Help? I don't need no stinking help....or do I?

[bushmaster]

Ok, I know I'm new to this forum and new to aviation (with exception of msfs HA!) but I am trying to select the absolute best academy to goto.

I am having a difficult time making up my mind between dca and panam. I've seen tons of negatives on both, most being the money factor. I can understand why the money factor would play a role in decision making but isn't it true in this business that you get what you pay for? Just curious...

Also, is anyone married with a child or children and attending a flight academy? If so, please give me a heads up and let me know what to expect.

I appreciate everything you guys do here, especially the care packages to Iraq! THANKS!

[montanapilot]

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dca and panam

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go to neither of them! well first question is do you have a degree?

[bushmaster]

I'm a few credit hours short of my associates in criminal justice. Why would this be a factor?

[Icarus_ME]

I have the same question. I really don't know where to go. I like DCA and Flight Safety, but haven't made out my mind yet, Can anyone help me?

I just completed my bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering, but my passion is avation.

thanks..

[mtsu_av8er]

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I just completed my bachelors degree in Mechanical Engineering, but my passion is avation.


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My degree is an aerospace one...wanna trade??

[mtsu_av8er]

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I'm a few credit hours short of my associates in criminal justice. Why would this be a factor?

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Going to be a real big factor when it becomes time to look for a job....do you have any plans to finish your 4-year degree? Veteran, huh? Have you considered a 4-year university with an aviation program (assuming that you've already decided to pursue an aviation degree....that's up to you)??

[montanapilot]

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I'm a few credit hours short of my associates in criminal justice. Why would this be a factor?

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cause you'll need a 4 year degree to be competitive when applying at a major airline.

I would also encourage you to check out your local flight training facilities, they will probably be quite cheaper, and the airlines dont have a preferance (sp?) where you train. While DCA and PanAm both probably provide good training, they shovel you bull##### by the truckload with their advertising, with the hype and skewed hiring outlooks.

[bushmaster]

Thought about it but find it not to be in my best interest at this time. I have a family to support and I want to have my degree in criminal justice incase the aviation thing doesn't pan out.

My understanding is the airlines want you to have any kind of 4 year degree to show that you are trainable and follow through with your commitments? Not really sure on that one. But it makes sense if they would be spending thousands of dollars to train someone.

Anywho, my plan as of right now is to get into a flight academy, get it over with and land a small time job, where in the mean time I can work on my 4 year degree build time.

But like I said, it's all a big thought right now, nothing set in stone yet. At least not like the first time I signed my life away

[Icarus_ME]

I had the oportunity to pursue Aerospace but decided for mechanical becuase it has far more stuff to know and can work in almost any kind of industry. But aerospace is a good one. I also have a addon on my bachelors which is called a certificate of aerospace for mechanical engineers which consists in taking all your major classes and combine them with mine. It's pretty cool!.

Wanna Trade ??

[bushmaster]

[ QUOTE ]
I also have a addon on my bachelors which is called a certificate of aerospace for mechanical engineers which consists in taking all your major classes and combine them with mine. It's pretty cool!.

Wanna Trade ??

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha! I'll take what I can get!

By the way, just got the questionnaire from DCA. Says a spouse or parent must attend the tour with you. Are they (DCA) being open about the program or are they trying to sell it to everyone? To me it sounds like they are trying to be completely open and honest about the program.

But in my previous job I was a Military Policeman in the Army, (Certified in interviewing and interrogations) I'll be able to drag the truth out of them one way or the other.

[Hollywood]

bushmaster- if you already have your mind set on spending an obscene amount of money going to a flight academy, i'd go with flight safety. i've met many people from dca,pan am, and fsi. 99% of the time the fsi people are a lot happier with their choice. i would consider going a route that is less expensive. i spent a lot less money on my flight training than you would attending one of the academies mentioned above, and paying this loan back is not easy. BELIEVE ME! granted, i'm having a little help paying it right now. without that help, i wouldn't be able to pay it. in retrospect, i wouldn't have taken out a loan. something to think about.

[FlyNH]

i am currently enrolled at DCA. I would recomend going elsewhere for training. They do have a pretty good training curriculum ,but as far as aircraft and costs there are much better options out there .Unless you are dead set on becoming employee of DCA I would recomend going elsewhere.

[Joepilot]

I would have to agree with the previous post. I went to DCA, spent an obscene amount of money. But. to their credit I think I have recieved some of the best training out there. The risk with DCA is not getting hired as an instructor which happened to me. But I have lucked out and I am actually about 100 hrs of dual given ahead of many of my friends who are still there struggling with one student. And I have an opportunity to get some time in a Lear or King air. Just remember unlike what DCA's marketing scheme says they are not the only way to the airlines.

[bushmaster]

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I would also encourage you to check out your local flight training facilities, they will probably be quite cheaper, and the airlines dont have a preferance (sp?) where you train.

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I can understand this to an extent. When I look at the situation through the eyes of a person on a hiring board for a major airline, I ask my self a few questions.

According to panam, they have an "airline advisory committee". DCA is owned by a Delta. (I was told today by a Delta rep that Delta has purchased comair which would make the academy owned by Delta?) My point is who are the major airlines more willing to hire? The pilot who went through training at an academy or a pilot who went through other means of local training?

For example, panam has the committe, dca is owned by delta, this would mean the airlines know the cirriculum and standards set by the academy and have a say in how training should be done to meet their specifications. What the major airlines do not know is the standards set by my local flight school.

So, is it worth the money to attend one of these two academies? Has anyone called hiring personel from a major airline to ask?

I thank you all for your input. I like to do research before dropping any amount of money into anything.

[montanapilot]

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So, is it worth the money to attend one of these two academies? Has anyone called hiring personel from a major airline to ask?

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no it isnt worth it, maybe flightsafety, but no way to DCA or PanAm!

The same FAA that sets the "standards" that these places love to toot their horn about so loud, is the same FAA that sets the standards for your local flight school. Its FAR 61 or 141 and the airlines dont have a preferance.

I talked with a guy who toured the place and said they didnt let him see the maintence dept, hmm....maybe they got something to hide. They give you this "for insurance purposes" B.S. answer. Geez at my FBO i can get somebody to show me maintence, somebody must be lyin.

You might wanna PM John Tenney I think he was an interviewer for Mesa.

The airlines really dont care about where you trained all they care about is if you are qualified and have the right hours and type of them.
These "airline advisory committees" and "being owned by delta" is a crafty marketing ploy and just a way to get people to drop 80G's.

I m sure doug, A300cpt, DE727ups, seagull and others who have "made it" can tell you better than i can.

[bushmaster]

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So, is it worth the money to attend one of these two academies? Has anyone called hiring personel from a major airline to ask?

The same FAA that sets the "standards" that these places love to toot their horn about so loud, is the same FAA that sets the standards for your local flight school. Its FAR 61 or 141 and the airlines dont have a preferance.

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I guess I should have phrased my question different. I realize the FAA sets the standards for flight training, but wouldn't the airlines be more willing to hire from a place where they are assured the standards are met and exceeded, (panam & dca etc.) rather than a place where only the minimums were met and training standards would be questionable?

I also realize that in addition to training, flight time must be accrued, but never the less it does not change the type of training you receive. Panam talks about having "direct guidance from the airlines." and training for more"than just the minimum FAA requirements followed by most traditional flight schools".

I guess contacting someone who has a say in the hiring process for a major airline would be the next step. Maybe some of you could be of some help for a point of contact. i.e. those of you who work for a major airline like Delta....Doug..

Montana, you make some good points. I like to be kept in check, it helps me clear up any misunderstanding I have. But James Brown has to go dude. That pic scares me j/k.

[DE727UPS]

It doesn't matter to a major if you went to DCA, Panam, or Joe Jim Bob's flight school. It really doesn't....

The point is...by the time you get to that level, what flight school you went to has nothing to do with it. We are talking 5000 hours total and a couple thousand hours PIC turbine to even get a major to think you're qualified....and that's assuming the majors are hiring. Do you really think said major is going to look at your first 200 hours and give a rip? IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER....

Is DCA or Panam saying it does? If so, then it's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard and you can tell the recruiter I said so...Don Eikenberry, UPS 757 F/O, well...almost....

Now...if you're talking about the regional level. Some of the academies have deals with some of the regionals to hire their grads. Sometimes these deals work out and sometimes they don't....you only have to do a little research and you can see that for yourself. There are happy academy grads and there are those who think it was all a big mistake. Personally, I'm a big believer in part 61 training and working your way up the ladder....it gives you a wide variety of experiences to call on as a professional pilot.

[ananoman]

By the time you get to a major airline (if any are still solvent and hiring) where you trained will not be an issue. Althought the minimums posted on the websites are quite low, all the actual new hires for major airlines have thousands of hours including a fair amount of turbine PIC. They do not care where you got your ratings anymore than an employer cares where you went to grade school.

The only time it matters is when you get your first job at the regionals. Even then it is not so much were you actually trained as what kind of experience you have. If you instruct at a large academy you will have the advantage of getting a large amount of IFR / Multi time and this is what you want to prepare yourself for your first job after being an instructor. It can be quite difficult although not impossible to get multi time at the average FBO.

There is always the Academy vs. FBO debate. If you live near a quality FBO this can be attractive. You can save alot of money. If you do not live near a good FBO, an academy is definately the way to go. They cost alot, but provide organized ground school, experienced instructors, and an organized curriculum. It is not likely that you will graduate from an Academy and have any big holes in your knowledge base.

I only have experience at FSI and I can tell you that it is a good way to go. We have a good reputation in the industry and if you are hired as an instructor here you will get all the multi time you can handle. But, it is not cheap and you really have to look at your finances to see if they will take the hit, although your GI bill would help out quite a bit. Good luck.

[Joepilot]

Being a former DCA student, I now realize that after searching countless job sites that Comair as well as Chitauqua are hiring from the outside. DCA makes you think that these airlines only hire from the academy. I am sure attending the school helps, but you have to get hired as an instructor first. From what I hear they are hiring anyone with a pulse right now and you have to wait about 5 months for a standz class and you might be lucky to get one student. I have a friend who has finished with his first INS student and he will be lucky to get another one over the next month. Just my 2 cents worth.

[flyguy]

"Beyond the FAA minimums" is a common marketing tactic for the academies. Think about it, they get to charge you for extra training "beyon the minimums" and make you think its better that way. In reality, it takes most students more hours than the FAA requires anyway, just to get proficient enough to pass the checkrides. Look into this claim, and see exactly what it is (if anything) that they teach that other schools don't and decide if you think its worth the extra cost.

[bushmaster]

Ok, so when it comes time to get hired somewhere and I tell them I went to DCA opposed to local FBO, it's not like saying I went to Harvard opposed to community college?

If this is the case I guess I got it straight.

[Kristie]

Nope - the airlines don't care where you got your training.. what they do care about is that you have the qualifications to become one of their pilots and that you've had adequate training, hours and are a disciplined pilot that's going to stick around even through the tough times (part of why they like to see the 4 year degrees).

and just to clairify: Delta doesn't own DCA...

from doug: [ QUOTE ]
Delta bought Comair (the Airline) when it purchased Atlantic Southeast Airlines, both are delta connection.

Comair (the airline) owned a flight school named Comair (the school).

So Delta owns Comair, Comair owns Comair Academy (now known as DCA) but there's no direct connection between Comair (the flight school) and Delta Air Lines.

[/ QUOTE ] Hope this helps!

[H46Bubba]

That's what I thought, but when I started ground school for instrument, Delta sent some people down to audit all the courses the school provided. I even asked one of them and he said they were from Delta. I was puzzled. Why would Delta want to have anything to do with DCA, since Comair is the one that owns the school.

[bushmaster]

I'm still seriously considering DCA though. I can't use my GI Bill at any of my local FBO's. Having a wife and a child, the GI Bill will help out. I think.

Also, I just received a pamphlet from the VA today saying the GI Bill is going to start covering the costs of License or certifications.

You can receive reimbursement for tests taken on or after March 1, 2001. The tests must be specifically approved for the G.I. Bill.

The VA will only pay the exact cost of the test, upto $2,000 per test.

You are only eligible if you are or were active duty. Reservists, VEAP and DEA are not elibible.

Visit www.gibill.va.gov for more info.

If anyone has any other info as if this can be applyed to flight academy testing and certifications please post it. Thanks.

[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still seriously considering DCA though. I can't use my GI Bill at any of my local FBO's. Having a wife and a child, the GI Bill will help out. I think.

Also, I just received a pamphlet from the VA today saying the GI Bill is going to start covering the costs of License or certifications.

You can receive reimbursement for tests taken on or after March 1, 2001. The tests must be specifically approved for the G.I. Bill.

The VA will only pay the exact cost of the test, upto $2,000 per test.

You are only eligible if you are or were active duty. Reservists, VEAP and DEA are not elibible.

Visit www.gibill.va.gov for more info.

If anyone has any other info as if this can be applyed to flight academy testing and certifications please post it. Thanks.

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That's only reimbursement for the testing and/or certification fees. Forexample, you take your commercial checkride, and the checkride fee was $350. You can be reimbursed for $350 for that testing fee. Written cost you $75? You can be reimbursed for $75.

Hope this helps!!