Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03.

VampyreGTX · March 1st, 2005, 17:24

I remember when I was at DCA in early '03 (shortly before I left) I remember one of the instructors I flew and a friend of mine experienced a loss of the hydraulic fluid and had to land with the mains not locked. (N5177R). They pulled it off perfectly and everyone was fine, but I recently looked back into it and found the 'probable cause' report by the NTSB.

The report references Sabotage as one of the 'causes.' Does anyone here that attends DCA know anything more about this? I've inquired with a friend of mine that's still an instructor (and was enrolled with me when this happened) and he didn't know about the findings in this incident. (The parts in questions were turned over to the FBI.)

Here's the reports:

Synopsis

Factual PDF File

Probable Cause Brief

chrisdahut1 · March 1st, 2005, 18:36

I remember 2003 as the year of the gear up. I guess this one just got lost amongst all the other notable gear ups.

Joepilot · March 1st, 2005, 19:52

I remember that. I watched that on the news. I think they had just started phasing out the RG's. From what I hear from friends working at the school all the Arrows are starting to have landing gear problems. I heard 4 or 5 problems in one week is not uncommon. Luckily no gear ups.

gtpilot · March 1st, 2005, 20:16

The poor instructor involved said his interviews were delayed by more than a year because no one would touch him while the NTSB investigated the accident. He's suspected for a while that this was the case.

Rumor was that a disgruntled instructor had emotional issued and killed himself a couple of months after this...same disgruntled instructor who was suspected of doing negative gees in one of the Seminoles and bending the wing. But, you know how rumors are...never did hear any names.

Pirep · March 2nd, 2005, 18:41

[ QUOTE ]
The poor instructor involved said his interviews were delayed by more than a year because no one would touch him while the NTSB investigated the accident. He's suspected for a while that this was the case.

Rumor was that a disgruntled instructor had emotional issued and killed himself a couple of months after this...same disgruntled instructor who was suspected of doing negative gees in one of the Seminoles and bending the wing. But, you know how rumors are...never did hear any names.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you might be talking about a disgruntled student who had a few issues (just ask the old commercial group guys about him). I believe he went to finish his ratings at Avion, but I could be wrong, it's been awhile. As for the Seminole story... that's another issue.

JAM · March 2nd, 2005, 21:15

I watched Matt put that RG down with skill while I was standing on the ramp. He did end up getting screwed by that incident, but I believe he's now at Skywest; good for him. He and I started at the academy about the same time. He is a great guy and didn't deserve the treatment he got in many respects. BTW, if Matt is reading this, how's that "mini-pack" treating you man?

The suicide I am also familiar with. I knew Ralph only briefly. He was a 'difficult' guy to like sometimes, but I was still quite saddened to hear of his death. To be clear, this was after he had left DCA and went to Avion. I remember when CAP was called to go look for the 'lost' airplane. I know the guys who discovered the wreckage. Anyone who has seen an aircraft wreckage first-hand with fatalities knows what a gruesome scene it was. It is always tragic when we lose another one.

VampyreGTX · March 3rd, 2005, 09:30

Ralph is not a familiar name to me... I left in March of '03 after completing my commercial single.

I flew with Matt a few times for my commercial, when he filled in for my instructor. I'm glad to here he's at the airlines! Does anyone know if he frequents these boards? If so, give me an IM Matt, not sure if you remember me, this is Andrew, was Momper's student in commercial. (or anyone that remember me for that fact.)

The suicide, was that the one the happened around March or April? I remember a plane that departed Sanford from Avion and just nosed it in to the woods about 15 mintues out.

JAM · March 3rd, 2005, 16:11

Andrew, yeah I think you are thinking about the same incident. Ralph was better known as RJ.

Momper, I havent seen or heard of him since he left Comair's training program. What is he up to nowadays? I miss his humor.

VampyreGTX · March 3rd, 2005, 17:43

I haven't talked to Dave since I left Comair. He was a fun CFI to fly with.. and talk about fun with him in a 152.

I never knew that Avion incident was related to a former DCA instructor. The RJ still doesn't ring a bell.. oh well, probably didn't know who he was. Still, sad to hear something like that happening. The one incident I will enver forget is the crash that claimed 4 near daytona. 65906 I believe? I flew that plane 3 days prior on my long commercial X-try and lost the vacuum system heading into Ft. Myers at night. And then to have it crash taking 4 lives a few days later kinda shook my up.

I'll have to head down there and see if anyone's left that I remember! One friend of mine is still an instructor there, Dan F. Otherwise, I've not really talked with many of the rest since my departure.

Pirep · March 6th, 2005, 11:16

[ QUOTE ]

I never knew that Avion incident was related to a former DCA instructor.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was a student at DCA, not an instructor.

VampyreGTX · March 7th, 2005, 11:43

Ah! I misread the ealier post.. wow, I do recall a 'Ralph' when I was there. Can't recall too much else about him though.

Wannabe2 · March 8th, 2005, 16:21

Andrew, I had Momper for Commercial too. Drop me an e-mail and I can fill you in on what he's up to. I talk to him every couple of months or so....

Phil

AmericanPilot · April 7th, 2005, 05:14

Matt was a cool guy, I remember when he came into my private ground school and shut the power point off and said, ###### this thing, and actually taught us something. He did get hired, I talked to him right before I left after CFI-I, he got hired with ASA

planediveguy · April 7th, 2005, 22:31

Matt worked his butt off... he is a great guy, and very funny too. He was so prepared for the interview that he probably did not miss a single question. I hope he is doing well at ASA.

Z28_Pilot · April 19th, 2005, 12:54

[ QUOTE ]
Matt worked his butt off... he is a great guy, and very funny too. He was so prepared for the interview that he probably did not miss a single question. I hope he is doing well at ASA.

[/ QUOTE ]
Before the well-wishers start sending fan mail.....he's at Skywest.......not ASA.

March 1st, 2005, 17:24	#1
VampyreGTX Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 152	Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. I remember when I was at DCA in early '03 (shortly before I left) I remember one of the instructors I flew and a friend of mine experienced a loss of the hydraulic fluid and had to land with the mains not locked. (N5177R). They pulled it off perfectly and everyone was fine, but I recently looked back into it and found the 'probable cause' report by the NTSB. The report references Sabotage as one of the 'causes.' Does anyone here that attends DCA know anything more about this? I've inquired with a friend of mine that's still an instructor (and was enrolled with me when this happened) and he didn't know about the findings in this incident. (The parts in questions were turned over to the FBI.) Here's the reports: Synopsis Factual PDF File Probable Cause Brief

March 1st, 2005, 18:36	#2
chrisdahut1 Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Louisville, KY & Florida Posts: 268	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. I remember 2003 as the year of the gear up. I guess this one just got lost amongst all the other notable gear ups.

March 1st, 2005, 19:52	#3
Joepilot Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 40	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. I remember that. I watched that on the news. I think they had just started phasing out the RG's. From what I hear from friends working at the school all the Arrows are starting to have landing gear problems. I heard 4 or 5 problems in one week is not uncommon. Luckily no gear ups.

March 1st, 2005, 20:16	#4
gtpilot Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: GA Posts: 476	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. The poor instructor involved said his interviews were delayed by more than a year because no one would touch him while the NTSB investigated the accident. He's suspected for a while that this was the case. Rumor was that a disgruntled instructor had emotional issued and killed himself a couple of months after this...same disgruntled instructor who was suspected of doing negative gees in one of the Seminoles and bending the wing. But, you know how rumors are...never did hear any names.

March 2nd, 2005, 18:41	#5
Pirep Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 72	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. [ QUOTE ] The poor instructor involved said his interviews were delayed by more than a year because no one would touch him while the NTSB investigated the accident. He's suspected for a while that this was the case. Rumor was that a disgruntled instructor had emotional issued and killed himself a couple of months after this...same disgruntled instructor who was suspected of doing negative gees in one of the Seminoles and bending the wing. But, you know how rumors are...never did hear any names. [/ QUOTE ] I believe you might be talking about a disgruntled student who had a few issues (just ask the old commercial group guys about him). I believe he went to finish his ratings at Avion, but I could be wrong, it's been awhile. As for the Seminole story... that's another issue.

March 2nd, 2005, 21:15	#6
JAM Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 246	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. I watched Matt put that RG down with skill while I was standing on the ramp. He did end up getting screwed by that incident, but I believe he's now at Skywest; good for him. He and I started at the academy about the same time. He is a great guy and didn't deserve the treatment he got in many respects. BTW, if Matt is reading this, how's that "mini-pack" treating you man? The suicide I am also familiar with. I knew Ralph only briefly. He was a 'difficult' guy to like sometimes, but I was still quite saddened to hear of his death. To be clear, this was after he had left DCA and went to Avion. I remember when CAP was called to go look for the 'lost' airplane. I know the guys who discovered the wreckage. Anyone who has seen an aircraft wreckage first-hand with fatalities knows what a gruesome scene it was. It is always tragic when we lose another one.

March 3rd, 2005, 09:30	#7
VampyreGTX Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 152	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. Ralph is not a familiar name to me... I left in March of '03 after completing my commercial single. I flew with Matt a few times for my commercial, when he filled in for my instructor. I'm glad to here he's at the airlines! Does anyone know if he frequents these boards? If so, give me an IM Matt, not sure if you remember me, this is Andrew, was Momper's student in commercial. (or anyone that remember me for that fact.) The suicide, was that the one the happened around March or April? I remember a plane that departed Sanford from Avion and just nosed it in to the woods about 15 mintues out.

March 3rd, 2005, 16:11	#8
JAM Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 246	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. Andrew, yeah I think you are thinking about the same incident. Ralph was better known as RJ. Momper, I havent seen or heard of him since he left Comair's training program. What is he up to nowadays? I miss his humor.

March 3rd, 2005, 17:43	#9
VampyreGTX Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 152	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. I haven't talked to Dave since I left Comair. He was a fun CFI to fly with.. and talk about fun with him in a 152. I never knew that Avion incident was related to a former DCA instructor. The RJ still doesn't ring a bell.. oh well, probably didn't know who he was. Still, sad to hear something like that happening. The one incident I will enver forget is the crash that claimed 4 near daytona. 65906 I believe? I flew that plane 3 days prior on my long commercial X-try and lost the vacuum system heading into Ft. Myers at night. And then to have it crash taking 4 lives a few days later kinda shook my up. I'll have to head down there and see if anyone's left that I remember! One friend of mine is still an instructor there, Dan F. Otherwise, I've not really talked with many of the rest since my departure.

March 6th, 2005, 11:16	#10
Pirep Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 72	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. [ QUOTE ] I never knew that Avion incident was related to a former DCA instructor. [/ QUOTE ] He was a student at DCA, not an instructor.

March 7th, 2005, 11:43	#11
VampyreGTX Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 152	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. Ah! I misread the ealier post.. wow, I do recall a 'Ralph' when I was there. Can't recall too much else about him though.

March 8th, 2005, 16:21	#12
Wannabe2 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 224	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. Andrew, I had Momper for Commercial too. Drop me an e-mail and I can fill you in on what he's up to. I talk to him every couple of months or so.... Phil

April 7th, 2005, 05:14	#13
AmericanPilot Newbie Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. Matt was a cool guy, I remember when he came into my private ground school and shut the power point off and said, ###### this thing, and actually taught us something. He did get hired, I talked to him right before I left after CFI-I, he got hired with ASA

April 7th, 2005, 22:31	#14
planediveguy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 319	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. Matt worked his butt off... he is a great guy, and very funny too. He was so prepared for the interview that he probably did not miss a single question. I hope he is doing well at ASA.

April 19th, 2005, 12:54	#15
Z28_Pilot Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 30	Re: Langing Gear Failure in 172RG back in 03. [ QUOTE ] Matt worked his butt off... he is a great guy, and very funny too. He was so prepared for the interview that he probably did not miss a single question. I hope he is doing well at ASA. [/ QUOTE ] Before the well-wishers start sending fan mail.....he's at Skywest.......not ASA.

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