Abusive relationship

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

OK, her brother played the role of Big Bubba once, but did anybody call the cops? Until that is done, I wouldn't chill just yet. After that, if she still wants part of the relationship it's all hers but don't come crying to me. Some people actually like that sort of drama in their lives. Drama fiend, drama queen whatever you wanna call her.
In instances like this people seem blinded by that thing/drug called Love (as sick as that sounds). This sounds like a bad case of that ghetto-love LOL.
Her cousin needs to be checked on the reals. No way I'd sit by the wayside and let family, even a homie, get abused like that. So many folks allowing this to go on. Whoever has her contact info/adress/ whatever needs to call the cops or have somebody go down their to put in work on Vegas or Valley or whatever his name is.
Makes me wanna rock back and forth sayin Oh Lawd, Oh Lawd, Oh lawd.........

P.S. - I guess the 'it takes a village' idea has been long gone!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Cactus #1014 go round fly heading two-four-zero climb and maintain one-zero thousand direct Standsfield VORTAC expect further info at 15 past hour."

I gotta respectfully disagree with ya brah...She knows Del Vagus has a rap sheet. Furthermore she knows he is on probation for prior assult charges. If she really wanted dude gone she'd just call the police. He'd be in violation of his parole and would be a guest of the state in Florence.

Did she do that...has she done that nope! When I bring that to her attention she said.

"I can't do that to him Matt he could get some serious time."

"Well Vernetta has he hit you,choked you or worse?"

"Well yes."

"So you wouldn't be lying then...he has violated his parole."

"Matt I can't have that on my conscious. What happens when he gets out and comes looking for me."

"Would you really still be at the same place still..."

"Matt I like my house..."

Matthew walks away...(true conversation.)

So again calling the police would have no effect. Because for anything to happen to him she would have to be willing to press charges.

Right up to the end before her last day here before taking leave. She is sobbing hysterically saying "Matt he put a plastic bag over my head. I was screaming for him to stop. He started to choke me by holding my neck so I couldn't scream. But this morning he apoligized said he was sorry and that he is trying to work on his anger issues and that I need to be patient with him and that things will get better. I love him Matt and I hold out hope that things will get better between the two of us"

Get the point....

-Matthew

[GSMPilot]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

"Cactus #1014 go round fly heading two-four-zero climb and maintain one-zero thousand direct Standsfield VORTAC expect further info at 15 past hour."

I gotta respectfully disagree with ya brah...She knows Del Vagus has a rap sheet. Furthermore she knows he is on probation for prior assult charges. If she really wanted dude gone she'd just call the police. He'd be in violation of his parole and would be a guest of the state in Florence.

Did she do that...has she done that nope! When I bring that to her attention she said.

"I can't do that to him Matt he could get some serious time."

"Well Vernetta has he hit you,choked you or worse?"

"Well yes."

"So you wouldn't be lying then...he has violated his parole."

"Matt I can't have that on my conscious. What happens when he gets out and comes looking for me."

"Would you really still be at the same place still..."

"Matt I like my house..."

Matthew walks away...(true conversation.)

So again calling the police would have no effect. Because for anything to happen to him she would have to be willing to press charges.

Right up to the end before her last day here before taking leave. She is sobbing hysterically saying "Matt he put a plastic bag over my head. I was screaming for him to stop. He started to choke me by holding my neck so I couldn't scream. But this morning he apoligized said he was sorry and that he is trying to work on his anger issues and that I need to be patient with him and that things will get better. I love him Matt and I hold out hope that things will get better between the two of us"

Get the point....

-Matthew

There is no hope for anyone like that. I say your done Matt. No need to take it any further.

[Sprint100]

"So again calling the police would have no effect. Because for anything to happen to him she would have to be willing to press charges."

In Cali, if the cops are called on a domestic violence deal, that state will put charges on the defendant even if the plaintiff doesn't want to press charges. I thought it would be the same out here.

Personally if she brought this drama to me, I woulda called the cops just to let knucklehead know go through the drama of the whole thing. I can't stand dudes that whip up on women like that, so I woulda called just out of spite. If the DV laws aren't the same and I wasn't as anti-DV as I am, then I wouldn't call either. Instead, Big Bubba would be puttin in some work. As far as she goes, my homegirl would take her out shopping to distract her while Bubba did the do on that fool.

[Kristie]

I don't think it works that way here in AZ...

but could your spite call possibly put her in the hospital at some later date or make things worse?

i don't see how violence begets violence and therefore makes it all better????

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by Kristie

but could your spite call possibly put her in the hospital at some later date or make things worse?

That's why you have to make sure Bubba is somewhat of a professional and/or has put in work before. Believe me they don't come back.

Originally Posted by Kristie

i don't see how violence begets violence and therefore makes it all better????

Sometimes it is a last resort that works wonders when done right!!!!!!!!!

[Maximillian_Jenius]

In AZ as far as I know the police are going to check to see who has the most signifigant damage. They will look for defensive wounds,cuts and the such.
They will listen and companre stories collect facts and the person with the least amount of wounds is going to jail. If the wounds are so signifigant and the spouse doesn't want to press charges the police can take the other to jail.
I caution you though. Vernetta never came into work with any visible marks or wounds. So calling the police in her matter wouldn't work. Furthermore if the police were called on my part and she failed to press charges and the police felt so inclined and didn't sense any kinda impending danger they *could* arrest me for filing a false police report!

-Matthew

[TonyC]

Perhaps I was misled. I was uner the impression, Jenius, that you wanted advice. Apparently, you only wanted drama.

Well, I took the time to revisit the first post, and then tried to figure out where I went wrong. As a refresher, here's that first post, and I've taken the liberty of highlighting a few pertinent phrases.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Hey...just wanted to get some quick advice from peeps in this forum. A friend of mine here at work confided in me couple of weeks ago that she is involved in a domestic violence situation with her current live in boyfriend.
After weeks of arguing and mental abuse and some "light" physical violence as she said. She was fed up and finally put him out this weekend.

Well she just told me that last night after work she came home to a dark house. And as soon as she walked in the door he was there choking her and punching her. He dragged her in to her room and preceeded to continue hititng her.

Then preceeded to sufficate her with a plastic bag. As she said he did it to show her what it feels like to be helpless.

This guy is a total loser. He is 25 and has no job no money and lives up at her house rent free. Drives her car around all day while she is at work and doesn't fill up the tank and hits her for not filling up the tank.
He has completely has taken over her life and her house.

As is normally the case this isn't her first time with a violent abusive lover. Her "baby daddy" was violent to her as well when they were married. She of course thought to call the police but she lives in south PHX which to the uninformed is the ghetto of Phoenix. When she was going through her stuff with her ex-husband she called the police on him several times and each time they got there 2-3 hours later.

So she is worried that if he goes through with his many threats and beat her again. As she said maybe next time to the death. If she calls the police it won't matter since they won't arrive till 2-3 hours later and she and her children could be dead by then.

She is so scared and says she has no one to talk to. She says that she is just going to deal with him living there out of fear that he will hurt/kill her or her children and hope that one day soon he will just leave.

I told her he won't. Any any advice that I could give her?

-Matthew

OK, so I really think I was misled. You composed this post to make us believe the woman is in an abusive relationship, and that her life is threatened. Then, when you recieved sound advice as to how to deal with what you know, you refuse it at every point in favor of adding to the drama.

Clearly, you either lied in the first post, or you have no desire to help the woman. Spare us any more drama. As the old saying goes, either poop or get off the pot.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

ass [ ass ] (plural ass·es)

noun Definitions: 1. animal resembling horse with long ears: an animal resembling a small horse with long ears, sometimes used as a beast of burden. The donkey is a domesticated descendant of the wild ass. Genus Equus.

2. offensive term: an offensive term that deliberately insults somebody's intelligence, consideration for others, or general value ( slang insult )


Hey Tony...let me know please which one of these definations best befits you.

Your colorful use of adjectives was un called for IMO.

Moron, ass, and jackass are nouns. (Refer to the definition you just copied/pasted.) They're not adjectives, or colorful adjectives, or even a colorful use of adjectives. I believe that we have been exceptionally patient with you through this thread, and you've earned the label I assigned you. It's obvious now that you have no real concern for the health and the safety of the woman and her children. It was my hope that being blunt might get the message across, but I was obviously mistaken. It's too bad that the woman doesn't have a true friend.




.

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

... if the police were called on my part and she failed to press charges and the police felt so inclined and didn't sense any kinda impending danger they *could* arrest me for filing a false police report!

Just tell them what you told us in Post #1 - - unless that was a lie.








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[bunghole]

Listen

This is not a situation where advice from you should be given to a sick mother. Its apparent the children that live in her house are in danger as well Its your moral obligation to call the police immediately as n 'NOW' and explain what you know. This at least would get the children removed from this horrific situation. No more time should we wasted on posting the details of her perverted lifestyle that physically and mentally threatens her children.

Do the right thing and call!

[pullup]

Who votes for "Do nothing and say 'I'm sorry' to her at her funeral?"


Well, I'm outta ideas on how to help this woman. Good luck

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Tony for you to insinuate that out of some sick pathetic need for attention I created a fictious person and situation for the soul purpose of my own entertainment is both sickning and utterly reprehensible.

How dare you say the things that you did about myself and my character when in fact you know absolutely nothing about me. I am a member in good standing of this board and not only can Doug & Kristie personally vouch my character so can several other member on this board who have had the unique pleasure of meeting me in person.

I personally think that you owe me an apoligy. You can choose to do that or not it's up to you. Another thing I simply will not allow you to do is to assume that I did absolutely nothing for Vernetta.

I listened to her gave her advice,offered her assistance.Offered to help her get in touch with a domestic violence councelors. I counceled her on how to be assertive,demand respect and regain her own personal power and assert herself in her current situation.

I spoke to my mother a licensed psychologist with a PH.D in education to get advice on how to help her. I gave her numbers to the nearest shelter. Offered to go to court with her if she got the restraining order and be either a witness or just be there to support her in the proceedings.

She choose on all fronts to not only ignore my offer of assitance but that of her own family and her dearest friends. Yet you accuse me of not supporting her and not being a true friend. Bull#####!!!

This started in July and I was there from the beginning. Where were you? I listened to what each and everyone of you had to say. I appreciate all the advice you have offered me in this situation. But just because you offered the advice I am by no means contractully bound or obligated to take it.

Have you Tony ever heard of words called boundries,enabler or co-dependent. You simply no matter what the case can't help someone that is simply unable or unwilling to help themselves first. Help has been offered. She refused yet you assume to make me out to be the bad guy in this situation? Have you ever heard of "Battered Women's Syndrome?" Vernetta is suffering from a classic case of it. Alienating any and all people who cares for her to protect the guy who is abusing her.

There is little or no difference between alcholism,chemical depenency or battered womens syndrome. All are in a desperate and dire situation that if not helped could result in their death. Yes an intervention is necessary but first the individual must first realize they have a problem and geniuely ask and want help. Without the person admitting that there is a problem and that they need help situation will only continue to get worse.

My mother has worked with many abused women. She informed me that situations such as this can indeed be tricky.But she was quick to remind me of my personal boundries and not to be an enabler to Vernetta.

Let me put this in an example that even you might possibly begin to understand.

Your son wants to be a pilot. "He says dad I want to be a pilot and attend XYZ flight academy tution cost $54k." You love your son and want him to suceed in life so you give him the $54k. He attends XYZ flight school and gives it half ass attention. He barely studies, stays out late partying with his friends and fails flight school. Having blown all your $54k that you gave him.
After failing flight school he is kicked out and comes home and lives with you and his behavior is unchanged if not worse. Then one day he comes to you and says dad I want to go to flight school again.This time will be different I promise. Will you loan me $54k again please?

Do you say yes...? And blindly give him the $54k. Hoping and praying that he has changed and that his words are indeed true? Or do you say. If you want to go to flight school,you will get a job and keep it, you will save your money. You will go back to school you, will show me that your serious. You will get good grades. Then when you proved to me that your serious this time with more then just empty words. Whatever ammount of money you have saved I will match or double it.

If your smart you will want to first see that your son is serious. After all $54k is a lot of money. Only if your a fool will you give him $54k again after not demonstrating a behavior pattern proving that his intent is true.

-Matthew

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Tony for you to insinuate that out of some sick pathetic need for attention I created a fictious person and situation for the soul purpose of my own entertainment is both sickning and utterly reprehensible.

How dare you say the things that you did about myself and my character when in fact you know absolutely nothing about me. I am a member in good standing of this board and not only can Doug & Kristie personally vouch my character so can several other member on this board who have had the unique pleasure of meeting me in person.

I personally think that you owe me an apoligy. You can choose to do that or not it's up to you.

Max, this thread has nothing to do with you.. this is about her.. it's about her kids.. it's about the question you asked all of us for advice...

forget about yourself for just a split second and think past yourself to what the thread continues to be about.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Kristie

Max, this thread has nothing to do with you.. this is about her.. it's about her kids.. it's about the question you asked all of us for advice...

forget about yourself for just a split second and think past yourself to what the thread continues to be about.

Yes I understand that. But Tony is on a roll first attacking R2F now me. Saying that I created this thread to somehow satisy a sick deep dark desire for attention and drama.

So it kinda became about me (partly) with his insults and the constant insinuations that I have done nothing but sit back and allow this great injustice to continue.
Or that I have not taken anyones advice.
Whatever I can deal with it. What Tony and perhaps others are failing to see and understand is that I took the advice that was given here and have been greatful for it. I offered it to her and it was ignored by Vernetta what more can I do?

Yet the constant over all theme going on here is that I'm an ass. I will say again. You can't help someone who doesn't want help.
She (Vernetta) is more concerened with who her man is out effing while she is out at work then that of the safety of her or her own children.

She beat her brother up with a phone book. Stopped her cousin from helping her out of this situation. Calling the cops won't help. Because she isn't willing to press charges or leave Del Vagus.

She says he is an ass about 90% of the time and she waits,waits for that rare 10 percent of the time when he is civil to her. She thinks...hopes that she can change him and the situation will get better.

Everyone at work that is aware of her situation from her supervisor our department head and HR is concerned for her welfare.

Besides myself three of her other friends from work have been calling her trying desperately to reach her. Leaving messages on her voicemail with no reply.
Then today, Subrina a co-worker who herself is a domestic violence survivor tried to call her and her number has now been changed.

Anita her cousin has filed a police report.
The officer who took the report Anita told me said that they will investigate her claims. But that no crime has been commited and our words are mere hear say. The burden of truth lies with her.

In most cases the officer said (as I have said) the abused typically refuse to press charges against her abuser. Without any physical wounds or bruising they can only go on her (Vernetta's) word.
And her propensity to lie,cover up and make excuses for his action is blatently apparent.


-Matthew

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by bunghole

Listen

This is not a situation where advice from you should be given to a sick mother. Its apparent the children that live in her house are in danger as well Its your moral obligation to call the police immediately as n 'NOW' and explain what you know. This at least would get the children removed from this horrific situation. No more time should we wasted on posting the details of her perverted lifestyle that physically and mentally threatens her children.

Do the right thing and call!

Wrong...my sister graduates from UofA this fall with a degree in social work. My cousin who lives in Concorde CA. has a MSW (Masters of Socialwork) and works in the field with abused children.

Haven't talked to Pam but my sister said without substantial proof /evidence of child endagerment the children simply will not be removed.
Removing children from a house is the very last measures taken in situations such as these. The first step would be offering counciling assistance to the mother and trying to find avenues for her to seek help. There are steps and procedures to follow first. Only with a proven track record and a continuing escalation of danger/neglect to a child's welfare will the children become temporary wards of the state.

A social workers first and most important duty is to keep a family together not split them apart!

-Matthew

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Tony for you to insinuate that out of some sick pathetic need for attention I created a fictious person and situation for the soul purpose of my own entertainment is both sickning and utterly reprehensible.

What is sickening is that you refuse to take action to responsibly address the problems you described in Post #1.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

How dare you say the things that you did about myself and my character when in fact you know absolutely nothing about me. I am a member in good standing of this board and not only can Doug & Kristie personally vouch my character so can several other member on this board who have had the unique pleasure of meeting me in person.

I suppose it's my great loss that I've not had that unique "pleasure." But you know what, Jenius, it's not about you. It's about a woman and her children, and the bodily harm that threatens them. If they are not in harm's way, you lied to us in Post #1.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

I personally think that you owe me an apoligy. You can choose to do that or not it's up to you. Another thing I simply will not allow you to do is to assume that I did absolutely nothing for Vernetta.

I don't owe you an apoligy, whatever that is, or even an apology. I, along with several other members, have been patient and helpful. Your character witness, Kristie, has also offered advice that you ignored. I resorted to a more blunt approach in an attempt to get your attention. Clearly, that approach also failed. However, I do not regret taking that approach, nor will I apologize for doing it.

You did something for her, alright, and I'll address that below.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

I listened to her gave her advice,offered her assistance.Offered to help her get in touch with a domestic violence councelors. I counceled her on how to be assertive,demand respect and regain her own personal power and assert herself in her current situation.

I spoke to my mother a licensed psychologist with a PH.D in education to get advice on how to help her. I gave her numbers to the nearest shelter. Offered to go to court with her if she got the restraining order and be either a witness or just be there to support her in the proceedings.

She choose on all fronts to not only ignore my offer of assitance but that of her own family and her dearest friends. Yet you accuse me of not supporting her and not being a true friend. Bull#####!!!

This started in July and I was there from the beginning. Where were you? I listened to what each and everyone of you had to say. I appreciate all the advice you have offered me in this situation. But just because you offered the advice I am by no means contractully bound or obligated to take it.

Have you Tony ever heard of words called boundries,enabler or co-dependent.

Funny you should ask that, Jenius. Yes, I've heard of those words. Wanna guess which one describes you? By allowing her to drag you along and listen to your "counsel," you have become an enabler. You are feeding into her sickness, and not actually helping her. A true friend would do what is good for her, despite her protests to the contrary. It's so easy to pick up the phone and dial 911, but you refuse. You are a participant in the drama.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

You simply no matter what the case can't help someone that is simply unable or unwilling to help themselves first. Help has been offered.

Did you even read the first post you wrote? The woman and her children, if you accurately describe their situation, don't just need help, they need a rescue. 911

She doesn't need your advice, she doesn't need your ear, she doesn't need your momma's degree, she needs to be rescued.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Let me put this in an example that even you might possibly begin to understand.

Your son wants to be a pilot. "He says dad I want to be a pilot and attend XYZ flight academy tution cost $54k." You love your son and want him to suceed in life so you give him the $54k.

NOPE. Already wrong. Son already knows that what he wants in life, he'll have to work for. The preferred method is to study hard, get good grades, and earn scholarships. The next method is get a job and earn the money. He already knows I'm not paying his way. No free rides.

That's because I love my kids, and I want them to succeed in life.

Sorry to screw up your story.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Yes I understand that. But Tony is on a roll first attacking R2F now me. Saying that I created this thread to somehow satisy a sick deep dark desire for attention and drama.

I did not attack ready2fly, and I did not attack you. I made several posts patiently offering you advice. With each post where it appeared you were unwilling to follow the advice of the majority of contributors to this thread, I became more stern. Even at my sternest, I did not use the word "ass" or "jackass" -- you interjected that, and made the comparison to ready2fly's attack on me.

My suggestion that you have misrepresented the situation is simply an analysis, a possible explanation for why you refuse to take anyone's advice. Either you're being stubborn and stupid, or it's not really as bad as you first post described.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Yet the constant over all theme going on here is that I'm an ass.

Let's be clear here. I did not call you an ass. Because of your refusal to heed advice given to you by practically every contributor to this thread, I called you a moron.

Please, convince us you're not. I'll be happy to retract the comment when you demonstrate you don't deserve it.

Alas, it appears that nothing will persuade you to do the right thing. I can only take comfort that I don't receive any Phoenix newspapers, and will likely not read about the woman's death.

You won't enjoy that comfort, now, will you?





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[Maximillian_Jenius]

...Okay dude. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? You must be the type to quit your job to stay home to "police" your child or loved one if (hypothetically) they were to ever become a crack head.

Don't take offense at this hypothetical situation. But would you let a family member on drugs stay in your house. Would you mortgage your house or sell all your valuables to get money to pay off a loved ones debt if they had a gambling problem? These are forms of enabling.

Originally Posted by TonyC

By allowing her to drag you along and listen to your "counsel",you have become an enabler. Your feeding into her sickness,and not actually helping her.

On that point we can agree. Which is why I stopped giving advice.Washed my hands of the situation and feel my conscious is clear.

You can only talk so long to someone, you can suggest that they seek help talk to them about counseling. But if their an adult you can't forcibly hospitalize them,just as I can't forcibly remove Vernetta or her children from this situation. Ultimately the only person that can seek to turn around their situation is the person with the problem.

That I guess is what people are failing to understand. The police have been called. A report has been filed. But has anything changed is anything any different? Is she and her children still in harms way...yes! Did calling the police and filing a report do anything at all to change her or her childrens situation...sadly no.

So instead of focusing on a calling the police which again had no effect. I wanted to educate a women who felt that she had no options on how to get out of her situation. Let her know that she does indeed have power and could regain that power and be a victim no longer. Because it is ultimately her who has the real power to end this sick affair, when she gets sick & tired enough she will end this situation and leave him and seek shelter from her troubles not the police.

Did that have a profound affect on the situation. Sadly I would have to say no also. So I give up and wash my hands of the entire situation in utter frustration.

Originally Posted by TonyC

A true friend would do what is good for her, despite her protest to the contrary.

Being a friend a real friend does not mean that you allow people to take advantage of you or your friendship. Being a friend is knowing your own personal boundries and knowing when someone has crossed them. Letting them know that if they choose to continue to go down that road because of their own personal choices that you won't follow. It's called tuff love.

Again he has hit her attempted suffication and choked her. He has a prior criminal record and a history of violence. What I think all are failing to hear is that she is unwilling to leave him. It would be so very easy for her call the police herself and have him arrested for parole violation. Yet he is still there.

Originally Posted by TonyC

She doesn't need your advice,she doesn't need your ear,she doesn't need your momma's degree,she needs to be rescued.

After reading that I can tell that you have never done any kind of counciling or crisis management. No one can be "rescued" that doesn't want to be helped first. Furthermore no one should be rescued a rescuer is nothing but a person who continues to enable the person who has the problem. A person who wants help not rescue must first ask for it and follow through with the steps to get aid for their problem.
To continue to try to assist someone that doesn't want to be helped is called enabling and being co-depenedent.

As harsh as it sounds there is only so much that you can do before you have to raise your hands to the sky and say I'M DONE. I have done all that I could. She has continuely refused aid from both family and friends. Next you will say that we her family and friends should sneak into her house under cover of darkness and forcibly remove her from the situation.

At what point would you stop,step back and access the situation and let go.

Furthermore Tony who are you to question the advice of a trained professional. You have no PH.D your not properly trained in matters of addiction,interventions or crisis management. For that matter niether am I. This is akin to the the a.net guys aruging flight characteristic of a 757 with a trained pilot,because they performed the similar approach on MSFS. I address this as you say the advice given to me by my mother does little to help Vernetta situation.

I just wish that someone could see all my points that I have made not only in this post but others to maybe begin to understand that no matter what I do or say no ammount of assitance will help this lady if she first doesn't admit that A.) She has a problem that is beyond her means to control. B.) Honestly ask and seek aid and education to escape the grasp of this sick and potentially dangerous situation. That she continually keeps herself in.


-Matthew

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

No one can be "rescued" that doesn't want to be helped first

Contrair monfrair, people not wanting help get it against their wishes all the time. I don't have the exact statistic but some finally see the light after they've been "rescued".

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Sprint100

Contrair monfrair, people not wanting help get it against their wishes all the time. I don't have the exact statistic but some finally see the light after they've been "rescued".

Thats not a rescue that's a forced intervention!

-Matthew

[Sprint100]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Thats not a rescue that's a forced intervention!

-Matthew

Then you are fully aware

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

...Okay dude. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? You must be the type to quit your job to stay home to "police" your child or loved one if (hypothetically) they were to ever become a crack head.

What in heaven's name are you talking about?!?! What gave you the idea that personal responsibility was being abdicated? Why do you keep referring to crack? Can you maintain a cogent train of thought?

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Don't take offense at this hypothetical situation. But would you let a family member on drugs stay in your house. Would you mortgage your house or sell all your valuables to get money to pay off a loved ones debt if they had a gambling problem? These are forms of enabling.

NO, and NO. What's your point?

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

You can only talk so long to someone, you can suggest that they seek help talk to them about counseling. But if their an adult you can't forcibly hospitalize them,just as I can't forcibly remove Vernetta or her children from this situation. Ultimately the only person that can seek to turn around their situation is the person with the problem.

Nobody has asked you to forcibly hospitalize anyone, nobody has suggested you forcibly remove anyone. We've only asked you to do something a normal five-year-old can do -- pick up the telephone and press 9, 1, and 1.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

That I guess is what people are failing to understand. The police have been called. A report has been filed.

If people fail to understand this, it's because you have failed to mention it. Nowhere have you mentioned that someone has called the police. You said she was beaten, strangled, and suffocated, but not once mentioned the police.


Can you keep your story straight, please?

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

I wanted to educate a women who felt that she had no options on how to get out of her situation. Let her know that she does indeed have power and could regain that power and be a victim no longer. Because it is ultimately her who has the real power to end this sick affair, when she gets sick & tired enough she will end this situation and leave him and seek shelter from her troubles not the police.

You educate her, huh? Can you tell us, again, what your professional credentials are?

We can only pray that she'll come to that point before she expires, because you're certainly not going to help her escape sooner.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

So I give up and wash my hands of the entire situation in utter frustration.

Sadly, there is no need for you to be frustrated. You've been given simple and specific actions that you can take that WILL help, yet you refuse to listen and act. Shall we help you dig that ostrich hole?

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Being a friend a real friend does not mean that you allow people to take advantage of you or your friendship. Being a friend is knowing your own personal boundries and knowing when someone has crossed them. Letting them know that if they choose to continue to go down that road because of their own personal choices that you won't follow. It's called tuff love.

You call this tough love? You won't listen to me, so I'm washing my hands - - that's "tuff" love. That is not love, it is selfishness. Rather than stick your neck out to help a woman who is clearly in danger, you're willing to forget about her and let the heinous nature of the boyfriend takes its course. Yeah, that's really tough, Jenius.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Again he has hit her attempted suffication and choked her. He has a prior criminal record and a history of violence. What I think all are failing to hear is that she is unwilling to leave him. It would be so very easy for her call the police herself and have him arrested for parole violation. Yet he is still there.

Idiot! If she were of sound mind and clear vision, she wouldn't be where she is, and that's EXACTLY why she needs a friend to make the call FOR her. "It would be so very easy," you say, "for her to call the police." Well, of course it's easy - - that's what we've been telling you for days. Why do you insist it's NOT easy, or it WON'T be effective, or YOU'RE not the one that should do it.

She obviously cannot make a sound decision on her own - - there's no need to argue the why's and wherefore's, because you already know she's screwed up. Waiting for her to suddenly come to her senses and make a smart judgment is like waiting for a baby to climb back in her crib. It ain't happnin'! SHE NEEEDS SOMEONE TO CALL THE POLICE FOR HER.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

After reading that I can tell that you have never done any kind of counciling or crisis management. No one can be "rescued" that doesn't want to be helped first.

Wrong.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Furthermore no one should be rescued a rescuer is nothing but a person who continues to enable the person who has the problem.

Tell the police that they're enabling her self-beating when they go to her house and find the bruises and marks on her cheek and neck.

I can't believe the psychobabble that you're... no, wait... I can believe it, and perhaps I'm gaining a deeper insight in to whay you're unable to help your "friend."

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

A person who wants help not rescue must first ask for it and follow through with the steps to get aid for their problem.
To continue to try to assist someone that doesn't want to be helped is called enabling and being co-depenedent.

more psychobabble

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

As harsh as it sounds there is only so much that you can do before you have to raise your hands to the sky and say I'M DONE. I have done all that I could.

No, you have not. You have yet to do the simplest, yet most important thing. Dial 9 - 1 - 1

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

She has continuely refused aid from both family and friends. Next you will say that we her family and friends should sneak into her house under cover of darkness and forcibly remove her from the situation.

Are you daft?!?!? How much clearer can my advice be??!?!?

AGAIN - - do this:


DIAL 9 1 1

I already even told you what to say. You only have to fill in a few blanks - - her name, her cell phone number, and her place of employment. Leave the rest to the professionals.

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

At what point would you stop,step back and access the situation and let go.

Right after I called 9 - 1 - 1

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Furtherm