When to Start a family

[TheWife]

Of course anything could become a burden, that's why I said if you let it. I'd feel better about a football obsession than a game obsession, but anything that becomes a burden is a problem. I am just going off my own feelings and experiences. Whether it's rational or not, I still have a bias towards games and would rather my son do other things. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[mtsu_av8er]

It's so easy to get you to throw the "It's what I think" defense... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Just blowing a hole in your logic, that's all. Personally I'd rather my kids play video games than organized sports...but that's just me.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I see more fights over "watching the game" than "playing Madden".... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[mtsu_av8er]

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I still have a bias towards games and would rather my son do other things. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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P.S. - you have a bias against games.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[TheWife]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Whatever [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I never claimed to be logical or rational. I am a woman. My decisions are usually emotional. So if my only defense is "Cause that's what I think", well that's good enough for me! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[mtsu_av8er]

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I never claimed to be logical or rational. I am a woman.

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[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[naunga]

I'm with TheWife, but don't get me wrong. I love video games, but my parents didn't let me have a game system at all. I got my Xbox when I was 25.

Now my brother was a different story, he had video game systems since he was in 3rd grade, but he was naturally active. He ran cross country etc, but then again when he was around we lived far out in the country and had no neighbor kids for him to play for.

Children should be outside playing...if they can. In the end kids should be taught that getting out of the house and doing something active.

Allow I do agree with mtsu_aviator in that video games are much more mentally active than just watching TV. I was amazed at how much some games require me to think (especially Splinter Cell man that game can be tough...not a good game for the youngins). Even watching PBS doesn't make me think that much.

So bottom line: kids need to be doing physically active things. And when TV time shows up I'd rather have the kid playing a game (assuming it involves more than blasting things) than just staring endlessly at Pokemon or Yu-gi-oh.

An opinion from a former kid and current video game freak.

Naunga

[pullup]

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Would it be wrong to look longingly out of the home office window and daydream abut egging your neighbors house? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Already did that. Me, my brother, my cousin and my neighbor with a water balloon launcher and 7 dozen eggs on a 95 degree day. HAHAHAHAHAHA until we were busted. Then we all had to chip in $25 to pay for a professional cleaner. Best money I ever spent!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Mr_Creepy]

Naunga's complaints about children:
- Late nights up with a child that won't go to sleep. - This stage passes pretty quick
- Waiting in hospital ER's because you child is deathly ill. - You do this for parents and friends too. Part of life.
- Late night up waiting for a child that's out later than planned. - See below
- Increased medical bills - what are you saving the money for?
- The pain of labor. - Answer: C-section!
- Having to forgo things that you like to do for you kids. - Selfish aren't we?
- Less disposible income. - For what?
- Changing poopy diapers (I changed my brother's diaper enough times to last me a lifetime) - Funny thing but when it's your kid you don't care.

"Positive things"

- Birthday parties - These actually suck. Too many kids in one place!
- First steps, words, girl friends, boy friends, day of school. - NO. My daughter is not dating until she is THIRTY!
- Family vacations. - Tell you as soon as we can take one!
- Marriages - READ TWO LINES BEFORE!
- Grandbabies - DITTO!

You forgot some of the best things.
1) "Mommy! Daddy's home!" and she runs to me with her latest work of art
2) Making her laugh
3) Seeing the reaction to everything - clouds, the Moon, dogs, cats, even back yard lizards
4) Hearing her pray "God bless the Stingrays and Dolphins" at bedtime prayer.
5) Watching her do "The Hand Thing" when she gets all excited.
6) The butchering of the english language that just makes you crack up - "Mommy, Daddy, my poopies hurt!"
7) Just sitting and watching. Nobody is as entertaining to watch as your own kid.

You made a lot of comments about money. What is the big worry about money? It aint goin' with you! The country song says it best "I Aint Never Seen a Hearse with a Trailer Hitch."

Kids let you pass the money on to someone you care about.

[ready2fly]

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Children should be outside playing...if they can. In the end kids should be taught that getting out of the house and doing something active.


[/ QUOTE ]
I COMPLETELY agree with that statement! I do think, however, that there needs to be a balance struck between the time spent playing video games and the time spent outside.... with the heaviest of that balance being spent outdoors IMHO.

Growing up, video games did not exist until I was about 10 or 11 and Atari got big. My parents never let me have one. To this day, I cannot play video games worth a damn, but put me outside and I can do anything.

My wife and I were just having this conversation about the future of our child. How to strike that balance. We do see the value in some video games and hand-eye coordination, technical knowledge, etc., but we also don't want our child(ren) to be couch potatos. Just not real healthy.

Oh, and JT: Well said!!!

[TheWife]

[ QUOTE ]
The pain of labor. - Answer: C-section!


[/ QUOTE ] Um, ya think C-sections are pain free? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] The correct answer to a pain free labor would be EPIDERAL. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


R2F-It IS very hard to find that balance, to not let your kids have too much of some thing. The only way I can figure it, is when it starts to become a problem, you do something immediately. When too many treats, too much tv, too much time on games, even too much time outside, starts to cause a problem (like throwing fits for treats, ignoring other responsibilities to play video games, etc.) that's when you modify the time spent doing that thing. Maybe I'll figure out a better way some day, but for now, that's the best way for me to not be "taking away all the fun" but not letting a behavior become a bad habit either.

[naunga]

JT,

It really bothers you that some people choose not to have children, doesn't it?

It's like the 18 year old woman who is refused a tubal ligation because she's "too young", but can have as many children as she wants. Why is she deemed too young to not have children, but old enough to have them? What does it matter to you if I have children or not? What if I did have a child and they grew up to be the person who killed your daughter?

[ QUOTE ]
Naunga's complaints about children:

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These's aren't my complaints. These are the reasons I'm not having children. Whether the stages pass quickly or not isn't the issue. I'm not having children. But at the same time I'm not, as I've said before, telling you that you shouldn't have children.

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Increased medical bills - what are you saving the money for?

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I'm not saving my money for anything. If you ask me saving money is the sillist thing I've ever heard of unless you're saving for a specific goal (college, car, big trip around the world, flight school, airplane, etc). Just like retirement. At this point in time I enjoy my work. Why would I quit? This is what I want to be doing. My wife and I haven't saved a dime. I doubt we ever will. We live paycheck to paycheck and still manage to get a lot out of life. Amazing isn't it?

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The pain of labor. - Answer: C-section!

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Uh yeah, I hardly think that you or I are qualified anatomically to provide the answer to labor pain. I simply pointed out that the rumor is that it hurts like hell. You ever wonder why most OB/GYN's reserve a C-section as a last resort? Between the harm that the general anesthesia may do to the baby, along with the increased time that the delivery takes, and the danger of interal bleeding, and accidental damage to the baby (i.e. scapels are sharp and cut tissue really easily) they're not exactly the safest proceedure in the world. Plus, from what I've heard, the recovery is more painful for the woman...but that's just what I've heard.

On a side note, if my wife were to get pregnant, she not we would be pregnant. We would be expecting, but it's not my stomach that swells, it's not me who gets morning sickness, it's not me who carries the child in me for 9 months. I don't even help with carrying it. She does. I love and support her, but I am by no means pregnant as well.

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Having to forgo things that you like to do for you kids. - Selfish aren't we?

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I didn't appreciate this comment. Perhaps I am selfish, but what's more selfish recognizing the fact that you'd rather live your life without children or having children that you really don't want and resenting them every step of the way?

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- Birthday parties - These actually suck. Too many kids in one place!

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If you like kids and claim that kids are entertaining, how could you ever be around "too many" kids? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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NO. My daughter is not dating until she is THIRTY!

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And if you ask me this is a very selfish statement (even though it was probably said in jest). Children are only children for 18 years. Then they're adults. Why would you wish to limit your daughter's life? This is one of the views that would probably make be a bad father. Once my kid was 13 or 14 they can make their own decisions. Good or bad. If they want to do it I'll let them. I'll give them my advice and tell them what I think, but it's their choice in the end. They also have to live with the consequences of their decision. I'll help them anyway I can, but that's after I say to them "you made your bed, now sleep in it". I firmly believe that God's greatest gift to us is free will. It's also the greatest burden and probably the thing that saddens him the most. We have to choose salvation. God does not force it upon us. So to force someone to live a specific way takes that gift away, and put's the human doing the forcing into a role reserved only for God.

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Family vacations. - Tell you as soon as we can take one!

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You know I don't buy this one. My mother didn't work until after my brother was born (which would have put me in the 4th grade) and my dad was a high school band director in a small town in Michigan. We always took a family vacation. Never anything extravagant, but we always went someplace for about a week or so. So if we went on vacations on a teacher's salary in the late '70's and '80's (and while teachers get 3 months off in the summer that 3 months unpaid vacation) I don't buy that you can't go on a family vacation.

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You forgot some of the best things.

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I could say the same to you about not having kids. For example:
- Apparently you're never going to go on vacation. My wife and I take a big vacation every year and several smaller ones for things like birthday's, anniversaries, Columbus day (gotta love those Federal holidays)
- Being 100% devoted to my wife and no one else. You can't be devoted to your wife and children at the same time. It's like if your home is burning down and your wife and daughter are trapped inside and only one can be saved who do you save?
- Watching my wife achieve things that no one in her family thought she'd achieve.
- Not having to trip on toys in the middle of the floor.
- Being able to walk around the house bare-ass naked without having to worry about if the kids see you or not.

The list goes on. Of course you probably wouldn't see those as positives, just as I don't see "Mommy! Daddy's home!" and she runs to me with her latest work of art as a positive. That fact doesn't reduce the importance of that to you, but it also doesn't mean that everyone would find this as a positive.

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What is the big worry about money?

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No big worry really. I'd just rather spend my money and live my life without having the responsibility of children. Does that make me selfish? Maybe. Does that make me less of an adult? No way. I have the same adult issues that most people do. I pay bills, I go to work, I support my wife, and on and on. The only difference is that I know I don't want children of my own. You can have as many as you want. Doesn't bother me.

As I said I'm not one of these nuts who hates children. I just know that A) I'd make a lousy father. Hell if it weren't for my wife our cat would never get fed, B) I've had enough problems in my life to realize that no one else should be subjected to my genetic material . I just wonder why it seems to bother you so much that I've decided not to have children? I respect the choices that people make to have children or not. I'm happy for the people who do have children. In fact I have a friend who's wife is pregnant with they're second child. I'm thrilled for them, because I know they want a bunch. I'm happy for R2F he sounds like he'll make a great father. That kid is going to have a great life. But I'm also happy for people who choose not to have children. I celebrate people's vasectomies and tubal ligations. These people don't want children, would be lousy parents, and are good people with or without kids.

I look at it like this R2F and I (and other parents out there) have for the most part agreed to disagree about children. The Golden Rule says, "do on to others, as you'd have done to you." I don't wish to be derided or presecuted because I do not want children, and parents don't want to be derided or persecuted because they have children. So I respect their decision, and recognize that just like my decision, their's is right for them.

If any of my posts seem to be derisive toward anybody, I apologize. It was not my intent. Advice was asked for and given from various points of view. Including mine. That's all.

One more thing...

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It aint goin' with you!

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Of course it isn't. I plan to die broke. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Naunga

[TheWife]

[ QUOTE ]
Being able to walk around the house bare-ass naked without having to worry about if the kids see you or not.


[/ QUOTE ] Aw heck, we do that any way. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] At least till their older.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Naunga I am sorry that this subject has been bugging you. I totally agree that if you don't want kids, don't have them. If you have them, whether you wanted them or not, take care of them!! You shouldn't have to defend your self for choosing to not have any, it's your choice. I appreciate that you are respecting those of us who choose to have them.

[ QUOTE ]
she not we would be pregnant.

[/ QUOTE ] And thanks for that! I have always thought it was so cheesy to say "WE are pg". No, WE GOT me pg, but only me is actually pg! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I think some one thought it would be great to say "we are pg" thinking it would make the man take on more responsibility from day 1 instead of waiting till it's born. But it just ain't possible. Can't hand over the tummy and say "here, you be pg today, I'm too tired!" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[naunga]

TheWife,

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Naunga I am sorry that this subject has been bugging you.

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The subject doesn't really bug me. It's the occasional encounter with someone who doesn't think that my life is valid because I choose not to have children. Like that guy that told Doug "Yeah, well that's great Doug. We used to do all that stuff, but decided to settle down, you know, start living life."
I can just hear that guy talking down to us "poor childless people"...which just to clarify: childless = people who want children, but are physically unable. childfree = people who choose not to have children.

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You shouldn't have to defend your self for choosing to not have any, it's your choice.

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Yes it is and I'm happy to meet people like you who can appreciate that fact. Thank you. I don't, however, feel like I have to defend my choice. Nothing that anyone says will change it, except me. I also do not need it validated. I simply request that it be respected.

Anyhow, thanks for the understanding and respect.

Naunga

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
...which just to clarify: childless = people who want children, but are physically unable. childfree = people who choose not to have children.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never heard that distinction before.

Learn something new everyday.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Bandit_Driver]

John...That video was hillarious [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

[ready2fly]

[ QUOTE ]
5) Watching her do "The Hand Thing" when she gets all excited.


[/ QUOTE ]
JT, my sister used to do that very thing!!!!! In fact, she's 41 and still occaisionally does.... for no apparent reason.

However, my sister adds the words "Flee, flee, flee, flee, flee, flee..." [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

If you find out let me know and I'll do the same. There's gotta be a cure.

[Mr_Creepy]

Lots of comments here and it was mostly in jest ok?

Naunga? Is that you Eagle? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[naunga]

I figured some of it was in jest.

And no I'm not Eagle.

But to paraphrase Denzel Washington in Training Day: "Eagle's got! Nothing! On me!"

Hey you guys hear about the new Denzel Washington movie? Apparently he's playing angry black man. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Or how about the prequel to "Troy" staring Kate Hudson?

Guess they're calling it "Raising Helen of Troy".

Bada Bing!

Naunga

[stuckingfk]

[ QUOTE ]
But to paraphrase Denzel Washington in Training Day: "Eagle's got! Nothing! On me!"

[/ QUOTE ]


Denzel does say "King Kong ain't got ##### on me," I don't remember eagle being anywhere in his quote, but I guess he could have, buy I highly doubt it.