Info about DCA from an employee

[l82av8]

the following is a real report about dca.
Average flight hours (per month) 5000
Cost for instructors $54 per hour
Pay for instructors $10 per hour
(The last time dca gave instructors a raise was in 2000, from 7.75 to the current 10, yet they have raised the prices they charge for instructors countless times)
that comes to $22,000 per month just off the flight instructors, which is just over $2.9 million each year profit off instructors just for the time that they spend in the airplane. This doesnt include groundwork, sim/pcatd time, orals, or flight briefing time. Also as an instructor at DCA you must do an immense amount of redundant paperwork. Sometimes a folder for one student can take hours to correct. Then they pay someone to look over the folder, write the problems down, and even if they are simple, stupid problems, send in the instructor to fix it. For all of this work instrucors are paid, yep, you guessed it nada.
Ground school at DCA is insane. The cost at last bay for commercial ground school was $4900 for the 45 hour course. The only cost to dca is the instructor who is paid $450 for his/her time. So charge is 10.8 times what they pay out.
The cost of one of their student housing apartments is $515/month, so that comes out to $1030/month for two people, while the rent at the apartment complex is only $675.
Until recently, dca would take all the money that student got from their loans (primarily key bank) and would place the money in an account in their name and collect all the interest for themselves. And when you have 300 students with $80,000 a piece, thats alot of interest. Recently however, key has gotten hold of this and was to say the least, very, very unhappy. So to keep key happy, the school started an escrow account program where your funds are put in an escrow account instead. key also made it a requirement that all funds be sent to the student, not the school.
The school realized that they were loosing money on their jet bridge trainer (which is a cheap ftd where only about a third of the switches are actually there, the rest are just stickers), so they decided to put a program in the students contract that says that student HAVE to take a short 6 hour course in the trainer for a mere $800. this has also been known to cause a students progress during the multi course grind to a halt because of the fact that dca does not let the student proceed unless this course has been taught.
The school charges $175 per faa written exam. if there are 300 students that go through the entire course in a year then that comes to $315,000 when the only cost to them is a woman they have in the room, and i guarantee they dont pay her all that much.
When asked, the customer service representative will say that dca is only operating in a profit margin of 12-15%. But as far as i have seen since i have been here, there are very, very few things that dca does that they dont make an immense profit on.
I was kind of conflicted while i typed this because my motto has always kind of been, dont bite the hand that feeds the mouth. i work for dca and if no students come, i dont get hours. But then reality hit me and i realized that if someone had told me all of this, i wouldnt have came. What do you think about this?

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Very enlightening writeup. I wonder how much upper management makes. Is there any documentation for that?

[montanapilot]

absolutely disgusting. Thanks for sharing. Hopefully it will wake up some of those who are starry eyed about this place.

[DE727UPS]

"What do you think about this?"

What I think is, if you're an employee of DCA, you better hope nobody finds out who you really are, otherwise, they're gonna whack your pee pee.

But that's one hell of a ballsy first post.....

[H46Bubba]

Wow!!!!!! He's got some big ones to post that. As the days progress the more I'm glad of the decisions I've mad and am glad to not flight instruct. Basicaly the QOL at DCA sucks! When i had my interview for Comair the lady asked me how much I was making and how much the pay increases were. When i told her how much I was being paid and how non existant pay increases were, she laughed and said "And I thought we were cheap!" When iwas was an employee, I was treated like a kid. I had more life experience and qualifications than my supervisor, but she treated me as though I was some kid who came to DCA and needed a job and had no aviation supply/maintenance qualifications at all. Just before I left, they started to come up with little projects to do to keep everyone busy. I'm glad I left!

[Pirep]

It's obvious you guys have never run a business. The amount of overhead not mentioned by the original poster shows they are a bit naive in this arena. Granted the school does make a good profit (or at least they used to), but all of these earnings are not even close to "profits" as the original poster would suggest. I'm not defending DCA's methods to make a profit (I think they could do a much better job towards being a long term profit maker instead of just trying to hit numbers short term), but until you actually see the balance sheet, I wouldn't try and paint a picture unless you have all of the paint first. Then when you do, then you can speak with authority.

Oh, and on the student loan thing keeping all the money in an account? That's a bunch of B.S. The only people that would keep all of the money in their accounts at school were the ones too stupid to take it out. The only amount I would ever keep in my student account is enough to start a particular rating. In fact I was able to start ratings with money left over from the rating I just received that wasn't used. Yes, I came in under budget. It can be done if you work and study hard.

[Pirep]

I82av8- after reading your post again, it really shows how naive your understanding is of the costs associated with running a business. Please do a little more research, then with both sides of the story, let's see how your response is then. I wish when I ran companies that I was able to use your logic of accounting, the profit margin would have been astounding! but it wasn't. Always those pesky other costs had to be paid. It eats the heck out of your so-called "profits".

[luv2av8]

glad someone got the balls to post this. I am an employee myselfand ive got a bit to say about the place. For starters, any new or prospective student should know about the micro managment techniques used by the managment here. You are to tell your group manager EVERYTHING! Any change to a schedule, and problem you have had with an aircraft, you are to show up to sit and wait for hours at a time with no pay while your student is on a stage check. The point about their ACR (people who audit files) is completely true. The spend hours going through folders to find the mistakes you may have made, whether it is forgeting to dot an i or forgetting to check a box. They take the time to describe the error, write an excerpt, and sign off on it, but they wont dot your i...you gotta take the time to go in there and fix them all, also not paid. They say they have an accident free record. HA! Not hardly! They have had 4 to my knowledge and I think they just recently had another due to a microbust, which is certainly misfortunate. Loren Heren, a current group manager professes that if he finds anyone using a cell phone next to a truck there will be diciplinary action filed...cuz we all know the 50watt or so radios in our aircraft are far less powerful than thos cumbersome cellphones, lol. To top it off, the previous director of training (past) mentioned to all of his instructors during a monthly meeting that he elected to refuse payment for all pilots who took time away from family and other work to evacuate our fleet from the hurricanes...because he would lose a "chunk" of his christmas bonus...How flattering.

So off of the managment subject, because I could go on forever. To respond to the previous post, lets explore their profits. The PCATD's operate an average of about 50 hours a day (3 of them, sometimes only 2 run) those run $55 an hour plus the $44 for the instructor, 54 minus the 10 for the instructor pay. thats $5450 daily, The sims are near aircraft price at $74/hr I think, there 5 of them with one multi which is more expensive. Lets say they run 8hrs a day which is reasonable, which ranks in at $4720 daily. The upkeep on these machines is minimal. I think $2000 a month is reasonable for a system that is inferior to microsoft flight sim. This brings us to $305,100 revenue minus $2000 per MONTH! In just the sim hall!

On to the airplanes I believe that 5,000 hours per month is on the low side for an average at DCA. But il use it for the sake of arguement. 152 72/hr 172 is 98/hr arrow is 140/hr seminole 198/hr. Some fly more than others so ill take a weighted average of 135/hr. 135/hr plus 44/hr brings us to a menial 895 THOUSAND dollars. We are at 1.2 million monthly now.

Each flight has a minimum of .5 briefing time. The average flight is near 1.5hrs long, so there are near 3,333 flights monthly. This comes to 73,333 a month for doing absolutly nothing but watching their underpaid instructor teach. Now we consider that instructors have to teach their students on the ground. I really dont feel like punching these numbers but ill bet it approximates the vicinity of 50,000 a month. The cost for testing as stated above was 315,000 yearly. There are many other sources of income for this place, but im not going to list them. So as it stands, the revenue for DCA without taking into consideration their tricks like stealing your loan interest, is 1.35 Million dollars.

Now lets talk operating costs. The school leases the building from the airport. Having owned a 172, I know from experience that with todays fuel prices, it costs roughly 45/hr including overhaul funds, inspections, insurance and a little piggy bank for the unexpected. They have their own maintenance fleet and but gas in bulk, which dramatically cuts the operating cost. But their insurance is understandably higher. So we'll just slice the aircraft revenue in half to 600,000 monthly, the sims will remain at 300,000. As will the other factors. I get 750,000 monthly with nothing to pay for but the building, utilities, and wages. MX requires 48,000 with 20 people, and instructors will not be counted because I already took the 10 from the cost of an instructor. I dont believe the low managment positions and other staff will take no more than 150,000. DCA runs SFB without a doubt and have held a lease there fur 15 years, so they get it ULTRA ULTRA cheap, im saying at the most 10,000 a month plus another 1000 for utilities. So you dont have to do the math, I get 541,000 in PROFIT!!!!!!! any negligible details like advertising and taxes I may have left out I believe will have been compensated for by factors I neglected to mention.

out of this $541,000 a month profit, it would cost them 20,000 to simply increase instructor wages by 5/hr! Just 20,000!! The place makes 6.5 million dollars a year in friggin profit!

In short, if thats possible anymore. I have found that this place is an atrocious place to work at, and as a student, you ar far better of keeping your $120,000 (yes, my roommate is at 130,000) and going to your local FBO. You will get to the airlines just as quick if you work hard and study! They promise 1 year instructing and your done. I have been in the same group for 8mos and logged 135 hours! I need 800 to finish! This is typical unless you are one of the few in the right place at the right time, Like Fabio. Whom I have also worked with.

[l82av8]

Well thanks for coming out of the woodwork with me luv2av8. Kind of sorry though that you got to the previous post before i did. In reading my original post i mentioned profit once, and then what they say they have as a profit margin. If anyone who read my post as a testiment to pure profit I apologize.
I however, never even went into cost, or for that matter i onlymentioned, as you see above, a fraction of their income producing ventures.
Now, I have read, as many instructors from DCA do, this site's forum for quite some time, and everyone always complained that no one from dca ever spoke about the place. Well things started happening about 3 weeks ago that drove me to the point of letting loose of the "secret" as all the instructors call it.
Now, as for pirep, if you have run a business, you should know how utterly important workplace morale is, especially with employees who are in direct contact with your customers. Well at this place, morale would have a hard time getting lower. When you are a person who works an average amount of time (usually) and you have to sometimes make the decision between rent and food, you tend to be........................well, hate to use the word, but disgruntled, and evidently so much so to keep my fellow man from following my footsteps and repeating my fate. I know some very educated and qualified people who are, after all, professionals mind you that are doing a job that requires alot of work, and they are on foodstamps! Just so you know, i know most of the people who defend dca, and they generally make enough money to at least be able to eat.
Right now the academy is kind of top heavy ( have too many instructors) and therefore, students seem to be harder and harder to come by, especially in the lower groups(instrument/private).
I think that as time goes on more and more instructors are going to come out and publicly bash the academy. When i was a student the school had problems but the instructors didnt really talk about it in front of students. Now, as morale has decreased, many instructors are speaking out. Lets see how long it takes management to issue a "gag order" memo.

I am right now working exact numbers that i can give you at a later date. stay tuned boys and girls.

[DE727UPS]

While I find your posts interesting, changing your screen name and talking to yourself gives you no credibility. It sounds like being at DCA is making you go crazy...

[rausda27]

[ QUOTE ]
While I find your posts interesting, changing your screen name and talking to yourself gives you no credibility. It sounds like being at DCA is making you go crazy...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sniff Sniff...

I would of expected moderator mike to blow the case wide open if these two were actually the same person..

[luv2av8]

lol, I appreciate your cander. You always have been a cynical one 727. Im definately not the same person, But I can take a few guesses as to who it is. BTW, anyone want ANY dirt at all on this place, feel free to ask.

[whaleroast]

While I find your posts interesting, changing your screen name and talking to yourself gives you no credibility. It sounds like being at DCA is making you go crazy...

Thinking the same thing.

[rausda27]

[ QUOTE ]
lol, I appreciate your cander. You always have been a cynical one 727. Im definately not the same person, But I can take a few guesses as to who it is. BTW, anyone want ANY dirt at all on this place, feel free to ask.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why dont you just tell us?

[luv2av8]

I assure you I am me, lol. Think what you will, but the information is irrefutable. Its much easier to quell rumors when asked, but ill try to post everything I can think of.

Oh by the way they are charging $40 a pop to all students for the new ops manual. Its nothing more than a fancy AIM, with some company policies. And I had a student disenroll because his stage check pilot knew less than he did. I have a good friend that was fired because he stood up for his student when an examiner was wrong and wanted to fail him. The words out of the chief pilots mouth were "what the f#$% do you think you're doing to our system when you decredit a check airman in fronnt of a student"...what system would that be bill? Another friend that overflew a 100hr inspection because the numbers on the release sheet told him he had 4 more hours than he really did, yet the plane was dispatched anyway. Ill keep them coming folks, but id say the number one reason not to attend this academy, is simply because the regional airlines are hiring people off the street with far fewer hours these days, and you are just as well off, if not BETTER off training at an FBO where you can log 1000hs in a year, as apposed to 3 years at the academy

[Pirep]

[ QUOTE ]
Another friend that overflew a 100hr inspection because the numbers on the release sheet told him he had 4 more hours than he really did, yet the plane was dispatched anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is totally your friends fault. Hopefully he isn't blaming anyone else for this but himself. You always look at the #'s on the inspection sheet IN the can, not the release sheet on top of the can. The dispatchers can add wrong. It's up to the PIC to make sure it's right when they accept the plane. If something doesn't add up, get it checked out with mx. Totally your friends fault.

[luv2av8]

Im not going to delgate blame for an occurence for which I am not completely familiar with. But because the responsibility lies with the pilot in command, fault can be multi faceted. In a rebutle, a mechanic had vouched for him in taking blame, and those MX papers that are in the can are very rarely legal documents because the mechanic hasnt stamped his approval. For that matter, I think you would be supprised to see how often those numbers are inaccurate. In any case, its really immaterial, they publish values on a release, and therfore join the club at fault. It appears you really have nothing to add constructivly to this arguement, but rather attempt to justify the wrongs this place has done. Im guessing you are in some degree of magament or are independantly wealthy.

BTW, In your contract you waive the right to trial by jury, you arent allowed to work for anyone in direct competition for 12mos (no flight instruction anywhere DCA is) after you leave, you cant unionize, or for that matter, do ANYTHING that would benefit the human rights. The place sickens me and I can only hope more employees speak out on here

[project7]

[ QUOTE ]
While I find your posts interesting, changing your screen name and talking to yourself gives you no credibility. It sounds like being at DCA is making you go crazy...



[/ QUOTE ]

I have to go with Don on this one. The syntax and grammar in both of the posts is pretty much identical.

[luv2av8]

great minds think alike if I was the same person, would it matter? I think the purpose of his post was to educate the public from an inside source. And for those of you who would like to stay on topic, id love to entertain you too.

btw, story from RAA. 9 of 16 instructor candidates went to RAA on their standz break to instruct. They are ALL working for the airlines now, and had secured a job before their commrades even started their standz class. The story is similar around the country. Spend as little money and dedicate yourself as much as you can, and you will succeed.

[Wannabe2]

luv2av8,

Not arguing with all of your points here, but a few things you said rubbed me the wrong way.

First off, it sounds like you should get out of here man. If you are really that miserable, go find an instructing gig you like. Life is way too short to let this place, or any other, make you so bitter.

Your friend that was fired was not only fired for questioning a stage check instructor (in front of the student, it certainly should have been done in private), but for numerous offenses that I won't go into...

Also, I agree that it was the instructor's fault for not checking the maintenance log. He got a raw deal in that maintenance handed him a plane without enough time on the hobbs, but had he checked, he would have seen that. Again, yes, occasionally those numbers in the "can" are incorrect, but in this instance they were right and the correct info was there for the discovering if he had looked. I don't see how you can argue that, "...have nothing to add constructivly to this arguement...". It is certainly very constructive to mention this fact...

If you knew of all of the "human rights violations" in the DCA instructor contract, why on earth did you sign it?

[PhilosopherPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
great minds think alike if I was the same person, would it matter? I think the purpose of his post was to educate the public from an inside source. And for those of you who would like to stay on topic, id love to entertain you too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure it matters... You may make good points, but you lose credibility when you try to pull the wool over people's eyes.

I'm not saying you did submit both of the posts, but they sure do look similar.

Mike, any input?

G

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying you did submit both of the posts, but they sure do look similar.

Mike, any input?

G

[/ QUOTE ]

The Goon Squad is checking into it......

[l82av8]

Well this is interesting isnt it everyone. Well, to everyone out there, I assure you that I am my own man. I will do whatever I can to prove this, but since there is no way I can, there is nothing out there but my word. I guess time will tell you that both I, and luv2av8, are in fact, two seperate people. But on to bigger and better things. Still working the exact numbers for those interested in that part of my post but I figured I would add to the story telling about DCA. I remember a guy who worked at DCA, who was suspended for something that he didnt even do. When he was waiting on an aircraft one day, the person prior to him was late by more than 30 min. So when the person finally returned, he confronted the individual and meet the following reply
"Its my airplane and Ill keep it out as long as I want"
The flight instructor then simply stated "well, you could have called at least." This is when the other guy decided that he was going to fist fight the flight instructor and proceeded to drag the flight instructor outside to fight. The instructor did nothing wrong, witnesses were present for the ordeal, and yet, DCA management decided to not only suspend the instructor, but also put a report in his HR file. By the way, the "other guy" was a JAA DPE that the academy used.
Now for the part that shows how unbelievably consistant management is. There was a new instructor that took one of the aircraft on the hurricane evacuations, and we had all of our aircraft at minimal IFR enroute seperation. Just prior to reaching his next VOR, he asked if he was cleared direct to the next VOR, he was told, undoubtedly due to congestion, no. Therefore, when he reached the VOR the instructor entered a hold and caused a loss of seperation with the aircraft behind him. Then less than two weeks later, he took off from the wrong runway at a busy airport, and forced a 767 that had been released to abort its takeoff. And heres what happened to him. He got no diciplanary action taken against him, got nominated for instructor of the month, and then was moved to another base, where, as far as I know, he still works today.

[luv2av8]

Well phil, I signed that contract for the same reason everyone else does. Hell half the instructors there dont even read it. We are eager to see the 100k we spent make a means to an end and are blinded by our debt. On another not, youre right, I am unfortunately bitter, but it costs money to make money, and if I could afford to take a month from my $400-900/month pay, yeah thats what im paid, then I would. But the reality of the matter is that once your in, its very hard to get out without some other source of finances. As for my 2 anecdotes, I wont defend the 100hr infraction after pondering it a bit, but the man who was fired for the check pilot deal. That is certainly the right place for it to occur. As a student I would love to have known my instructor had my back, and that he was teaching me right! Oh, he told me the reason HR gave him for firing him was because the FAA came by and didnt like his VFP folder...VFP isnt even an FAA approved curriculum and they dont look at those folders. Another couple individuals fired for doing ground instruction during PCATD lessons in the commercial group! 10 hours of microsoft flight sim in commercial? Staring at a computer screen while on a XC? How instructional...I think it would be great to teach then something usefull during that time.

Its my oppinion that the school is getting top heavy and really needs to start draining the white shirts. I think the students went from mid 400's to high 200's in a matter of months...howabout that.

Im happy to see you can remain so happy where you are Phil, but you are an astute individual and I refuse to believe that you dont see the moral of everyone swirling down the drain. I dont know why all of you group leaders need to try to advertise for the academy

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
When he was waiting on an aircraft one day, the person prior to him was late by more than 30 min. So when the person finally returned, he confronted the individual and meet the following reply
"Its my airplane and Ill keep it out as long as I want"
The flight instructor then simply stated "well, you could have called at least." This is when the other guy decided that he was going to fist fight the flight instructor and proceeded to drag the flight instructor outside to fight. The instructor did nothing wrong, witnesses were present for the ordeal, and yet, DCA management decided to not only suspend the instructor, but also put a report in his HR file. By the way, the "other guy" was a JAA DPE that the academy used.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool...another DPE who's ass I'd love to kick.....especially with an attitude like that!

Give him a MikeD special ass-kicking, free of charge.

If these stories are true, then DCA is more of a clown act than I thought.