F/O mins

[averyrm]

So there's a mid-sized company who's CEO I may be able to get a recomendation from. They fly a King Air 300 and a Lear 35a. He told me to put in an application for a pilot position but I don't think he knows much about insurance requirements and that I only have ~400 hours. He only knows that I fly.

My question is, does anyone know - in the ballpark - the hours I'd need for insurance. I realize it varies from place to place, but I don't want to put an application in unless I have a snowball's chance at getting a job.

I should probably just put one in anyways, but any advice is appreciated.

[ready2fly]

I think for the King Air, probably 1200TT and 100 ME... could be wrong. King Airs are mostly 1 pilot aircraft anyhow.

For the Lear.... probably 4500 TT, 1000 ME, 500 turbine.... again, could be wrong.

Just going by things I've read here and on job listings.

I only wish it worked that way. My uncle's company (he's the CEO) flies a Falcon 100, a Lear and a high performance piston twin... but, I'm sitting at 270 and don't have a snowballs chance in hell of flying any of those aircraft for quite some time.

[EatSleepFly]

If it weren't for the insurance company, I'd be flying our Lear 35 right now. They wanted me to have 2000TT and 500 multi with 100 turbine at first. Then we talked them down to just 400 turbine and whatever total time I had. Company couldn't wait around till I got that, so they hired someone else to fly the Lear and left me the option to fly it once the insurance company gives me the OK.

For the King Air, I got hired as SIC with about 800TT and 75 multi. BUT, that was for 135 pax. charter (2 pilots required or autopilot authorization) and the company always flies with 2 pilots regardless of the autopilot authorization. If the operation that you're referring to is part 91, then theres a pretty good chance they won't fly the King Air with 2 pilots...and even if they did, one would be just sitting there with no official function (can't have an SIC under part 91 in a one-pilot airplane).

Insurance companies suck, but I would put in an app. anyways. Can't hurt.

[averyrm]

Yeah, it is part 91, and I'm 95% sure the kingair 300 needs a type rating so logging the time wouldn't work unless I had the type.

[jtrain609]

Actually, if it's a King Air 350 (was there a 300 model?) then it would require a type rating. Is the 350 single pilot certified? I didn't think it was, or I figured that regionals would be flying B1900D's with one pilot (same type certificate). Or are the 121 rules different? Something tells me I'm confused about something...somewhere.

[EatSleepFly]

There is a 300 model (looks like a 200, not long like a 350), and it does require a type because its over 12.5k. It is still type-certificated single pilot though (I belive).

The 350 and B1900 can also be flown single pilot, though most don't. Also, I heard recently that the 350 and 1900 aren't the same type rating anymore like they used to be...not sure if thats true or just some false info.

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, if it's a King Air 350 (was there a 300 model?) then it would require a type rating. Is the 350 single pilot certified? I didn't think it was, or I figured that regionals would be flying B1900D's with one pilot (same type certificate). Or are the 121 rules different? Something tells me I'm confused about something...somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like ESF said, and additionally, the 1900 and 350 are indeed single-pilot certified, but the regionals would require 2 pilots because of the pax. When I flew cargo, my buddies at Ameriflight flew the 1900C single pilot (autopilot in lieu of SIC) because they were all cargo. Was the same with the SA-226/227 Metro.....single pilot certed, and flown that way in cargo, but never in regional pax.

[Mr_Creepy]

By default the 300, 350 and the 1900 require two pilots. You can get an exemption added to your certificate that removes the "Second in command required" line

[ananoman]

From what I understand, there are two ways to get the type rating in these aircraft:

If you are feeling good, you can take the checkride 'solo' and demonstrate single pilot competency. This gives you a type rating without the 'SIC required'.

It is much easier to take the checkride with a crew member and get the type rating that requires a SIC.

All you have to do to get the SIC requirement removed is do a few approaches single pilot during a recurrency check and submit another 8710.

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
All you have to do to get the SIC requirement removed is do a few approaches single pilot during a recurrency check and submit another 8710.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the person giving the check ride is an examiner or inspector! Most of our check airmen were just that - check airmen! The DE's were too busy giving initial types.

[C650CPT]

[ QUOTE ]
My question is, does anyone know - in the ballpark - the hours I'd need for insurance. I realize it varies from place to place, but I don't want to put an application in unless I have a snowball's chance at getting a job.

[/ QUOTE ]

For SIC requirements time is important, but what is becoming more important is a type rating. We are constantly rehashing this with our insurance carrier. You obvioulsly need a certain number of hours ... the ones here are fair ... but when it comes to mid size jets the insurance companies are really pushing for type rated copilots. My company recently discussed using a 14,000 hr. pilot, but because he wasn't typed in our airplane the insurance company wouldn't give him the OK untill they reviewed his pilot history. This guy used to be a 747 capt., yet if we introduced a 4000 hr. pilot with a type rating the insurance company wouldn't hesitate to give thier blessing, and its not like we are paying the minimum premiums either.
Mark my word, in time a type will be required for all SIC operations or at the minimum a certificate of training from one of the "school" houses.

Jim

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
...Mark my word, in time a type will be required for all SIC operations or at the minimum a certificate of training from one of the "school" houses.

Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think that employers will be ponying-up for the type rating for new employees? Or does the market look like it will stay saturated enough that the SIC wanna-be's will have to "pay for training" at this level also?

[averyrm]

Thanks for the advice and help guys.

[flyboy04]

Nothing like digging up these old posts, but im in a simular situation to this. I have about 600 total time and 50 hours multi, and I was asked to send in a resume for a SIC position. I know its part 91, is it possible to satisfy insurance requirements with low time as long as you do training at simcom or some other place?

[jets]

I believe it's all about who you know in the corporate world. A friend of mine has a TT of 550 and just got his instrument, commercial and multi in three weeks and is flying SIC in a lear 35. He had ten hours of multi before his first trip in the 35. Now he has an additional 10 hrs. in the 35.

But he is only a contract pilot for them and has only gone on one trip.