CAPT Program: Questions and Answers

[montanapilot]

flying clubs.

[Doug Taylor]

Ok, so I'll ask the first hard question.

Why? The flight program, in reference to other collegiate flight programs, was good, but was desperately in need of some revamping, but I'm curious as to why ERAU leaned towards the 142 side, rather than taking what it did well, and improving it, and taking what it failed at and making it better?

My complaints? training was altogether too mechanical/theoretical. I was taught to do a certain maneuver at a certain power setting at a given power setting -- which would garner a particular peformance value from the aircraft.

The most important thing I learned after leaving the training environment and entering the professional aviation environment was 'doing what you had to do to get the performance that you wanted" our ofthe airplane. I spent more time my first year as a commercial pilot worrying about pitch attitudes and power settings than I did figuring out "Well, if I'm five knots slow and descending, well pitch up and add power".

Sliding back to the premise of this reply, how does diving into part-142 going to make a better generation of pilots?

[cessna2351]

I think ERAU's premise for the 142 program is that it would give its graduates more multi-time and thus make them more marketable towards regionals and Part 135 companies. I can see how this work in theory but I'm really not sure of its success in real life. For example, once an ERAU student would complete is PPL-ASEL, he would instantly start working on his PPL-AMEL as opposed to his instrument, like every other flight school in the US.

I can sorta understand the theory of why they would want to switch to a 142, but its success is another question. I have friends that have spent over $10,000 to get their PPL-AMEL, and it has taken them all school year. Because of the hurricanes, Riddle only had like 6 seminoles all year, not really enough to handle the abundant number of multi-students.

[project7]

[ QUOTE ]
My complaints? training was altogether too mechanical/theoretical. I was taught to do a certain maneuver at a certain power setting at a given power setting -- which would garner a particular peformance value from the aircraft.

[/ QUOTE ]

(Rented Northaire 172, landing PRC.)

ME: "Uh...dude... we're not going to make the runway unless you add some power."

RIDDLE ROOMMATE: "My power is set."

[kellwolf]

Well, I guess the density alt in DAB and Prescott must not change much......

Meanwhile, I hop in a 172M today, go full power, and at Vy, I'm looking at 100-200 fpm climb. Talk about a sucky day.

[ananoman]

[ QUOTE ]
For example, once an ERAU student would complete is PPL-ASEL, he would instantly start working on his PPL-AMEL as opposed to his instrument, like every other flight school in the US.

[/ QUOTE ] This is not as uncommon as you might think. FSI does the multi private before the instrument rating as well. I also know of other schools that do this. It makes sense. You need multi hours anyway. So why not do your instrument in the twin?

I think there is confusion about being a 142 School. I know Riddle has thought of this, but doing your multi private before instrument has nothing to do with 142. A 142 school uses simulators or FTD's to accomplish much of the training. Any type rating you get at FSI or Simuflight is done at a 142 training center, and they use a simulator for 100% of the training. Some of the large schools have thought of doing this for primary training as well. The school sees a benefit in no weather delays and that the care and feeding of a FTD/Sim cost less than an aircraft (the actual cost of the sim/FTD is often comparable to the aircraft). From a training standpoint I think it is good to have a FTD that accurately models the airplane you will be flying and has the same avionics. I also think that part 61 and 141 contain enough allowance for the use of a sim/FTD and reducing actual flight time from current requirements would be very harmful.

[kellwolf]

Downside to the 142 (as mentioned above) is that all the extra ME time you got is more or less the same as getting SE since it's in a simulator. From what I've heard (so take this for what it's worth, which might not be much), most of the training at ERAU done under 142 is in the sim, then you spend like two flights (including the checkride) in the actual plane. So, you wind up with only about 40 hours actual time in aircraft by the END of the program. Although, that's the ERAU main program, not the CAPT program.

[flightlevel350]

[ QUOTE ]
Downside to the 142 (as mentioned above) is that all the extra ME time you got is more or less the same as getting SE since it's in a simulator. From what I've heard (so take this for what it's worth, which might not be much), most of the training at ERAU done under 142 is in the sim, then you spend like two flights (including the checkride) in the actual plane. So, you wind up with only about 40 hours actual time in aircraft by the END of the program. Although, that's the ERAU main program, not the CAPT program.

[/ QUOTE ]

Incorrect, sir. I just left riddle and almost got a chance to finish my private multi and i had about 12 hours in the sim and about 13 hours in the seminole. I still had two more lessons followed by the check ride, but was done with the sims. Don't get me wrong, I still think the program was total crap, which is why i left.

[project7]

They really went the wrong way with the 142 thing. It seems to have made a bad situation worse. I just hope people realize what's going down and get out before spending too much.

[ QUOTE ]
to finish my private multi and i had about 12 hours in the sim and about 13 hours in the seminole

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess what, that's 13 hours Multi-engine. Could have been 25. Good on you for getting out of there.

Out of curiousity, how much was the sim per hour?

[B767]

So you think the ERAU program is crap or the CAPT program is crap? Just curious. I am finishing my junior year in high school and will be applying for ERAU Prescott in the fall. I dont see why people always bash ERAU and not UND either? I only see ERAU being bashed. Now, even though i want to go to Prescott, I still believe that the CAPT program isn't the smartest thing to do with the money that ERAU has, and am not at all interested in it myself.

Taylor

[kellwolf]

I think mainly b/c UND is more than just an aviation college. ERAU sorta has a reputation of trying to sell themselves as the "Harvard of the skies" when there really isn't such a thing. To the airlines, it doesn't matter if you're an ERAU grad or a graduate of Idaho State College as long as you have a bachelor degree in SOMETHING.

[B767]

Ok, i see. Thank you for clarifying. I always thought it was the prices (UND's flight costs are just as much as ERAU), and tuition is expensive because it's private (CC is and expensive school to get a teaching degree from...it's private too). Thank you. Oh well, I hope i get accepted, then I'll see how i like it (or dislike) and go from there.

Taylor

[project7]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh well, I hope i get accepted

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't worry about that. They (ERAU) will take anybody nowadays. It's all about the benjamins.

[flightlevel350]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh well, I hope i get accepted

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't worry about that. They (ERAU) will take anybody nowadays. It's all about the benjamins.

[/ QUOTE ]


I can vouche for that! They (ERAU Daytona) accepted 95 percent of applicants for next year. 95%!!! It was such a huge jump in acceptance that housing doesnt have enough room to house them all, so they are bringing in trailers to make room for all the new guys! It's seriously ridiculous. There were enough idiots in my aeronautical science classes last year and now even more idiots are going to be in aero sci. Another reason why im done with that place.

[DE727UPS]

Taylor, I have to ask you a straight up question. Why do you want to go to ERAU? I graduated from ERAU-PRC in 1982 and fly big jets for UPS now. If there is one thing I'd do different, looking back on things, it would be to NOT get a degree in aviation from ERAU.

The main reason I'm at this site is to make sure young folks like you understand how things really are in this industry, and what's really important. Not what you read at some big academy website or what some guy in marketing has told you. I hate it when I see guys repeating the mistakes I made 25 years ago. Just want to make sure you've thought this through and want to see what your thought process was.

[Phil_Eagle]

What is so fu**in wrong with ERAU? I'll be an AS Major (maybe Business- we'll see) starting in the Fall. When people ask why ERAU keeps on being bashed , the answer is : "because they make themselves out to be the harvard of the skies".
That was actually a quote from some newspaper (dont recall which one).
Which school wouldn't be proud of that?

A university is a stepping stone to a career, and when people go to a university (ERAU) to beable to say they're hot [censored] and better than anyone else, then yes that is pethetic. But if you stay down to earth, and try hard and do the best you can, then there is nothing wrong with having a degree from Embry Riddle.


This is from another forum:

"Regarding airlines "backing up" or "sponsoring" flight programs, if you're an ERAU grad, you don't even need it. Just the name alone says enough to the airlines without us even saying a word. Job interviews around the aviation industry become simpler and quicker, because interviewers already know that their education is top-notch, and that there's no need to really test the candidate's knowledge in detail. If you don't believe me, you can ask any of my classmates who have already experienced this special treatment first-hand. I know many people have posted on A.net in the past that the name "ERAU" gets you nothing more than anyone else, but those posts were from non-ERAU students who either didn't want to believe it was going on, or who did and didn't want to admit it. Expensive? You get what you pay for. Yes, I paid extra for special treatment. If that makes you mad, well you had the same opportunity."


Thats a pile of [censored]. And these people are the reason ERAU Grads get a bad reputation I suppose. I'm attending school because I want to do the best I can. I'm looking foreward to being in an enviroment focused around aviation. That's my thing. I want to be a pilot more than anything else in life, and that's why this is the school for me.

Embry Riddle is a top school, there simply isn't a doubt about that, just like UND or Perdue or what [censored] ever I dont know but i do know that its trying hard, and what you make of it that'll get you a job. You have to land the actual job.
Erau might be expensive and crowded and whatever but the fact is, I never come across real reasons why not to go to ERAU, maybe the price, but that's about it.

So ERAU people: stop thinking you're something better.
Anti ERAU people: stop thinking that ERAU (only) produces stuck up #######s that are rich and dumb.

[DE727UPS]

I don't mean to "bash" ERAU. What I would like to do is convey my opinion that it's not the best option for those seeking a career as an airline pilot. Is there some way I can do that without YOU thinking I'm bashing? Let me know....

You want someone to give you some good reasons, besides price, to consider other options? Here's a few:

When you get out into the real world, nobody cares where you went to school.

A non-aviation degree gives you a second area of expertise that can be interesting and helpful during those times in a persons life when the love of aviation doesn't pay the bills or, as in my case, doesn't rule my life anymore.

Flight training at one of the largest aviation schools is bureaucratic experience. They think they are teaching you how to be a good airline pilot by this, but in reality, they are taking some of the fun out of flying little planes.

Being at an all aviation school isn't the best enviornment for personal growth is some ways. I don't think you get the full spectrum of what the college experience should be. Plus, there aren't as many good looking chicks as at most schools.

Plus, it's really expensive and you'll be in debt up to your eyeballs when you're done with nothing but low paying CFI and regional airline jobs for years as you work your way up the ladder.

Now, after you consider all the options and the opinion of a wise old man, who is where you want to be and once did what you are about to do, if you still feel that Riddle is where you need to be, then more power to you. What worries me is those who buy into the ads and marketing hype without getting the other side of the story.

[B767]

The reason I am choosing ERAU PRC is because I too want to be surrounded by aviation. My choices are UND and Embry-Riddle, and after looking into it more...you would be with a lot more stupid people at UND (their website states that any high school grad with a 2.5 GPA who received a 990 on the SAT is still considered for automatic acception...pretty lousy i think). The reason for these school is they have better connections and internships. I have talked to a Continental 764 Captain who praised it, a female 2001 grad who flies Hawkers, and currently work at an FBO with an instructor from ERAU. They all have nothing bad to say. I realise there are negatives. What about the "actual" college life? Well that's not for me...I'm not a real party-goer and druggy (which according to the Princeton review...almost everyone at UND does drugs and parties...I guess it's the only thing to do in ND ) What about a backup in case flying fails? For one, I dont believe flying will fail. There will almost always be a job doing some sort of flying. And 2, i can get a minor in another area, which can be a backup, and upon graduation I am planning on taking a few night classes or online classes (possibly even a community college class) for business or management. I will just reiterate. I am not choosing ERAU for the "big phallus (to be polite) theory" (that's what the Military academy graduates are for...and i hear a lot of that here in Colorado Springs).This is why I'm choosing ERAU.

Taylor

[DE727UPS]

Okay. I just feel better knowing I tried to warn you. Let us know how things turn out.

[flightlevel350]

[ QUOTE ]
you would be with a lot more stupid people at UND (their website states that any high school grad with a 2.5 GPA who received a 990 on the SAT is still considered for automatic acception...pretty lousy i think).

[/ QUOTE ]

ERAU's acceptance rate is now at 95 percent. "Pretty lousy" is an understatement.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a real party-goer and druggy (which according to the Princeton review...almost everyone at UND does drugs and parties...I guess it's the only thing to do in ND )

[/ QUOTE ]

You think you will find alot of students at any university that dont go to parties? And you think you will find more to do in the thriving retirement community known as Prescott, Arizona? haha hilarious

[ QUOTE ]
What about a backup in case flying fails? For one, I dont believe flying will fail. There will almost always be a job doing some sort of flying.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, flying will never fail, but you or your body may. The hiring can stop. Get type 2 diabetes and try to get a job then get back to me. Run into a few pilots who have gotten furloughed. Its an entirely different story for them.

[ QUOTE ]
And 2, i can get a minor in another area, which can be a backup, and upon graduation I am planning on taking a few night classes or online classes (possibly even a community college class) for business or management.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, Im not a big fan of supporting a family on simply a minor. 15 credit hours alone hardly qualifies anyone for any job. Good luck trying to support yourself let alone any dependants on that kind of job. ATC may be the only acception. Its very rare to be successful on a minor.

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I'm choosing ERAU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you really thought things through and didnt just listen to the admissions department at riddle. It's ok thou, I made the same mistake, and im fixing it. You sound exactly like I did one year ago, all gung ho about riddle. Dont get me wrong, riddle is a good flight school, but i just feel that it is ridiculously overpriced and poorly run, and not better than alot of other university flight schools. The new 142 program they did last year was horrible. For the amount of money that i spent there i would expect the program to be perfect. I was just extremely disappointed and feel that i got screwed out of 45 thousand dollars. I feel that smaller flight schools can just be run much more efficiently after observing so many of my classmates get screwed by the system. Granted, I was at the daytona campus, but I hear even worse things about prescot. Riddle used to be a completely different place. It has changed ALOT, so older pilots had a very different experience there then students are receiving now. I heard there was a bit of "restructuring" in the flight department last week at daytona because they realized that things had gotten very messed up there. Anyways, best of luck to ya. Got questions about riddle, you can ask me, because i wll give you honest answers because you cant get em from anyone at the university.

[DE727UPS]

"You sound exactly like I did one year ago, all gung ho about riddle."

He sounds like me 25 years ago....

[Phil_Eagle]

hey FL350, I'd like to ask you some questions, don't want to spam this thread full of my stuff. Got an email address or Yahoo / AIm / ICQ?

Phil

[B767]

Flightlevel350,
I am aware that things have changed and always will. That is why in my ealier posts i mentioned that i hope to get accepted and see where things go from there. I dont know if ERAU is right for me, how would i? I wont know what path to take until i actually experience a path, and i havent at this point in my life as i am only 17. If i decide to transfer, then i can join the rest of the flock here and tell would-be students what i thought of ERAU. And if things work out, then i'll contribute my positive ideas on why they should attend. Who nows? I will stay a regular here at Jetcareers and let you guys know what i feel when the time comes. In the meantime, i will just contribute like i am now.

Taylor

[stuckingfk]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason I am choosing ERAU PRC is because I too want to be surrounded by aviation. My choices are UND and Embry-Riddle, and after looking into it more...you would be with a lot more stupid people at UND (their website states that any high school grad with a 2.5 GPA who received a 990 on the SAT is still considered for automatic acception...pretty lousy i think). The reason for these school is they have better connections and internships. I have talked to a Continental 764 Captain who praised it, a female 2001 grad who flies Hawkers, and currently work at an FBO with an instructor from ERAU. They all have nothing bad to say. I realise there are negatives. What about the "actual" college life? Well that's not for me...I'm not a real party-goer and druggy (which according to the Princeton review...almost everyone at UND does drugs and parties...I guess it's the only thing to do in ND ) What about a backup in case flying fails? For one, I dont believe flying will fail. There will almost always be a job doing some sort of flying. And 2, i can get a minor in another area, which can be a backup, and upon graduation I am planning on taking a few night classes or online classes (possibly even a community college class) for business or management. I will just reiterate. I am not choosing ERAU for the "big phallus (to be polite) theory" (that's what the Military academy graduates are for...and i hear a lot of that here in Colorado Springs).This is why I'm choosing ERAU.

Taylor

[/ QUOTE ]


I think you just defined the word idiot.

What you just wrote was the biggest bunch of bs I've read in a while. I honestly don't know that many students here that do drugs. If the princetown review views alcohol as a drug, then half the people in America are druggies. Don't believe everything you read in a magazine written by people who don't even attend the school. You can find parties/drinking anywhere you go bud, trust me. We actually have many ERAU transfer students here who think ERAU is the biggest #####hole in the world.

And now for the facts

You will fly more here in an actual airplane and actually spend less doing that. If you want to take a break from the whole flying thing, do it. That is what is best about a liberal arts school. You meet every kind of person, not just the propheads. We have sports and plenty of girls.

[B767]

Again, that's great that there are people at UND that believe ERAU is a #####hole, but I am quite aware of that just from this forum. Now, idiot is defined as a person affected with idiocy (extreme mental retardation), or a foolish or stupid person. I did not know that forming my own opinions based on readings from a nationally acclaimed college preparation company made me a stupid person. I thought that would make me a smarter person for digging in and researching what the possibilities of my future are. I know i don't suffer from extreme mental retardation. I know i don't suffer from extreme mental retardation, so therefore i do not fit within the confines of an idiot. The bs i gave you was, again, based on what i think and what i've read and heard. Now, if that was bs, then you must have had some bs excuse to go to UND, because you obviously chose the school based on what you've heard and other reasons. So, in essence, we're all BSers, correct? No. Sorry i havent talked to many UND students, but i have talked to a few, and i havent toured it (only ERAU...and like what i saw), but will this summer. Maybe then my "bs" will change, but until then, it wont.

And UND's webstie shows the prices for flying, and they're just as expensive as ERAU's. The only cost difference is tuition.

I don't know what was said that offended you so badly. But I'm sorry, just stating my thoughts.

Taylor