Abusive relationship

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Kristie

get back in touch with phx police and have them go check on her then! as evidence, you could use the disconnected phone thing and tell them she was supposed to be back at work and how many people have been trying to contact her. actually, i'd use HR for that too...

hopefully she just changed her phone number so they couldn't call her anymore. have you talked to her family?

also, does she have a lawyer? if so, maybe through her parents - you can help her with the evidence in the voicemail... ie: make sure you somehow save that voicemail message. it could be used as evidence to help put him away for good....

I have a hard time believing they would release him without a higher bail cost...esp with the past charges and the arrest report.

OMG...I had a hard time believing it as well. He already had a prior conviction for assult and was attending anger management classes. But you know Kristie thats our legal system. Del Vagus can savagely beat someone and get off scott free but if I speed on the 101 I bet they would try to put me under the jail. I talked to Anita again today and she was going to get in contact with either Vernetta or her aunt to find out whats up. As for the voicemail. I still have it saved on my phone. The HR manager,the Tempe police SRO listened to it as well as my sup. So people have listened to it and have a record of it. I just fear that after awhile the message will be deleted automatically.

[Kristie]

yeah, i know mine are after 14 days...I don't know what to tell you bout that.

[pullup]

Play the message on speaker phone or at its loudest setting. Record it onto a tape with an old school tape deck. My wife had to do it and it worked perfectly. Also, it you have the message saved, listen to it and keep resaving it every week or so.

[Kristie]

I dunno.. cuz from what i'm learning, in order for anything to be "evidentiary" material, it has to be examined by whatever it was recorded on.. like min recorder tapes, that type of thing - so my bet would be that it'd have to be saved on that phone in order to be admissible. but that would be something an attorney would have to give more info on.

[Mariano]

Originally Posted by TonyC

OK, if you want to play the timeline game, I can play along.


I'll even convert these to your time zone, so as not to confuse you.

Post #1 December 13th, 2005, 10:38:
OK, that's where you began the thread, describing physical abuse, battery, and the threat of life to the woman and her children. When she told you she would wait for him to leave, you told her he won't leave.

You seemed to comprehend the seriousness of the situation, and seemed genuine in your request for advice.

Post #2 December 13th, 2005, 10:46:
Didn't take long for someone to come up with the idea of calling the police, did it?

Post #4 December 13th, 2005, 10:53:


Same advice. Except for Sprint100's advice to let Big Bubba do the work, the advice is unanimous so far.

Post #5 December 13th, 2005, 11:01:

Sprint100 gets a bit more serious, and it's unanimous - call the police.

Post #7 December 13th, 2005, 11:23:

Post #8 December 13th, 2005, 11:30:

Here's where you publicly acknowledge that you recognize Vernetta's responsibility to the children, and you publicly acknowledge that you either have not been listening, or you refuse to take the advice of your friends - - the ones whom you asked for advice. Notice, no posts by me yet.

From the same post:
All talk, no action.
Post #9 December 13th, 2005, 11:30:

Same theme ...




USMCMech agrees: Post #10 December 13th, 2005, 11:34

SteveC suggests The National Domestic Violence Hotline. and includes a link: Post #11[/u[] December 13th, 2005, 11:36

[u]Stevel agrees: Post #12 December 13th, 2005, 14:30

Kristie says, "just get her outta there..." : Post #13 December 13th, 2005, 15:49

FatBastard says, "Tell her to call the cops ..." Post #15 December 13th, 2005, 17:21

stuckingfk says, "... call the police and move the woman away from the situation." Post #17 December 13th, 2005, 22:41

Kristie suggested your Employee Assistance Program: Post #18[/u[] December 13th, 2005, 22:53



[u]The next day, in Post #19 (December 14th, 2005, 12:27), you tell us about your attempts to counsel her, and inform us that the abuse is still continuing -- she was threatened the previous night. Furthermore, the situation has worsened, because she now has no place to escape and nobody to look for her when she doesn't show up for work, since she's now on a leave of absence.


The situation is worse, the advice is consistent, and you refuse the advice.


Post #20 December 14th, 2005, 11:30:
Yeah, I agree. But I still did not comment. (How is this fitting your "Tony attacked Max" theory?)

seagull casts his vote for her using the system, the assistance for women:
Post #21 December 14th, 2005, 15:04


How many kids is she responsible for, how many souls are at stake?
Post #22 December 14th, 2005, 16:22:
And you've still done nothing to help her or the five kids - - nothing.

Kristie:
Post #23 December 14th, 2005, 17:13:

Finally, I can't remain silent any longer.
Post #24 December 14th, 2005, 19:20:

Now, how you could construe that as an attack on you is beyond me. I consider it to be very direct advice, but not personal in the least, and not even close to being an attack.


SteveC agrees, "Tony and Kristie are right." (Post #25 December 14th, 2005, 19:37)


And then a day and a half go by with no updates from you. 40 hours.

Doug Taylor agrees, "There is a wide variety of options available for her and she needs to take advantage of that before she gets killed." (Post #27 December 16th, 2005, 11:58)


Another 12 hours transpires, and Kristie offers you resources from a professional, including links to shelters, law enforcement, and educational resources for battered women:
Post #29 December 16th, 2005, 23:24:


Finally, we hear from you again, (Post #30, December 17th, 2005, 11:34) now some 67 hours since your last report. After receiving the same advice over and over, and being encouraged to have her seek shelter, after being given links to outstanding resources, all you can talk about is her having a baby with the loser, and birth control.

No report of having contacted authorities.


Another 36 hours go by with no posts from anyone, and Kristie asks (Post #31, December 18th, 2005, 23:09), "so? did you get the to her so she can get out of there or are you continuing to just sit there and listen?"


Your answer:
Post #32 December 19th, 2005, 00:11:


So, let's get this straight. Your "friend" is in a dangerous situation along with her five children where she fears for her life, and where she has been beaten and suffocated, and now nobody has heard from her in a week, except for you. (You said she called you at lunch just five days ago, see Post #22, December 14th, 2005, 16:22.)

Now, it's not out of an abundance of care or concern about your personal welfare that I felt compelled to interject my opinion in the matter. I don't know you from Adam, and have no desire to meet you. Don't take that as a compliment or an insult, it's neutral. But you did lead us all to believe that a woman and her children ARE at risk of bodily harm, and that you have done nothing to help her, and now you're just going to walk away from your so-called friend.

That is foolishness.

Again, you received this advice, this simple instruction, this tiny little thing that you could do to help her, to help her children, to avoid a death, perhaps six deaths.

Post #33 December 19th, 2005, 07:12:

Kristie again agrees:
Post #36 December 19th, 2005, 12:53:

Then you start objecting to my use of the word moron, comparing it to ready2fly's calling me a jackass, and offer nothing but lame excuses as to why you won't pick up the phone and call 911. (Post #38, December 19th, 2005, 13:27) "I have done all I that I can," you proclaim.

NO, you haven't. All you've done is talk to her, and walk away.

No mention of calling the police, or helping anyone fill out a police report.

Sprint100 agrees with me - - even though my approach was blunt:
Post #39 December 19th, 2005, 17:20):



Your response Post #40, December 19th, 2005, 18:36):
[paraphrase]

Y'all just don't understand.

I don't know enough to call the police.

Besides, the guy that might kill her is on probation and in anger management classes.

My conscious is clear

[/paraphrase]

Did I miss a part in there where you called the police, or helped file a police report? Didn't think so.




December 19th, 2005, 22:05, Post #43: Doug Taylor advises, "Help her get the ball rolling... Enough talky, bro!"

You respond with more excuses about how and why you can't call the police (Post #44, December 20th, 2005, 01:06):


Hey, Jenius, listen up to what everyone has been telling you - - call the police!

NO? I see, you still aren't convinced that calling the police is a good idea, and you certainly have not done it.

JEP gives you a suggestion as to how to get her address (Post #45, December 20th, 2005, 01:44).

I even told you what to tell the 911 operator, with no more information than what you've already told us, and two other details to which you are privy and we are not, her Cell Phone number, and her place of employment. (Post #46, December 20th, 2005, 08:05).

For that, you called me an ass. You told us again about Del Vagus's record of violence, and repeated your objection to calling the police.


I gotta tell you, Jenius, if I knew who this woman was, I'd just forward the Police Department a copy of this thread and let them take it from there. The frustrating thing here is that YOU are the one that has the critical information, and YOU are the one who refuses to put it to good use. Unfortunately, we have to deal with the drama queen.


Now Kristie has a change of heart for some reason. (Post #49, December 20th, 2005, 11:09) Don't do anything, she advises, because anything you do might get the woman in more trouble. There's noting you can do, she warns. And nothing is exactly what you're content to do.

Sprint disagrees with Kristie, (Post #50, December 20th, 2005, 12:19), advising that until somebody calls the cops, he "wouldn't chill just yet."

Your response? An ATC clearance, and more excuses as to why you can't or won't call the cops. (Post #51, December 20th, 2005, 13:02) Any hint here that you've called the cops or helped file a police report? Nope.

Again, in (Post #56, December 20th, 2005, 15:47), you repeat your objection to the idea of calling the police, and add your fear that you could be arrested for filing a false police report.

Oh, really? If you report facts, how could that be a false report? You have been telling the truth, haven't you, Jenius?


bunghole says, "Stop Playing Counselor!" (Post #59 December 20th, 2005, 17:50):

pullup, employing the linguistic tool of sarcasm, agrees (Post #60 December 20th, 2005, 21:17):

As of December 20th, 2005, 22:59 (Post #61) you are still adamant in your refusal to call the police. You demand an apology from me, and you cite your mommy's advice as a reason to take no action. You claim Doug and Kristie as character witnesses, even though you ignored their previous advice.

Have you called the police yet? Not that we can tell.

Kristie tries to help you focus on the important party of this discussion, Vernetta. (Post #62, December 20th, 2005, 23:17) All you can do is whine about how "Tony attacked R2F and now he attacked meeeee." (Post #63, December 20th, 2005, 23:51) You admit that you have taken no one’s advice.

And then you mention, "Anita her cousin has filed a police report."

Did you call the police? No. Did you file the report? No. Did you help file the report? No.

Anita did it. Well, at least someone seems to be interested in the woman's welfare.

Post #64, December 21st, 2005, 00:32: You refuse bunghole's advice (Do the right thing and call) by citing the expertise of your college student sister and social worker cousin. No, I got that wrong. Your social worker cousin didn't give you advice, because you didn't talk to her. It's just HAVING that cousin that makes you smart, right? No, it was your college student sister that gave her expert opinion of what the police would do.

Keep the family together, she advises.

Yeah, as long as the asphyxiation is only partial, not permanent.




Post #66, December 21st, 2005, 11:01 (about 17 hours ago): More excuses, more rationale, more "why I refuse to take the advice of practically everyone that has responded to this thread where I asked for advice." Again, you inform us that you "stopped giving advice..." and ''[w]ashed [your] hands and feel [your} conscious is clear."

Yeah, you mentioned that the "police have been called" and a "report has been filed." Interesting verb tense, there, Jenius. If you don't think we know the difference between "I called the police" and "the police were called", then you take us for idiots. You did not call the police.

Furthermore, if you had called the police, I am absolutely convinced that you would have posted, "OK, so like I called the police, and they like asked me what I wanted, and I like told them about this girl, and they like wanted to know more..." Either there would have been a desirable outcome from the phone call, or there would have been an undesirable outcome. Either way, I am sure that you would have been keen to report it. Now to attempt to sneak it in as a passive voice mention is ridiculous and unbelievable. You didn't fool me.

You still refuse to call the police.


Another attempt by me to be clear:Post #70, December 21st, 2005, 14:03:


Post #71, December 21st, 2005, 15:28: More protests, and an "Oh, didn't you read back there where I told you the police were called?" Yeah, right. 4 1/2 hours earlier you snuck in a passive voice mention of a call to the police, which you didn't make. No, sorry, Jenius, that doesn't count.

Post #73, December 21st, 2005, 17:25: The story gets better as the day goes on

See above. First the phone call was made, then you helped Anita make the phone call, and now you made the phone call yourself.

Sorry. Your story simply does not hold water.

(That's also an accurate summary of my response, Post #75, December 22nd, 2005, 05:14)




Now, what part of the timeline have I missed?

The drama has gone on for over 9 days, and only in the last 17 hours have you mentioned something about a phone call, then changed the mention to your helping, and then a claim that you made a phone call.


Bull.






.

Dude , you sure have a lot of time off.
Why don't you get in some Police Dept, private investigation office, or better..... debt collection.
I'm astonished.

[aloft]

Don't taunt him, man.

TonyC, don't even respond. Nothing for you to see here, just move on to the next thread.

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by Mariano

Dude , you sure have a lot of time off.
Why don't you get in some Police Dept, private investigation office, or better..... debt collection.
I'm astonished.

And the award for oldest REPOST of the day goes to ..... Mariano


December 22nd, 2005



See the lady at the window to claim your prize.






.

[Mariano]

Originally Posted by TonyC

And the award for oldest REPOST of the day goes to ..... Mariano


December 22nd, 2005



See the lady at the window to claim your prize.






.

Well I started to read it on December 22nd, but I had to take breaks to go to work, take my dog out and other daily chores, it took a while, but finally last night I finished

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by TonyC

And the award for oldest REPOST of the day goes to ..... Mariano


December 22nd, 2005



See the lady at the window to claim your prize.

Tony, that was a very gracious way to let that go.

Thank you.

[JohnGalt]

I haven't read all the posts.

Tell her to take some self defense classes imediatly. If she has no money, here are some tips

Hit as hard as you can in the
Throat,
Stomach(right below the ribs),
Groin
Nose

If she gets a chance, BITE as fracking hard as she can. I was once nearly beating the leaving day lights out of me. The guy could easily have killed me. He was at least 50lbs bigger and had an athletes/football player build.
I kicked him straight into the nuts, and then proceeded to kicked him in the throat as he bent over yelling at me "I'll f8cking get you!!!"

Run when you get the chance.

Get a restraining order, move to any relatives or friends house for a couple of weeks. If he keeps harrarsing, I would suggest take pictures of all the bruising and any medical damage. And if possible set up a cheap video camera. Next time this happens, he can be locked away.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

I haven't read all the posts.

Tell her to take some self defense classes imediatly. If she has no money, here are some tips

Hit as hard as you can in the
Throat,
Stomach(right below the ribs),
Groin
Nose

If she gets a chance, BITE as fracking hard as she can. I was once nearly beating the leaving day lights out of me. The guy could easily have killed me. He was at least 50lbs bigger and had an athletes/football player build.
I kicked him straight into the nuts, and then proceeded to kicked him in the throat as he bent over yelling at me "I'll f8cking get you!!!"

Run when you get the chance.

Get a restraining order, move to any relatives or friends house for a couple of weeks. If he keeps harrarsing, I would suggest take pictures of all the bruising and any medical damage. And if possible set up a cheap video camera. Next time this happens, he can be locked away.

John,

Your such a mutha######in bad ass and my personal hero. .Two things in a domestic violence situation if the police were called out and he (although) is the abuser normally had more wounds even defensive wounds they would then arrest her. I'm not advocating her not defending herself but you sounded like you were wanting her to go JetLi on him which would definately not help her situation at all.

Lastly I took martial arts for 8 yrs. in middle school and high school Shotokhan Karate and Teakwondo (sp). I would strongly suggest never punching or "knife hand striking" someone in their throat. The throat is very soft and if too much force is applied in the hit it can be crushed and the person can drown in their own blood. Then it's murder charges for you. There are far better tactics to disable some without the possibilty of death being an outcome!

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

The throat is very soft and if too much force is applied in the hit it can be crushed and the person can drown in their own blood.

Butyou can't deny it stops 'em in their tracks, LOL

[Kristie]

hey.. can we please watch the language a bit? is it really necessary to be that pointant?

[ScareBusA320]

Originally Posted by Kristie

hey.. can we please watch the language a bit? is it really necessary to be that pointant?

What language who is cursing?

[Mariano]

Originally Posted by ScareBusA320

What language who is cursing?

Classical..... ..... it's like in TV or movies, they'll censor the F word, but have no problem showing a dude with a machine gun shooting a shredding into pieces a whole bunch of fellow human beings.

I wonder when people in this country is going to realize that a "curse" word, a "wardrobe malfunction" or a naked body are not such an offense or corrupters.
But violence, talking about breaking other people's throats etc., really are offensive in nature.


I've been in these forums for almost two years, and never recall Kristie getting upset when somebody writes F&*K or S#$T, but I totally understand that she had to step up in this case.

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Tony, that was a very gracious way to let that go.

Thank you.

You're more than welcome. I am, after all, a nice guy.






.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Today at 7:45am I'm walking into Chase and who do I see getting dropped off in the front rotunda. Vernetta yep she is back to work today and who was dropping her off today at work Del Vagus.

When I saw him getting out of her SUV to switch places when she was being dropped off my jaw dropped. He quickly mad dogged me and got in the truck and drove off. Here first words to be were "Matt I don't even want to hear it."

She went on to explain that after spending a month living at her moms house outa fear that he would hurt her by breaking into her house. She finally moved back home around the first 2 weeks of Feburary. She said that one day she recieved a call from Del Vagus from a pay phone crying saying that he missed her. Apparently after she put him out in Januaray he had no where to go and was living on the street and part time in a crack house for 2-3 weeks.

He gave her a sob story about how sorry he was and how he realized what he had now and how he missed her so very much and that he hadn't eaten in almost a week and a half or longer. He said that if they had just one more chance he would try hard to make up for his mistakes and try to be the man she wants him to be.

So yup..she rolled down to the homeless shelter where he called from and apparently was staying for the interim. She said when we picked him up he looked horrible he was so skinny and smelled and was ungroomed she said they both had a good cry and she let him move back in the her house. It was then she claims that she realized that he was the only man for her and that she doesn't want to love anyone else or ever be without him again.

He has been back in the house for almost 2 1/2 weeks now. She claims that he is living up to his promise and is a changed man and hasn't raised his voice or his fist to her. She also says that she now realized that she was the cause of most or all of their past arguements and that she caused him to beat,cheat and hit on her because of her insecurites and that they are now trying to work through their differences and make it work as a couple and so far it is working possibily even going to couple therapy.

Oh...and as a post b-day present she told me she bought him a brand new 45 calibur handgun last week. I ##### you not! She says she bought it for him because he has a prior felony for assult and drug possession and he couldn't buy it himself. So needless to say no one is talking to her here at work and people are seperating themselves from her because of her supidity and selfishness. I know that I am finally done with her!!!

[MQAAord]

OMG those poor kids.

She's made her choice. Fine. Let him beat her up now, she's had the chance to break free. But those poor kids don't have a choice.

I've seen several "kids beaten by mom's boyfriend" news articles lately and it just breaks my heart.

[Kristie]

"he hadn't eaten in almost a week and a half or longer"

uhhh yeah.. how bout all those friends??? that would have been my first red flag!!

she made her bed....he'll for sure kill her now and she will have handed him the gun...

my GAWD, how stupid can you be? unreal...Max, ever think bout calling up CPS and getting those kids outta there? who knows if it wouldn't make it a worse situation, but there might be something in trying to save her children! there's no way to save the mom!

at this point, it is a wise move to stay clear because of the whole gun factor and if she starts questioning why - just come out and tell her why...apparently, she's not smart enough to figure it out for herself, might as well just come out and offend her straight up - maybe that might open her eyes? aww hell, who knows! I gots my own drama to take care of! haha

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Kristie

"he hadn't eaten in almost a week and a half or longer"

uhhh yeah.. how bout all those friends??? that would have been my first red flag!!

she made her bed....he'll for sure kill her now and she will have handed him the gun...

my GAWD, how stupid can you be? unreal...Max, ever think bout calling up CPS and getting those kids outta there? who knows if it wouldn't make it a worse situation, but there might be something in trying to save her children! there's no way to save the mom!

at this point, it is a wise move to stay clear because of the whole gun factor and if she starts questioning why - just come out and tell her why...apparently, she's not smart enough to figure it out for herself, might as well just come out and offend her straight up - maybe that might open her eyes? aww hell, who knows! I gots my own drama to take care of! haha

Thought about that Kristie yea...she has 5 kids but the older 3 kids are in middle school or late elementary school grades so they live with there father FT in Avondale during the school year so they could get a better education. Only her youngest two who are preschool age live at home with her and they can barely talk. She has told me time and again that he is excellent with them he only beats her and treats her like complete #####. So not sure if there is no history of violence towards the kids that CPS could or would get involved.

As for his friends. She gets off at 4pm today and she said he was going to be a lil late today because he out west hanging with his friend today because after a month and a half his friend finally was able to get his electricity turned back on. Apparently...his friend Rakim got busted because his power was turned off for non payment and he was getting/stealing his power from his neighbor via multi-socket outlets and large extension cords and got busted by APS when they came out to read the meter.

G-H-E-T-T-O!!!

[Kristie]

well, I suppose they (CPS) can't do anything until something happens...nothing preventative right?...sucks!