From another employee

[sfb1123]

I've been reading through this board, and i just wanted to offer my 2 cents. It seems all i read on here is how if you go to DCA, you're going to have this or that happen to you, and blah blah blah. My advice to anyone is to do some research. Some would call coming to this board doing research, but its not. This place draws more people who hate everything DCA than anything else. I researched flight schools for nearly 2 years before i finally picked DCA. I talked with former instructors, current instructors, as well as students. I got the good, bad, and everything inbetween. I'll agree the advertising is not accurate, but i also found the advertising to be less than accurate at pretty much all the schools. I knew coming in how much it would cost me as well as how long it would take. I also knew how the standz break works, and how long you'll need to instruct to get your hours. I found that every school has something different to offer, and this had what i wanted. The problem comes when people come down here expecting to be done in X amount of days for X amount of dollars. They fail to understand that how you do depends solely on yourself. I've met a lot of not so good students that have expectations that would make senior captains take a step back. I've also met excellent students who get so down about certain things, their training takes a nose dive. Of course, to them, its all the academy's fault for their trouble. On the other hand, i know plenty of average students who keep their heads down, work their butts off, and finish with nothing but a big smile on their face. Its all about perception. Your expectations will be the biggest influence on your experience at this academy. The best advice i can give to anyone looking at going to this academy or any other, is to go visit, check out the facilities, and TALK with people who are currently there. Not just the people the academy sets you up with, go there on an off day and just talk to people hanging around. I met people who loved everything about it, and people who hated everything about it. The funny thing is, they didn't contradict each other. Some hated it for certain reasons, while others weren't really bothered. I found from my experience that ones expectations were the biggest determining factor.

I'm writing this because i really hate to see students come in without having a clue how things really work. Go do your homework, and make the best decision for yourself. After i did mine, i found DCA had what was best for me, and thats only been proven correct in my time here. No matter what, there will be things you will not like, but thats true no matter where you go. One thing i will say is that listening to the admissions officer is not a great idea. You have to work with them and listen, but it won't get you anywhere. Go talk with the blue and white shirts. I've found that they won't sugarcoat things. If they are unhappy, they will tell you, and that holds true on the other side as well. I have a feeling if everyone did their homework before rushing into a decision, there would be less hatred and bitterness for the academy that you see on this board.

[DE727UPS]

"Some would call coming to this board doing research, but its not."

I would disagree. I've seen some great threads here reference DCA and peoples experiences there, good and bad. At this forum, there is a lot more BS you have to wade through to get the info. But I think the info is there if you look for it and go far enough back. If you think it's bad here, you should check out DCA at flightinfo...

"I'll agree the advertising is not accurate, but i also found the advertising to be less than accurate at pretty much all the schools."

PanAm, DCA, and CAPT are the worst offenders. FSA and ATP aren't bad. Skymates is not only straight up, but they have a freakin' link to jetcareers.

"The best advice i can give to anyone looking at going to this academy or any other, is to go visit, check out the facilities, and TALK with people who are currently there. Not just the people the academy sets you up with, go there on an off day and just talk to people hanging around."

Amen.....

[sfb1123]

I see what you're saying, but finding good and accurate info on this site is very difficult. Heck, i just read a thread discouraging people from coming because delta may declare bankruptcy. Anyone that has any knowledge on the subject would know that won't have any effect on the academy. Also, i checked out all the schools you mentioned. I had some fairly large conerns with FS, which i won't get into. ATP was a very serious consideration, but after talking to some of their students and instructors, it quickly was dropped as well. I was looking into these schools with very specific things to look for, and DCA fit the bill best for me. Not saying its for everyone, because its most definitely not.

Advertising was probably the least of my concerns, but you are correct in your statement. That advertising does play a large role in people's expectations, like i ranted about before. Im of the personal opinion that the academy would be a lot more successful if it didn't sugarcoat anything, but thats probably why im not in marketing.

My biggest problem is people get themselves in over their head, and then blame anyone but themselves. I've seen it many times. If you really are serious about becoming a pilot, doing the necessary homework shouldn't be that much of a hassle. I had a great time visiting all the schools and trying to pick them apart.

[MCP]

[ QUOTE ]
I see what you're saying, but finding good and accurate info on this site is very difficult. Heck, i just read a thread discouraging people from coming because delta may declare bankruptcy. Anyone that has any knowledge on the subject would know that won't have any effect on the academy. Also, i checked out all the schools you mentioned. I had some fairly large conerns with FS, which i won't get into. ATP was a very serious consideration, but after talking to some of their students and instructors, it quickly was dropped as well. I was looking into these schools with very specific things to look for, and DCA fit the bill best for me. Not saying its for everyone, because its most definitely not.

[/ QUOTE ]

What were your concerns with FSA and what made you drop ATP as an option? I take no issue with people disliking an experience they have, I'd just like to hear people qualify their statements so those of us hoping to one day possibly attend one of these schools is presented with opinions from all sides.

"Fairly large concerns with FS, which I won't get into." Does not really help anybody at all. Nor does your comment pertaining to ATP. Any and ALL information is greatly appreciated!

Also, if you like DCA so much, why? Again, any and all information is greatly appreciated!

Many prospective students on this forum are more then likely possibly considering going to one of these schools. In that respect, hearing everything possible about these institutions can only help in the long run.

If you got something to say, say it. It may help somebody out.

[sfb1123]

Honestly, im not on here to throw stones at any other flight school. They all have something to offer. They just didn't suit me personally, thats all. The only point im trying to make is that DCA isn't the evil place many on here do their best to make it out to be. Go down there and find out for youself what its like. Its really not that hard. The one thing i will say is have an open mind and be flexible. If you're not one who can go with the flow and just take things as they come, you'll get frustrated, and probably end up on here badmouthing the school.

[DE727UPS]

"Also, i checked out all the schools you mentioned."

Understand that my mentioning of those schools in my previous post is only concerning marketing and advertising.

[gtrmantb]

"On the other hand, i know plenty of average students who keep their heads down, work their butts off, and finish with nothing but a big smile on their face. Its all about perception."

My question is why when you pay that amount of money to go to a flight school to get training should you have to "keep your head down"? I believe as a customer you have a right to make noise about things that are not what you expected.

[MuscleShirt]

[ QUOTE ]
"On the other hand, i know plenty of average students who keep their heads down, work their butts off, and finish with nothing but a big smile on their face. Its all about perception."

My question is why when you pay that amount of money to go to a flight school to get training should you have to "keep your head down"? I believe as a customer you have a right to make noise about things that are not what you expected.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are plenty of people here who spoke up as students, who went to customer service to complain, even some who have gone straight to Susan Burell. All of this did not keep them from getting hired on as instructors, and usually they tend to be the people who go one step above as a flight instructor.

So, I guess my point is, you don't have to "keep your head down" in order to get through DCA smoothly.

[tomahawk1]

Some would call coming to this board doing research, but its not."

I would disagree. I've seen some great threads here reference DCA and peoples experiences there, good and bad. At this forum, there is a lot more BS you have to wade through to get the info. But I think the info is there if you look for it and go far enough back. If you think it's bad here, you should check out DCA at flightinfo...

"I'll agree the advertising is not accurate, but i also found the advertising to be less than accurate at pretty much all the schools."

PanAm, DCA, and CAPT are the worst offenders. FSA and ATP aren't bad. Skymates is not only straight up, but they have a freakin' link to jetcareers.

"The best advice i can give to anyone looking at going to this academy or any other, is to go visit, check out the facilities, and TALK with people who are currently there. Not just the people the academy sets you up with, go there on an off day and just talk to people hanging around."

Amen.....

DE727,
This website is not a very informative and accurate website on all the schools. You cannot believe everything you read on the internet, and I believe you are not the type of person to do so. However, your posts do indicate otherwise since you seem to hate DCA only because of our marketing. I don't agree with marketing of any type, at any level. But if the product is good, its good and I will buy it after researching it and seeing for myself, before I come to any conclusions. I have been reading these posts here for sometime and found only half truths, knowing some of the situations that people discuss on these forums. Most people are not fully informed and don't have all the facts. I found that some of the people who complain about the academy have never vistited and or have very little aviation experience. When it comes to DCA marketing, there are some people who don't ask questions, they go on assumptions and then they get disappointed with their schools (NOT only DCA, but other schools as well) (i.e.some schools say, "we can make you an airline piIot in less than 10 monts") I have known students that have left other schools (even from the schools that advertise on this website) to come to DCA...Those students seem quite happy in comparing us the schools they left. So its not like DCA is the only 'offender.' People need to take accountability for themselves when it comes to flight training regardless of the school. I would suggest and even offer you to come and see Delta Connection Academy yourself and talk to our students and flight instructors. I know that you will get a totally different percpective on DCA! I'll even get you a ticket! Unless you have a layover at MCO. I know we have a UPS station there.

[DE727UPS]

"I know that you will get a totally different percpective on DCA!

Explain to me how visiting DCA will change my opinion of DCA marketing which I can can easily see by looking at their website?

[tomahawk1]

DE727,
Just because you don't like the marketing, doesn't mean we are a bad company and have a bad product. In fact, I am positive we have one of, if not the best product in flight training here at the academy. But if our marketing scares you off from a free trip here, then there is nothing more you should say about our school unless you come and see it yourself.

Don't let the big bad marketing monster scare you

[DE727UPS]

"But if our marketing scares you off from a free trip here, then there is nothing more you should say about our school unless you come and see it yourself."

A. I have better things to do with my time than go to Florida to see DCA. I volunteer my time with the kids at the YMCA skate park, that's a lot more fun.

B. I would hardly need a free ticket as I can fly anywhere in the world at no cost.

C. The bad things I say about your school are generally related to marketing and magazine ads. I can see them fine from here.

[tomahawk1]

"A. I have better things to do with my time than go to Florida to see DCA. I volunteer my time with the kids at the YMCA skate park, that's a lot more fun."

2209 posts on this website..... sounds like you have more time to spend here than you lead on.... You said on one post you make 150K per year and work 10 days..... I was offering a FREE positive space ticket on our airline and hotel.

[MCP]

[ QUOTE ]
"A. I have better things to do with my time than go to Florida to see DCA. I volunteer my time with the kids at the YMCA skate park, that's a lot more fun."

2209 posts on this website..... sounds like you have more time to spend here than you lead on.... You said on one post you make 150K per year and work 10 days..... I was offering a FREE positive space ticket on our airline and hotel.

[/ QUOTE ]


UPS has been on here since 2000. 2029 posts in almost 5 years isn't exactly spending a lot of time here. In fact, it is only about 1.1 posts here a day. In all actuality, an average person probably spends more time using the restroom each day then it would take to create 1.1 posts. I know I do. lol

[Doug Taylor]

Actually, I consider Don a member of the 'board of directors' and has been a part of Jetcareers for a long time. I'll run things past him, and sometimes I don't like the answer but I'll respect it because he's a "real" perspective and doesn't hesitate to forward me his opinion.

He's not a "yes man" or a "I'm going to name my first born after you" type and keeps it real.

In fact, Iain helped rescue him from the pilot-hating ranks of another much more popular website to a place pilots could chat and we could leave the Airbus versus Boeing crap to the marketers.

Not trying to blow sunshine up his skirt, but he's been a part of the community here for quite a while.

[DE727UPS]

"You said on one post you make 150K per year"

It was 140K

[luv2av8]

I love how the people who have absolutely no experience outside of the academy profess to have the best training...get over yourself. I would much rather have a 30,000 hour lifetime instructor teach me how to fly, over an FNG who first saw the cockpit of a plane last year and had a cram session for 8-12 months. The only thing this academy is good at is a cookie cutter pilot that is great flying in the sanford area, or that has to rely on IFR filing to get anywhere.

DCA is NOT! the best training, nor is it near the best. It just gives an airline interview at the end. The airlines like it because its easy to track the trainabiliy of the students who make it through the program. If you think the academy is the best, fine, but you better have an inkling of experience elsewhere to base your bias.

[DE727UPS]

"I love how the people who have absolutely no experience outside of the academy profess to have the best training...get over yourself."

What experience do you have with DCA?

[Crazy8]

[ QUOTE ]
I love how the people who have absolutely no experience outside of the academy profess to have the best training...get over yourself......... The only thing this academy is good at is a cookie cutter pilot that is great flying in the sanford area, or that has to rely on IFR filing to get anywhere.
DCA is NOT! the best training, nor is it near the best. It just gives an airline interview at the end. The airlines like it because its easy to track the trainabiliy of the students who make it through the program.......... If you think the academy is the best, fine, but you better have an inkling of experience elsewhere to base your bias.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to respond to this in different parts. First, most of us who profess the academy has the best training HAVE had training elsewhere and are making a comparison. And, by the way, it's a very small number making that claim. Second, calling us "cookie cutter" pilots is a compliment. That is what's called standardization. Maybe you've heard of it. It means all of your pilots are trained to operate consistently using the same procedures. Doing this places a greater emphasis on safety. Think the airlines want thousands of pilots just doin' their own thing up there. Thirdly, as far as not being able to fly out of the Sanford area, well, go ask the hundreds of Comair, Chautauqua, and ASA pilots who have graduated from here to see how they are doing. And, finally, how can you possibly rate our training if you yourself have no experience with DCA! If you think YOUR training is the best, fine, but you better have an inkling of experience elsewhere to base your bias. Sound familiar?

[planediveguy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love how the people who have absolutely no experience outside of the academy profess to have the best training...get over yourself......... The only thing this academy is good at is a cookie cutter pilot that is great flying in the sanford area, or that has to rely on IFR filing to get anywhere.
DCA is NOT! the best training, nor is it near the best. It just gives an airline interview at the end. The airlines like it because its easy to track the trainabiliy of the students who make it through the program.......... If you think the academy is the best, fine, but you better have an inkling of experience elsewhere to base your bias.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to respond to this in different parts. First, most of us who profess the academy has the best training HAVE had training elsewhere and are making a comparison. And, by the way, it's a very small number making that claim. Second, calling us "cookie cutter" pilots is a compliment. That is what's called standardization. Maybe you've heard of it. It means all of your pilots are trained to operate consistently using the same procedures. Doing this places a greater emphasis on safety. Think the airlines want thousands of pilots just doin' their own thing up there. Thirdly, as far as not being able to fly out of the Sanford area, well, go ask the hundreds of Comair, Chautauqua, and ASA pilots who have graduated from here to see how they are doing. And, finally, how can you possibly rate our training if you yourself have no experience with DCA! If you think YOUR training is the best, fine, but you better have an inkling of experience elsewhere to base your bias. Sound familiar?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't waste your time with him Crazy8... he is currently at DCA as an instructor... and as judging by the tone of his posts, the kind of guy that got picked upon at school a lot....

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
<snip>
... and as judging by the tone of his posts, the kind of guy that got picked upon at school a lot....

[/ QUOTE ]

ad hominem

[planediveguy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<snip>
... and as judging by the tone of his posts, the kind of guy that got picked upon at school a lot....

[/ QUOTE ]

ad hominem

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you are right... he doesn't need anyone else picking on him...

I don't argue the fact that an experienced teacher is invaluable. I myself got trained by the "Yoda" of Scuba Diving. I agree at some length on that point.

But for someone that works at DCA he hits off the mark so many times... I actually had an individual like that working for me once. Everything was always wrong, everyone was full of B.S., the world stinks, the job stinks and etcetera.... He will make for a "wonderful company" on a 4 day trip for some poor captain someday...

And as far as training goes... I also had to deal with students that got their ratings on the "outside" and I have seen a good sample of screw-ups. From instrument certified pilots that could not fly in IMC ( I'm talking basic straight and level flight here) to CFI's that could not explain in simple terms why an airplane flies.

But the comment that I find most interesting... I have been asking my friends that are finishing their initial training at the regionals... some of them tell me, and now savour this as it won't last long : - " I spent too much money at DCA and did too much work! My SIM partner went to "Ben and Jerry's" and spent half of what I did on his FBO!".

Then, and as I said it would not last long, I asked my old Instructors at the Academy that have been flying for the Regionals for over an year ( some of them upgrading to Captain on ERJs) and they tell me: - " I am glad I spent that money on DCA... I cannot tell you how many times I saved my certificates when I prevented the non-academy trained Captain from doing something dumb!" And for those that complained about NDB apporaches...One of those guys actually had to fly an NDB on the CRJ since the Captain did not know how...and other funny stories too numerous to post here.

Have fun, and I don't mind when you pick on me...

[luv2av8]

same old story every time...yeah there are a tons of screw ups elsewhere, but thats industry wide my friend. There are a fair share of screw ups at DCA. Like the instructor that was lost not more than 5 iles from the airport, and thought a lake was the ocean. I could spit off enough screw ups here to choke a donky. And sir, the problem with OUR cookie cutter pilots is that the only guidline to operate under is our TCO. the only flying we prepare anyone for is that in our territory, or in IFR. I have had testimony from many a pilot that airline flying is much easier than the crap we do to get to that airline. As much as a hyperbole as it may be, how hard is it to crank on an outopilot, or for that matter to manipulate a craft of their size. Its not! And we train our students less towards a stardard in stick and rudder, and more for a base knowledge...which is mighty flawed for the money thats been fronted. I could but two semesters of aviation classes by a seasoned veteran of teaching for the same price of one groundschool by an FNG whose every other word is "breaking primacy" For those of you that dont know my standpoint and how I and my friend, or as you call it my alias...whatever, read up on info about DCA from an employee. As much as you may think its a lie, put it togather for yourself. I havent lied yet.

Remember when I said key was pulling out? NOOOO that couldnt happen! stop spreading half truths they said....what happened?

I work at DCA, and have trained at many other FBOs in a span of quite a few years. Thats my experience here UPS. Im a fun guy, and love to fly, and for that matter I think id have a great time with my captain, and id have a great time as a captain, but I refuse to sit idle and let my future co-workes and friends be shafted the way I and many others were.

I know you that attend here spent alot of money and you want to justify your debt somehow, and im making that really hard for ya. You will get where you're going too, just dont make everyone behind you do it the same way. Let them know what they are up against...don't sugar coat it

Anyone still up for the bet that the new aircraft are going to houston?

rumor says they have future plans to shut down sanford. a bit far fetched, but any thoughts?

[FO_SHIZZLE]

[ QUOTE ]
but I refuse to sit idle and let my future co-workes and friends be shafted the way I and many others were.

[/ QUOTE ]

So please tell us what positive steps you are taking to remedy this, besides complaining on an internet forum. Anybody can sit back and find fault with something, heck anything.

I'll take up your bet on the new aircraft. Last I heard from Maint. and people actually involved in the process, not other instructors, was that they were 172s, similar to our models except they are putting Garmin430's in them.

BTW, are you saying Key did pull out? Where did you get that bit of info? First I've heard of such things. Feel free to elaborate.

[Wannabe2]

Luv, if you were paying attention, I already said I would take that bet, and I think Muscleshirt did too.