Need some serious advice...

[EatSleepFly]

I need some advice from those of you kind enough to read my post.

My youngest brother is 16 years old. He's making some really dumb decisions and has been getting into trouble for the past two years or so. He smokes like a chimney, he's into a lot of drugs and alcohol, owes people money, and has gotten in so much trouble in school that he has to finish out the year with a tutor off of school grounds. In fact, he probably won't even go next year, because it doesn't look like he's going to make it through this year. He has yet to get in any serious trouble with the law, but it's only a matter of time. I'm in awe that he hasn't yet.

Whenever he has acted up at school, they've just suspended him. The system is so screwed up that once he gets to a certain point in the discipline system, he gets "out of school" suspension (as opposed to "in school" which is a little lower on the scale where they make him sit in one room and do work all day without contact with other kids). So basically, this just gives him vacation. What kind of incentive is that for him to do what he's supposed to? I find this utterly rediculous, and personally think that the school (among other things) is partially to blame for his downward spiral. They just don't seem to give a hoot. My parents can't really afford to send him to a private school, and I don't even know if that kind of thing would even be possible if they could.

Some background info...

My parents are divorced. I'm not sure if this situation can be blamed on that or not, because three of the four of us turned out just fine. I'm "living the dream" (haha...), my next youngest brother is nearing completion of his criminal justice degree with plans to go into law enforcement, and my third brother is going into the military after he graduates this summer.

As for the problem child, my mom has tried repeatedly to take him to doctors, counselors, drug tests, etc. He just won't go, and my poor little mom can't physically make him. My dad really can't either for that matter. They are afraid of him, and I suppose it's a rational fear. He's nuts.

Both of my parents work long days. He lives with my dad, but with dad gone most of the day, he's basically free to do as he pleases. The rest of my dad's side of the family all lives in the same area, but they are afraid to do/say anything to my dad or offer to help out because my dad has made it pretty clear that he doesn't want them involved, for their sake and maybe even safety. My uncle is a probation officer who deals with this kind of thing all the time, but he won't sacrafice his relationship with his brother to straighten out his nephew...and rightfully so. I haven't lived in the area in years, and my other brother is in college thats kind of far away so there's not much we can do. My third brother is a senior in high school there, but works a lot, is a good kid, and really can't be expected to get involved with the situation, although he's tried to help some, to no avail (we all have at various points).

So, he's basically ruining our entire family. My mom is pretty depressed because on top of all this, she works two jobs and her house had a fire a few weeks ago (she was OK physically). My dad is depressed too. He hides it better, but I can tell when I talk to him on the phone that he's not the dad I once knew. It's wearing on all of us. My family is well known and respected in the community they live in, but my brother is really bringing everyone down. I feel really bad for all involved. My grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins are saints, and I really hate to see them suffering because of my brother's thoughtless acts. Part of me wishes that he would just get thrown in jail or hurry up and get himself killed already.

So, is there anything that can be done? What would you do if he were your kid (be serious please, I know what I'd like to do too, but can't). It really just tears me up to see him hurting my family like this and I'm just looking for opinions I guess on things that I or they could do to improve the situation. My brother and I have tried talking to him, but my cat listens better and that's not saying much.

Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated. I'll provide more details if needed. I know it's kind of a personal topic, but at this point, there isn't much to lose. I even posted this on flightinfo....at the risk of getting flamed to a smoking crisp.

Thanks in advance!

[MQAAord]

Military school or a boot camp of some sort is what I would do if this were one of my kids. If it has progressed to such a point as you describe, no actions your family has taken has had any effect and it's time for something radical and new.

Removal from his current 'life situation' and put in an environment of strict discipline could turn him around.

I really have no idea how much military school or boot camp costs, but if there's any way to make it happen, that's my suggestion.

[kellwolf]

Wow. Tough situation. You're right about the school system. I've always thought it was an ostrich technique of out of sight, out of mind that didn't really work. I never understood out of school suspension. I mean, it's obvious the kids don't want to be there, and this is their "punishment?"

It sounds like he either thinks he won't really get in trouble for his actions or, worse, doesn't care. My wife's parents went through something similar with her older brother when he was in high school. Eventually, he got arrested for possession. Their decesion was NOT to bail him out, but to leave him in jail to face the consequences of his actions. Granted this was the 80s, and jails were probably a bit better then.

I think it might be better to try to convince your dad that he should get some help on this. It's tearing your family apart, so it affects more than just him.

[Coney]

Hi, Marshall. I don't yet have a 16 year old child, but I was 16 once. In retrospect, I think what kept me from behaving like your brother was the presence of clear boundaries set forth by my parents. There were swift and distinct consequences for breaking those boundaries. Here's the key: Kids need to be scared of the consequences. Every kid is different, so some kids require heavier punishment than others. Nonetheless, kids needs to fear them, because that's what keeps them from getting into trouble. It sounds like the consequences for your brother were never in place, or they weren't really scary; therefore, he's doing whatever he wants because doesn't really have anything to lose. He's running the show and driving your family crazy in the process.

At this stage, however, your younger brother probably needs a VERY structured environment with NO bending on the rules. He needs strict boundaries, and he needs to scared of the consequences. The best people in the world to supply this would be your parents. If they are unable, then military school or something similar may be the remedy. So, I agree with MQAAord in that regard.

Good luck, man!!

[Silverhawk]

Hey Marshall...

Find a good Recruiter a little low in his numbers for the month ... Just kidding !!

I would tend to agree with what everyone is saying thus far in regards to needing a more clear cut consequence to your brother's actions. We were all 16 once but I think .. well at least in my case.. there were more strict consequences back in the day.. even just knowing what may happen if I get caught sometimes was enough persuasion to keep things together.

As mentioned private schools can be expensive and may not be an option.. I'm not sure how military schools rate in terms of costs etc... but with both maybe taking the initiative as brothers to maybe speak to the schools to see what kind of financial arrangements can be made.. ya never loose just by asking questions !!

You can tell it's definately wearing on all of you guys and you hate to see it happening but keep on his case in the meantime even though it can be quite a pain in the butt. Like you said you're not exactly sure what combination of events really triggered his behavior so hopefully if you keep at it until something is worked out maybe you'll catch his attention before reality sets in and he is knee deep in trouble or even another school..


Hope everything works out for ya !!

[naunga]

Well, I don't have any kids, but I do have a troubled / PITA sister-in-law...and I had my own problems.

For what it's worth no amount of money in the world is going to fix his problems.

Two things need to happen 1) he needs to figure out what the root of his problem is, and 2) he needs to know that there are people around him who care.

If your folks were anything like mine he probably hears, "what is your problem" quite a bit. The problem is that he doesn't know. At least not on a superficial level, and he probably meets that question with a lot of shrugging and "I don't knows".

Would boot camp help? Maybe, but people spend so much time looking for external solutions to our problems that we sometimes forget that problems like this are mostly internal.

So...what can you do.

If I were in your shoes I'd figure out how he can have it out with your family in a safe environment. Meaning everyone can say what they need to say and not worry about reprecussions. He may have issues with your parents divorcing. Especially if he can remember what it was like before the divorce.

Of course a lot of people overlook very simple things. Has your brother ever been tested for any kind of learning disability like dislexia? A lot of kids have real learning issues, but never get help and consquently get very, very frustrated and eventually act out. The kid gets in trouble at school and kicked out and in the end the people who are supposed to help him end up hurting him.

I will tell you right now, do everything you can to impress upon him that getting in trouble with the law is a very, very, unimaginally bad idea. Legal problems even as a juvenille, no matter what lawyers tell you, will haunt him forever in one way or another. So short of chaining him in your basement (which might not be a bad idea), try to get him to see that legal problems = REALLY BAD (I know, duh, right, but 16 year olds can't even imagine themselves being 17, so...)

One final thing. I've discovered with my sis-in-law that you all (mom, dad, you, brother) need to realize that family problems are the ENTIRE family's problem. So any type of counseling should include the whole family, and that's not a nice thing to hear, but it's true.

Were I in your place, I'd sit my brother down and just let him talk. Talk about what he hates about me, mom, dad, life, the universe, and everything. I'd try not to ask him what his problem is, I'd not judge him at all, and just lend him my ear and my shoulder.

I wish you well and good luck.

Naunga

[Swen]

All that I can get out of this now is that you are willing to be the guy he comes to when he decides this life he is leading is not the life he wants. Make sure that he knows you're there for him.

There is a guy in one of my classes that was a dealer and got caught. It took him ten years in prison to decide to change his life. Prison worked for him, but not many others. With that said, when your brother wakes up, he'll need someone to be there to jumpstart his life again.

Hold on tight.

[FutureAviator]

[ QUOTE ]
Military school or a boot camp of some sort is what I would do if this were one of my kids. If it has progressed to such a point as you describe, no actions your family has taken has had any effect and it's time for something radical and new.



[/ QUOTE ]
I saw a jerry springer eposide, where former Marines drill sergeant displined naughty teens and turned them into good citizens.

http://www.bootcampsforteens.com/ I think this should help your brother

[EatSleepFly]

Just getting around to reading some of the responses here. I appreciate everyone's input. There is a program that I think my parents are going to try that is similar to probation, but it doesn't give him a criminal record. It's a "voluntary" (I put it in quotes, because he's being volunteered, lol) thing. He'll have to take drug tests, stay clean, behave, and report to a handler I guess. I don't know many of the details, but my mom was telling me about it, and she sounded fairly optimistic. Hopefully it will work out for the best. Thanks again for all of your advice and input and keep it coming if you've got some, it's much appreciated!

[Kristie]

I think my brother finally wised up when he was put in jail and we all left him in there for 2 nights (it was a weekend)...then on monday morning, he went to his hearing, lost his ID (DUI charge) for a year and had to do 60 hrs of community work... I think having my dad drive him around for a year really kicked his butt into shape!

but for years, my brother was a little hellion.. if he didn't get what he wanted, he'd bitch and then take it anyways...he got into the drinking a little too much along with smoking and staying out too late and it went downhill from there for a while until life smacked him in the face...

if you can avoid having life smack him first, then that'd be really great!! but keep in mind that even if you put him in a volunteer program like that, it might not do the trick and life just might HAVE TO smack him first!

[Debi]

This is my first real post here, hehe...

I am 18, and I went through a very similar thing when I was 15/16, minus the drugs. I was very depressed, and I could not get up and go to school, so my parents took me to court, I dropped out of school, everyone hated each other, it was a huge mess. I am not a bad kid, and I'm pretty smart, but depression and anxiety can do terrible things to you. My probation officer was pushing to send me to a detention center or a foster home, and my free court appointed lawyer was doing nothing. Finally, a judge stepped up and said that I needed mental help, not disciplinary help. So, I stayed home, started working full time, fell in love, and everything worked itself out. I started high school again last year, at a special charter school specifically for people who have dropped out and need a second chance.

The point of my story (yes, I have a point, I promise) is that I think your brother probably has some mental issues that are preventing him from being the person he normally would be, and he is turning to drugs for comfort. That's a very common thing for kids with depression. I think that instead of sending him away, bring hom closer. Do fun things together, and let him know that you and your family will love him no matter what, and that you're there for him; you're on his side. I'll bet he feels like everyone hates him, and that will not help anyone.

I'm sorry for my ranting, but it's a subject very close to my heart. I'm sure it will all be alright, but you just can't give up on him! Good luck.

[lilith]

EATSLEEPFLY,

I saw your post just now.and knew I had to write this.....Iam a mom of 1 he's only 3 years old so I don't come to you with much "mom" expierience. I come to you from the point of view from the troubled kid side.

I was always the rebellious one.crazy and wild.and always in lots of trouble.........the MORE Restricted. the MORE I rebelled the MORE they disaplined the MORE I disobeyed......I went out with every long haired freaky guy I could find just to tick them off.

IT WAS A WAR. A war not because they said white and I said black.

I was at war for being myself.as a individule. I didn't want advice.I didn't want to "become" my parents. I wanted to be my own person making my own decisions (weather they be wrong or right) and I wanted to live life, see it, taste it, expierience it. I fought hard. They faught hard.
And I remember screaming at them once, "you don't even know who Iam"!

AHHHHhhhh the youth.I now understand the phrase "youth is wasted on the young"
anyway what Iam saying is because of my tramatizing youth years (to me and my parents) my biggest fear is KARMA now that Iam a mom Im sure it's gonna come back and bite me in the BUTT. OUr son is just like me i can see it already..SO i have thought and thought about how Iam to approach life lessons with him. Maybe this will help.

youth cannot invision the consequences of thier actions may cause long term effects on thier life because they CANNOT COMPREHEND what future actually means......being "OLD" to them is hitting age 30!!! To them they think they are immortal nothing can touch them, hurt them,thier invinciable. They live for the moment without much thought to anyone else. They can't much think past "themselves" the youth are very self absorbed (partly to do with the difference in the way the teenage mind is developed V's an Adult's) thus in part blame Im sure......NOt quite kid not quite Adult/stuck in the middle. And a parents misunderstanding of What's wrong with this kids BRAIN! WEll it's not deleloped yet!!!!!! DUH!!!!!

Anyway, I have thought and thought and haqve come up with some field trip ideas for my child while going through these years..........

When it comes to the sex talk........you can talk/lecture use books and movies but they wont get that.so I plan to take my kid to places in person.

The sex talk: Volunteer time at an AIDS CLINIC with kids and Adults. Spend time with a teenage mother/father seeing how it changed thier life.

DRUGS and Alcohol: TAke him to an AA meeting with youth then Adults.

Breaking the law: Take him to a court session and then to talk to some inmates makebe a tour through ALCATRAZ or something.

MY POINT IS KIDS CANT SEE CONSEQUENCES UNTILL YOU MAKE THEM SEE THE CONSEQUENCES. or they live them.

There is a struggle to help him become a good kid to "behave"
NOONE CAN MAKE HIM........he has to change because he wants to. He is the only one who has the power to change the way he acts.........all your family can do is give him the information, love him, "SHOW HIM THE CONSEQUENCES", do your best and pray.


I highly reccoment Dr. Phils Book FAmily first.

Please keep us posted.Would love to know how your situation turns out.