The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy

ClipperPilot · July 23rd, 2004, 17:55

Just wondering, when it comes time for you interview, do you get a choice on which airline you want to interview with, do you get more than one interview? Do you get a call back if you dont get the position?
Example, if i interview with Comair, and i dont get the flight officer position, does DCA get me another interview with another carrier? Finally, last question is when it comes time for the interview, and i cant get hired on with a regional, do i lose my CFI position at DCA?

Thanks for your responses.

zsolez · July 23rd, 2004, 18:48

You can select out of 4 or 5 I think. I have only seen people go to Comair or Chautauqua and have heard about some going to ASA (? not sure). If you don't get hired after the interveiw you get a 2nd shot at your 2nd choice, again I am not sure if that is guaranteed or not, but it is happening). In general, they will try to find a place for you within the list but most get picked up by either Comair or Chq... of course some bomb both.

H46Bubba · July 24th, 2004, 01:25

Once you have given 800 Hrs of dual given, you are released by the academy to move on to the next step, which is filling out your airline preference sheet(in order 1-5), your application, and so on. The school submits the package to your number one airline of choice. You are then given a date to start the Bridge Program. Most have interviewed and been hired or are awaiting confirmation of a class date by the time they enter the Bridge Program. If by some chance you bust the first interview, DCA will try to get you a second interview with your second pick. As far as who is hiring. Comair and Chautauqua hire the most, since that seems where everyone wants to go. Skyways Chief pilot came down and personally conducted and interview session at DCA and hired 8 instructors. I know several have been hired by SkyWest and several have gotten hired by ASA.

montanapilot · July 24th, 2004, 03:32

clipperpilot, your actually considering this place [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] even after all the deceitful bullsh^t they peddle in Flying and Flight Training mags.

zsolez · July 24th, 2004, 12:38

[ QUOTE ]
clipperpilot, your actually considering this place [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] even after all the deceitful bullsh^t they peddle in Flying and Flight Training mags.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you would base you car shopping on marketing... you would never buy a car... but if you want you can get a BMW 325i for 239 a month here at Broward County in South FL... good luck!

BTW just what is so wrong with the commercials? They are placing aca grads to airlines. They are indeed owned by Comair/Delta. They are serving the DCI family with pilots. So what is your problem? Reading too much flying magazin I guess.

ClipperPilot · July 24th, 2004, 12:57

[ QUOTE ]
clipperpilot, your actually considering this place [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] even after all the deceitful bullsh^t they peddle in Flying and Flight Training mags.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not actually wether I believe their advertising per say, rather than just curious as to how the procedure truly works. On another note, I think that wherever I go for flight training, I have to make the best of it for myself, (one thing i find people commonly stress here). If I go to DCA, it's because I have filtered through the advertising, and I know what to expect, and what not to have high expectations for.

H46Bubba · July 24th, 2004, 15:39

Exactly! If you can see past all the marketing hype, do your homework and shop around you'll find what your looking for. If you make it past all the B.S. marketing stuff, DCA is a great school and has top notch training. As long as you stick with it, graduate, become and instructor, do your time, and nail that interview, your're golden. If you're blinded by the adds, and don't shop around, your experience might not be what you thought it would be, and you'll leave disappointed. If those certain individuals out there are turned off by the hype and don't check it out for themselves, will of course have negative attitudes. As I always state, do your homework and shop around. It's a big leap to take. I shopped around and decided that DCA is where I wanted to go. The longer I'm here, the more I know I made the right choice.

montanapilot · July 24th, 2004, 22:25

if you wanna drop 60G's flying beat to hell 152's and 172's in an "airline" environment have at it!

DE727UPS · July 25th, 2004, 01:52

"They are serving the DCI family with pilots"

What they say is "we are the only school authorized to serve the entire Delta Connection system". What does that mean, exactly? What they want you to think is that you can't get hired at a Delta Connection carrier unless you go to DCA. However, that's far from the truth.

H46Bubba · July 25th, 2004, 11:21

Montanapilot, They may be old and well used, but they are well maintained and maintenance is out there and fixes any problem in minutes. Not only am I a student I also work in the maintenace department. We all bust our a$$ to make sure these aircraft are in tip top shape and make their event and if not, the next event. Just because you have it easy with the new cessnas, with all the new fandangle gadgetry, doesn't mean you still can't decent training. Let me put it this way. It's like trying to learn how to fly in a 737-200 vs a 737NG. Yeah I wish sometimes I had a new 172 to train in, but I just go to the FBO next door and rent an SP for fun.

DE727UPS, I agree with you. I don't like the marketing anymore than you do. They could still sell the school with out all the crap.

DE727UPS · July 25th, 2004, 11:45

H46, you're the voice of reason around here. Good luck to you.

H46Bubba · July 25th, 2004, 12:53

Thanks. I condsider DCA like a movie. Just because I like the movie, doesn't mean that someone else will like it also. It's not for everyone. Like I said before, if you can get past all the marketing B.S, it's a great school that provides some pretty good training. What I don't like is people on this webite that down someone for making up their own decision to go to a particular school. If they've done their homework and shopped aropund and that's the place they've decided to go, more power to them.(Except TAB or Gulfstream [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]). I just don't want to see this thread go the way of the PAn Am forum. It's like Jerry Springer over there.

montanapilot · July 25th, 2004, 19:43

[ QUOTE ]
Just because you have it easy with the new cessnas, with all the new fandangle gadgetry, doesn't mean you still can't decent training.

[/ QUOTE ]

i totally agree. I have never flown a plane younger than myself or touched a GPS system. I just think it is redicoulous (sp?) to drop that kinda money on training in a 152/172 when that same can be had for half the price at an FBO.

H46Bubba · July 25th, 2004, 23:23

Flex and Part 61 students pay $75 for a 172. Regular program students pay $89. The only price issue I have is for the PCATD. For a 0.6 on my last PCATD, I paid around $89. I was like sheesh i could have gotten a 172 and done the same thing for an hour, for $14 bucks cheaper. Luckily the VA will reimburse some of that.

zsolez · July 30th, 2004, 22:44

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just because you have it easy with the new cessnas, with all the new fandangle gadgetry, doesn't mean you still can't decent training.

[/ QUOTE ]

i totally agree. I have never flown a plane younger than myself or touched a GPS system. I just think it is redicoulous (sp?) to drop that kinda money on training in a 152/172 when that same can be had for half the price at an FBO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for my cockiness, but since I have seen you being always very forthcoming to jump into DCA threads I just can’t help it.

You see the thing is, that they/we are dropping the $$ on other reasons. Those are mostly mentioned under "the pros of attending DCA" list. "Old planes" usually show up under "the cons of attending DCA" list. People tend to drop dough on the positive, if there is left any once they deducted the cons from the pros. Some people though screw the math very badly.

On the other hand, since you have mentioned it, I would love to fly a new 172 in my lifetime. Once I actually saw a brand new DCA PA-44-180 parking at our ramp. My instant reaction was that I screwed my taxi. But once we got out they told us not to get close or we may be shot at, so I knew I was at home. After I have parked the old PA-44 I flew that day, I took the long way around the school to make sure no charges will appear on my statement for looking at it…

The truth is… I was in the cabin within 5 seconds. I would have loved to take it for a round. Sooo yes in Sanford they do have some new twins but they also pay more for them. I was very happy to fly the old ones for my multi and get away with paying less. However after I am done I will beat the drum for new singles/twins/ and an RJ just for grads to fly to the islands with Hooters Air flight attendants, and John Travolta at the left seat. IMO anything less is sub standards and won’t land students in a right seat at the airlines.

On a serious note though, it would be cool to fly new planes, but simply that is not what DCA sells. DCA sells quality flight training in safe airplanes with a possible route to the regionals. Cessna and Piper sells new planes. I have been envy seeing ERAU, FSI and Panam students here and there during my cross-country rides in shiny planes but those guys have been paying for them too and they will beat the _crap out of those planes in no time just like we do. It is no wonder why DCA is not willing to buy them.

NC_BE300 · July 30th, 2004, 23:30

[ QUOTE ]
I have been envy seeing ERAU, FSI and Panam students here and there during my cross-country rides in shiny planes but those guys have been paying for them too and they will beat the _crap out of those planes in no time just like we do. It is no wonder why DCA is not willing to buy them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I go to ERAU DAB now, even though the airplanes are "new" (actually a few years old in many cases) they are very worn. I have heard many stories from my friends of worn out equipment, and tons of scheduling problems. For example, the arrow fleet is only 5-8 strong. The only nice thing about that is that 90% of them are new. The seminole fleet itself is still 75% old out of the 15 or so seminoles on the ramp. There are only 3-4 new seminoles on the ramp. Only 2 of which are autopilot equipped (with is a mandatory part of training). We even have a Prescott airplane at DAB to do spin training in for the time being.

RiddlePilot · July 31st, 2004, 15:14

[ QUOTE ]
Only 2 of which are autopilot equipped (with is a mandatory part of training).

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? We don't have any here. The first time I got into a plane with a working autopilot, I ignored it. I don't trust those newfangled things. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Anyways...who cares if you're flying a new or old 172? A 172 is a 172 is a 172. One may look spiffier than the other, but there's no other real differences that couldn't be easily adapted to by a competent pilot.

Mr_Jimmy_Fly · July 31st, 2004, 19:42

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly! If you can see past all the marketing hype, do your homework and shop around you'll find what your looking for. If you make it past all the B.S. marketing stuff, DCA is a great school and has top notch training.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh really! I believe you can tell a tree by it's fruit. I have in fact attended Comair Academy and I found the management just as decieving as their advertising (maybe moreso).

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As long as you stick with it, graduate, become and instructor, do your time, and nail that interview, your're golden.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a half truth, at best, according to the numbers. If the total enrollment is 300 (arbitrary figure) and 30 get a interview and a job then that would indicate a 10% success. What happened to the other 270? Comair/DCA can shoot you out of the saddle at any point along the way and therein lies the problem.
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zsolez · August 1st, 2004, 11:42

[ QUOTE ]
This is a half truth, at best, according to the numbers. If the total enrollment is 300 (arbitrary figure) and 30 get a interview and a job then that would indicate a 10% success. What happened to the other 270? Comair/DCA can shoot you out of the saddle at any point along the way and therein lies the problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

It feels to me that you are looking for guarantees. Of course you can show me a flight school where say 50% of the total enrollment graduates. Or if not 50% than what is the % that one would consider acceptable?

For comparison, a typical university in the USA has a 60% average graduation rate. This rate is not to be confused with the “success rate” which means the amount of people get a job at the end. The number is further decreased by those who don’t want to work in the field, but simply want to have a degree. Taking those into account, I would say it is fair to guesstimate the success rate down to 50%. Probably I was still a bit optimistic. Of course such a success rate is possible because of well standardized prescreening methods like GMAT which will make it or break it for a BBA holder to get into a good MBA program. So what would be the number without prescreening? I have no clue but definitely lower.

So lets take a look at aviation, where due to the nature of the business, at most places there is no prescreening. Some schools like FSI or MESA prescreen but I have yet to hear about an FBO who does. DCA doesn’t either. It would also be very hard to do so as ones ability to learn to fly is hard to measure by regular standards. If one can’t handle it, it only becomes apparent after one has flown with several instructors and is well over the average hours. Unfortunatelly you have to to try to find out. There are no indicators that would ensure failure or success. Just because one was poor in high school does not meant he will be a bad pilot, and vice versa.

So without prescreening just about everyone who wakes up one day with the dream of becoming a pilot can start flight training somewhere. And they do too as attrition in flight training is muchos higher than in a normal university.

Just for the sake of the numbers:

It takes you an average of 250-350 total training hours to finish from zero to MEI at most places. The low would be part 141 and the high would be part 61 due to the higher FAA requirements. Now take into account that an average CFI needs about 1200-1500 dual given to get into a position where he will become interesting for a regional or a part 135 operator.

Where does that leave us? To me this tells that approximately every CFI needs to finish a minimum of 4 to 5 students from zero to MEI. Granted you also do other things like flight reviews, proficiency checks, maintenance flights but those don't account for the majority of the hours for a typical CFI even if he is working at an FBO. You also give instruction for people who do not want to instruct for time building or simply don’t want to go to the airlines. So let say (and this would depend on the specific school) you need about 1000TT dual given from those who train to be a CFI and the rest comes from other flights. You still need to finish 3-4 guys from zero all the way up. That right there is 66%-75% attrition. So that is 25%-33% graduation rate. I really have no clue how to figure out the average success rate for an average CFI in getting a job but it has to decrease the graduation rate well below 25% (especially nowadays) IMO. May be 15% or 20%? I have no clue but whatever it is, it won’t be 50% that is for sure.

If there would not be any significant attrition than we would see the CFI population double/triple in every 1.5-2 years, or whatever is the average to finish all the training.

BTW I forgot include all those CFIs who will leave once they start time building because of financial hardship. DCA is no exception. CFIs leave for financial reasons, some leave because they don’t get the time as fast as they hoped, some simply pick up a job while they are waiting for their number to come up and they stick to it… etc. When the hiring went on several guys were impatient to wait out their dual given requirement that makes one eligible for the interview. And of course there are those who figure out that instructing was really not for them. All this further decreases the success rate.

On top of all this, when you read the posts here or elsewhere, pretty much everyone says who attended, that the program is very intense and competitive. 10% may sound too low but it is just a little intro for what is ahead if one has a major airline in front of him/her.

I think many who once figured “I want to be an airline pilot!” need to do a reality check before diving into training and opening the checkbook. It is no cakewalk regardless if you go to an FBO, or to a known academy. Many will never make it.

rausda27 · August 1st, 2004, 13:22

[ QUOTE ]
Some schools like FSI or MESA prescreen but I have yet to hear about an FBO who does. DCA doesn’t either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, get your facts straight. The only "prescreening" that I had at FSA was showing picutre ID and a valid medical, then a routine drug test. They do administer apptitude testing, but this is late in the syllabus and is to help prepare students for the cognitive and psychological tesitng they may see someday at an airline..

Your posts are like the national enquirer..mostly BS

Doug Taylor · August 1st, 2004, 13:27

[ QUOTE ]
10% may sound too low but it is just a little intro for what is ahead if one has a major airline in front of him/her.

[/ QUOTE ]

A 90% washout between those starting training and those reaching their career goals?

(And again, this isn't targeted at CAA, just a generic question aimed at understanding a statistic)

planediveguy · August 2nd, 2004, 23:08

Hi Doug,

Thanks for getting my login fixed...

10% is not a real number. Just by looking at the last Standz classes I would say that 70% to 80% of the sutdents that finished phase I of the program got hired. And before someonoe jumps out and drool over the percentage of students that finsih...

It is a very demanding program, people describe the PPC as "drinking from a firehose", and on the Instrument Rating Course we open the valve a couple of turns!

I have seen students go thorugh the program with ease, and those are the ones that are always ready for their flights, do their homework, etc.

But since graduating from Standz in December I became appalled by the number of people that don't get it and eventually they realize that they don't want to put the effort and then they quit.

I used to tell this story to my students on ground school:

Imagine that you are starting your own business and that you will be hiring personnel next week. You tell your candidates that they will have to take a test during their interview... You then proceed to give them this red book that has all the questions that could be on the test with the correct answers!... the following week the results of the test show that some candidates had a score of 100%, some 90%, some 80% and so on... who would you hire first?

cmsuav8r · August 4th, 2004, 10:43

The most qualified, most experienced candidate. Test scores aren't everything. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img]

chrisdahut1 · August 4th, 2004, 17:20

Well, a reality of life is that how you look on paper often weighs in very heavily on whether or not you get that job offer.
It's not always the best way to determine abaility and suitability for a job, but it's how things are.

cmsuav8r · August 4th, 2004, 20:08

Actually it seems that in this world it doesn't matter what is even on the paper, rather who walks the paper in for you.

July 23rd, 2004, 17:55	#1
ClipperPilot Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ft.lauderdale FL Posts: 104	The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy Just wondering, when it comes time for you interview, do you get a choice on which airline you want to interview with, do you get more than one interview? Do you get a call back if you dont get the position? Example, if i interview with Comair, and i dont get the flight officer position, does DCA get me another interview with another carrier? Finally, last question is when it comes time for the interview, and i cant get hired on with a regional, do i lose my CFI position at DCA? Thanks for your responses.

July 23rd, 2004, 18:48	#2
zsolez Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 79	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy You can select out of 4 or 5 I think. I have only seen people go to Comair or Chautauqua and have heard about some going to ASA (? not sure). If you don't get hired after the interveiw you get a 2nd shot at your 2nd choice, again I am not sure if that is guaranteed or not, but it is happening). In general, they will try to find a place for you within the list but most get picked up by either Comair or Chq... of course some bomb both.

July 24th, 2004, 01:25	#3
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,332	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy Once you have given 800 Hrs of dual given, you are released by the academy to move on to the next step, which is filling out your airline preference sheet(in order 1-5), your application, and so on. The school submits the package to your number one airline of choice. You are then given a date to start the Bridge Program. Most have interviewed and been hired or are awaiting confirmation of a class date by the time they enter the Bridge Program. If by some chance you bust the first interview, DCA will try to get you a second interview with your second pick. As far as who is hiring. Comair and Chautauqua hire the most, since that seems where everyone wants to go. Skyways Chief pilot came down and personally conducted and interview session at DCA and hired 8 instructors. I know several have been hired by SkyWest and several have gotten hired by ASA.

July 24th, 2004, 03:32	#4
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,641	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy clipperpilot, your actually considering this place [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] even after all the deceitful bullsh^t they peddle in Flying and Flight Training mags.

July 24th, 2004, 12:38	#5
zsolez Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 79	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy [ QUOTE ] clipperpilot, your actually considering this place [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] even after all the deceitful bullsh^t they peddle in Flying and Flight Training mags. [/ QUOTE ] if you would base you car shopping on marketing... you would never buy a car... but if you want you can get a BMW 325i for 239 a month here at Broward County in South FL... good luck! BTW just what is so wrong with the commercials? They are placing aca grads to airlines. They are indeed owned by Comair/Delta. They are serving the DCI family with pilots. So what is your problem? Reading too much flying magazin I guess.

July 24th, 2004, 12:57	#6
ClipperPilot Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ft.lauderdale FL Posts: 104	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy [ QUOTE ] clipperpilot, your actually considering this place [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] even after all the deceitful bullsh^t they peddle in Flying and Flight Training mags. [/ QUOTE ] It's not actually wether I believe their advertising per say, rather than just curious as to how the procedure truly works. On another note, I think that wherever I go for flight training, I have to make the best of it for myself, (one thing i find people commonly stress here). If I go to DCA, it's because I have filtered through the advertising, and I know what to expect, and what not to have high expectations for.

July 24th, 2004, 15:39	#7
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,332	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy Exactly! If you can see past all the marketing hype, do your homework and shop around you'll find what your looking for. If you make it past all the B.S. marketing stuff, DCA is a great school and has top notch training. As long as you stick with it, graduate, become and instructor, do your time, and nail that interview, your're golden. If you're blinded by the adds, and don't shop around, your experience might not be what you thought it would be, and you'll leave disappointed. If those certain individuals out there are turned off by the hype and don't check it out for themselves, will of course have negative attitudes. As I always state, do your homework and shop around. It's a big leap to take. I shopped around and decided that DCA is where I wanted to go. The longer I'm here, the more I know I made the right choice.

July 24th, 2004, 22:25	#8
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,641	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy if you wanna drop 60G's flying beat to hell 152's and 172's in an "airline" environment have at it!

July 25th, 2004, 01:52	#9
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy "They are serving the DCI family with pilots" What they say is "we are the only school authorized to serve the entire Delta Connection system". What does that mean, exactly? What they want you to think is that you can't get hired at a Delta Connection carrier unless you go to DCA. However, that's far from the truth.

July 25th, 2004, 11:21	#10
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,332	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy Montanapilot, They may be old and well used, but they are well maintained and maintenance is out there and fixes any problem in minutes. Not only am I a student I also work in the maintenace department. We all bust our a$$ to make sure these aircraft are in tip top shape and make their event and if not, the next event. Just because you have it easy with the new cessnas, with all the new fandangle gadgetry, doesn't mean you still can't decent training. Let me put it this way. It's like trying to learn how to fly in a 737-200 vs a 737NG. Yeah I wish sometimes I had a new 172 to train in, but I just go to the FBO next door and rent an SP for fun. DE727UPS, I agree with you. I don't like the marketing anymore than you do. They could still sell the school with out all the crap.

July 25th, 2004, 11:45	#11
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,546	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy H46, you're the voice of reason around here. Good luck to you.

July 25th, 2004, 12:53	#12
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,332	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy Thanks. I condsider DCA like a movie. Just because I like the movie, doesn't mean that someone else will like it also. It's not for everyone. Like I said before, if you can get past all the marketing B.S, it's a great school that provides some pretty good training. What I don't like is people on this webite that down someone for making up their own decision to go to a particular school. If they've done their homework and shopped aropund and that's the place they've decided to go, more power to them.(Except TAB or Gulfstream [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]). I just don't want to see this thread go the way of the PAn Am forum. It's like Jerry Springer over there.

July 25th, 2004, 19:43	#13
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,641	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy [ QUOTE ] Just because you have it easy with the new cessnas, with all the new fandangle gadgetry, doesn't mean you still can't decent training. [/ QUOTE ] i totally agree. I have never flown a plane younger than myself or touched a GPS system. I just think it is redicoulous (sp?) to drop that kinda money on training in a 152/172 when that same can be had for half the price at an FBO.

July 25th, 2004, 23:23	#14
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,332	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy Flex and Part 61 students pay $75 for a 172. Regular program students pay $89. The only price issue I have is for the PCATD. For a 0.6 on my last PCATD, I paid around $89. I was like sheesh i could have gotten a 172 and done the same thing for an hour, for $14 bucks cheaper. Luckily the VA will reimburse some of that.

July 30th, 2004, 22:44	#15
zsolez Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 79	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Just because you have it easy with the new cessnas, with all the new fandangle gadgetry, doesn't mean you still can't decent training. [/ QUOTE ] i totally agree. I have never flown a plane younger than myself or touched a GPS system. I just think it is redicoulous (sp?) to drop that kinda money on training in a 152/172 when that same can be had for half the price at an FBO. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry for my cockiness, but since I have seen you being always very forthcoming to jump into DCA threads I just can’t help it. You see the thing is, that they/we are dropping the $$ on other reasons. Those are mostly mentioned under "the pros of attending DCA" list. "Old planes" usually show up under "the cons of attending DCA" list. People tend to drop dough on the positive, if there is left any once they deducted the cons from the pros. Some people though screw the math very badly. On the other hand, since you have mentioned it, I would love to fly a new 172 in my lifetime. Once I actually saw a brand new DCA PA-44-180 parking at our ramp. My instant reaction was that I screwed my taxi. But once we got out they told us not to get close or we may be shot at, so I knew I was at home. After I have parked the old PA-44 I flew that day, I took the long way around the school to make sure no charges will appear on my statement for looking at it… The truth is… I was in the cabin within 5 seconds. I would have loved to take it for a round. Sooo yes in Sanford they do have some new twins but they also pay more for them. I was very happy to fly the old ones for my multi and get away with paying less. However after I am done I will beat the drum for new singles/twins/ and an RJ just for grads to fly to the islands with Hooters Air flight attendants, and John Travolta at the left seat. IMO anything less is sub standards and won’t land students in a right seat at the airlines. On a serious note though, it would be cool to fly new planes, but simply that is not what DCA sells. DCA sells quality flight training in safe airplanes with a possible route to the regionals. Cessna and Piper sells new planes. I have been envy seeing ERAU, FSI and Panam students here and there during my cross-country rides in shiny planes but those guys have been paying for them too and they will beat the _crap out of those planes in no time just like we do. It is no wonder why DCA is not willing to buy them.

July 30th, 2004, 23:30	#16
NC_BE300 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: JFK Posts: 427	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controversy [ QUOTE ] I have been envy seeing ERAU, FSI and Panam students here and there during my cross-country rides in shiny planes but those guys have been paying for them too and they will beat the _crap out of those planes in no time just like we do. It is no wonder why DCA is not willing to buy them. [/ QUOTE ] I go to ERAU DAB now, even though the airplanes are "new" (actually a few years old in many cases) they are very worn. I have heard many stories from my friends of worn out equipment, and tons of scheduling problems. For example, the arrow fleet is only 5-8 strong. The only nice thing about that is that 90% of them are new. The seminole fleet itself is still 75% old out of the 15 or so seminoles on the ramp. There are only 3-4 new seminoles on the ramp. Only 2 of which are autopilot equipped (with is a mandatory part of training). We even have a Prescott airplane at DAB to do spin training in for the time being.

July 31st, 2004, 15:14	#17
RiddlePilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 928	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controve [ QUOTE ] Only 2 of which are autopilot equipped (with is a mandatory part of training). [/ QUOTE ] Really? We don't have any here. The first time I got into a plane with a working autopilot, I ignored it. I don't trust those newfangled things. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Anyways...who cares if you're flying a new or old 172? A 172 is a 172 is a 172. One may look spiffier than the other, but there's no other real differences that couldn't be easily adapted to by a competent pilot.

July 31st, 2004, 19:42	#18
Mr_Jimmy_Fly Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 23	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controve [ QUOTE ] Exactly! If you can see past all the marketing hype, do your homework and shop around you'll find what your looking for. If you make it past all the B.S. marketing stuff, DCA is a great school and has top notch training. [/ QUOTE ] Oh really! I believe you can tell a tree by it's fruit. I have in fact attended Comair Academy and I found the management just as decieving as their advertising (maybe moreso). [ QUOTE ] As long as you stick with it, graduate, become and instructor, do your time, and nail that interview, your're golden. [/ QUOTE ] This is a half truth, at best, according to the numbers. If the total enrollment is 300 (arbitrary figure) and 30 get a interview and a job then that would indicate a 10% success. What happened to the other 270? Comair/DCA can shoot you out of the saddle at any point along the way and therein lies the problem. . . . .

August 1st, 2004, 11:42	#19
zsolez Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 79	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controve [ QUOTE ] This is a half truth, at best, according to the numbers. If the total enrollment is 300 (arbitrary figure) and 30 get a interview and a job then that would indicate a 10% success. What happened to the other 270? Comair/DCA can shoot you out of the saddle at any point along the way and therein lies the problem. [/ QUOTE ] It feels to me that you are looking for guarantees. Of course you can show me a flight school where say 50% of the total enrollment graduates. Or if not 50% than what is the % that one would consider acceptable? For comparison, a typical university in the USA has a 60% average graduation rate. This rate is not to be confused with the “success rate” which means the amount of people get a job at the end. The number is further decreased by those who don’t want to work in the field, but simply want to have a degree. Taking those into account, I would say it is fair to guesstimate the success rate down to 50%. Probably I was still a bit optimistic. Of course such a success rate is possible because of well standardized prescreening methods like GMAT which will make it or break it for a BBA holder to get into a good MBA program. So what would be the number without prescreening? I have no clue but definitely lower. So lets take a look at aviation, where due to the nature of the business, at most places there is no prescreening. Some schools like FSI or MESA prescreen but I have yet to hear about an FBO who does. DCA doesn’t either. It would also be very hard to do so as ones ability to learn to fly is hard to measure by regular standards. If one can’t handle it, it only becomes apparent after one has flown with several instructors and is well over the average hours. Unfortunatelly you have to to try to find out. There are no indicators that would ensure failure or success. Just because one was poor in high school does not meant he will be a bad pilot, and vice versa. So without prescreening just about everyone who wakes up one day with the dream of becoming a pilot can start flight training somewhere. And they do too as attrition in flight training is muchos higher than in a normal university. Just for the sake of the numbers: It takes you an average of 250-350 total training hours to finish from zero to MEI at most places. The low would be part 141 and the high would be part 61 due to the higher FAA requirements. Now take into account that an average CFI needs about 1200-1500 dual given to get into a position where he will become interesting for a regional or a part 135 operator. Where does that leave us? To me this tells that approximately every CFI needs to finish a minimum of 4 to 5 students from zero to MEI. Granted you also do other things like flight reviews, proficiency checks, maintenance flights but those don't account for the majority of the hours for a typical CFI even if he is working at an FBO. You also give instruction for people who do not want to instruct for time building or simply don’t want to go to the airlines. So let say (and this would depend on the specific school) you need about 1000TT dual given from those who train to be a CFI and the rest comes from other flights. You still need to finish 3-4 guys from zero all the way up. That right there is 66%-75% attrition. So that is 25%-33% graduation rate. I really have no clue how to figure out the average success rate for an average CFI in getting a job but it has to decrease the graduation rate well below 25% (especially nowadays) IMO. May be 15% or 20%? I have no clue but whatever it is, it won’t be 50% that is for sure. If there would not be any significant attrition than we would see the CFI population double/triple in every 1.5-2 years, or whatever is the average to finish all the training. BTW I forgot include all those CFIs who will leave once they start time building because of financial hardship. DCA is no exception. CFIs leave for financial reasons, some leave because they don’t get the time as fast as they hoped, some simply pick up a job while they are waiting for their number to come up and they stick to it… etc. When the hiring went on several guys were impatient to wait out their dual given requirement that makes one eligible for the interview. And of course there are those who figure out that instructing was really not for them. All this further decreases the success rate. On top of all this, when you read the posts here or elsewhere, pretty much everyone says who attended, that the program is very intense and competitive. 10% may sound too low but it is just a little intro for what is ahead if one has a major airline in front of him/her. I think many who once figured “I want to be an airline pilot!” need to do a reality check before diving into training and opening the checkbook. It is no cakewalk regardless if you go to an FBO, or to a known academy. Many will never make it.

August 1st, 2004, 13:22	#20
rausda27 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,260	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controve [ QUOTE ] Some schools like FSI or MESA prescreen but I have yet to hear about an FBO who does. DCA doesn’t either. [/ QUOTE ] Again, get your facts straight. The only "prescreening" that I had at FSA was showing picutre ID and a valid medical, then a routine drug test. They do administer apptitude testing, but this is late in the syllabus and is to help prepare students for the cognitive and psychological tesitng they may see someday at an airline.. Your posts are like the national enquirer..mostly BS

August 1st, 2004, 13:27	#21
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,186 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controve [ QUOTE ] 10% may sound too low but it is just a little intro for what is ahead if one has a major airline in front of him/her. [/ QUOTE ] A 90% washout between those starting training and those reaching their career goals? (And again, this isn't targeted at CAA, just a generic question aimed at understanding a statistic)

August 2nd, 2004, 23:08	#22
planediveguy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 319	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controve Hi Doug, Thanks for getting my login fixed... 10% is not a real number. Just by looking at the last Standz classes I would say that 70% to 80% of the sutdents that finished phase I of the program got hired. And before someonoe jumps out and drool over the percentage of students that finsih... It is a very demanding program, people describe the PPC as "drinking from a firehose", and on the Instrument Rating Course we open the valve a couple of turns! I have seen students go thorugh the program with ease, and those are the ones that are always ready for their flights, do their homework, etc. But since graduating from Standz in December I became appalled by the number of people that don't get it and eventually they realize that they don't want to put the effort and then they quit. I used to tell this story to my students on ground school: Imagine that you are starting your own business and that you will be hiring personnel next week. You tell your candidates that they will have to take a test during their interview... You then proceed to give them this red book that has all the questions that could be on the test with the correct answers!... the following week the results of the test show that some candidates had a score of 100%, some 90%, some 80% and so on... who would you hire first?

August 4th, 2004, 10:43	#23
cmsuav8r Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Warrensburg, MO/ KC, MO Posts: 590	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controve The most qualified, most experienced candidate. Test scores aren't everything. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img]

August 4th, 2004, 17:20	#24
chrisdahut1 Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Louisville, KY & Florida Posts: 268	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controve Well, a reality of life is that how you look on paper often weighs in very heavily on whether or not you get that job offer. It's not always the best way to determine abaility and suitability for a job, but it's how things are.

August 4th, 2004, 20:08	#25
cmsuav8r Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Warrensburg, MO/ KC, MO Posts: 590	Re: The guaraneteed interview, just Q, no controve Actually it seems that in this world it doesn't matter what is even on the paper, rather who walks the paper in for you.

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