Part 91/Part135

Kalikiano · August 29th, 2009, 10:20

Company X wants to start a flight department. Company X creates company Y as the flight department. Would that be usable under part 91. Company Y would be an on demand air carrier but only for company X.

dc3flyer · August 29th, 2009, 10:45

Yes

TFaudree_ERAU · August 29th, 2009, 17:46

91.501

particlem86 · September 8th, 2009, 14:33

What about if company X & Y want to form company Z to be the flight department for both companies?
Company X and Y both "own" company Z which is who then operates and flies to airplane, but only for companies X and Y?

SteveC · September 8th, 2009, 16:22

Here is some good background information for you guys:

Attached copy: AC120-12A.pdf

Link: AC120-12A

Doug Taylor · September 8th, 2009, 16:29

Thought you were on vacay in the unabomber cabin at an undisclosed location?

SteveC · September 8th, 2009, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Thought you were on vacay in the unabomber cabin at an undisclosed location?

Was.

Back in town now, just finished 9 holes, got some house MX to do then get ready to go back to flying tomorrow.

Oh, Ted said to say Hi!

Doug Taylor · September 8th, 2009, 16:55

If anyone needs the Walh Groomsmen Trimmer, it's gotta be good old Ted!

OldTownPilot · September 8th, 2009, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by particlem86

What about if company X & Y want to form company Z to be the flight department for both companies?
Company X and Y both "own" company Z which is who then operates and flies to airplane, but only for companies X and Y?

91 K

TFaudree_ERAU · September 10th, 2009, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by particlem86

What about if company X & Y want to form company Z to be the flight department for both companies?
Company X and Y both "own" company Z which is who then operates and flies to airplane, but only for companies X and Y?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

91 K

Not exactly. This is exactly how our flight department is set up. Company A & B decide to buy an aircraft jointly. They set up Company C to "own" the aircraft. They then set up Company D to employ the pilots. Company C leases the aircraft to both A and B. This lease is filed with the FAA before the first flight under the new lease. Company D has a contract with Company C to manage/crew the aircraft.

Clear as mud?

minitour · September 11th, 2009, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFaudree_ERAU

Not exactly. This is exactly how our flight department is set up. Company A & B decide to buy an aircraft jointly. They set up Company C to "own" the aircraft. They then set up Company D to employ the pilots. Company C leases the aircraft to both A and B. This lease is filed with the FAA before the first flight under the new lease. Company D has a contract with Company C to manage/crew the aircraft.

Clear as mud?

Sounds about right to me.

Keep things as separate as possible. There's no reason for company A to lose it's ass in the lawsuit when the plane breaks someone's corn field, house, car, etc. when you can simply (as you've done) have company C (which "owns" the plane) lose its ass and not effect company A or B.

-mini

TFaudree_ERAU · September 11th, 2009, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by minitour

Sounds about right to me.

Keep things as separate as possible. There's no reason for company A to lose it's ass in the lawsuit when the plane breaks someone's corn field, house, car, etc. when you can simply (as you've done) have company C (which "owns" the plane) lose its ass and not effect company A or B.

-mini

Yeah, I don't like it either, but that's the way it was set up even before I got here. Unfortunately in this game, its all about rich folk using every trick in the book to distance themselves from liability.

minitour · September 11th, 2009, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFaudree_ERAU

Yeah, I don't like it either...

I sure as hell do. You don't get rich by being stupid! That's well thought out.

-mini

TFaudree_ERAU · September 11th, 2009, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by minitour

I sure as hell do. You don't get rich by being stupid! That's well thought out.

-mini

The more complex a scheme, the more chances for a determined prosecution lawyer to find a mis-worded contract in the aftermath.

minitour · September 11th, 2009, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFaudree_ERAU

The more complex a scheme, the more chances for a determined prosecution lawyer to find a mis-worded contract in the aftermath.

I'm sure your company's legal department has that covered. The law isn't about truth or justice...it's about how much money you can pump into it. The more "unlimited" the resources, the more the law works in your favor.

-mini

TFaudree_ERAU · September 11th, 2009, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by minitour

I'm sure your company's legal department has that covered.

I spent 6 months trying to convince them that we needed a written contract between the pilot company and the flight department. They insisted they didn't.

Then we hired a gray haired 65 year old guy, he told them we needed one, and they had it ready the next day.

minitour · September 11th, 2009, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFaudree_ERAU

I spent 6 months trying to convince them that we needed a written contract between the pilot company and the flight department. They insisted they didn't.

Then we hired a gray haired 65 year old guy, he told them we needed one, and they had it ready the next day.

Solution - dye your hair gray.

-mini

August 29th, 2009, 10:20	#1
Kalikiano Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: way yonder Posts: 74	Part 91/Part135 Company X wants to start a flight department. Company X creates company Y as the flight department. Would that be usable under part 91. Company Y would be an on demand air carrier but only for company X.

August 29th, 2009, 10:45	#2
dc3flyer Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Everywhere Posts: 1,547	Re: Part 91/Part135 Yes __________________ Paid to wait.... Fly for fun!

August 29th, 2009, 17:46	#3
TFaudree_ERAU Old Skool Join Date: May 2006 Location: Virginia is for Lovers, yacht chasing on the weekends Posts: 2,949	Re: Part 91/Part135 91.501

September 8th, 2009, 14:33	#4
particlem86 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Corn fields, USA Posts: 18	Re: Part 91/Part135 What about if company X & Y want to form company Z to be the flight department for both companies? Company X and Y both "own" company Z which is who then operates and flies to airplane, but only for companies X and Y?

September 8th, 2009, 16:22	#5
SteveC Ameliorator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 11,203	Re: Part 91/Part135 Here is some good background information for you guys: Attached copy: AC120-12A.pdf Link: AC120-12A __________________ . A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila. ~Mitch Ratcliffe

September 8th, 2009, 16:29	#6
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 50,368 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Part 91/Part135 Thought you were on vacay in the unabomber cabin at an undisclosed location? __________________ Doug Taylor PPL-SEL PA-38 Typed

September 8th, 2009, 16:55	#8
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 50,368 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Part 91/Part135 If anyone needs the Walh Groomsmen Trimmer, it's gotta be good old Ted! __________________ Doug Taylor PPL-SEL PA-38 Typed

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