My experience at DCA for those looking to attend

[gtrmantb]

I am a current student at DCA, and I would like to let you know first hand what my experiences have been. First of all I am an older student, 34, who had a professional career before I came here. The first thing I would like to say is that the curriculum is very good. All the lessons are logical and were well planned, however, they are unrealistic. I thoroughly believe that they were planned not to give you the best education, but to be able to quote you a price for training. Many times you feel like you don't have a grasp on something completely, but the lesson plan requires you to keep moving, and once you do have a grasp on it, no reinforcement is provided. Many of the pro-DCA members will say that it is like this everywhere and that you can request more time to spend with your instructor. This may be true, but for new prospective students the price quote they are given is what they are expecting to pay, so be forewarned, if you have to take extra flights, you're gonna pay for them. Secondly, even though they're are many great instructors at DCA, there are just as many bad ones. Remember, these instructors are brand new. They were students right before they became instructors. Now most of my instructors have been very good, but don't be fooled, they are learning with you. I don't have a problem with that, but to charge $54 an hour for an instructor with little or no experience is outrageous! By the way the instructor only gets $10 of that.
Management at the school is very poor, and here's my take on that. Middle management, the people that students deal with most of the time, are composed of former students who for one reason or another decided to stay on with DCA. They have little or no power except over you as a student, and with my experience, like to talk down to you to make themselves feel more powerful. I've had 2 instances, one in the private group and one in the instrument group, where the group managers have talked to me like I was still in high school when I went to them with legitimate problems. I was a school teacher before I came to DCA, and these people treated me like I was a school kid. The way my problems were handled made me more angry than the initial problem. On the positive side of that some suggestions that have been made are in the process of being implemented, so while I don't like the way I was treated, at least an effort is being made to change. The main problem with that entire situation is we are told from day 1 we are customers, and we are, but we are not treated as such. You either have to run a school like a school or run it like a business. DCA needs to decide this, you can't do both.
The fleet is older than many of the students who attend. No GPS in any of the 152's or 172's, and expect maintainence problems. These airplanes are so old they're runninng on rubber bands and super glue, j/k. In the instrument program alone I have had 4 cancellations because of maintainence issues. Many times something is written up on an airplane only to be put back into service with the comment "equipment tested to standards no problem found". Guess what happens, it does the same thing to the next person who flies the aircraft, and gets written up again. I understand things break, but to not dig a little deeper to find a problem that has been written up is crazy. I have seen 3 and 4 write ups for the same problem within 2 weeks time. Most of the radios are substandard in the planes, they are noisy or work intermittantly. Most planes have no interior cockpit lighting, so doing night flights is always a challenge. I had an ADF that my instructor literally had to hold the whole flight so it would work in order for us to do NDB tracking.
Also realize that the price they quote includes nothing but the bare minimum flight time and ground school, no books, no uniforms, no extra anything. I came not knowing this and was told I couldn't pay for it with my account had to charge it on a credit card. Oh and if you ask why ground school doesn't allow time for discussion, they'll tell you you should get with your flight instructor to go deeper into a subject. Wait a minute, why am I paying all this money for ground school if I'm gonna have to go over this stuff with my flight instructor anyway at $54 an hour?
All this boils down to my biggest problem with DCA, they are all about money. Yes they are a business and a business is designed to make money, but to make money you do not have to gouge your customers. We pay enough money in tuition that we should have brand new planes, not a year from now when we won't benefit from them. Take for instance ground work with your flight instructor, the school gets $54 an hour and gives the instructor $10. Now DCA is getting $44 an hour for that instructor to give me his or her knowledge. They are not using anything of DCA's other than a table and a light, but yet they only get $10 an hour to DCA's $44. Many of the issues with DCA I could let slide if the price was more in line with what you get, but at the price they charge it's just not worth it. They will never say it but everyone feels that if they speak out when something's wrong, they won't get hired as an instructor or the instructor won't get his or her job interview. Everyone at DCA needs to wake up and realize that when you're paying this kind of money for an education it's your right to raise hell if everything's not up to your expectations. If DCA doesn't do something soon then those poor instructors who have hardly any students are gonna have even less. Plus, look at it this way, as an instructor you're going to make only $10 an hour and that's only when you either log flight time or ground work with students nothing else. So you may put in 40 hours in a week and only get paid for 20. Also most instructors have only one student and many have none, so try making your rent payment with that.
In conclusion my advice to anyone considering DCA is a resounding NO. Take that money and go somewhere where that dollar will go a lot further. Don't let the guaranteed interview sway you. That interview is only guaranteed if you make it through the instructor phase. The school part is easy because that loan money keeps you going, but that loan money disappears when you're an instructor. That's the hard part, and remember it's only the interview they guarantee not the job. Don't be fooled by their marketing, a turd is still a turd, no matter how much you try to polish it.

[gtpilot]

What did you finish through, BTW?

[DE727UPS]

Being a school teacher is a much more honorable and important job than being an airline pilot. At the same time, I don't blame you for wanting to switch careers. My work with kids means a lot more to me than the fact that I'm an airline pilot...but that's just me. If I did it full time or in another capacity than as a volunteer, it would probably drive me crazy. It's a shame someone like you can't come on here and recommend DCA to others. I'm sorry for your situation.

I have to ask you. Why did you choose DCA? How did you find out about Jetcareers and would you have done anything different had you seen this site before you committed to DCA?

[gtrmantb]

As for what rating I went through, currently I am still there almost finished with instrument. However, I don't plan to finish the rating at DCA.

I learned of DCA through Scuba Diving magazine and went to the school and actually got a tour from an instructor not the normal "advisor" tour. The tour I got although very praiseful of the school was a little more realistic than what the official tour tells you. I chose DCA for the same reason everyone else does, the "guaranteed" interview and the Delta name. I also looked into the Capt program but turned away from that because of the legal issues they were having. Flight Safety was another option but they only had a "direct" option with ASA. I researched coming to the school for about a year before committing. I didn't know about this board but I found flightinfo.com. There were many negative post about DCA, but a lot of those were so negative that they seemed to be posted from either people who resented pilots who "didn't pay their dues" or from students who couldn't cut it. I can tell you that I have never made less than a 90 on any ground school test and made a 100 on my last FAA written. I've never busted a stage check, so for those thinking that maybe I am a bad student, that's not the case. I can tell you for a fact that out of $60,000 in loan disbursements, I have $28,000 left and I'm not through with instrument. I have only done a few extra flights in addition to the ones required, and believe me, unless you were born with wings, you'll do some extra flights.
I only found this board after I was well into my private course at DCA and have "lurked" here for awhile. I actually found this board through a link at the ATP website when I started looking to change schools. DCA works for some people. There are people who get hired, and I'm not knocking those people, but I can tell you that 98% figure they quote is the 98% that 1)don't go bankrupt and have some other form of income and 2)have a lot of time to spend instructing (they'll tell you it's only a year instructing, but at the current student to instructor ratio it's probably closer to 2 years. Plus don't forget about the STANDZ break which is currently at 4 months.

[DE727UPS]

"I can tell you for a fact that out of $60,000 in loan disbursements, I have $28,000 left and I'm not through with instrument"

Would it be accurate to say you've gone from zero time to almost having your instrument rating and you've spent 32K on that so far?

[FO_SHIZZLE]

So of that $32,000 spent, did you take any out for living expenses, etc., or did you spend all of that 32,000 on your training. Also, if you don't mind me asking how many hours you have so far, I'm not trying to question you or anything, cause I'm definately not denying that it is expensive, I'm just trying to do a little math for myself.

[gtrmantb]

Yes I've taken $10,000 out for living expenses, and yes I basically started from 0 time ( I had about 7 hours). But come on $22,000 and not finished with instrument, that's ridiculous. However I live very frugally, and even if it's not part of the money I give DCA, it's still part of the money required for training, and also that amount doesn't count what I've had to spend on books, plates, charts and every other "incidental" they don't tell you about until you get there. And everyone else who started with me has either spent close to that or more. And I have about 94 hours total time.

[FO_SHIZZLE]

I'm not saying that's not alot, I was just curious cause 32 seemed way out of hand even for DCA. I would however stay until you finished instrument. If you go to another 141 program, you will only get credit for half of your time or something like that, don't recall right off the top of my head. If you go to a part61 then you have to get the 50XC time, so really think about that. If you are going to leave I would definately wait until after instrument. Best of luck with everything and sorry about your situation.

[viper548]

You can just as easily get the airline job by getting your ratings at a mom and pop FBO at about half the cost. I've done training under 141 and 61. 141 can be good or bad. Any decent instructor will use a syllabus, even under part 61. The mom and pop places don't have to pass the cost of thier decieving full page adds in flying mags on to thier students.

[FO_SHIZZLE]

With the hiring going on like it is, I agree with you. Hopefully that will keep up. All I was saying is it is not very smart to leave a 141 program in the middle of a rating. Wait until after that particular rating is done.

[planediveguy]

Dude if you see things at DCA like you have described, the place clearly is not for you.

We are losing a lot of our instructors with the guaranteed interview... as they are all getting hired. We ran two bridge classes this month and that 4 month wait for standz will shorten real soon as we need instructors to replace the ranks.

As far as the price quoted versus the real amount spent... that is old news. however I have seen both ends of the spectrum. Some people do finish within the budget, although rare. And some people spend so much money in unsat lessons and review flights that it's insane. The average is to buffer the quoted price by 25% ( in my case I spent 28% over quota). I knew that in advance and knew that the instructor income is very low. Now there are ways to manage that. If you have no spouse paying your bills and you need to use the loan money for living expenses,(I know people that blew money intended as living expenses on a Bike!...) then you need to think on living expenses for 2 years. After about 8 months as an instructor you would have enough work to pay for your bills. And get a side job at the school. Some instructors get jobs as fuelers, some as flight supervisors and there are other part time positions available that could help with your budget.

Sorry to hear that you were talked down to. Wouldn't happen on my watch...
If you see me around school ( if you are still there) and need help with instrument training, specially NDB's, feel free to ask I will be glad to help!

[jaxpilot]

great post man, a lot of the same things I experienced and that is what led me to leave DCA and finish my ratings elsewhere. Hopefully, potential students will read about your experience and it will sway them to spend their money more wisely at a company that actually cares about the students progress (without saying "well, you're having trouble, looks like you need a review flight, lets just dig into that rapidly draining account of yours, now bend over cuz here it comes") and invests in newer equipment.

[trac]

I am fairly new to this forum and was considering DCA, however thanks to many candid post I can say this is no longer an option. Thanks

[gtrmantb]

All I can say is if you're considering DCA, ask yourself this question: "Why is a school that is so big on being 'customer oriented' having to defend itself so much from its customers?" Planediveguy I respect your comments, but this is not just my perception. "My perception" is running rampant through that school, and the reason is DCA lies to their potential customers, who then come and find out that they don't get what they've paid for. There is no way you can honestly say that paying $80,000 and up for training in old 152's, 172's, FTD sims, and PCATDs with inexperienced instructors (not a knock on DCA instructors, because many are very good, just a fact) is worth that.

[gtpilot]

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We are losing a lot of our instructors with the guaranteed interview... as they are all getting hired. We ran two bridge classes this month and that 4 month wait for standz will shorten real soon as we need instructors to replace the ranks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have heard this line for almost two years now and haven't heard of a significant decrease in the wait time. Sooner or later it should come true, but should it take two years?

[gtpilot]

[ QUOTE ]
All I can say is if you're considering DCA, ask yourself this question: "Why is a school that is so big on being 'customer oriented' having to defend itself so much from its customers?" Planediveguy I respect your comments, but this is not just my perception. "My perception" is running rampant through that school, and the reason is DCA lies to their potential customers, who then come and find out that they don't get what they've paid for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mentioned this perception problem to Ron Lewis and was told that some individuals choose to have a good attitude and some don't. One person out of the ten in my class had a positive perception of the school - the rest of us had attitude problems.

[gtrmantb]

But that's just it. I came with a positive attitude. I thought this is going to be great, but slowly more and more things happen that turn you off of the school. Nobody comes to the school wanting to be unhappy. If anything they overlook things in order to make themselves believe they made the right choice. I know I did.

BTW, I un-enrolled today. I spoke with Ron Lewis and he was very professional, but didn't seem surprised. I told him exactly what I said in my original post, and he proceeded to show me how I was only 7% above my "quoted" cost. He did however forget to figure in all those orals on stage checks yet to come. Just in case you're wondering the instrument rating is quoted at over $14,000. I found that out today for the first time. $14,000 so I can spend most of my time in FTD's and PCATD's. Someone tell me what's wrong with that picture?

[DE727UPS]

Did you finish your IFR?

I'm sorry you spent so much and accomplished so little at DCA. As someone who at least dedicated yourself to a professional position as a teacher, I think you deserved much more. I have a ground trainer that is FAA approved for 20 hours towards the part 61 IFR and a Cessna 152 with a Garmin 430. I'd be willing to work with you to painlessly finish up your IFR at minimum cost to you. I'm willing to bend over backwards for someone who took the time to work with kids and become a teacher, that means a lot more to me that money.

Why anyone would go to DCA continues to amaze me. To profess success because guys are getting on at regionals is hardly something to speak highly of, as guys with DCA grad mins can get hired at regionals even if they came from a lowly part 61 background.

[BLUESKY]

good post. I think you hit everything right the head...i was there at DCA for little less than a year..(left a couple months back). finished up to Comm. I'm about your age(33)....having spent time as a engineer and four years in the military i would agree the're assignments need to be better spaced out...Its current way was just unrealistic especially at the private level..As for the instructors(not sure where to begin)..My last instructor was EXCEPTIONAL..However, that was not always the case...my take on the instuctors was as follows...A third of them should flat out not be teaching...Another third are okay but need more training...The last third were simply born with the abaility to teach...the bottom line is this: people go to school for years to learn how to teach other people...instructors there spend a few months learning how to be instructors, and it shows with a lot of them(I know it's pretty much the same everywhere else but that brings another entirely different case that i'm tired of talking about)..

DCA has a good structure in place but there organizing of task need to be better...they are not affording students the latitude to finish the work-..I found that learning the material wasn't difficult it was the rediculous amount of time they afforded you(and i mean ridiculous)...they are a business, and want to make a good pilot out of you, but on the surface the're need or want for money is a much stronger driving force.. As for the cost, we were better off multiplying the figure they gave us by two to be on the safe side..As for some of the instructors behavior i always reminded them who was boss considering what i was paying..I would say of the ones that thought they were going to give me attitude they changed..it was great that they did but it was the idea that I had to confront them....

This school has a LOT of potential but it needs to keep a closer watch on some of there instructors...to many indiviuals are acting on there own, and a lot of students are not speaking up..I have to admitt Pat Murphy, and Ron Lewis did a great job handling the customers...

Daily schedule changes was another reminder of how money is the FAR dominant element....there are plenty of schools out there that can schedule you for up to a week..

for any one else reading and considering DCA ....in all, good structure bad organizing of task in a timely fashion. As for cost; there is not enough honesty, and don't be surprised if takes over a year to finish. It may even take as long as a year and a half...if you do attend don't ever let them treat you as a employee while you are a student.. would i recommend DCA? for now, i say a big NO..if you want to attend a big academy check out flight safety(no i'm not a student there, and never attended)...as for gtrmantb-good luck finishing up..

[Z28_Pilot]

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and don't be surprised if takes over a year to finish. It may even take as long as a year and a half...

[/ QUOTE ]

It took me 10 months.........start to finish........

less than 2 years to be online as a regional F/O.....

just my .02

[Z28_Pilot]

[ QUOTE ]
less than 2 years to be online as a regional F/O.....



[/ QUOTE ]

sorry...my bad.....less than 3 years.....but I spent some extra time teaching ground school and workin with the multi group...

[DE727UPS]

Taking nothing away from you, but in all fairness, in three years a guy can go from zero time to a regional in a small part 61 flight school, too. I've seen it happen.

[Doug Taylor]

As well have I.

[Z28_Pilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Taking nothing away from you, but in all fairness, in three years a guy can go from zero time to a regional in a small part 61 flight school, too. I've seen it happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have an argument for that point because you're right. I have seen that first hand .....I was just submitting my experience for the board.

[Lostkpot]

I am also thinking of leaving DCA do i get all my loan money to goto another school or does my loan money get sent back to the bank?