Went to check out DCA

[FutrPilot]

A couple weeks ago I had the opprotunity to go and check out Delta Connection Academy. I had very high expectations of a school with very nice full page color adds, that also seemed to have nice recruiters etc.....or so I thought. I found that the school was in a smaller town that seemed old and run down. The airport itself was a larger airport and was actually not a bad airport to conduct good training on but still not very current as the DCA facililties are in old buildings from the navy air base when the airport was not a public airport. While on the tour we checked out all of the simulators, all were cool. They have a pretty much brand new CRJ 200 sim and they treat it like a God. Its behind to glass doors and it is closely monitored. It seems very sacred when you hear students, flight instructors, and staff talk about it and the opprotunity they had to touch it or fly it. What good does a multi million dollar sim do if you don't even allow people to fly it on a consistent basis? makes no sense. Then we checked out the flight line. The SEL a/c, like the C172's and the C152's are much to be desired. All original, avionics, and interior from the year the planes first were built. After looking at the price to pay for a private liscense and the equipment that you get for almost 10 grand, Its a little dissapointing seeing i can get my ppl for 7 grand and train on a brand new C172SP with a better experienced CFI. I will say the Twin Engine A/C were nicer and i would have no problem doing my training on them, but they are very expensive and you pay an insane amount of money for them. After doing that we then went and saw the housing, All in all the housing complexes aren't too shabby. That is when i found the town was just old and worn out, nothing that i would be proud of if i was a student at DCA let alone DCA itself, and they even try to hide it by taking back roads to the housing complexes. After doin all that we went back and talked to the financing specialist and she informed us how we were gonna afford the estimated 53 grand. We then were given to, we'll keep his name anyononomus but he strongly resembles a heavier set Pat O'Reily, with the slicked back black hair. He insisted to to be a complete a** hole salesman trying to tell those that had already had liscences need not apply and they would spend way more money than if they didn't come to the school from the beggining. he did and said other things that really bugged me. All he wanted to do is give someone a class date and get the school that persons money. Overal when I look over all that i was given and all that i witnessed in just a short couple hours a school which in my mind was such a gold mine and the holy land of flight training schools in the aviation industry was no more than a high priced, worn out airplane school that had two market tools and that was the CFI Benefits as well as the garenteed interview with Comair. I will say i will most likely not be going to comair avaition academy for many reasons listed above and others not mentioned.

Another thing that really scares me as a student is the financial troubles that Delta is having, what is to stop Delta from cutting a "subsidiary" of itself DCA to cut expenses. That means all the flight instructors that go there get screwed.

just my though on this, Id thought i would share with you my semi unpleasent experience at DCA and you can take what you want from my experience and use it for yourself.

Id say if your thinking about it seriously go check it out, you may have a serious heart change if you see how things really are.


give me your feedback on what you think

Travis

[Aviator737]

Interesting and perceptive impressions. I'm surprised they even took you out to the flightline. Something that didn't happen when I toured there, and I don't know of anyone else on JC that has.

Even in Delta Airline's financial struggles, I doubt you have to worry about DCA's stability. They're in no way, other than the name, affiliated. DCA is run under the guidance (though to what extent I don't know) of Comair Airlines. It's very much a distinct entity. If by some chance Delta mainline went under, I don't think that would impact the school in any way. Other than, of course, the fact that there would be a flood of furloughed airline pilots in look for work, and reduce your and my chances for getting hired.

[FutrPilot]

Yeah I hear what you mean. I think the thing as I mentioned in my first post scares me the most about that word Subsidiary. It says it right on the sign when you look at it. So as much as Id like to think they wouldn't cut it, I still wouldn't put it past them. Delta has made a lot of poor financial decisions ( hence the poor financial status they are in at this current time with mainline delta as well as Song) whats to stop them from making another one?

[blee256]

Aviator737,
Its funny you mention that about the flight line, both times i toured there, the planes were located far away for some reason and we didnt get to see them. haha.

Futrpilot,
did you get to check out anyother schools while u were in FL? or did you use their free airfare?

and about Delta being in a poor financial state, they arent doing that bad. United declared bankruptcy, AA was on the verge of declaring bankuptcy, US airways is in and out. So I think Delta is doing pretty good compared to those guys. Though they did lose 300 million last quarter, but i hear if they continue to have a loss at that rate they can still last til summer 2005. They have made some pretty good decisions in the past from my understanding. So I wouldnt worry about DCA's financial situation or their "interview" agreements.

good luck on your flight school search.

-brian

[FutrPilot]

I traveled on my flight benefits on my airline. I didn't go and check out other schools in that area, I didn't have a chance. Another thing that was a turn off to me that i didn't mention in my original post was the weather was killer out there. How many people want to go to a place and roast it out in a hot Cessna, and then on top of that add 100% realitive humidity. I guess im used to awsome California weather.

In regards to your comment on Delta and its finnacial standing in comparison to other airlines. Whatever the loss that an airline is making be it 300 million or even just 1 dollar, a loss is a loss. At some point in time the governments will say enough is enough and say no more. cause ultimatley it is the US gov that enables airlines to stay in business. Don't get me wrong Delta is an good airline id like to see all airlines stick around and keep all those jobs But the nature of the airline industry is the survival of the fittest. Its almost like a war. If an airline isn't making it financially 9 times out of 10 its gonna go under or be bought out. USAir?

Maybe Doug could enlighten us on what he thinks about Delta and its connection with DCA as well as the financial standing of Delta.

[cyrcadian]

First let me start off by saying i do have an affiliation with DCA, however it was not my first flight school so i know what else is out there. I'm sure there are good and bad points at many flight schools, but i would like to comment (subjectively) on a few things.

"I found that the school was in a smaller town that seemed old and run down."

Question: Are you going there to fly planes or party and enjoy the nightlife of Sanford, FL? The town is old and a bit run-down, agreed, but what is DCA supposed to do about it. Besides, Sanford is just 20min north of Orlando (Disney, Universal, etc) so there is always plenty to do.

"The airport itself was a larger airport and was actually not a bad airport to conduct good training on but still not very current as the DCA facililties are in old buildings from the navy air base when the airport was not a public airport."

SFB is an awsome training airport. Great controllers, challenging airspace, and plenty of options for any type of training situation. As far as the buildings. . . i could care less about how old a building is, all i care about is the quaility of training inside.

"What good does a multi million dollar sim do if you don't even allow people to fly it on a consistent basis? makes no sense."

People fly it all the time! It's an invauleble tool that prepares you for the sim ride during training at whichever regional you decide on. Besides, does a student working on his/her private really need to get in the thing if he/she can even tell the difference between a 152 or 172.

"The SEL a/c, like the C172's and the C152's are much to be desired. All original, avionics, and interior from the year the planes first were built."

NOT TRUE!!! All of the avionics have been updated in all aircraft within the past 2 years. I will conceede the interior looks like the inside of a 1968 VW, but again i'm not there to ride in style with leather seating and velvet arm rests. What i do care about is the stuff under the cowl. The on-site and on demand maintenance keeps those planes in perfect working order.

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
...In regards to your comment on Delta and its finnacial standing in comparison to other airlines. Whatever the loss that an airline is making be it 300 million or even just 1 dollar, a loss is a loss. At some point in time the governments will say enough is enough and say no more. cause ultimatley it is the US gov that enables airlines to stay in business......

[/ QUOTE ]

"Ultimatley it is the US gov that enables airlines to stay in business."

You lost me on that one. Care to explain a little further?

[Joepilot]

I am amazed that you were able to see through the amazing sales pitch that DCA puts on. I am a former student of the school that didn't get hired as an instructor. I did get some of the best training out there, but I hate DCA's current attitude. I was there when it was called comair and you didn't wear uniforms. Then Delta slapped their name on it and the BS has been piling up every since. They have hired too many instructors and now you finish CFII before you interview with the school. Just trying to squeeze more money out of you. I have a CFI job right now and I am about 100hrs and 8 students ahead of my friends who just got hired as instructors. Also in response to the updated avionics post. You must have flown the same plane over and over. Except for the new Seminoles, a few arrows and 172's, those planes are pieces of Sh**.

[FutrPilot]

Let me explain myself on a couple items that you are questioning.



cyrcadian:

I will say that you asked very good questions in response to my dislikes about the school and the area in which the school is in. I think it all comes back to the same question is the most bang for your buck. Facilities, "the city", Equipment, CFI's Experience, training, flight time is all in an equation for what your paying for the academey be it directly or indirectly. wether you like it or not. And i think when you add all of those things together it doesn't seem like you come up with the price 52,000 or shall i say the "projected" cost of 52 grand (which many students of whom i asked said they went over and they had said most went over like 15 - 20grand) So that tells me one thing that you are payin a heck of a lot of money to get that airline interview, or shall i say if you get the CFII slot and then stick with em for 2 years and then hopefully get hired when you get the interview.

YOUR Quote: "NOT TRUE!!! All of the avionics have been updated in all aircraft within the past 2 years."

Question: last time I checked a transponder with dials on it isn't exactly late 90's technology, unless they are putting refurbished or used avionics in their planes.



SteveC:


I guess that comment that I made could be a topic in itself. But, I will elaborate on that comment I made. Whenever a United States airline starts loosing money and then consistently looses money, they usually file for banktcrupcy when they are tapped out, or cant afford to take a loss anymore. Then it is usually the US gov. that gives them protection (chapt 11...etc) or denies it, or lets them merge. United Airlines.........USAirways...., and I have even heard rumor that Delta is planning on filing for banktcrupcy. that is where i got the comment "ultimatley it is the US gov. that allows the airlines to stay in business" quote.



apilot:

I agree with what you said. A lot of the pilots who i have talked to said, the school has changed dramatically from when they had been there many years ago. But overall they said when it was under the comair name they had no regrets about going there. you mention the abundance of flight instructors, its funny it did seem like there were too many flight instructors walking around in their uniforms compared to the students. so that may be another thing I never thought about.






Overall everyone chosses their own route to being a CPT flying for a major, it all leads to the same conclusion, just certain ways are going to be harder or more expensive than others. I just see this academy at this time as somthing that wouldn't be the most bang for my buck. The cons outweighed the pros. I hope it changes in the future, cause i think it has so much more potential than what its like right now. some of my dislikes are things out of DCA's controll but the majority of them are and if those were to change I think I would reconsider going there.

[seasmoke]

Something is not right about this thread . . .

[Kristie]

and that would be?

[Mr_Jimmy_Fly]

[ QUOTE ]
They have a pretty much brand new CRJ 200 sim and they treat it like a God. Its behind to glass doors and it is closely monitored. It seems very sacred when you hear students, flight instructors, and staff talk about it and the opprotunity they had to touch it or fly it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hail to the CRJ Sim! No man, woman or child shall pass this way without paying due respect to this equipment. Let it be written, let it be done. Travis, come forth ye' and be reckoned with.
.
.

[yankee_one]

[ QUOTE ]
We then were given to, we'll keep his name anyononomus but he strongly resembles a heavier set Pat O'Reily, with the slicked back black hair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you mean Pat Reily?

Guess you've been spending a bit too much time at Pat O'/Briens.

Just remember 8 hours bottle to throttle!

[Doug Taylor]

Is Pat O'Brien that guy from Access Hollywood that talks monotone, "we'vegotnewdetails on Keanu Reevessssssss..."

[blee256]

[ QUOTE ]

Then it is usually the US gov. that gives them protection (chapt 11...etc) or denies it, or lets them merge. United Airlines.........USAirways...., and I have even heard rumor that Delta is planning on filing for banktcrupcy. that is where i got the comment "ultimatley it is the US gov. that allows the airlines to stay in business" quote.




[/ QUOTE ]


United airlines didnt merge with US airways because they were both doing poor financially. Some even say United went into bankruptcy partially because they spent so much time and money trying to buy US airways.

United, Delta, and AA are the big 3. United is bankrupt, AA very nearly declared bankruptcy. Delta isnt even close to it right now, I think they are just trying to use it as leverage to get wage concessions from their pilots. The only time I heard about Delta might be declaring chapter 11 is if they cant get wage concessions from their employees.

Anyhow, Delta Airlines financial state shouldnt have anything to do with choosing DCA. People go to Pan Am academy, and that airline went completely under over 10 years ago!

[CLR4ILS]

Travis,
It is too bad you didn't have time to drive down and tour FSA. The programs, facilities, and instructors are all top notch. It sucks that you traveled all the way out there only to have a gut wrenching feeling of disappointment in your stomach. I was in class here at FSA with a few former DCA students that had the same comments about the school. One would think that with Delta behind them they would update their facilities and A/C.

I do know that Flight Safety has a few things going on that might intrest you.

1. They are putting together a promotion that if you fly down to tour the academy, and you sign up, they will refund your airfare up to $500.00. Check with the school for details.

2. They will also put you up and feed you for two days. This gives you time to tour other schools on day two if you choose to. They are confident you will like the academy so they really encourage you to look around at other schools if you want while you are here.

3. Flight Safety has a new ERJ full motion level D SIM coming soon in addition to the SAAB level D already here. Every student gets 1/2 hour free in the SIM once you have completed your instrument checkride.

4. American Eagle has signed on to offer a direct track program starting soon at FSA. The ASA program is also set to start back up this month. Both programs will eventually use the ERJ level D SIM.

5. The wait to be an instructor here is damn near gone. There is alot of movement here right now. The list is down to around 30 from 120.

6. There is another airline signing on soon for a direct track program like ASA and American Eagle. I can't say a name until negotiations are finished.

The weather in Florida actually makes for good instrument training (if your instrument takes place around fall to winter). When you look at schools be sure to look closely at their programs. FSA offers a few key things most schools do not. For instance, you will do your instrument in a new Seminole equipped with HSI, RMI, and dual Garmin 430's. Doing your instrument in a twin really helps give you a leg up on your career. You get to do upset attitude recovery training in a ZLIN. This was some of the most valuable and definately the funnest part of my training here. FSA has spacial disorientation training in a GAT SIM. These are just a few things that are included in the CIME program at FSA that most schools do not offer.

I think that the best thing to do when touring a school is to pull the "students" aside and throw them your questions. Do not ask the instructors or other staff because most people will not bite the hand that is "currently" feeding them. The students on the other hand will generally be honest especially if the school has pissed them off in any way.

I hope this helps,
Good luck...ILS

[Mr_Creepy]

Yeah guys are getting hired so fast no one wants to take my course. Things have definitely picked up!

[H46Bubba]

Thank God!

[aviator]

I always wondered why ASA, which is owned by Delta, chose FSI to do a direct track program not DCA..........

[Wannabe2]

Pretty sure ASA is not owned by Delta. Anyone back me up on that one?

[aviator]

ASA is owned by Delta and ASA has never hired a DCA instructor out of their "get you an interview" program. Yet they have hired a several hundred FSI students......

















D

[Doug Taylor]

ASA is owned by Delta. Delta doesn't have a lot of say in who gets hired at the DCI/Delta Connection carriers or sources. Kind of like how McDonalds owns Chipotle Grill, but the manager from the local McDonalds isn't going to drop by and demand that the manager of Chipotle hire his pal to assemble the burrito bols.

[H46Bubba]

Please state where you got the info about ASA never hiring a DCA Instructor from the guranteed interview. I know four personally that have been hired by ASA, and one just got hired by ASA last week. The academy got him his interview last month. Unless you have first hand knowledge or work in ASA HR, don't go around spouting off information about another schools program. Anyways Everyone pretty much picks Comair or Chautauqua.

[chrisdahut1]

Delta holds some stock in ASA, but ASA is not wholly owned by Delta. As far as I know, the only wholly owned Delta Connection carrier is Comair. (I could be mistaken on this. Did a little research online, but couldn't find anything conclusive.)

[aviator]

From a previous post.

[ QUOTE ]
I talked personally with the CEO of ASA (Skip) and he said ASA has never hired a DCA instructor out of the "guaranteed interview" program.....


[/ QUOTE ]