How hard to go from 121 to 91/135- stigma?

[higney85]

I have always heard that from the first real job you get into you shape your career. The shape is a Y of either going the 121 route (airline) or the corporate route (both 91 and 135). I have heard of many hopping over to netjets with a regional background, but what about going from regionals to a good 91 gig or a 135 company? Is there really a stigma that guys need to keep on their side of the fence? As a new 121 guy I can say that its convenient to not toss bags and have flight plans handed to me, not to mention a flight attendant and a door that seperates me from "the elements" aka- pax. I do know that in most cases the 91/135 world would require a little more work on the bags/flight planning/ and customer relations arena. I think that the extra work is well worth the extra money and QOL that many companies offer. I am at a regional like many others to get that magical 1000 PIC JET with the ATP and type rating- by staying the 4 years or so to do that would I put myself at a disadvantage to try and get on the corporate side of the world? I would have the advantage of only being 24-25yrs old at the point of having the time, but would the stigma of being in the airline world still shadow me even though I will still be young (compared to others currently in the industry)? I know connections are important to get the job, but once you sit in the cockpit will a long time corporate guy have an bad opinion of someone coming over from the airline world? Just curious.

[ananoman]

I think the fact that you are young and have not been at an airline too long is in your favor. I know where I work, the owner has said that he will never hire another airline pilot, but then qualified it by saying that he would consider a younger candidate that has only been at a regional for a few years. Some cry foul at this line of thinking, but he did not start out with this negative view of airline pilots. He came to this conclusion after being burned by several pilots who did not work out. Besides the considerable cost involved with training someone new, the general unhappiness they bring to the existing pilot group is a real drag. The overtime everyone else has to work until someone else can be hired and trained doesn't help much either.

[Texasspilot]

I've heard of a few going from regional to 135 however there is a stigma attached and more than that theres the unfamiliarity with the equipment.

Most of the really good charter places require time in type and your not gonna get that at a regional. Not to say it can't happen but it may not. Of course I met one of the guys flying for Bell helicopter and he was a CP at ASA and wen't to bell to fly the Embraer 120.

I think itd take more legwork on your part, i.e. getting to know people, showing your face aruond a bit and just letting them see that your a good guy and that you really wanna work wherever it is.

I'd agree your age will probaby help you out.

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by higney85

As a new 121 guy I can say that its convenient to not toss bags and have flight plans handed to me, not to mention a flight attendant and a door that separates me from "the elements" aka- pax.

The problem is...the "elements" of corp are what pays your(our) salary.
Airlines are 80% flying, 20% other stuff.
Corp is 20% flying, 80% other stuff.

By the way, many corp flight departments, as well as NetJets, have dispatchers and preplanned flights also. In our case, we are dispatched and released just like "the airlines" and also have meteorologists on staff. It frees us to do the other stuff. The actual flying part is minuscule. I always laugh when people say they don't want to "load bags." We aren't loading a DC10 folks. There are usually only 1 or 2 pax.

If you want to separated from "the elements," don't come here (91/135).

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Texasspilot

Most of the really good charter places require time in type and your not gonna get that at a regional.

Browsing thru the job listings I get every week or so, there are a LOT of open positions out there in the corporate world. Lears, Gulfstreams, Challengers, and Hawkers make up the bulk of the job openings. Almost all require time in type.

Although all is not lost for the 121 folks - I know of two people, a CA and an FO, at my company that recently left for Netjets. I was reading thru their marketing material and was really impressed with all the training the pilots go thru.

[Asta]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

Airlines are 80% flying, 20% other stuff.
Corp is 20% flying, 80% other stuff.

Capt -- What does the "other stuff" consist of, out of curiosity?

[dieselman1220]

Im kinda backwards im 21 at a 135 flying WW24s and G2s, hoping to skip the regionals and go straight to the majors, hopefully it will work out for me as well as you.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Asta

Capt -- What does the "other stuff" consist of, out of curiosity?

taking care of pax, loading bags, take care of catering, ordering fuel, giving safety briefings, etc.........

No I am not a corp pilot, but have taken a few corporate trips.

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by JEP

taking care of pax, loading bags, take care of catering, ordering fuel, giving safety briefings.........

Checking t/o and landing data, second segment climb numbers,overseeing the fuel and O2 servicing, ordering/checking the lav service, cleaning the plane, restocking the plane, requesting a/c wash/wax while on trips, arranging hangar space, arranging deicing, arranging transport to and from hotel, making sure owner arrangement are in place prior to landing, checking solar activity for flights above FL430, verifying customs arrangements, updating Jeps, ordering crew food, and the normal stuff like checking weather and flightplan data. Oh yea, and making sure you get all your airline, hotel and avtrip points ....and you have :45 mins

Keep in mind that while the airlines do some of this stuff, they do it from base cities with familiar station personnel, equipment and policies. Their ground personnel know when the plane is coming and what they need. We are running a corp airline with next to no outlying infrastructure. We have to relate what we need to the FBOs when we get there. The line guys from the forum know about us, sometimes we need everything under the sun, and the next day we don't need anything.

[xcorporate]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

Checking t/o and landing data, second segment climb numbers,overseeing the fuel and O2 servicing, ordering/checking the lav service, cleaning the plane, restocking the plane, requesting a/c wash/wax while on trips, arranging hangar space, arranging deicing, arranging transport to and from hotel, making sure owner arrangement are in place prior to landing, checking solar activity for flights above FL430, verifying customs arrangements, updating Jeps, ordering crew food, and the normal stuff like checking weather and flightplan data. Oh yea, and making sure you get all your airline, hotel and avtrip points ....and you have :45 mins

Keep in mind that while the airlines do some of this stuff, they do it from base cities with familiar station personnel, equipment and policies. Their ground personnel know when the plane is coming and what they need. We are running a corp airline with next to no outlying infrastructure. We have to relate what we need to the FBOs when we get there. The line guys from the forum know about us, sometimes we need everything under the sun, and the next day we don't need anything.

VERY well said.

I interviewed last week with NJ. Hope to hear something by Tuesday.

[Looking4Lower]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

verifying customs arrangements, updating \

If the company requires the pilots to handle their own customs arrangements, you can sometimes kill an entire day sending faxes and emails, making phonecalls, doing paperwork, and coordinating with various parties.

Flying the airplane is the last thing on your mind at that point, and when it comes time to fly it feels like a break or a tiny mini-vacation from the real work.

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by Looking4Lower

If the company requires the pilots to handle their own customs arrangements, you can sometimes kill an entire day sending faxes and emails, making phone calls, doing paperwork, and coordinating with various parties.

The company does set everything up, but we still have to make calls to confirm arrangements and update arrival times. Jepps Int'l Flight planning plans the flights and sets up handlers.

Originally Posted by xcorporate

I interviewed last week with NJ. Hope to hear something by Tuesday.

Good Luck, let us know how it goes.

[Looking4Lower]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

The company does set everything up, but we still have to make calls to confirm arrangements and update arrival times. Jepps Int'l Flight planning plans the flights and sets up handlers.

I have worked for a company that placed a lot of the "set up" burden on the PIC and other pilots. I work for a company now that uses outside resources much more for this type of stuff (i.e. Universal). Life is good.

[Asta]

I assume, then, that one is not paid per flight hour, correct? If flying is only 20% of the job, pay must not be structured as at the airline: you're paid for what you fly. Is it a salaried or hourly job?

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by Asta

I assume, then, that one is not paid per flight hour, correct? If flying is only 20% of the job, pay must not be structured as at the airline: you're paid for what you fly. Is it a salaried or hourly job?

Corp jobs are typically salaried. We also show up 1-2 hours prior to a flight, not :30 min like the airlines.

[xcorporate]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

The company does set everything up, but we still have to make calls to confirm arrangements and update arrival times. Jepps Int'l Flight planning plans the flights and sets up handlers.


Good Luck, let us know how it goes.

Hired! got the nod last week. Waiting for an Ultra or an Excel slot to open up in CMH.

[GAPILOT]

Originally Posted by xcorporate

Hired! got the nod last week. Waiting for an Ultra or an Excel slot to open up in CMH.

Congrats. Enjoy.

[amorris311]

congrats man!

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by xcorporate

Hired! got the nod last week. Waiting for an Ultra or an Excel slot to open up in CMH.

Congratulations, welcome to the group. I hope you enjoy it. Good luck with indoc and sim.