stretch.

If you need any other kind of help or questions feel free to shoot me a PM.

cezzna · May 4th, 2007, 21:54

I have lots of experience with this too. My brother is an alcoholic and will likely live another 10 years at best. My ex wife went loco and her drinking went off the deep end along with cheating and other things. I held her hand ane she went to AA for awhile, but it didn't stick. Her biggest problem is her mother won't let her hit rock bottom. I had to divorce her and take custody of my kids. Now I have a nanny and thankfully a flying job that gives me alot of hometime. There is nothing you can do to help until they help themselves. Short of that happening you are doomed to watching history repeat itself. It sucks, but thank god the kids are ok.

Aero_Engineer · May 6th, 2007, 22:55

First of all let me tell you that I sympathize with you and your family in this hard situation.
As so many others have mentioned already don't stop loving him because he is like this, the most he needs right now is love from close family members. On the other hand he needs to get a hard sense of reality and usually that happens when someone gets arrested and faces the law.
He has to want to be helped if not no one and I mean absolutely no one will be able to help him. He has got to spend some time alone away from any drugs or alcohol so he can realize that he needs help, you guys somehow have to provide that for him.

April 21st, 2007, 11:54	#1
triple7 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 878	dealing with an addict family member So, I usually dont like to air out dirty laundry on an online forum. But I dont know where else to turn to. Today is kinda the bottom of the barrel...end of the line, so to speak. My brother, 29, has been an alcholic drug abuser since he was in HS. 2 years ago he got his girlfriend pregnant and they had a beautiful little boy. I love that kid alot. We thought the little guy was sent to help fix my brother, and he did for a while. My bro went into rehab, he got a job, tried to make things work. We all supported him with love, money, and faith. We gave him every benefit of the doubt. My brother was even responsible for my major reinjury of my pectoral major tear. he opened my incision, blood everywhere, huge scene......He has yet to apologize. anyhow, I guess the purpose of my post is to 1)vent and 2) ask for advice and support. Thursday he had a huge blowup with his gf. He left the house and disapeared for 36 hours. He didnt go to work Friday, and showed up at their place last night around 2 am. He had emptied their checking account, and was actually 500 overdrawn. He was making zero sense...totally wakced out on the drugs. And he told his gf that he owed 500$ to some drug dealer or he was dead. Does he really owe 500, or does he need 500 more to buy more drugs. you see where the non-trust is. We dont believe a word he says. So, he went to work today an hour and a half late, which tells us he prob doesnthave a job anymore. And his gf sits at home with no way to pay the bills that are due in a week or so. My parents help support her and the baby to some extent, but there has to be a stop to the madness. I am not sure what is going to happen in the next few days, but I can tell you that I am in a tight spot in my life as well, and I am at a loss as what I should do. Do I say something to him? Do I sit back and let my parents deal with this? Seriously, I am just finishing up my IOE, and have my own life to deal with. Do I just sit and support my folks while they deal, or do I go and take matters into my own hands. My biggest fear is that he will end up dead, in jail, or end up killing someone else. you guys are a pretty sensible bunch, with alot of life experience. I value and respect alot of what people say on here, and was hoping maybe someone could shed some light on this for me. Thanks all. __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI- KJYO Commercial MEL/SEL, Instrument airplane EMB-145 SIC

April 21st, 2007, 15:22	#2
Andrew_VT Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vermont Posts: 616	Re: dealing with an addict family member There are no concrete (and especially easy) answers to any of that. I wouldn't even know where to begin, but it's definitely something I'm going to be thinking about. I hope everything turns out alright.

April 21st, 2007, 15:34	#3
Andrew_VT Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vermont Posts: 616	Re: dealing with an addict family member I just had a thought. While before this advice can even be applied he would have to come back down to earth a little bit (rehab again or similar), it will matter after. I think alot of his losing battle with drugs/alcohol could be traced to his job. Alot of lower end (blue collar) jobs are embedded in a drug/alcohol culture. If you work at an auto-shop, going out after work and getting wasted is probably talked about more than Nascar. Factory employees I'm familiar with make a routine of downing a 40 on their lunch break. Management cant fire everybody because $10/hr labor is hard to find, so instead they respond by making their job simplier so they cant screw stuff up even if they are drunk. This repetitve, brainless work only encourages drug abuse even more. I would recommend an entirely different job for your brother when he is capable. A job where he is gone alot and exposed to new enviroments, and most importantly won't be encouraged to drink afterwards by co-workers. Now...what kind of entry-level job would accomplish this? I have no idea!

April 21st, 2007, 15:40	#4
NotCoolEnufToFly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gretna, LA Posts: 2,543	Re: dealing with an addict family member Wow... I'm sorry that you are going through that. I can understand quite a bit of what you are going through. My brother has been addicted to crystal meth for a long time now and he and his wife are both serving a 10yr sentence for manufacturing, amoung other things. They have two little girls that we absolutely adore. My mother is a fabulous person and I adore her but she is very passive and was not able to deal with my brother very well when he was doped up. I, as a teenager, kicked him out many times. Most of the time he would get mad and bust a tv before he left or even bust me in the mouth, and then I would have him arrested. I love my brother. God only knows why, but I do. All I have to say, is don't be afraid of him going to prison, sometimes that the safest place for them and everyone they affect. I thank God everyday that my brother and his wife didn't get to keep my neices. I don't know that they would be the same happy, healthy, beautiful little girls that they are today had that been the case. And I also think my brother may actually be coming around after being there 5yrs and maybe he'll chage. Who knows? Only time will tell. My only advice is do not enable him, but continue to love him! __________________ Papa Alpha Mike http://pamgagliani.flyblog.com/

April 21st, 2007, 17:01	#5
tprops4me Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Michigan Posts: 346	Re: dealing with an addict family member Triple7, I have lost several members of my family over the past several years to this very thing. I wish I could tell you what the fix is, but I cannot. The only thing I have found out is that these things do not fix themselves. My brother was following in the family footsteps, but he got lucky. Me and my family refused to let him go down the same way. It was a long hard road, but in the end it took him finding a passion to pull him out of it. He goes through now with our support as well as support groups. The whole tough love concept. It is cheesy, but it works. I wish you the best of luck, and remember, this will not fix itsself.

April 21st, 2007, 18:06	#6
triple7 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 878	Re: dealing with an addict family member Thanks guys. He was working at an HVAC supply company, and yeah, the guys he worked with were bad news. I dont know what his drug of choice is but i am guessing coke or maybe some sort of meth. Really sad because I fear he has done some really irreversible damage to his brain. Even if he comes back down to earth he will never be the same person we knew growing up. I am going to just sit back, pray, and support my parents in whatever they decide to do. When I see something I can do to help the situation I will step up, but until then.......Drugs are such and evil thing. They have destroyed so many lives, and I hope its not too late for my brother. Thanks for the words of advice. He is a big hoops fan, and was reffing high school. We thought that was his passion and would help to keep him out of trouble. Oh well. Ill keep you all posted. __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI- KJYO Commercial MEL/SEL, Instrument airplane EMB-145 SIC

April 21st, 2007, 22:04	#7
S.T.Aviator Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Posts: 454	Re: dealing with an addict family member Hey triple7. I feel your pain bro. I have a friend hooked on coke and it is a real frustration trying to figure out how to help him, but at the end of the day it is his battle and his alone. Nothing that anyone else says or does can help your brother. The best thing that my friend has done is to move to a new city and surround himself with positive sober people. Don't give up and stay positive, he will find his path.

April 22nd, 2007, 01:25	#9
SkyDreamer Newbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 11	Re: dealing with an addict family member Tripe 7 - I am so sorry to hear about your family's struggles regarding your brother. As you can see from the responses, this is a pervasive issue that affects more people than we would care to acknowledge (especially the epidemic with Meth). I have seen this from the perspective of a Ph.D. Marriage and Family Therapist (I keep my MI license current but would much rather fly), and as a Police Officer. The fact that he would risk his family and a precious 2 year old child shows that this is a problem bigger than he is. I would agree with the posters who share your experience - along with the standard rehab/12-Steps, the "tough love" approach is necessary, if not for him, then at least for the sake of his child, and the rest of the family. Don't mean to "preach" (I certainly have not been in your shoes and would not envy you) but the things your parents identify as "support" (providing money, etc.)may ultimately prolong his behavior. He most likely needs to see/feel/realize that consequences come with his choices and jail/losing his freedom may be something he needs (not that I think our legal system is the best place to rehabilitate drug/alcohol addicts - it may even exacerbate the issue in many cases). I would encourage you and your parents and anyone else in the "circle of influence" to focus your energy and efforts on what is best for your 2 year old niece and the girlfriend (but be careful of supporting her in a way where she turns around and gives your borther money/stuff, etc, or where he can continue to take advantage of her and your family's generosity). This is such a struggle - to love someone so much and yet to realize that the best way to help seems/feels like turning your back on them. Thanks for sharing your struggle on the forum - I am sure you have helped others by doing so. I hope you experience our suppport and our empathy, and we will pray for a "successful" outcome. Congratulations on IOE by the way - hope this doesn't interfere too much with things, and wish you a brilliant career. __________________ Don't Confuse Activity with Productivity!

April 22nd, 2007, 11:18	#11
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,403	Re: dealing with an addict family member I know that I'm the weirdo here, but why would you continue to give him a support system? If he chooses to do this, walk away. He will decide that he wants help, or he won't. Sorry that you have to deal with this. Don't let it ruin your own life. __________________ ------- "Sadness bears no remedy for the problems in your life."

April 22nd, 2007, 12:04	#12
triple7 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 878	Re: dealing with an addict family member My parents continued to support him because of the baby. My bro went through the rehab process and emerged clean(for a while). my parents agreed to help them financially as long as he stayed on track. His gf was totally dependent on him and his salary to pay for the kid and bills, so when he started screwing up again she didnt say anything to my folks for fear they'd cut him off. anyways, now its all a huge mess. Im not sure whats going to happen. Like youve said, he has chosen this path. I am not sure what has caused him to go down this road. His alcohol and drugs caused him to fail out of school, and I think he has some chip on his shoulder about that....perhaps those feelings of inadequacy and failure have perpetuated and exacerbated the abuse. Regardless, the family has been torn apart with this. Its a really sad thing. But I know that if I let this drag me down it wont make things any better. It will just screw my life up. Thanks for the advice from everyone. I knew it was out there, thats why I shared my story. Hoping maybe this will help someone else down the road too with a little bit of knowledge. __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI- KJYO Commercial MEL/SEL, Instrument airplane EMB-145 SIC

April 22nd, 2007, 12:47	#13
Kristie Big Chief's Woman Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Posts: 17,684 Blog Entries: 3	Re: dealing with an addict family member the problem is that no one else can fix his problems but him. having a support network helps but if everyone isn't mentally and emotionally "there" to support the team, then it just won't work. one of the things i had to learn when my dad started self medicating with alcohol too much was in order for him to get better, he HAD to hit rock bottom. I figured he hit rock bottom when he went to jail but honestly, i don't think that did it because he still isn't fixing his issues...he hasn't had a sip of alcohol since going to jail and can't because of PO conditions but he still disagrees that he has a problem with depression and that he needs medication & counseling. the only thing i'm thankful for there is that his PO conditions state that he has to continue mental health treatment for 10 yrs so even if he doesn't continue counseling (which he isn't going to now) he has to stay on meds... so that's my only saving grace. if he didn't have that on his PO conditions and choose to not continue treatment, i would have walked away at that point because i did all i could do. My problem was that i let it affect MY life too much and i can tell you by experience that you have to have a place where you can say you did all you could do and you can do no more, you have to at some point, be ok with stepping away and stopping all help because you can lead a person to water, you just can't make them drink it. it took me too long to learn that. don't let it affect you like it did me. find a place where you can say "you've had enuff" and be ok with that choice. you can only do what YOU can do (if that makes sense?)...and if they don't want to help themselves, they're NOT going to. there is NOTHING you can do about that or to change that.. trust me, i've tried and it did not help, only hurt (me). I suggest you be there for your parents and offer assistance as much as possible (while trying to not let it affect your own life too much). speaking from experience... one or two people cannot handle this alone. they're gonna need help in some way and it doesn't help to call up and ask for updates all the time without offering to help kwim?! that's pretty much all my famiily members did (most of the time)... they wanted to know what was going on but really didn't want to get involved and it literally sucked cuz doug and i could have really used the help but they all figured if we've got a hold on things then everything is ok, we don't need the help and he'll (my dad) will be ok cuz we've got his back. the only thing you/they can do is watch him fall and help support the 2 yr old...when he hits rock bottom (and you'll know it), he's going to need help coming back up.. at that point, he should be willing to do anything you want him to do (counseling, rehab etc etc)...if he's not, he hasn't hit rock bottom. your bro has to live with his consequences no matter what it ends up being. he chose his route and you just have to remember that when he comes to your door asking for money or trying to make you feel as low as he does...it's gonna hurt to say no and close the door....but i agree with skydreamer that tough love is what's going to help but truth be known, he's the only one that can fix himself..all you can do is help lead the way and if he doesn't take it, it's not your fault. just know that you did everything you could do. hang in there! __________________ Wife of a Delta B767 ER F/O jetgirls.net Last edited by Kristie; April 22nd, 2007 at 13:09.

April 22nd, 2007, 21:18	#16
USMCmech Old Skool Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 1,557	Re: dealing with an addict family member Help your folks support your nice, and her Mom. Cut your brother COMPLETELY OFF. Love him enough to let him suffer some of the consequneses of his actions. Pray he sees reason before something tragic happens. That's all you can do. __________________ "You may all go to Hell, I shall go to Texas" David Crockett

April 22nd, 2007, 22:05	#17
triple7 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 878	Re: dealing with an addict family member It seems as though the write answer for me is to leave him be and let him hit rock bottom. I thought Friday was rock bottom but I guess not. Now I fear the worst. the thought of jail at this point is the lesser of the evils. It probably would be good for him. At least get him off the drugs and make him sober up long enough to see things in a diff light. Its so sad. His gf asked my mom for 15$ today....15$!!! thats how bad of a spot hes left them in. Anyways, thanks for everyones support. Even though Ive never met any of you in person, its nice to know that you care enough to type a note and share your opinions. and oh yeah... hes my nephew....landon's his name:-) __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI- KJYO Commercial MEL/SEL, Instrument airplane EMB-145 SIC

April 22nd, 2007, 23:34	#18
TheWife Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Utah Posts: 4,168	Re: dealing with an addict family member In my experiences, it's not always necessary to hit some sort of "rock bottom" in order to stop, and likewise, I've also seen people hit rock bottom repeatedly, and still not stop, so I wouldn't put too much into waiting for that rock bottom moment. I think you need to decide what your boundries are going to be, let him know, and then stick to them no matter what. For example, he can visit you and/or his child in a neutral location for 30 minutes or something like that. Or, he can come to your home but if he shows any signs of being high he has to leave. Or, whatever it is that works for you, keeps you and your family safe, but isn't totally cutting him out of your life, unless that's what you really need. I do think that when people get completely cut off, they get worse, because they feel alone, and the only thing that makes them feel better is their addiction. Having a close family member just to hang out w/ and talk to and have fun with, may end up being something for the person to hold on to, hope of what life may be like more often if he can clean up. Are you comfortable meeting w/ him for lunch and a game of bowling, or whatever? Just something where you can forget he is an addict for a minute, and just love him, and share a few laughs and make a memory, but only as long as it's safe and you are comfortable with it. I wouldn't give him any money, or a place to stay, or help him find a job other than maybe a mention of "hey I heard this place was hiring". But I think as long as you put up some serious and strictly enforced fences, you can still have a relationship and possibly have a positive influence on him. Maybe if you can, ask him what his goals are, see if you can get him to open up, what does he want out of his future, what would make him feel happy and more whole? If he is willing to answer you, tell him to fight for it! Tell him he can make that happen, and the rewards will pay off far greater than the temporary pain relief he gets from drugs. Talk to him about seeing his child grow up, and being able to do things like go to soccer practice and school plays. Don't make a big deal out of "get sober", but try to help him see his life and his future and what it could look like. That may or may not be helpful to him, depends on his personality and how far into this he is, but it maybe can't hurt to try. Whatever you do, good luck, you are a good person for wanting to help and for caring. If you can't talk to him or see him or don't want to be around him, that's perfectly fine, his child would surely benefit from having you as a positive role model in so he knows not all dads are like his. __________________ Michelle

April 23rd, 2007, 11:23	#21
atpwannabe Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 188	Re: dealing with an addict family member May I suggest "Celebrate Recovery." Also there is a song called the Spirit Song. It is found in most hymnals. Here is a prayer for your brother triple7. I hope that it is ok with the Administrator to post this. "Watch over your child, triple7's brother, oh LORD, bless and guide him wherever he may be, keeping him unspotted from the world. Strengthen when he stands, comfort him when discouraged or sorrowful; raise him up if he falls & in his heart may your PEACE abide all the days of his life, in Jesus' name I pray. AMEN." God bless. Blue skies. atp __________________ "Personality and Charm may get the door open; however it's Character & Integrity that keeps them open."

April 23rd, 2007, 18:24	#22
triple7 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 878	Re: dealing with an addict family member Thanks ATP, and everyone for their input. not sure what is gonna happen in the next few months, but whatever road lay out in front will for sure be long and rocky. Such a sad experience. What kills me is that you look at all the faces of those killed in the VT shootings, and watch stories of young parents who have lost children. I find my self asking why he is given the opportunity to not only live what could be a wonderful life with a family who loves him and lots of opportunity, but also to be blessed with such a perfect little boy. I guess life just isnt fair. I can tell you though that I am going on my last 2 day for IOE and am gonna knock the bottom out of it. Leaving out of IAH with an overnight in Puebla mexico. Should be pretty cool. Time to show I can fly this airplane, da**it! __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI- KJYO Commercial MEL/SEL, Instrument airplane EMB-145 SIC

April 25th, 2007, 01:35	#23
PositionAndHold Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 206	Re: dealing with an addict family member Trip7, everyone here has given some great advice. I had a cousin who was like my brother end up dead, and a close family friend who is in jail now. I also have been a corrections officer for the last 8 years. So I have some pretty first hand knowledge of this kind of thing. The whole "they have to want help, to be helped" is about as straight forward as it gets. However, if they don't want help then the next best thing is probably jail. Most county jails that I am familair with, it is pretty hard to actually get drugs in jail. Not saying it doesn't happen, but we screen every piece of mail here, and they can't have a package of any kind. People do sober up, and are some times able to look at things in a different from a different point of view. When they understand that once the get out, they will have some support is when it seems to work the best. You do have to be very catious once they do get out, because they are no where near the home stretch. If you need any other kind of help or questions feel free to shoot me a PM.

May 4th, 2007, 21:54	#24
cezzna Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 73	Re: dealing with an addict family member I have lots of experience with this too. My brother is an alcoholic and will likely live another 10 years at best. My ex wife went loco and her drinking went off the deep end along with cheating and other things. I held her hand ane she went to AA for awhile, but it didn't stick. Her biggest problem is her mother won't let her hit rock bottom. I had to divorce her and take custody of my kids. Now I have a nanny and thankfully a flying job that gives me alot of hometime. There is nothing you can do to help until they help themselves. Short of that happening you are doomed to watching history repeat itself. It sucks, but thank god the kids are ok.

May 6th, 2007, 22:55	#25
Aero_Engineer Old Skool Join Date: May 2005 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,032	Re: dealing with an addict family member First of all let me tell you that I sympathize with you and your family in this hard situation. As so many others have mentioned already don't stop loving him because he is like this, the most he needs right now is love from close family members. On the other hand he needs to get a hard sense of reality and usually that happens when someone gets arrested and faces the law. He has to want to be helped if not no one and I mean absolutely no one will be able to help him. He has got to spend some time alone away from any drugs or alcohol so he can realize that he needs help, you guys somehow have to provide that for him.