Merlin Metro Driver

[tbmpilot]

Originally Posted by jerrywhite7

took him 8 months to get used to flying the metro (and he was flying 8 hours a day for the regionals).

WTF?

[KLB]

Originally Posted by tbmpilot

WTF?

The metro's a tough plane to get comfortable in. Everytime I feel that I'm starting to get comfortable flying it something comes up and humbles me. They say you really don't get good in it until you've hit 1000hrs in it. I just hit that point and some things that it does still catches me off guard! I get the job done flying it, but I won't say that I've gotten it completely figured out.

[spbrian]

Originally Posted by gomntwins

I've got thousands of hours in Metro's and would disagree with the landing with 15% torque. I land it flight idle for every landing. It takes time to learn the tricks to doing it, but landing at 15% generally leads to fast touchdown or eating up a lot of runway in the Metro. I've never had a tailstrike or even felt close to having one.

I should clarify per the company SOP's for 130 on final 20-30% tq (dependant upon rigging and weight) when tossing in full flaps (sop here is for no lower than 500' agl), start to reduce power to cross the fence at ref, this will take approx a zero thrust setting which typicaly feels to me to be about 18-14% tq at light weights, if your flying a heavy weight metro that can take off at 16K and land at 15.5K and your landing heavy then I have noticed that it can take a moderatly higher power setting to make it all work out, the main idea is to cross the threshold at ref to ref about -5 and establish flare at the point that you get a good stable ground effect and arrested descent idea is to be at approx ref -10 and gently pull out the power and let the mains touch.

130 to 500' full flaps, target ref +10 at the fence, ref at the top of the flare and touchdown at approx ref -10... And pat your head and rub your belly while rubbing your prayer beads.....

[jerrywhite7]

Originally Posted by KLB

The metro's a tough plane to get comfortable in. Everytime I feel that I'm starting to get comfortable flying it something comes up and humbles me. They say you really don't get good in it until you've hit 1000hrs in it. I just hit that point and some things that it does still catches me off guard! I get the job done flying it, but I won't say that I've gotten it completely figured out.

KLB Yeah, thank you for that. . . not that you cant "fly" a Metro at 10 hours in, but to really feel comfortable and truly feeling "PIC" in the plane. . . I see why a 1000 hours is a good place to be. Of course some pilots are faster than others, some not. (I'm usually with the "NOT")
Also different feels and power settings in both warm and cold climates is something to get used too. Not to mention mountain flying, different Icing and WX. yeah 800 to 1000 hours sound's good to me.

love to hear from some of the other "drivers" out there as well.

[jerrywhite7]

THE FUN CONTINUES!
Today we had a few lbs of fuel to burn off, so I got a call from my capt to meet me down at the airport and do some flying!
We ended up doing about 8 touch and Go's in the pattern. Great times! Greased several in, on centerline! I was ahead of the airplane for most of the time! Even did good when my engine "failed" ! And when my gear "failed".
Capt said things were much better .. . even had one of the flight school instructors in with me .. . he was suprised how fast the plane was! HA . . .

By the way, went by my old flight school where I was doing some parttime work, and I noticed that they took me off the offical schedule. BIG BUMMER!!! A lot of my students liked the fact they a true "commerical" pilot was teaching them. Oh well. . . time to freelance! So if you are in Central Texas and would like or need a partime instructor for your overflow students . . . or need a freelance guy. . give me a shout!

[hotice]

Originally Posted by jerrywhite7

SA-226 dash 10's

are you flying the sa226tc,or the sa226t(b). is it the long or short merlin.
We have all three. the 16,000, 13230, and the 12500 merlinIII(b)

[jerrywhite7]

Originally Posted by hotice

are you flying the sa226tc,or the sa226t(b). is it the long or short merlin.
We have all three. the 16,000, 13230, and the 12500 merlinIII(b)

226TC metro. .long merlin . .who do you fly for? All three. . nice!!!!

[puddlejumper]

Is the 226TC a single pilot airplane? I'm curious since you mentioned doing your first landings with passengers on board. Not real easy being 61.55 qualified as an SIC without three takeoffs and landings, unless of course you've been to Sim training.

Congrats on your corporate pilot job!

[planestupid]

Originally Posted by puddlejumper

Is the 226TC a single pilot airplane? I'm curious since you mentioned doing your first landings with passengers on board. Not real easy being 61.55 qualified as an SIC without three takeoffs and landings, unless of course you've been to Sim training.

Congrats on your corporate pilot job!

Ameriflite operates 226TCs single pilot. So I'd take a stab and say the 226TC is single pilot certed?

Congrats on the position BTW Jerry. Keep us posted with your adventures!

[planestupid]

From the Type Certificate Data Sheet, available from the FAA Here

"Minimum Crew One Pilot except as otherwise required by the Airplane Flight Manual."

What are some of the "except as otherwise required"s?

[jerrywhite7]

Good questions on the SIC on the Metro. Yes, our metro is single pilot, and I do not log SIC time. I only log time when I am PIC (which of course I couldnt log untill I met the part 61 requirements to log PIC time.) Basicly systems, emergency procedures, landings, the works. My capt (who is not building time) allows me to fly (and log) a lot of the flights.
The excptions to the SIC rule is that some manufactures of planes weighing less than 12500 can be cetrified as required two pilot planes (generlaly speaking) Also, (and this is when it gets weird) some insurance companies, (which we know this is who really runs things) can say that this airplane MUST be occupied by two quailified pilots.

For example, we called our insurance company and said, Hey we just added a pilot to the plane, can we get him on the insurance and get a break for having two "quailified" pilots on board.

Insurance company came back and said, "sure, but he needs to go to flight safety or some sort of certified school and get a signoff from them. Then every six months he needs to be check out. Also, from now on the plane can only be operated with TWO pilots that have gone through this type of training and recurrent training."
All in all, doing this would cost the company over $30,000 a year! Not good since the insuranace savings would not be that much. But if we did that, then I could log the SIC time, because we are now 'required" to have two quailifed pilots.

At tleast this is this how I read the regs and understand things. . . may the debates begin!

[wrxpilot]

Originally Posted by jerrywhite7

Also, (and this is when it gets weird) some insurance companies, (which we know this is who really runs things) can say that this airplane MUST be occupied by two quailified pilots.

For example, we called our insurance company and said, Hey we just added a pilot to the plane, can we get him on the insurance and get a break for having two "quailified" pilots on board.

Insurance company came back and said, "sure, but he needs to go to flight safety or some sort of certified school and get a signoff from them. Then every six months he needs to be check out. Also, from now on the plane can only be operated with TWO pilots that have gone through this type of training and recurrent training."
All in all, doing this would cost the company over $30,000 a year! Not good since the insuranace savings would not be that much. But if we did that, then I could log the SIC time, because we are now 'required" to have two quailifed pilots.

At tleast this is this how I read the regs and understand things. . . may the debates begin!

That's not really true, so be careful about that. Insurance requirements have no bearing on whether you can log SIC time in a single pilot airplane during part 91 operations.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Originally Posted by jerrywhite7

Insurance company came back and said, "sure, but he needs to go to flight safety or some sort of certified school and get a signoff from them. Then every six months he needs to be check out. Also, from now on the plane can only be operated with TWO pilots that have gone through this type of training and recurrent training."
All in all, doing this would cost the company over $30,000 a year! Not good since the insuranace savings would not be that much. But if we did that, then I could log the SIC time, because we are now 'required" to have two quailifed pilots.

Three quick thoughts:

1) Sounds like your insurance broker just bought a new Lexus.

B) Who told you that you could log SIC?

3) I can't stand when companies say that the premium decrease is not worth the cost of the training. What is more valuable to them? Thirty large, or having two properly qualified pilots up front when the going gets tough?

[puddlejumper]

Originally Posted by jerrywhite7

Good questions on the SIC on the Metro. Yes, our metro is single pilot, and I do not log SIC time. I only log time when I am PIC (which of course I couldnt log untill I met the part 61 requirements to log PIC time.) Basicly systems, emergency procedures, landings, the works. My capt (who is not building time) allows me to fly (and log) a lot of the flights.

I seem to remember reading about a light weight version of the Metro, or is it the Merlin, that does not require the PIC to have a type rating. Is this the case with the SA226 you are flying? Is the max gross takeoff weight 12,500# or less?

If a type rating is required, I regret to be the one to tell you that you can not log PIC time while you are the one manipulating the controls. See 61.51 on that.

Another thing you could look into, check your co-worker's (the captain's) certificate. He may very well have a restriction on his type rating stating that an SIC is required. I flew as SIC in a King Air 300 where this was the case. Of course, the experience requirements of 61.55 had to be met by me before legally carrying any passengers.

Even if the time is not logable, it's definitely an excellent opportunity and very valuable experience.

Look into getting the paperwork started and approved for an SIC type rating. It's as simple as the captain making a training log entry, filling out an application and going to the FSDO.

[jerrywhite7]

Grat discussions on the PIC and SIC!!! Ok, I did speak (write) out of line and have either looked it up, or asked on a few of the points

1) One can not log SIC in an airplane in which it is certified as a single pilot airplane. Exception is if operating under part 135 and/or the Administrator may issue a letter of authorization for the operation of the airplane to be a two pilot aircraft thus requiring two quailified pilots one PIC and one SIC

2) If the PIC were to also hold a current and vailid instructor certificate for the catagory and class of airplane. Then the flight can then be a "training" flight in which both pilots can log PIC time as long as the other pilot holds a current and vaild rating for that airplane.

Note, the metro does not require a type rating. We are "officially" under 12,500. Multiengine Airplane land with a high altitude endorsement and a high pro endorsement as well. And you can log it as PIC.

I have a buddy whoes company bought a merlin . .he has a commerical multiengine and all the proper endorsements. . . he got about 30 hours in the plane, and was going to fly it as PIC. He later figured out, that he really needed about 200 or more hours in the plane to fly it single handed (for safety, not regs) and they never got into the merlin again. (it sits next to our metro in our hanger. . hasnt moved in nearly a year!!)

So PIC. . yes. . . SIC no!!!! Unless a letter from the admistrator is to be given, which is not the case.

I made a mistake . . I "assumed" the regs and what I "heard" and did not look into it myself. The regs point it out, and I also sought good advice.

Good lesson!!!!
what does AOPA always say? "A good pilot is always learning!"

[SurfandSun]

So what's the final verdict then? Are you just logging PIC the legs that you fly and no SIC?

Sorry, but after reading all these posts I'm confused on the final outcome of this.

[jerrywhite7]

ha. . yes, I'm still doing what I've been doing this whole time. . . Logging only the legs and times I fly as the sole manipulator of the controls. . . the other times is just good learning experience!

[jerrywhite7]

went to the plane yesterday to the avionics shop and took a few pic's of the G600 (garmin 600) install. I also put a fresh coat of wax on the plane and plan on going next week to clean up a little bit more.
Anyway here are the pic's . . .
Did I mention that I'm also getting an autopilot heading bug on my side and a new altimeter!!! Man I'm happy!!

Capt gets the G600

[gomntwins]

Originally Posted by jerrywhite7

Did I mention that I'm also getting an autopilot heading bug on my side and a new altimeter!!! Man I'm happy!!

Capt gets the G600

I've never even seen a metro with an autopilot let alone flown one! I would think that would take most of the fun out of the metro!

[jerrywhite7]

Originally Posted by gomntwins

I've never even seen a metro with an autopilot let alone flown one! I would think that would take most of the fun out of the metro!

Does take the "fun" out of it . . . but "george" can fly a hell'a lot better than me. . . PAX really like it.
Not that I get to use it mind you . . . at least not all the time, capt still wants be to be able to hand fly the plane as good to "george" as I can. But I just about there!!! Or at least I'm getting closer to it!

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by gomntwins

I've never even seen a metro with an autopilot let alone flown one! I would think that would take most of the fun out of the metro!

Most of ours have them grant it they are two axis and you have to watch them like a hawk.

[jerrywhite7]

Got a call from the flight school the other day, and asked if I could take a "new pilot" up to Dallas for a local area familiarzation flight! (I think that is code for charter) Anyway, I ended up in Dallas (52F northwest airport) for about 6 hours. At least the place has a place to eat and I could watch planes land all day!
They guy was really nice and gave me a "bill" for my waiting around for him all day!!!


It is funny, I used to be a "little" nervous about going into the class B airspace, but since flying corporate I feel alot easier about it. It is just another place, no big deal.

Also he asked me to take the controls for a while, and I realized as I was flying how much better my pilot skills are!!! Little planes are WAY EASY TO FLY!!! MAN!!!! anyway, all this to say that I can tell I am learning alot these days and I am truly happy and blessed to be getting to do this for a living!!!

[ahw01]

"new pilot" up to Dallas for a local area familiarzation flight"

Where do I sign up for that?

Alex.

[mojo6911]

Watch out on those 134.5 flights. I especially wouldn't post something like that in a forum.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

Watch out on those 134.5 flights. I especially wouldn't post something like that in a forum.

It risks your certs and not to mention it enables cheapasses to avoid the hurting 135 industry.