CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK!!!

tyrael · January 25th, 2005, 18:30

Here is the link to the already started thread:

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showfla...o=&fpart=1

BCTAv8r · January 25th, 2005, 18:43

That's cool.

How did this guy get a bachelors in 2 years?

"
Andrew Coleman graduated from Saint Mary’s High School in Paducah, Ky. In 2003, he received a bachelor’s degree in aviation management and flight from Jacksonville University. He is president of a property investment and management firm."

montanapilot · January 25th, 2005, 18:56

no its not cool brian. What happened is that 3 people threw down a bunch of money and bought themselves a job. I hope they got a tube of KY with their certificates.

Maximillian_Jenius · January 25th, 2005, 19:26

[ QUOTE ]
I hope they got a tube of KY with their certificates.

[/ QUOTE ]

No Kelly KY helps one take it reeeal easy (ummm so I have heard). From the sound of your distain you want them to take "it" with no KY!

-Matthew

montanapilot · January 25th, 2005, 19:29

hahaha, i knew you were gonna respond when i threw in the snide remark about KY.

BCTAv8r · January 25th, 2005, 19:41

[ QUOTE ]
no its not cool brian. What happened is that 3 people threw down a bunch of money and bought themselves a job. I hope they got a tube of KY with their certificates.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it they bought themselves a job? They paid all that money and got the flight training which got their requirements done in order to get hired. Just because people usually go the CFI way doesn't mean that other ways are wrong. This is theur choice, I'm sure their not complaining as they now have a job.

Did they waste a lot of money? Maybe. But it was their choice and it got them where they wanted to get.

montanapilot · January 25th, 2005, 19:54

they bought themselves jobs because if they hadn't dropped 80G's to purchase the worthless MD-90 type, paid for "flight experience" AKA sitting in the back seat observing, and flying around in ERAU's overpriced diamonds they would still be CFIing, banner tow, etc. like everybody else.

Maximillian_Jenius · January 25th, 2005, 19:59

[ QUOTE ]
hahaha, I knew you were gonna respond when i threw in the snide remark about KY.

[/ QUOTE ]

....hehehehe!

chris · January 25th, 2005, 21:03

I just wonder how long it will take these guys to upgrade? If ASA requires an ATP to act as PIC, it can take them a very long time.

tyrael · January 25th, 2005, 21:40

You said it Brian! It is their decision and there is no reason to not just support them. Some of them probably took out loans that will take them their first 10 years in the aviation industry to pay off, but just like doctors, dentists and everyone else, the 80K that you pay, is just 25% of what these other careers will set you back after medical school.

You could even bring up the argument that people try to "buy" themselves an education. This is training. Common man, realize and what is it with the KY? Aren't we all grown up here?

eeg · January 25th, 2005, 21:41

WOW a wopping 3. Gulfstream has pushed out about 250.

Is it right? Yes and No.

Are they airline pilots? Yes.

Are they happy? Yes.

The bottom line is that both pfting and instructing work. It just depends how fast you want to get there.

sorrygottarunway · January 25th, 2005, 21:42

I guess I can add this stuff to my list of "stuff not to discuss in cruise on a 2-crew flight"

DE727UPS · January 25th, 2005, 22:28

The problem with PFTing is it's good for the individual, bad for the piloting career as a whole. You buy your way in and that works for you. Problem is, it gets management used to pilots being willing to pay for a shot at being a pilot. Next thing you know...that's gonna be the only way to get in the door. Paying your way in lowers the bar for the entire profession and makes a MOCKERY of it.

PFTing is like being a scab in my book....it's great for the individual but bad for the group as a whole. And what's bad for the group will eventually turn around and lower what YOU can expect from the career.

PFTing is part of the race to the bottom we are seeing in this industry. You wanna contribute to that?.....knock yourself out. Hope you enjoy the ride.

Seggy · January 25th, 2005, 22:40

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with PFTing is it's good for the individual, bad for the piloting career as a whole. You buy your way in and that works for you. Problem is, it gets management used to pilots being willing to pay for a shot at being a pilot. Next thing you know...that's gonna be the only way to get in the door. Paying your way in lowers the bar for the entire profession and makes a MOCKERY of it.

PFTing is like being a scab in my book....it's great for the individual but bad for the group as a whole. And what's bad for the group will eventually turn around and lower what YOU can expect from the career.

PFTing is part of the race to the bottom we are seeing in this industry. You wanna contribute to that?.....knock yourself out. Hope you enjoy the ride.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said.

B767Driver · January 25th, 2005, 22:43

Couldn't have said it better myself. It might be time for the FAA to issue an Airline Flying Certificate...that would require 3000 hours or so to operate anything over 15 seats for hire...any seat.

I get so embarrassed reading any aviation magazine these days...they all say become an airline pilot in 9 months or something. Hell, I couldn't land a cherokee consistently after 9 months. Very, very denigrating to the profession we all love.

goaround · January 25th, 2005, 23:40

[ QUOTE ]
Hell, I couldn't land a cherokee consistently after 9 months

[/ QUOTE ]

If it took you 9 months to learn to land a cherokee, you are probably not a candidate for ab initio training.

Doug Taylor · January 26th, 2005, 00:21

I'm confused. Somehow it's not a waste of bandwidth to advertise a already posted post on the same website?

Maybe it's the jet lag...

wheelsup · January 26th, 2005, 00:33

[ QUOTE ]
no its not cool brian. What happened is that 3 people threw down a bunch of money and bought themselves a job. I hope they got a tube of KY with their certificates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone is so quick to jump on the PFT bandwagon. Did these guys pay ASA any money? From the little I know about the CAPT program (aside from it being an embarassment to ERAU) students simply go through the CAPT program and and then given interviews by various (in this case ASA) airlines. No money is exchanged between ERAU, the student, and said airline.

DCA/Comair Academy is the exact same thing!! Are they a PFT outfit? I'm sure no one has ever thought that about them, simply an expensive training school.

Now, if they must pay $xxx.xx for the interview and hand a check to ASA, then it'd be PFT. Otherwise, its just expensive (albeit good I'd assume) training with a bonus at the end. The school rakes in the money because of their airline connection (a la DCA).

FutureLeader · January 26th, 2005, 00:42

I think CAPT is great. I do not think it is buying a Job. This is just a "new" approach for North America, I do not know why some people frown at it. Ever heard of British Airways Flight Academy or the Training they do at Martinair? This is so similar. Quite frankly, it is similar to the military way of doing things. Plus, CAPT is not for the weak at heart. This program is fast paced and rigorous. I think it is just another path to the cockpit. Some choose CFIing, some choose military and some choose CAPT.

wheelsup · January 26th, 2005, 00:44

[ QUOTE ]
they bought themselves jobs because if they hadn't dropped 80G's to purchase the worthless MD-90 type, paid for "flight experience" AKA sitting in the back seat observing, and flying around in ERAU's overpriced diamonds they would still be CFIing, banner tow, etc. like everybody else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pre-911, ERAU couldn't push enough 250-hour former ASA/ACA interns into ASA's/ACA's new hire classes. Would that (interning, graduating, then getting offered a job @ 250 hrs) be considered PFT?

Apparently it would in your mind....

In my book those people just made good career moves. They're not lowering the industry standard. The CFI with 1200 hours would take the same job as the 250 hour pilot. You'll never convince anyone that the 1200 hour guy would hold out for a better job...especially a CFI or banner tower!

~wheelsup

Doug Taylor · January 26th, 2005, 01:21

As a alumni of ERAU, I have a lot of problems with the CAPT program. I doubt if you can find a single graduate of ERAU that'd speak highly of CAPT except those you find in the glossy magazine ads or on the university brochure.

Sorry ERAU, I'm just calling it like I see it!

montanapilot · January 26th, 2005, 01:37

[ QUOTE ]
You said it Brian! It is their decision and there is no reason to not just support them. Some of them probably took out loans that will take them their first 10 years in the aviation industry to pay off, but just like doctors, dentists and everyone else, the 80K that you pay, is just 25% of what these other careers will set you back after medical school.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
This is training.

[/ QUOTE ]

funny how you have laid pretty low around here then all of the sudden, "Hey Everybody ERAU CAPT is the bombdigitty!!!!" and try to rub it in our faces because a measly 3 people made it through.

I think you posted in the wrong forum by the way. The place you wanna send this piece of propaganda is advertising@jetcareers.com

Windwalker · January 26th, 2005, 03:09

If I am not mistaken Flight Safety Academy has a ASA program just like Riddle.

http://www.flightsafetyacademy.com/main/index.php

sorrygottarunway · January 26th, 2005, 10:20

what I'm interested in is the atmosphere this will create in a crew room in the future. Probably everyone will be so professional that they will put it all behind them.

AJM · January 26th, 2005, 10:26

I don't think anyone thought that no one would ever make it through the CAPT program and get hired. We just knew the success rate would be dismal. And it is... ERAU was bound to buy/negotiate someone a slot before to long, they have spent too much money on this program.

www.captiscrap.com still...

January 25th, 2005, 18:30	#1
tyrael Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 10	CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK!!! Here is the link to the already started thread: http://jetcareers.com/forums/showfla...o=&fpart=1

January 25th, 2005, 18:43	#2
BCTAv8r Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 6,259	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK That's cool. How did this guy get a bachelors in 2 years? " Andrew Coleman graduated from Saint Mary’s High School in Paducah, Ky. In 2003, he received a bachelor’s degree in aviation management and flight from Jacksonville University. He is president of a property investment and management firm."

January 25th, 2005, 18:56	#3
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK no its not cool brian. What happened is that 3 people threw down a bunch of money and bought themselves a job. I hope they got a tube of KY with their certificates.

January 25th, 2005, 19:26	#4
Maximillian_Jenius Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA Posts: 19,232	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK [ QUOTE ] I hope they got a tube of KY with their certificates. [/ QUOTE ] No Kelly KY helps one take it reeeal easy (ummm so I have heard). From the sound of your distain you want them to take "it" with no KY! -Matthew

January 25th, 2005, 19:29	#5
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK hahaha, i knew you were gonna respond when i threw in the snide remark about KY.

January 25th, 2005, 19:41	#6
BCTAv8r Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 6,259	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK [ QUOTE ] no its not cool brian. What happened is that 3 people threw down a bunch of money and bought themselves a job. I hope they got a tube of KY with their certificates. [/ QUOTE ] How is it they bought themselves a job? They paid all that money and got the flight training which got their requirements done in order to get hired. Just because people usually go the CFI way doesn't mean that other ways are wrong. This is theur choice, I'm sure their not complaining as they now have a job. Did they waste a lot of money? Maybe. But it was their choice and it got them where they wanted to get.

January 25th, 2005, 19:54	#7
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK they bought themselves jobs because if they hadn't dropped 80G's to purchase the worthless MD-90 type, paid for "flight experience" AKA sitting in the back seat observing, and flying around in ERAU's overpriced diamonds they would still be CFIing, banner tow, etc. like everybody else.

January 25th, 2005, 19:59	#8
Maximillian_Jenius Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA Posts: 19,232	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK [ QUOTE ] hahaha, I knew you were gonna respond when i threw in the snide remark about KY. [/ QUOTE ] ....hehehehe!

January 25th, 2005, 21:03	#9
chris Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 293	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK I just wonder how long it will take these guys to upgrade? If ASA requires an ATP to act as PIC, it can take them a very long time.

January 25th, 2005, 21:40	#10
tyrael Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 10	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK You said it Brian! It is their decision and there is no reason to not just support them. Some of them probably took out loans that will take them their first 10 years in the aviation industry to pay off, but just like doctors, dentists and everyone else, the 80K that you pay, is just 25% of what these other careers will set you back after medical school. You could even bring up the argument that people try to "buy" themselves an education. This is training. Common man, realize and what is it with the KY? Aren't we all grown up here?

January 25th, 2005, 21:41	#11
eeg Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Fo\' Laudydaudy, FL. Posts: 235	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK!!! WOW a wopping 3. Gulfstream has pushed out about 250. Is it right? Yes and No. Are they airline pilots? Yes. Are they happy? Yes. The bottom line is that both pfting and instructing work. It just depends how fast you want to get there.

January 25th, 2005, 21:42	#12
sorrygottarunway Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DXR, Connecticut Posts: 1,194	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK!!! I guess I can add this stuff to my list of "stuff not to discuss in cruise on a 2-crew flight"

January 25th, 2005, 22:28	#13
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,578	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK!!! The problem with PFTing is it's good for the individual, bad for the piloting career as a whole. You buy your way in and that works for you. Problem is, it gets management used to pilots being willing to pay for a shot at being a pilot. Next thing you know...that's gonna be the only way to get in the door. Paying your way in lowers the bar for the entire profession and makes a MOCKERY of it. PFTing is like being a scab in my book....it's great for the individual but bad for the group as a whole. And what's bad for the group will eventually turn around and lower what YOU can expect from the career. PFTing is part of the race to the bottom we are seeing in this industry. You wanna contribute to that?.....knock yourself out. Hope you enjoy the ride.

January 25th, 2005, 22:40	#14
Seggy Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 5,498	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK [ QUOTE ] The problem with PFTing is it's good for the individual, bad for the piloting career as a whole. You buy your way in and that works for you. Problem is, it gets management used to pilots being willing to pay for a shot at being a pilot. Next thing you know...that's gonna be the only way to get in the door. Paying your way in lowers the bar for the entire profession and makes a MOCKERY of it. PFTing is like being a scab in my book....it's great for the individual but bad for the group as a whole. And what's bad for the group will eventually turn around and lower what YOU can expect from the career. PFTing is part of the race to the bottom we are seeing in this industry. You wanna contribute to that?.....knock yourself out. Hope you enjoy the ride. [/ QUOTE ] Very well said.

January 25th, 2005, 22:43	#15
B767Driver Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,943	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK!!! Couldn't have said it better myself. It might be time for the FAA to issue an Airline Flying Certificate...that would require 3000 hours or so to operate anything over 15 seats for hire...any seat. I get so embarrassed reading any aviation magazine these days...they all say become an airline pilot in 9 months or something. Hell, I couldn't land a cherokee consistently after 9 months. Very, very denigrating to the profession we all love.

January 25th, 2005, 23:40	#16
goaround Newbie Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 15	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK!!! [ QUOTE ] Hell, I couldn't land a cherokee consistently after 9 months [/ QUOTE ] If it took you 9 months to learn to land a cherokee, you are probably not a candidate for ab initio training.

January 26th, 2005, 00:21	#17
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,927 Blog Entries: 1	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK!!! I'm confused. Somehow it's not a waste of bandwidth to advertise a already posted post on the same website? Maybe it's the jet lag...

January 26th, 2005, 00:33	#18
wheelsup Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _ Posts: 5,615	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK [ QUOTE ] no its not cool brian. What happened is that 3 people threw down a bunch of money and bought themselves a job. I hope they got a tube of KY with their certificates. [/ QUOTE ] Everyone is so quick to jump on the PFT bandwagon. Did these guys pay ASA any money? From the little I know about the CAPT program (aside from it being an embarassment to ERAU) students simply go through the CAPT program and and then given interviews by various (in this case ASA) airlines. No money is exchanged between ERAU, the student, and said airline. DCA/Comair Academy is the exact same thing!! Are they a PFT outfit? I'm sure no one has ever thought that about them, simply an expensive training school. Now, if they must pay $xxx.xx for the interview and hand a check to ASA, then it'd be PFT. Otherwise, its just expensive (albeit good I'd assume) training with a bonus at the end. The school rakes in the money because of their airline connection (a la DCA).

January 26th, 2005, 00:42	#19
FutureLeader Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 122	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK I think CAPT is great. I do not think it is buying a Job. This is just a "new" approach for North America, I do not know why some people frown at it. Ever heard of British Airways Flight Academy or the Training they do at Martinair? This is so similar. Quite frankly, it is similar to the military way of doing things. Plus, CAPT is not for the weak at heart. This program is fast paced and rigorous. I think it is just another path to the cockpit. Some choose CFIing, some choose military and some choose CAPT.

January 26th, 2005, 00:44	#20
wheelsup Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _ Posts: 5,615	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK [ QUOTE ] they bought themselves jobs because if they hadn't dropped 80G's to purchase the worthless MD-90 type, paid for "flight experience" AKA sitting in the back seat observing, and flying around in ERAU's overpriced diamonds they would still be CFIing, banner tow, etc. like everybody else. [/ QUOTE ] Pre-911, ERAU couldn't push enough 250-hour former ASA/ACA interns into ASA's/ACA's new hire classes. Would that (interning, graduating, then getting offered a job @ 250 hrs) be considered PFT? Apparently it would in your mind.... In my book those people just made good career moves. They're not lowering the industry standard. The CFI with 1200 hours would take the same job as the 250 hour pilot. You'll never convince anyone that the 1200 hour guy would hold out for a better job...especially a CFI or banner tower! ~wheelsup

January 26th, 2005, 01:21	#21
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,927 Blog Entries: 1	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK As a alumni of ERAU, I have a lot of problems with the CAPT program. I doubt if you can find a single graduate of ERAU that'd speak highly of CAPT except those you find in the glossy magazine ads or on the university brochure. Sorry ERAU, I'm just calling it like I see it!

January 26th, 2005, 01:37	#22
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,643	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK [ QUOTE ] You said it Brian! It is their decision and there is no reason to not just support them. Some of them probably took out loans that will take them their first 10 years in the aviation industry to pay off, but just like doctors, dentists and everyone else, the 80K that you pay, is just 25% of what these other careers will set you back after medical school. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is training. [/ QUOTE ] funny how you have laid pretty low around here then all of the sudden, "Hey Everybody ERAU CAPT is the bombdigitty!!!!" and try to rub it in our faces because a measly 3 people made it through. I think you posted in the wrong forum by the way. The place you wanna send this piece of propaganda is advertising@jetcareers.com

January 26th, 2005, 03:09	#23
Windwalker Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 32	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK If I am not mistaken Flight Safety Academy has a ASA program just like Riddle. http://www.flightsafetyacademy.com/main/index.php

January 26th, 2005, 10:20	#24
sorrygottarunway Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DXR, Connecticut Posts: 1,194	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK what I'm interested in is the atmosphere this will create in a crew room in the future. Probably everyone will be so professional that they will put it all behind them.

January 26th, 2005, 10:26	#25
AJM Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 29	Re: CAPT AND ASA!!! EVERYONE DOUBTING TAKE A LOOK I don't think anyone thought that no one would ever make it through the CAPT program and get hired. We just knew the success rate would be dismal. And it is... ERAU was bound to buy/negotiate someone a slot before to long, they have spent too much money on this program. www.captiscrap.com still...

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