Best small SE/ME corporate aircraft

[Kalikiano]

What are the best SE/ME light aircraft for small trips around 3-5 people + pilot and around 650+nm range. Most trips will be from DC to Pittsburgh or DC to norfolk. The 650 would cover most of the longer trips. The issue I am having so far is the useful load.

I have been looking at Bonanza/saratoga/Mooneys/ Cessna 206 & 210's. I have only flown 172s and PA-44s so my experience is minimal with other aircraft.

for light ME aircraft I was thinking Beechcraft Baron Cesna 310 and piper twin comanche.

Price may be an issue so the nicer planes like a brand new piper mirage might be out of the question.

Any suggestions considering operating costs useful load etc...


What would the insurance minimums be for most of these aircraft maybe like 10hours PIC like most aircraft rental locations require?

[ntbjounin]

bonanza is fast, and has that many seats. 210 can haul a lot but not as fast. baron is $$$ but fast and all of the above.

i'd probably pick the bo if it were my $

if you really want a twin, try the seneca.... 6 seats, and not as $ as baron.

[minitour]

Seneca II

FIKI, Turbo'd (though not pressurized, so you'll probably be below 10 most of the time) and does the ~PIT-IAD trip quite well with 3-4 peeps and reasonable bags. I've done that more than a few times.

Relatively roomy too. Oh, and they can be had really cheap now. Insurance...probably 500-600 TT, 100 ME and 10-15 dual or some sort of schooling.

-mini

[Crockrocket94]

How about a Cherokee Six or Saratoga? They have room, but I am not sure of the useful load.

[deadstick]

FIKI is big in that area. It might x-out many SELs off that list. Make sure it is -- fine print, etc. Another option is the PA31 if you want the pax to be comfy. Insurance will be more.

It just takes money.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by deadstick

FIKI is big in that area. It might x-out many SELs off that list. Make sure it is -- fine print, etc. Another option is the PA31 if you want the pax to be comfy. Insurance will be more.

It just takes money.

Lots of chieftains to be had right now if you want that version of the 31. The straight navajo seems like kind of a dog, to be honest...but I'm biased.

You can get an A36 or even a 210 with a FIKI TKS system, but that's going to be $$$ unless it's already equipped, plus single engine IFR in icing...eh.

Seneca II...every time. Or Baron...I love a 58 Baron.

-mini

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Baron for reasonably fast, economical and reliable. Navajo for big, comfortable and slightly more money to operate. Seneca would work, but you'd run out of useful load with more than a couple pax in the back.

I do ORF-IAD/JYO-ORF in a Cirrus an average of twice a week, and I would LOVE to be in late 90s' model Baron 58

[minitour]

Originally Posted by TFaudree_ERAU

Seneca would work, but you'd run out of useful load with more than a couple pax in the back.

Nah. A nice II is going to be a pretty light airframe (relative to the MGW). DC-PIT is nooooooo problem mon in that plane.

-mini

[OldTownPilot]

But he's also trying to talk about 650nm. DC-PIT is a bit shorter than that

To go 650 nm with 6 on board (inclubing the) pilot you really are looking at navajos, 421s and the like. A Barron might be able to do it, but I'm not sure i'd want to be in the back of a barron for 3+ hours with all the seats full. (that is if everyone on board is a 180-200 lb adult) If you are talking a family of 5 (with 3 kids) they will weigh less and take up less space so a Barron might be an ok airplane.

I'd look at used Malibus as well, 6 people, and a good amount of space, and I know it will go 650nm not a problem. I don't know when the range vs payload tradeoff begins though.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

But he's also trying to talk about 650nm. DC-PIT is a bit shorter than that

I read it as "small trips around 3-5 people + pilot and around 650+nm range" meaning same plane, two trip requirements. 650nm isn't exactly a "small trip" in a baron, seneca, 210, etc (hell, that's not a small trip in our plane). If I misunderstood 3-5 people being a separate trip than 650 miles, then disregard.

If you want 650miles and 6 people, then yes you are indeedy needing something bigger, faster, carrying more. A Baron would be tight. Possible, but tight.

In a Baron that's probably 3.6 hours at say 200pph, so you need 700 pounds of fuel plus reserves (150)...so 850 pounds (~140gal) just in fuel.

Carrying all 200 pound people and no bags, you're looking at a 1200# load...

So you're going to need a baron that's ~3500# empty. I'm sure they're out there, but that's still going to be tight... Start adding things like bags, charts, cowl plugs, aircraft covers, oil, "refreshments" in the back, "larger than average" pax and other "stuff" and you really are looking at bigger 6-7 place twins.

-mini

[Maurus]

Maybe try an Aztec -250 model?

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Whoops. I read

The 650 would cover most of the longer trips.

to mean the Citation 650 would cover most of the longer trips.

[OldTownPilot]

That would be one way to solve all the problems.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by TFaudree_ERAU

Whoops. I read

to mean the Citation 650 would cover most of the longer trips.

I'd think a 650 could easily do the 3-5 pax + crew DC-PIT also. Sounds like a winner!



-mini

[Crockrocket94]

Or G650


Kid. Kid.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by Crockrocket94

Or G650


Kid. Kid.

But then you have to hire someone to carry the pilot's bags. G-whiz pilots don't do bags.

...so I'm told.

-mini

[Crockrocket94]

G450 + Guys are funny because when they go back to flying a "basic" jet they forget they don't have auto throttles

[AirmetTango]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

But he's also trying to talk about 650nm. DC-PIT is a bit shorter than that

To go 650 nm with 6 on board (inclubing the) pilot you really are looking at navajos, 421s and the like. A Barron might be able to do it, but I'm not sure i'd want to be in the back of a barron for 3+ hours with all the seats full. (that is if everyone on board is a 180-200 lb adult) If you are talking a family of 5 (with 3 kids) they will weigh less and take up less space so a Barron might be an ok airplane.

I'd look at used Malibus as well, 6 people, and a good amount of space, and I know it will go 650nm not a problem. I don't know when the range vs payload tradeoff begins though.

I'm kinda late to the party, but for what it's worth, the Malibus are out as well. Our Malibu has about 1300# useful load. Burning 20 gal/hr, and getting 190 KTAS, it's pretty easy to do the math for a 650nm trip. Including an IFR reserve, you'd be real lucky to get 4 total full sized adults aboard...pray for no headwind, and no one can bring a change of underwear or a toothbrush.

[Crockrocket94]

or get an nice 310R.

I guess they have something like 800+ lbs useful load when filled with fuel.

That's not bad!

[roundout]

Tell them to get off their wallet. You are looking at a 421C or a Navajo. None of the singles will do it and a Baron won't do it, either. With the market the way it is now, I wouldn't put a C90 King Air out of the question. Your problem then becomes insurance.

What is the budget for acquisition, maintenance, training, and operating the aircraft?