Thank you!!!

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by JEP

That seems to be a personal choice. If folks cannot or choose not to keep it under control, then there is nothing you can do about it. Those same folks are going to consume, no matter the location. A move out of Vegas will not help in that aspect.

Jep hits the nail on the head.

If we do it in DC, Northern VA the costs will go up for people. That area is one of the most expensive areas of the country. Having spent time there for training and doing ALPA stuff, I can not believe the prices.

Airfares in and out of DCA are pricey. IAD is a little better, but not as inexpensive as Vegas.

[ATN_Pilot]

I still think Vegas is the best bet. I love DC and there's a lot of great educational stuff there, but I honestly think the attendance would drop significantly if you move it out of Vegas.

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

That was not Paul Rice that came by after Capt Haynes. It was Paul of Xjet.

That's a big difference.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by Kristie

vegas the past couple of years has been more about play than learn and i'd kinda like to see it become more about learn than play.

the past few years, i've seen quite a few people play a bit too hard such that they miss all the learning activities and that's not what we're trying to accomplish...so maybe a move out of vegas will be good in order to change that aspect.

I'm all for having a vegas play weekend - minus the official activities.

Good point....and both JEP and Seggy make valid points as well.... but, for me, the clincher for me is stigma of holding the event in Vegas.

SteveC is probably just one of many who will not attend because the "Vegas Factor."

My wife and I were talking about the possibility of holding next years event in D.C. and her comment was golden:

"While Vegas may be fun, it kind of dumbs down the intent of Jetcareers. D.C. might give it a lot more credibility."

Don't get me wrong - if it's in Vegas again, we'll do our best to be there.

However, I agree with Kristie when she says that holding a "play" event in Vegas might be a better idea while having the "learning" event in another locale like D.C. might be a better idea.

Sure, folks who are going to over-do it will over-do it in D.C. But, from a professional point of view, I think we may do ourselves a great service by holding the event in a place like D.C.

As for the "trouble" of moving the event to D.C........ from what I've seen, Kristie and Doug go through this each year in trying to secure a venue in Vegas. It's always about transportation (are we close to the monorail?), conference space (suite or large conference room?), lodging (how close to the events will we stay and how much will it cost?).

It's the same thing/different location.

I'm going to do my part and volunteer to help out as much as I can to ease the pain on Doug and Kristie.

I see a move of the event to D.C. as move forward. We can still party and play, and D.C. would take the "Cheese Factor" out of the event.


Just MHO.

Stan

[Qgar]

While I enjoyed LAS, I wouldn't mind going to DC next year. Purely selfish reasons, though. A very short flight for me (I HATE those 5 hour ones!), I can jumpseat on Colgan and it won't cost me a dime, and I can re-visit some of the spots in DC I love the most. (Smithsonian and the monuments/memorials). Be warned, though, whereever NJC is held in 2009, I'll be there.

[FlyChicaga]

I'm all for having it in DC. Honestly, I'd really love to have a more educational and aviation-oriented main event during the year. We could always have our "party," and a evening out at a pub. I think it would be awesome to go to the Udvar-Hazy museum with the members here. Transportation and hotels would be the two main issues that we wouldn't have in Vegas. Plus, if we do go for an evening out, we'd likely have to have transportation. In Vegas, everyone can come and go as they please.

I like the idea of having it in Vegas, but having it off the strip. Not at a casino at all. I'd love to see the event in a meeting space at Embassy Suites or Courtyard Marriott, with a block of rooms set off for everyone. That way we separate ourselves from the "Vegas" aspect of Vegas, yet we still have all the "fun" at our fingertips for the times we are not doing our main events.

I hate to say it, but I also think we should make a dress code for the main event. Although I loved the rivalry between Jtrain and I this year, I think having the event be "business casual" would give it a sense of professionalism, as opposed to a large party. Have it be a cocktail hour of sorts, to mingle, etc. I'd especially love to find a pool deck, where we can purchase our own alcohol and food in bulk (like from Costco), although of course there are liability issues there.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

I'm all for having it in DC. Honestly, I'd really love to have a more educational and aviation-oriented main event during the year. We could always have our "party," and a evening out at a pub. I think it would be awesome to go to the Udvar-Hazy museum with the members here. Transportation and hotels would be the two main issues that we wouldn't have in Vegas. Plus, if we do go for an evening out, we'd likely have to have transportation. In Vegas, everyone can come and go as they please.

Well, not really.

For events like the Tracon tour, MGM's flight department, Red Rock Canyon, and Allegiance (pretty much the meat of our learning events), folks had to provide their own transportation.

In D.C. - Most of the events outside of Tower (if we can arrange it) and the Udvar-Hazy, would be accessible by the Metro.

On top of that, all the events like the Museums are FREE.

I like the idea of having it in Vegas, but having it off the strip. Not at a casino at all. I'd love to see the event in a meeting space at Embassy Suites or Courtyard Marriott, with a block of rooms set off for everyone. That way we separate ourselves from the "Vegas" aspect of Vegas, yet we still have all the "fun" at our fingertips for the times we are not doing our main events.

The only problem I have with continuing to go back to Vegas is that we've pretty much run the gammit of aviation-related tours:

1. Tracon/Tower tour - twice or more
2. MGM's Flight Department - twice
3. Allegiance Airlines tour - twice

Non-aviation-related things:
1. Red Rock Canyon - twice
2. Hoover Dam - once

Pretty soon, we are going to lose attendees because we've done everything there is to do outside of drink/gamble in Vegas.....wait... we've done that too.

D.C. offers so many untapped resources that it would be an amazing experience without the frivolity of Vegas.

Like I said, Vegas is fun, but I feel that D.C. has more relevance to offer and would lend more credibility to a NWJC event - rather than a bunch of drunk pilots chasing skirts in Vegas.

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

I'd especially love to find a pool deck, where we can purchase our own alcohol and food in bulk (like from Costco), although of course there are liability issues there.

I think that no matter what NO ONE should provide alcohol for any of the main parties. Waaaaaaaaay to many liability issues. Have a bartender at a hotel, they are the ones with the liability and insurance policy then.

I am neutral where it is. I will be there no matter what.

Here is the deal with DC. It is going to need to be much more planned out and people will need to keep up appointments and be on time for them. There won't be opportunities for impromptu events and if people are going to be transporting people to other places, people will need to show up on time or we will need to keep the group waiting.

Also forget having it Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. Hotels will be outrageous as Monday and Tuesday is when the DC power people are mostly in town doing work.

We would need to do it Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.

Kristie, check with the Capital Hilton

http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/hi/hote...FN1YCSGBIYM22Q

That hotel is mostly a business hotel so they are busy during the week. I was able to get a room there for $80.00 for a Friday night back in May.

Also an idea to say would be the Embassy Suites. Probably put four in a room AND it includes a FREE breakfast and Manager's Reception.

http://embassysuites1.hilton.com/en_...FN1YCSGBIYM22Q


The idea of having a 'fun' event and a 'more serious' type of event is great. However with financial responsibility, vacation times, and other issues, unfortunately Jetcareers I think can really only do one big event a year.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by Seggy

Jep hits the nail on the head.

If we do it in DC, Northern VA the costs will go up for people. That area is one of the most expensive areas of the country. Having spent time there for training and doing ALPA stuff, I can not believe the prices.

We're not going to live there.

That said, I disagree that the costs will go up.

Folks will spend less money on alcohol and gambling.....strippers (if that's been done), etc.

Most of the attractions in D.C. are Free and easily accessible from the Metro (which is cheap).

Hotel costs will be about the only thing that might change, but it should be balanced out by not spending money on the other frivolous things that Vegas has to offer.

Food in D.C. is about the same as in Vegas. Alcohol in D.C. is considerabley cheaper than in Vegas.

Airfares in and out of DCA are pricey. IAD is a little better, but not as inexpensive as Vegas.

Not if you non-rev or buy in advance if you cannot non-rev.

Aside from that, more than one airline will be cutting flights to Vegas, thus drivng the costs up and the number of seats available down.

Just my thoughts.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by Seggy

I think that no matter what NO ONE should provide alcohol for any of the main parties. Waaaaaaaaay to many liability issues. Have a bartender at a hotel, they are the ones with the liability and insurance policy then.

Agreed.

Here is the deal with DC. It is going to need to be much more planned out and people will need to keep up appointments and be on time for them. There won't be opportunities for impromptu events and if people are going to be transporting people to other places, people will need to show up on time or we will need to keep the group waiting.

Disagree.

Outside of the Tower tour (if we can arrange it) and a trip to the Udvar-Hazy, the majority of the sights in D.C. are not only on a non-scheduled basis, they are also free.

We could have all of our meetings at whatever hotel we stay in. I've spoken with the Smithsonian Air & Space Museums Special Events Coordinator today and they have no conferenece rooms. The Udvar-Hazy does, but their Events Coordinators are out of the office today. I left a message for them.

Also forget having it Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. Hotels will be outrageous as Monday and Tuesday is when the DC power people are mostly in town doing work.

We would need to do it Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.

Agreed.

The idea of having a 'fun' event and a 'more serious' type of event is great. However with financial responsibility, vacation times, and other issues, unfortunately Jetcareers I think can really only do one big event a year.

Agreed.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

.....Like I said, Vegas is fun, but I feel that D.C. has more relevance to offer and would lend more credibility to a NWJC event - rather than a bunch of drunk pilots chasing skirts in Vegas.

I can see what Stan is trying to convey, but I would have to disagree to the 'lend more credibility' factor.

What do people think when they see these names?

American College Of Osteopathic Emergency Physicians (ACOEP) –

Academy of Doctors of audiology - 2008 ADA Convention

International Brotherhood Of Electrical Workers (AFL-CIO-CLC) - 2008 IBEW Nuclear Conference

American College of Emergency Physicians - 2009 Essential Reimbursement Strategies/Effective Procedure Coding

Stanford University - 10th Annual Stanford Radiology Advances in Breast Imaging & Interventions

Do you think they would receive more credibility if they held their conventions elsewhere? I would doubt that seriously. There are plenty of things that might lend more credibility to an event other than location.

There are plenty of 'credible' meetings/conventions in LAS over the next year and the ones above are just a few. The complete list is located: Here....

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by JEP

I can see what Stan is trying to convey, but I would have to disagree to the 'lend more credibility' factor.

What do people think when they see these names?



Do you think they would receive more credibility if they held their conventions elsewhere? I would doubt that seriously. There are plenty of things that might lend more credibility to an event other than location.

There are plenty of 'credible' meetings/conventions in LAS over the next year and the ones above are just a few. The complete list is located: Here....

Jim, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that the Vegas NWJC event lacks ALL credibility, just that having the event elsewher might lend more credibility.

All those you listed are very prestigious institutions - no doubt, but as a whole - unlike pilots, they do not have a reputation for drunkeness and skirt chasing....which is exactly the image Vegas portrays.

The two comments I listed earlier in this thread were just two of the comments that were made by folks whom I spoke to regarding our events in Vegas.

That's not the image I see Jetcareers having is all I'm saying.

I'm not slamming Vegas as a hell-hole, just that it's got it's image AND we've pretty much run the gammit of aviation-related themes there.

That's all I'm saying. I apologize if I came off differently.

[BobDDuck]

Just throwing it out there... DC can be REALLY cold by the second week of October. I know in years past it's been cold in Vegas too, but at least you have a chance of having nice weather.

For me, it's all about the same. I don't drink or gamble so that aspect of Vegas is pretty much a non event for me. That said, many people do and a night out in a Alexandria pub is not the same thing as crawling the Strip.

I think NJC has reached a fork and we need to decide which way to go with it. When NJC started it was mostly a way for people to meet other people from the forum in person. The best venue to do that was a place you could go out and have fun with others. To keep it on track thre were some aviation theamed things involved. Vegas fit that need. Now, as we've moved forward, each year as slid into a more and more "professional" conference environment. We started with the mock interviews and then added the round table. This year the round table was more focused (sort of) and we added a professional speaker.

If we are going to move this event to a completly professional conference type thing, then DC works great. There are TONS of things to do outside the conference portion. But moving down that fork pretty much moves away from the origional NJC idea. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

My .02 anyways.

[Seggy]

After what BobDDuck said, I am going to go with Vegas.

He is right when he said that NJC is a way for people to meet other people in this industry. In this industry it is ALL about networking and who you know.

Vegas allowed us to focus the attention of professionalism AND allowed us to successfully network and help people get jobs.

Keep it in Vegas.

My .02 cents

[JEP]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

Jim, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that the Vegas NWJC event lacks ALL credibility, just that having the event elsewher might lend more credibility.

All those you listed are very prestigious institutions - no doubt, but as a whole - unlike pilots, they do not have a reputation for drunkeness and skirt chasing....which is exactly the image Vegas portrays.

The two comments I listed earlier in this thread were just two of the comments that were made by folks whom I spoke to regarding our events in Vegas.

That's not the image I see Jetcareers having is all I'm saying.

I'm not slamming Vegas as a hell-hole, just that it's got it's image AND we've pretty much run the gammit of aviation-related themes there.

That's all I'm saying. I apologize if I came off differently.

No Worries, I know exactly what you are saying. I am just playing a little bit of devil's advocate.

As I was typing my response to you I found myself thinking.....'What NJC is (at least to me) has little to do with the location of an event it is all about THE PEOPLE involved. That being said, the location really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I may never make aviation a career, but my interest in aviation and NJC has made some connections that I hope to carry with me for a long time to come. I have no doubt that should I find myself in another part of the country I could look up one of my 'NJC' buds (You too Qgar and gals) and make some plans. For me, THAT is what NJC is all about....THE PEOPLE.

[Qgar]

Anytime, paisan, anytime!!!

[ready2fly]

I think the focus is getting side-tracked here. What I'm reading is that folks don't think that they can still party and have a good time in the D.C. area.

That's not the case.

If this site is about the people, then the location doesn't matter.

Vegas is fun. It's also getting stale. We've done what there is to do in Vegas.

What I'm supporting by offering D.C. as an option is a change of scenery with TONS of new things to do at a very low cost (i.e. most are free).

No, a night out in Alexandria isn't Vegas. The bars will be closer together, cheaper, and just as crowded.

Yes, I do think NWJC has reached a fork, but it has nothing to do with substance (are we just going to have fun or are we professionals?), it has everything to do with moving forward. IMHO, staying in Vegas, we get stale. Same ol same ol each year.

By moving to a new location with more to offer, we move forward. We still keep the same events.. I'm sure there's an Irish Pub in D.C. where we can all meet , but we open the door to more people whom otherwise won't attend the event because it's in Vegas - and to more activites that all would enjoy (aviation museums).

I have noticed that the majority (not all of course) of those supporting staying in Vegas are young, male and single.

If it moves to D.C. - cool. Let me know and I'll help coordinate. If it stays in Vegas - cool, let me know and I'll help coordinate.

But, my vote is for D.C. for all the reasons I've posted before.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by JEP

I can see what Stan is trying to convey, but I would have to disagree to the 'lend more credibility' factor.

What do people think when they see these names?



Do you think they would receive more credibility if they held their conventions elsewhere? I would doubt that seriously. There are plenty of things that might lend more credibility to an event other than location.

There are plenty of 'credible' meetings/conventions in LAS over the next year and the ones above are just a few. The complete list is located: Here....

remember that most conventions are moved from city to city every year....not many have their conventions in the same location year after year.

My planning convention was in LAS this past year but next year, they'll be in MSP.

[TheShortOne]

I've been to a couple of confrences in Miami that were fun...

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Kristie

remember that most conventions are moved from city to city every year....not many have their conventions in the same location year after year.

My planning convention was in LAS this past year but next year, they'll be in MSP.

True, but you could run the list again next year and see similar 'types' of groups I have no doubt.

I don't know, I guess it's just a circle for me.

1. NJC' is all about THE PEOPLE.
2. People like Vegas, It's a blast.
3. Vegas, understandably (to some) may lead to a 'less than' credible view
4. Those who over-indulge {take away from the credibility} will do so, no matter the location. But......
5. Who are we (members of JC) trying to impress or provide credibility to? The other members of JC, I would venture to say.
6. Which brings it back to Number 1 above.

So I guess in my voting for Vegas, I shot my own theory in the foot.

Hopefully that made sense to some. It made sense in the vast space between my ears, but it sometimes gets lost in route to the keyboard.

If you and Doogie make it to MSP, give me a holler.

[H46Bubba]

Stan is the man with a plan! I'm with Stan on this one. I wouldn't say that Vegas has lost it's NJC charm, but NJC needs a change of venue once and awhile since it will hopefully be a yearly JC ritual for a long time to come. Obviously Doug and Kristie have felt the urge that it might be a good changeup that NJC be held somewhere other than Vegas next year. As far as JC event's, if you ask Doug, I'll try to make it no matter what or how many connections I have to make to get there! So if they want have NJC in D.C. or back in Vegas as usual, I'm there and will help with planning as much as posssible.
I think holding NJC in D.C. next year will allow more members the opportunity to attend due to the number of members on the east coast. I mean D.C. is a quick flight anywhere on the east coast, easy to nonrev to with three airports (IAD, DCA, and BWI) or within decent driving distance/time.

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by Seggy

After what BobDDuck said, I am going to go with Vegas.

He is right when he said that NJC is a way for people to meet other people in this industry. In this industry it is ALL about networking and who you know.

Vegas allowed us to focus the attention of professionalism AND allowed us to successfully network and help people get jobs.

Keep it in Vegas.

My .02 cents

I'm not sure that I would be very interested in attending in DC. DC feels like work to me. Vegas is relaxing and fun. I don't feel inclined to bid a week of vacation to spend in DC.

[Bumblebee]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I'm not sure that I would be very interested in attending in DC. DC feels like work to me. Vegas is relaxing and fun. I don't feel inclined to bid a week of vacation to spend in DC.

It really doesn't matter where these people are . . . we could be in the worst overnight city you ever experienced, and I would show up. For real, it is about the company

[mpenguin1]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I'm not sure that I would be very interested in attending in DC. DC feels like work to me. Vegas is relaxing and fun. I don't feel inclined to bid a week of vacation to spend in DC.

Yeah, I am inclined to agree with ya, Vegas is made for large groups of people and not sure how excited I would be to plan days off for a trip to Washington DC.

Yet, saying that, I do see Kristie's dilemma that Vegas could start to get a little stale, and of course, I agree with Bumblebee that J/C is fun because of the people.

If alternate place is on the planning table, a place that is big group/party friendly and still gives potential for learning-type seminars.

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

I don't know about the FAA building, but the ALPA buildings in both downtown and Herndon are just offices. Not much to see. You'd be better off just trying to secure an appearance from Prater or Paul Rice. Bill Couette (VP Admin) would be a great choice, too. I kept trying to get a commitment from someone for this year's NJC (and I think Dough was trying, too), but I was never able to get anyone. The fact that the ALPA BOD meeting was taking place on the same week probably killed it. BOD week is very busy. But there's no BOD meeting in '09, so maybe you could have better luck.

I was very impressed w/ his opening speech at the BOD meeting! Among others, he'd certainly be a great choice for an (in)formal chat w/ our group.