DCA Advertising

[gtpilot]

Ok, I got tired of watching this one in the NDB thread. So, here's a two question poll.

My answers: I have done all of my training with DCA and think you won't find a better education elsewhere.

However, every time I see an ad for DCA, I want to retch because of the blatant lies.

[Wannabe2]

so i was gonna vote, but, unlike the 14 people that voted, i can't seem to figure out how to cast my vote..... is there a link to click or something?

[DE727UPS]

Thanks for the poll. I'll pass.

I appreciate your honesty ref DCA's marketing.

I think a better education can be had from experience in actual IMC, ice, grass strips, and beaches. All of which my most recent part 61, airline pilot wannabe, mentoree, has experienced...and he got his first 135 job at 500 hours total. He's low on debt, too.

I'm sure DCA provides fine training in some areas but until they change their ways of marketing airline jobs to novice pilot wannabe's...I'll continue to slam the program every chance I get.

[planediveguy]

Just to get you a little more pissed off:

DCA has deliver that promise for over 100 instructors this year, Yes that is right... over 100 of our instructors are off to a 121 Regional Airline flying jets...

That happened regardless ot hurricanes and internet B.S.

So go ahead and keep slamming the program... afterall it seems to be helping us! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[planediveguy]

And one more thing:

It is about time for you to get over the ads isn't it? Do yo really think that people enroll at DCA after reading the ads? If you are you are actually giving a lot of cradit to the marketing department and whoever wrote the ad.

People do some research before commiting to the school. We have over 60 people enrolling in September and I bet it was not "that ad" alone that brought them here. That ad is just an eye catcher,desigend to do just that: get your attention!

So far it has been pretty effective [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[stuckingfk]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to get you a little more pissed off:

DCA has deliver that promise for over 100 instructors this year, Yes that is right... over 100 of our instructors are off to a 121 Regional Airline flying jets...

That happened regardless ot hurricanes and internet B.S.

So go ahead and keep slamming the program... afterall it seems to be helping us! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, respect DE727UPS, he is a good guy around here.

We (UND) probably had around 150 leave, and that was around 10 months. I know DCA can't beat that, and WE DON'T have to advertise with such bull#####.

Another thing, UND doesn't make its instructors sign training contracts, and we get paid more than a poverty wage of $8 an hour. Actually, a lot of our instructors take a pay cut when leaving for a regional.

And last, our program is around 10-20 grand cheaper.

[DE727UPS]

"So go ahead and keep slamming the program..."

Don't worry...I will as long as I keep seeing those ads.

"It is about time for you to get over the ads isn't it?"

I don't think so....just so you know you're not alone, I won't give up on Gulfstream or TAB bashing, either.

I don't see how my view of DCA could be helping your program. One could assume a few people that read the DCA ads come to jetcareers and hear the other side of the story here. One would assume that a 15 year UPS 757/767 pilot would have some credibility with those seeking the career.

[rausda27]

Do you have any proof of an attrition rate of 100 hundred instructors a year and you had 60 NEW enrollments in September, or is that marketing hearsay? Those numbers seem somewhat inflated even for a large flight school..

[gtpilot]

Fabio -

I hate to say it, but you're beginning to sound like Vern Antrim. He very nearly convinced me not to come to DCA because of his slimy tactics and the lies he insisted were true. DCA could get so much furter by simply advertising 'High quality training by high quality instructors.' Why throw out percentages that simply don't reflect reality?

Can anyone at DCA provide real numbers? As near as I can tell, we're putting ~12 instructors per month into airline positions. At the same time we're hiring ~12 instructors per month. The lowest monthly enrollment I have heard of was 20 in December. Otherwise, we're talking about an average class of 35-40 per enrollment with 13 enrollments per year. So, it seems that 400 students come in per year and only 140 get hired per year.

In other words, the real truth is that less than 1/3 of DCA's students are actually getting hired by airlines.

Regards!
Marc

[SJFLYER]

In DCA's wildest dreams they place 12 instructors a month with a 121 Airline. They might release 12 instructors per month and get them an interview but they definitely do not place 12 instructors a month with a 121 Airline. I would say that on a good month they place 6 or 8.

[JDMcFly]

I think it works out that while instructors do go to 121s, very few students actually become instructors... But I really got no idea, eh.

[ananoman]

[ QUOTE ]
Do yo really think that people enroll at DCA after reading the ads?

[/ QUOTE ]

I obviously have no hard numbers, but I'll bet about 30% or more make their decision on advertising alone. I was always amazed how many students showed up at FSI without doing much research, or even visiting the campus. The ones who are too lazy to do much research are usually the ones who end up very disappointed that it is actually hard work to learn how to fly. They also have difficulty with the hard truth that they will not be in the business end of the super jumbo making the big bucks anytime soon either.

Overall I do not doubt that you get a good education at DCA, I just think that alot more people would respect the place if they did not run those moronic ads. But evidently they are working, so it is hard to fault the marketing dept.

It is kind of like reading a good action novel, then half way through the book the hero lands his plane on Rwy 44 (or maybe it was a movie!) after that, you can't take it seriously anymore and lose interest.

[gtpilot]

[ QUOTE ]
In DCA's wildest dreams they place 12 instructors a month with a 121 Airline. They might release 12 instructors per month and get them an interview but they definitely do not place 12 instructors a month with a 121 Airline. I would say that on a good month they place 6 or 8.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not one to BS. I'm not dreaming either - I know the people and I'm seeing them interview, get training dates and go. Perhaps your info is outdated?

[planediveguy]

I don't think that DE 727 UPS is a"bad guy". I just disagree with his point of view and make it clear here.

There is a lot of wrong information floating around about DCA... some negative and some positive.

Someone that has a strong opininon against the school, based on posts or comments from those that did not succeed, is missing part of the equation.

[planediveguy]

Nope the numbers are not inflated. We had two enrollments in the month of September. 42 people enrolled in the first one and over 20 on the second.

I can get the correct numbers this week once we start operations again.

As far as instructors... I was thinking of tracking their names and placememt... but it might create liability/security issues. I will see what I can do.

[planediveguy]

You are right. We don't place 12 instructors per month with an 121 carrier... the number can be higher or lower depending on who is hiring and who has been released.

We are seeing our senior instructors go at a steady rate though and we are starting to become bottom heavy.. which means more students per instructors... which means instructors get their time faster and we will increase the new hires...

DCA doesn't work like a cookie factory ( no pun intended... even though it fits [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) so things happen on a supply and demand basis.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[planediveguy]

DCA's salary for instructors is $ 10.00 per hour, not that it is any better, but I just wanted to help you get your facts straight.

We only have around 150 instructors in our roster ( again I can verify the actula number) So 100 guys placed in 10 months is not bad at all...

Just for curiosity how many students does UND have and how many instructors? Do you have to complete your 4 year degree before getting hired as an instructor? And if that is the case how long does it take on average for them to get hired at a part 121 carrier?

Please don't ffeel that i am trying to discredit you with the above questions... I am actually interested. I have friends at ERAU and FSI right now and they keep me posted on their experience. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[planediveguy]

Here is someone with a level head!

If the AD's didn't work they would have pulled them out long ago.

Let me tell you about a experience I had in 1999 wile shooting the "Live from a Shark Cage" Discovery Channel Special that was aired on Shark Week that year.

Al Giddings brought a shark cage that had huge camera openings and I told him that our sharks would be able to swim right through them... his answer:

"Fabio, this show will be watched by 40 million people.. of those about 0.5% are divers, of those about 3 % know anything about shark cages... I am not catering to them!."

The same applies to the ridiculous RWY 44... And that was a movie, I just don't remember which. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img]

[flyboy04]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone that has a strong opininon against the school, based on posts or comments from those that did not succeed, is missing part of the equation.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think your wrong there, there are those who went to DCA, got an airline job and down it still. Dont be suprised you might be one of them one day. People get to the airlines, and realize that people actually get hired from other places than DCA. DCA isnt a bad school, its a good place to do training, but everyone there has this golden image in their head of what it is, and alot of them are wrong. You can go almost anywhere in the US, put forth the money, effort and time, and come out just as good as a DCA grad, btw i am one. Theres flight instructors finding jet jobs from just about every flight school there is. DCA does place its instructors with jobs, but everyone that goes doesnt get it, and they certainly dont in the time frame they say. Not saying i wouldnt go back if i had it all to do over again, but if i were there, id be carefull of putting it up to high, because you just might be one of those that "didnt succeed" and hey, if they dont need instructors or the airlines dont need pilots, they ARE NOT going hire, period. So dont look down on the people that went to DCA and didnt come out with a job, and most certainly dont look down on people that question DCA about its marketing efforts, most arent talking down about the school just to do it, but because they dont wanna see people waste money, or have an image in their head of something that dont exist.

[DE727UPS]

"DCA's salary for instructors is $ 10.00 per hour"

Why don't they put that in the ads?

[stuckingfk]

[ QUOTE ]
DCA's salary for instructors is $ 10.00 per hour, not that it is any better, but I just wanted to help you get your facts straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for clarifying, and 10 is heck of a lot better than minimum wage (which is actually criminal).

[ QUOTE ]
Just for curiosity how many students does UND have and how many instructors? Do you have to complete your 4 year degree before getting hired as an instructor? And if that is the case how long does it take on average for them to get hired at a part 121 carrier?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was in the last new hire class of around 135 instructors. That brings UND's total to 230 give or take a few. In that class, I was one of the older ones (22). There were a lot of instructors born in 83 and a couple in 84.

You do not have to be graduated to work here, but there is incentive because of the pay raise once you have a degree ($9.36 an hour to $15.40 with CFII).

It all depends on the instructor when he wants to leave. American Eagle has minimums for us now 500 tt and 100 multi. Which means a student could instruct for one year while going to school, graduate and then head out the door to Eagle if he/she got hired.

Horizons minimums for us are at 750 tt and 50 multi.

Piedmont's are set at 500 and 50 multi.

A few of my ex instructors are at Pinnacle now, which I wouldn't mind going to if their new contract gets up to 2005 standards.

A new hire I know instructed for 2 weeks before he got hired at ExpressJet. He had the hours from a weather mod internship.

It all depends.........Any more ?'s, just ask.

And sorry for my tone in my earlier post, thanks for clarifying some things.

[gtpilot]

[ QUOTE ]

It all depends on the instructor when he wants to leave. American Eagle has minimums for us now 500 tt and 100 multi. Which means a student could instruct for one year while going to school, graduate and then head out the door to Eagle if he/she got hired.

Horizons minimums for us are at 750 tt and 50 multi.

Piedmont's are set at 500 and 50 multi.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have had an instructor who was disallowed from interviewing with Skyways because he wasn't to the academy's minimums yet. By disallowed, I mean that he was told that if he interviewed with Skyways and did not get the job, he could not come back to DCA. Also, as I understand it, Chataqua would take more instructors at lower hours if DCA allowed it.

[Doug Taylor]

Why did the instructor notify DCA that he was interviewing with Skyway?

[gtpilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did the instructor notify DCA that he was interviewing with Skyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

Skyway's chief pilot came down for interviews and 'eligible' instructors were invited to interview. Several who met Skyway's minimums (and then some) asked to interview but were told they did not meet the minimums for dual given at DCA. I think we're required to have 800 dual given before DCA will release us for our interview. As far as I know, none of Delta's affiliates will hire from DCA if the 800 dual given is not met.

Gotta love office politics. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

[DE727UPS]

It's more than office politics. What it is...is....DCA wants to keep milking CFI's at $10/hr until they have put in their "time" at the 800 hour mark. So...it's "no you can't leave" until you pay your dues to them for the 800 hours (not to mention that YOU paid big bucks to get your CFI, be standardized, and all that)

Man...the more I learn about this place the more I laugh and shake my head....