cessna 340A two pilots on part 135?

[KHartman84]

I was wondering if a cessna 340 would typically fly two pilots, or would you generally fly single pilot? the reason I ask is because I may have the opportunity to fly a 340 but dont meet the part 135 IFR X-C MINIMUMS, so cant legally fly it single pilot. I have 1500 TT but only 350 X-C.

[WAFlyBoy]

You might already know this, but part 135 cross-country counts whenever you fly from one airport to another.... it doesn't have to be 50nm.

So maybe you have more cross-country than you think?

[ATPInstructor]

Are you counting x-country as a flight between any two different airports or only as a flight 50 nm away from the departure airport. I say this because for the purpose of ratings the 50 nm rule must be used, but 135 mins are based upon xc being any flight between two different airports.

You would not be the first to have to put a x-country correction in the logbook after you adjusted for all the <50nm flights.

Regarding your question the Cessna 340 would usually be a one pilot operation.

Best of Luck

WDK

[KHartman84]

Yes I know about the 50nm rule... and since I got the commercial ticket I have been logging every flight from point A to B as a x-c. I will look into the years prior, but that will still leave me short by at least 100 hours. I am also working on a contract job in a bonanza making a trip twice a week to NYC... thatll help log it up before moving into this 340... being a CFI with all primary students make it challenging to log up this xc time regardless. hopefully a few more good months and Ill be there.

[Bandit_Driver]

I am not sure about your exact situation, but one can log time in a single pilot a/c as an SIC if the companies ops specs require 2 pilots for that aircraft.

[jonnyb]

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

I am not sure about your exact situation, but one can log time in a single pilot a/c as an SIC if the companies ops specs require 2 pilots for that aircraft.

There is some truth to this statement, however, SIC time in a C-340 will be looked at as shady or strange just about anywhere one goes in the future.

[FlyboyZR1]

If the aircraft doesn't have an approved autopilot then it may require an SIC if operated under FAR 135.

[jonnyb]

Originally Posted by FlyboyZR1

If the aircraft doesn't have an approved autopilot then it may require an SIC if operated under FAR 135.

Good point, however, I'm pretty sure a C-340 is certified exclusively for single pilot operations. Although, I was wrong once.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by jonnyb

Good point, however, I'm pretty sure a C-340 is certified exclusively for single pilot operations. Although, I was wrong once.

I think that the point is that the 135 regs (IFR passenger carrying, anyway) requires two pilots, regardless of what the airplane is certified for. In 135 ops an SIC is a legitimate required crew member. Still probably not very valuable time in the overall picture, but when someone is trying to scrape together every tenth of an hour of twin time they can....

(By the way, people often talk about the 135/SIC/single-pilot-with-autopilot rules in a back-wards way, saying that ops specs allow a company to operate with an SIC. In reality the 135 rules say that you must use two pilots for passenger carrying IFR ops, but many companies have ops specs exemptions that allow them to fly with a single pilot with an approved autopilot. Kind of a nit-picky point, but it comes in handy in some circumstances.

For example, in my last 135 (piston twin) job we had the exemption that allowed single pilot ops. We had some customers that wanted two pilots on board for their flights, and because the 135 regs say that two are required but the ops specs allow (allow, not require) us to operate with only one, it was perfectly legitimate for us to log PIC/SIC time for those flights. Just because we could operate single pilot didn't mean we had to, and since the SIC is required by 135 regs it is perfectly legitimate, loggable SIC time.)

[jonnyb]

Yeah Steve, I forgot about the 135 two pilot reg, good call. As far as the 135 SIC stuff, your statement is true and if one can log SIC part 135 in a King Air, the same should be able to be accomplished in a C-340. Still kinda wierd though if you ask me, but you didn't!

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by jonnyb

Good point, however, I'm pretty sure a C-340 is certified exclusively for single pilot operations. Although, I was wrong once.

if the a/p isn't working, even if installed and certified with it, it'll need two pilots. from my understanding this is why cape air has some sic's sitting around working the ramp. sic in a 402.

it's rare to see this though. and *probably* only useful if you stay with that company.

*EDIT: looks like you already covered this. nevermind*

[FlyOrDie]

Originally Posted by JonnyB

Yeah Steve, I forgot about the 135 two pilot reg, good call. As far as the 135 SIC stuff, your statement is true and if one can log SIC part 135 in a King Air, the same should be able to be accomplished in a C-340. Still kinda wierd though if you ask me, but you didn't!

I believe that you cannot legally have an SIC on board because of the following regulation.

Sec. 135.151

Cockpit voice recorders.

(a) After October 11, 1991, no person may operate a multiengine, turbine- powered airplane or rotorcraft having a passenger seating configuration of six or more and for which two pilots are required by certification or operating rules unless it is equipped with an approved cockpit voice recorder that

That regulation seems to rule out any SIC positions in aircraft not having a CVR. If the operating rules require 2 pilots then the aircraft must have a CVR. At my company to legally comply with this rule when the charter client requests 2 pilots the PIC flies and does EVERYTHING and the second pilot touches nothing but can assist with looking out for traffic.

[averyrm]

C-340 is piston.

[FlyOrDie]

Originally Posted by averyrm

C-340 is piston.

Yes but a King Air is not.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by FlyOrDie

Yes but a King Air is not.

Yes, but many operators that use King Airs for charter have added a CVR. Not very difficult to do.

[jonnyb]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Yes, but many operators that use King Airs for charter have added a CVR. Not very difficult to do.

Yes, Steve is correct. I would say MOST 135 King Airs are CVR equiped, I never flown one or seen one without a CVR.