"My Experience at DCA" by UCF

[av8trxx]

This post is some interesting reading about this students experience at the DCA-

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthr...threadid=34582

[H46Bubba]

Okay, I guess I'll add my $0.02. It doesn't take a genious to figure out that it cost's more than they estimate. That's why it is an estimate! They will tell you, before you sign anything, that you will probably go over the estimate. I knew before I signed my enrollment agreement (contract) that I could and probably would go over the estimated price. It took me longer than expected to get my instrument, so it might add on to the etimated price. I'm aware of that. A lot of these people go into it blinded by that "guaranteed interview" at the end of the tunnel. Of course not everybody makes it, for different reasons. It's just like going to college, not everybody you start with will graduate or finish, for whatever reason. Money is a big reason why most don't finish. Some don't want to instruct, some leave to training elsewhere, and some leave to instruct at some other FBOs. I really like the training, the atmoshere, the instructors, and it is a proven thing. If you stick it out and apply yourself 100%, you can make it to the end of the tunnel. Instructors are getting hired. Skyway's chief pilot came down just two weekends ago and interviewed a bunch of instructors. I think they picked up 9 instructors, some with just 800 hrs TT. ASA was just here this last week also, so things are looking really good. I know this is my path to go, so I'm not going anywhere.

[Wannabe2]

I think, and you can ask the folks in admissions, that the prices quoted are not estimates, but rather minimums. If you never bust a flight, never unsat a stagecheck or checkride etc. I don't know ANYONE that has done that. Maybe for one or two ratings, but I would guess that EVERYONE goes over those mins in one area or another. That's not to say people don't get out of the school close to the quoted price, but everyone goes over at least a little. I was over by about 10%. Any flight school that will guarantee a price for a particular rating worries me a little. What if some guy takes six times as long as they estimated. Either they are going to push through an unsafe pilot, or eventually lose money on the guy as he burns up gas and engines. That is bad business, and this is a business. I'm not saying DCA is cheap, quite the opposite actually. What I am saying is that when shopping around for schools, be realistic in what you are getting prices for.

A disclaimer as well, that I am an instructor at DCA and have a vested interest in seeing more students come through the doors. Just thought I better add that in case anyone cared.....

[Mr_Jimmy_Fly]

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A disclaimer as well, that I am an instructor at DCA and have a vested interest in seeing more students come through the doors. Just thought I better add that in case anyone cared.....

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The only people that care more than you are Pat, Tom and Susan. Every time a student comes thru the door, little dollar signs appear in their eyes. If you all are so vested in the students (customers) why don't you treat them as such? You might BS those that folks who have never attended DCA but I've been there and done that. Don't tell me about DCA's vestment in students, even the president don't care about the students (customers) and I know this first hand.
DCA has the worst customer skills I ever saw. By the way, in the retail and trade industry you are required to be within 10% of your written estimate by law.


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[Wannabe2]

I agree that some folks around school care more than others. That being said, you may not, ever, say that I don't care about my students. You have no idea you ignorant pr*ck. Don't ever judge me. I work on my days off, I show up for stagechecks when my guys are up and don't get paid. I give far more groundwork than I charge. I care one hell of a lot about my students. If you got a bad instructor you might have a case, but don't ever say that I don't care.

I would also think that the folks like Pat and Susan that are making the big $$$ have a lot more invested in keeping the customers happy than us instructors making $10 - $12 an hour. They have very nice jobs to lose if the school dosen't make a buck. I can go back home tomorrow with a job lined up at my FBO, so who has more to lose? If you had a bad experience I am sorry. Some folks do. For the most part, the students that I see having bad experiences are the ones that were too lazy to work hard enough to make it work for them. Sorry if that was you.

Like I said about the cost, it is not an estimate, it is a minimum, so I don't see how the 10% applies.

I am sure I will get flamed for this and I can take the heat. This school is certainly not perfect, cheap, or for everyone, but I will not sit here and listen to anyone say I don't care about my students.

[Flip]

And you are an instructor at DCA and you use landuage like that.......??? Wow. Seems like the arrogance factor is as big as ever over there!!!! Glad I got out when I did.

[Mr_Jimmy_Fly]

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I would also think that the folks like Pat and Susan that are making the big $$$ have a lot more invested in keeping the customers happy than us instructors making $10 - $12 an hour. They have very nice jobs to lose if the school dosen't make a buck.

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Making big bucks and making customers happy are two completely different things and they don't always go hand in hand.


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If you had a bad experience I am sorry. Some folks do. For the most part, the students that I see having bad experiences are the ones that were too lazy to work hard enough to make it work for them. Sorry if that was you.

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You could engrave a sign with this quote and hang it over the back door at DCA. That way the "lazy students" could read it as they are leaving. It's always the lazy students fault at DCA. There is'nt anything wrong with the program, management or instructors. Right? Of the total students that enroll, how many (lazy) students never get the job interview? 50%? I'll bet it's lower than that. According to DCA's ad in Flying 3% of the non-lazy students don't get a job.

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Pr*ck

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Ooops! you lowered your intelligence.
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[Wannabe2]

Yeah, sorry about the Pr*ck comment, I was a little hot when I read your post. Even if I think you are one I shouldn't call you that. Even if you did say that I didn't care about my students without knowing a thing about me. As long as you don't swear it must be OK to throw around insults. My apologies for using that language. The use of vulgarisms can detract from the learning process.....

As for the making big bucks and having happy customers those things DO go hand in hand in the long run for any business.

As for how many lazy students never get the job interview I would guess it is pretty close to 100% never get the interview.

That might be a good idea about the sign over the door though, but it should be read as the student comes in, not as they are leaving. That way they are reminded to stay on task and work hard....

[flyguy]

Sorry to butt in here, I don't want to pick sides or anything, but when I toured DCA (then Comair) I was assured that once I completed all instructor ratings there, I would be given a guarenteed job as a CFI. I was given no clause to that statement concerneing whether or not I was lazy.

Anyhow, this brings some questions to mind.

1. If everyone who completes the program is guarenteed a job as a CFI, why an interview? What's the point?

2. If everyone who completes the program is guarenteed a job as a CFI, why are some not even given an interview?

3. And finally, If everyone who completes the program is guarenteed a job as a CFI, why are there so many who complete the program not DCA CFI's?

Its pretty clear they are being deliberately deceptive, and have no intention of offering a job to everyone.

On the other hand, if there are lazy students, I would not want to go to a school who would make them my CFI, and I'd rather forgo the guarenteed job to make sure my instructor is one like Wannabe2 who cares about the students.

On the other hand. I have a feeling there are some good deserving pilots who have been shown the door upon completion of their CFI ratings.

[H46Bubba]

Wow, this thread is getting way to heated up! Lets try to keep things civil. There is no guarantee to get an interview as a flight instructor. I looked through all the advertisements I had and I couldn't find that. I was never told that before I enrolled. You must of had one of the slicker admissions persons. Once you are are enrolled in the CFII course, you can submit a resume and application to get an interview for a CFI position. They will look over everything including your student folder and see how you did in all your previous ratrings and especially focus on how well you did in CFI. If they like what they see, you are invited to an interview after CFII. If you pass the interview, you are given conditional employment and are put on a wait list for Standardizations class.
Standz class is pretty hard and it's meant to weed out the ones that are up to the academy's par. Once you pass Standz then you are employed as a CFI.
Of course there are some that go find cfi positions at other FBO's that pay better and decline to attand Standz class.
The only quaranteed interview is the one when you've given 800 hrs of instruction.
There are a lot of great instrucors here. They've been in our shoes and know how much it costs to get where they are. They offer to give ground instruction on thier own time for free. They come in on their days off, if you have stage checks. That means a lot to me considering how much they are making and that they only have one other student besides yourself.
We're all here voluntarilly. Some are blinded by the ads or the guaranteed interview at the end of the tunnel and really don't think things through as to how much it may cost them or if they really like flying or not. It's not for everyone. I got my private at an awesome FBO and would gladdly go back and finish up there in a heartbeat, but I wanted to come here and I am enjoyinging it. There's always good and bad things about any school you attend.

[cyrcadian]

Amen Brother!

I too care about my students and i know that they appreciate it. I work at the New Bedford base and i know that for the past 10 months i have had to do alot more than just be a good instructor to my students. These kids have so much more to worry about than the students in SFB. Things like normal college classes, jobs, and the biggest factor, where the money is coming from. It takes many hats to be a great instructor up here but its worth it.

And i know there might be a reply about "where the money is coming from" comment. All i can say is, I have seen students come in on budget. It can be done. The ones who go over and spend thousands more are the ones that don't show up, study and/or just don't care.

It seems people think you pay the $$ and magically you get a job. Hey it takes WORK!! A lot of it.

[flyguy]

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There is no guarantee to get an interview as a flight instructor.

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I kind of figured that, but that's what I was told

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You must of had one of the slicker admissions persons.

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I kind of figured that too.

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Once you pass Standz then you are employed as a CFI.

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I finally deturmined that that's what he meant by "completing the program" My point is, what I was told word for word was "everyone who completes the program will be employed as a CFI" and it was not mentioned that completing the program involved being selected for an interview, passing the interview, then passing standz. Thats very deceptive if you ask me. They might as well tell us that once we complete their program we'll be guarenteed a job at the regional of our choice. Of course completeing the program involves sending out your resume, being selected for an interview, and being offered a job. If you don't get hired, you didn't complete the program. Actually as ridiculous as that sounds, even though they didn't flat out say we'd be guarenteed a regional job, they kind of implied it.

[chrisdahut1]

I have to chime in too. No where have I seen, or heard in the last few years I've been with the company that they guarantee you a job as a flight instructor. Even when hiring was brisk and we had a serious instructor shortage (back in early 2000 in the Broward base) was a job guaranteed. In fact, despite the fact I was already working for the company as a dispatcher back then, I felt like not even continuing in the program because of some difficulties in my Commercial training which I felt reflected poorly on my skills and would kill any chance of getting hired on completion of the CFI.

Fortunately I stuck on, overcame my problems, interviewed and got hired. And later this week I'll finish the dual given requirements and get released :-)

[flyguy]

I'm sure there never was any such guarentee. My point is that I was told word for word that once I completed the program I would be a Comair CFI, and the admin rep cleverly left out the part about how going through the hiring process and being selected was part of completeing the program. I can offer no testimony to the quality of instruction there, in fact from what I've heard it's quite good. But I think their deceptive marketing tactics are unacceptable and unneccessary. You guys have a good program going and that's what the marketing department should focus on instead of leading people to believe they are being offered a job once they pay the application fee. I realize I may be one of the only ones if not the only one who was told this, but you can't deny that DCA is notorious for deceptive marketing tactics and I think that's kind of pathetic.

[H46Bubba]

Most of the students know by the end of their first month if they were told the truth. It's just like the military. Recruiters spin the truth to get thier goal numbers for the month. Not all are like that. The same goes for the DCA admissions staff. It only takes one to put a wrench in someone's impression of the school. But that's why there is a thread about the school on JC. People can come here see the good and the bad things about DCA and try to input that into their decission making. That's why I started my diary. To tell everyone how the training is as well as my experiences. Everthing I post really happens and I don't polish it up either. I don't polish it up. I want to help people make their mind up about whether or not to attend DCA or not The school is not for everyone. There are better FBO's and methods to train and get to the Regionals. I thought about Sierra. They have a great program, but I have a family, and the cost of living up there is more astronomical than where were living in San Diego.

[H46Bubba]

Most of the students know by the end of their first month if they were told the truth. It's just like the military. Recruiters spin the truth to get thier goal numbers for the month. Not all are like that. The same goes for the DCA admissions staff. It only takes one to put a wrench in someone's impression of the school. But that's why there is a thread about the school on JC. People can come here see the good and the bad things about DCA and try to input that into their decission making. That's why I started my diary. To tell everyone how the training is as well as my experiences. Everthing I post really happens and I don't polish it up either. I want to help people make their mind up about whether or not to attend DCA or not. The school is not for everyone. There are other good FBO's and methods to train and get to the Regionals. I thought about Sierra. They have a great program, but I have a family, and the cost of living up there is more astronomical than where were living in San Diego. DCA had the program that I wanted and I'm enjoying it. It's challenging as well as rewarding. When I had a personal problem and couldn't handle the training scheduling, I went to customer service, told them of my problem and asked to transfer over to the "Flex" program. I was transfered over to Flex within an hour. I am enjoying the flexibility of scheduling, especially since the weather is heating up. I can fly in the morning or late in the evening to avoid the heat as well as weather cancellations.

[ClipperPilot]

I live in pembroke pines and took the tour of the Broward campus. I met with an instructor, i forget his name, and he told me that employment isnt guaranteed and that when a group of them made it to standz class they all passed except one. He told me that the one who didnt move on literally didnt study anything for the class. He also informed me that it would be hard work but it can be done. I hear broward has a good hire rate anyway, im sold and very excited. I start in August for the fall term. Another thing though, is that the lady i spoke with, Erin is her name, told me that i should take out about $40,000 which should cover the program. I only have PPL-SEL. I didnt totally buy it but i know it will be expensive, hopefully no where near 80 Grand.

[H46Bubba]

I would probably pad that amount. It would probably be safe to add another $15,000, to be on the safe side. Even if you don't use it, it will be there just incase you take a little bit longer. As of now I am on track but I think since my instrument took a little longer, it might put me a little over. Hopefully I won't hit too many more learning platau's.

[ClipperPilot]

Yea, i probably will take out a little more to be safe. Once i start the program i'll start posting on how im doing, your dca diary is a great insight to the program and what students face. I think i start one, how long do you think your commercial will take you to wrap up?

[bullmastiff]

Yeah I kind of figured most quotes were on the conservative side. During my visit the admissions reps were talking about all the students that take out loans near 100K It all makes sense. It is a damn god school, it just isnt for everybody

[montanapilot]

yeah its a great school if you enjoy havin your ass owned by Key Bank for the next 20 years.

[H46Bubba]

Once I get throught the night stuff, it should go pretty smoothly. The weather is not cooperating with my schedule. Afternoon and evening t-storms are not letting me get out of Sanford VFR. I'd gladly file IFR to get out of Sanford, but the lesson calls for VFR, so I'll have to wait till thursday to try again. That will be the next day I have off from work. So till then, I'll do groundschool with my instructor before work, watch everyone else fly from the DCA maintenace hangar, and hope to get a maintenance flight. Not everybody has the Key loan. A lot of people like myself pay for it themselves. I'm paying for it myself and my Veteran's Assistance his helping pay 60% of each course, so that is a big help.

Oh yeah I fuess the school and Key Bank came up with a new plan as far as paying back the loan. It used to be that you had to start repaying the loan six months from the day you graduated from the CFII course. Now to make it easier on the wallet, they are now extending that to six months after you finish MEI. By then you're almost to the airlines.

[flyboy04]

Just to let everyone know, I went to DCA and enjoye the training. I had the best instructors and I think i was a good student. I never had the first no-show, passed all of my written test, both class and FAA first. I passed all of my FAA rides on the first time, and passed 9 out of 12 stage checks first time. I was always on time, and tried to be the best student i could be. It took me a little over 13 months to complete the program, and I was not offered a job as a CFI. I have know idea why. I hold no grudges, i just wish i couldve realized that nothing is guaranteed, even to the best of students. I firmly believe everything works out for the best, Im happy i wasnt hired, because now im at a school where CFIs and students are respected, and just a more pleasant environment to work in. Im sure for the eager student this post will go in one ear and out the other, as it did mine, but please dont be suprised if you find yourself thousands in debt with no job.

[planediveguy]

It is pretty interesting that the people that hold this amount of grudge against DCA do not post their real names...so Mr. Jimmy Fly... Who are you? when did you attend DCA? What happened? Did you ever get through with your ratings up to CFII? Where are you now? Still flying?...

If you want to complain... do that in the open.

Otherwise you could just be another school's admissions dept rep trying to give DCA a bad rep...

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[Doug Taylor]

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It is pretty interesting that the people that hold this amount of grudge against DCA do not post their real names... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

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Oh man, take a peek in the Pan Am forum! I suprised they haven't filed a restraining order against that forum! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]